Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello. I need to wangle my bright yellow Tau army into something resembling a decent, competitive tournament list. I don't do competitive very often, so I need HELP! Oh, and I'm flying across an ocean so space is limited, hence my first attempt as a more gunliney army...

Version 1 - Gunline FW Tau with Razorsharks


Version 2 - included some Kroot and a Mark'O



Version 3 - Space wolf allies, anyone??



Version 4 - Suit heavy, mostly based on Teschio's ideas with a few variations based on availability/desire to separate markers/not having the right models...!


Version 5 - the current planned list for NOVA

* Commander (2 Missile Pods, Drone Controller, PEN, Target Lock) with 2 Marker Drones [167]
* Ethereal [50]

* 1 Crisis Bodyguard (TL Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blaster, Neuroweb System Jammer) [69]
* 2 Crisis Suits (1 with TL Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blaster) (1 with 2 Fusion Blasters, Target Lock) [124]
* 3 Crisis Suits (TL Plasma Rifles) with 4 Shield Drones [164]
* 3 Crisis Suits (2 with 2 Missile Pods, Target Lock) (1 Shas'vre with CCN & MSSS) with 4 Marker Drones [229]

* 12 Fire Warriors (Pulse Rifles) [108]
* 12 Fire Warriors (Pulse Rifles) [108]
* 10 Kroot with 1 Kroot Hound [65]
* 10 Kroot with 1 Kroot Hound [65]

* 4 Pathfinders (EMP Grenades) [52]

* Sky Ray (Disruption Pod, Blacksun Filter, SMS) [131]
* Sky Ray (Disruption Pod, Blacksun Filter, SMS) [131]
* 3 Broadside Suits (TL HYMP, SMS, EWO) with 6 Missile Drones [282]

* Aegis Defense Line, Comms Relay [70]

Total - 1850

I took a version of this list to the York Summer Solstice and noticed a few things

- the Skyrays rarely performed that well and never used the BSF, but then it was quite a low-flyer tournament
- I took Broadsides with HRR since I hadn't converted the HYMP yet, and the AP1 came in really useful a couple of times, though they weren't very good at intercepting!
- Kroot were good
- Pathfinders were useful, but the EMP Grenades were never used.
- I consistently forgot about the Neuroweb System Jammer



Version 5.1 - based on a suggestion from Panic about using Farsight Allies to get one more HS slot. Not sure if it's better or worse??

* Commander (2 Missile Pods, Drone Controller, PEN, Target Lock) with 1 Marker Drone [155]

* 1 Crisis Suit (TL Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blaster) [57]
* 3 Crisis Suits (2 with 2 Missile Pods, Target Lock) (1 Shas'vre with CCN & MSSS) with 4 Marker Drones [229]

* 12 Fire Warriors (Pulse Rifles) [108]
* 12 Fire Warriors (Pulse Rifles) [108]

* 4 Pathfinders [44]

* Sky Ray (Disruption Pod, SMS) [130]
* 3 Broadside Suits (TL High Yield Missile Pods, SMS, EWO) with 6 Missile Drones [282]
* 2 Broadside Suits (TL Heavy Rail Rifle, Plasma Rifles) with 2 Shield Drones [164]

* Allies - Ethereal [50]
* Allies - 2 Crisis Suits, Bonded (1 with TL Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blaster) (1 with 2 Fusion Blasters, Target Lock) [116]
* Allies - 3 Crisis Suits, Bonded (TL Plasma Rifles) with 4 Shield Drones [207]
* Allies - Sky Ray (Disruption Pod, SMS) [130]

* Aegis Defense Line, Comms Relay [70]

Total - 1850

This loses me the Kroot but gives me two scoring Crisis Teams, and all my normal HS plus an additional squad of 2 Railsides. Worth it? Those Crisis Teams were never really intended to survive until the end of the game, but a last turn jetpack move might be better than outflanking Kroot? Is the Comms Relay worth it now?

Hey,

Looks like an interesting list but here is my 2 cents:

1) Vespids really arent worth the points, change them out for path finders. They are much more valuable and add more to support the army with their markerlights.

2) I would personally drop the fireblade as at this point limit he doesnt add much. The ethereal can basically cover all your troops. I would try and find the points to put in a battlesuit commander then add him to the one of the 2 groups of crisis suits.

3) From what i have read the razorsharks arent worth it. Your broadsides can cover the AA that is need unless your meta is extremely flyer heavy. Maybe swap these out for more pathfinders to buff up the crisis or FW. Or use these points for a more potent commander.

Anyways just my 2 cents. Best bet is just play test it if you already own the models.

Anyways GLHF,

Yal

Yalankelo wrote:


1) Vespids really arent worth the points, change them out for path finders. They are much more valuable and add more to support the army with their markerlights.

2) I would personally drop the fireblade as at this point limit he doesnt add much. The ethereal can basically cover all your troops. I would try and find the points to put in a battlesuit commander then add him to the one of the 2 groups of crisis suits.

3) From what i have read the razorsharks arent worth it. Your broadsides can cover the AA that is need unless your meta is extremely flyer heavy. Maybe swap these out for more pathfinders to buff up the crisis or FW. Or use these points for a more potent commander.

Anyways just my 2 cents. Best bet is just play test it if you already own the models.

Thanks for the comments.

It's NOVA Open, so I'm expecting it to be pretty flyer heavy - I guess I could buff the Broadsides more with Velocity Trackers, but it's a lot of points. Maybe an Aegis?

The Vespid were mainly included because of the low amount of AP3 weapons - I don't play against a lot of Marines at home, but I'm imagining a lot at a tournament. I guess they could be swapped for pathfinders or more crisis suits?

Point taken about the fireblade - with an Ethereal, one extra shot from the Fireblade doesn't really seem that good...

Hey,

To be honest against a marine army i dont think a few vespids will change the tide to much. I think the pathfinders will do you more favours. Remove the cover, increase BS so hitting more shots. The volume of shots will overwhelm them especially with the ethereal.

I have never really tested the flyers so dont have much to comment on them except with what others have said. I think leaving the broadsides with incterceptor and your flyers to deal with other flyers should be plenty.

As far as the ADL goes this makes you extremely static and more of a gun line. The choice of ADL depends greatly on how you intend to play the army. Stand and gun them down until the all fall over. Or try and advance to them. You may have some success with a marching army due to the FNP from the ethereal but them you dont get the extra shot. Its all about compromising.

Hope it goes well GLHF

Yal


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey,

To be honest against a marine army i dont think a few vespids will change the tide to much. I think the pathfinders will do you more favours. Remove the cover, increase BS so hitting more shots. The volume of shots will overwhelm them especially with the ethereal.

I have never really tested the flyers so dont have much to comment on them except with what others have said. I think leaving the broadsides with incterceptor and your flyers to deal with other flyers should be plenty.

As far as the ADL goes this makes you extremely static and more of a gun line. The choice of ADL depends greatly on how you intend to play the army. Stand and gun them down until the all fall over. Or try and advance to them. You may have some success with a marching army due to the FNP from the ethereal but them you dont get the extra shot. Its all about compromising.

Hope it goes well GLHF

Yal


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey,

To be honest against a marine army i dont think a few vespids will change the tide to much. I think the pathfinders will do you more favours. Remove the cover, increase BS so hitting more shots. The volume of shots will overwhelm them especially with the ethereal.

I have never really tested the flyers so dont have much to comment on them except with what others have said. I think leaving the broadsides with incterceptor and your flyers to deal with other flyers should be plenty.

As far as the ADL goes this makes you extremely static and more of a gun line. The choice of ADL depends greatly on how you intend to play the army. Stand and gun them down until the all fall over. Or try and advance to them. You may have some success with a marching army due to the FNP from the ethereal but them you dont get the extra shot. Its all about compromising.

Hope it goes well GLHF

Yal

With out a riptide your missing a survivable elites killer. I use this unit alongside my riptide.

3 suits all with TL plasma rifles and shield generators.
one shas'vre with multi-specrum suite.

this give an expesive (almost as much as decked out riptide) but fairly surviveable elite hunter unit capeable of opperating completely with out markerlights, add farsight for an elite killer deepstriking where you need them

Arbitorian,

Hey I am a big fan of your battle reports, so thanks for sharing...also glad to hear you are jumping the ocean for the NOVA open...I go to several events a year and it is by far my favorite...try to get into the narrative event as it is a true blast on the best terrain on the planet!!...Now onto your list...

I think it is less about what specific units you have in your list as to if they can reliably complete the missions that will be present at the NOVA...for this you need to read through the primers that Mike B. and company have put on their website's...Most of the missions will be objective based, based on book missions...in other words 5/6 of the missions will have objectives featured primarily, and most others secondary...most of the time they will be spaced around the board in a set manner...all this info can be found on the website...With that being said.......

I am not sure what units in your list have the staying power or speed to garner an objective outside of your deployment zone...the fire warriors on foot will not cut it unless you have completely blown the opponent out of the water on turns one and two...the same applies to securing table quarters as you will notice that is oftentimes the secondary and sometimes the primary objective in many NOVA missions...Units that can infiltrate, outflank, scout, or have transports are critical for this IMO...So I will let you build your own list but I think you are missing several key components on a successful build for the NOVA...my initial thought would be some kroot and maybe a squad of firewarriors in a warfish...also make sure you have enough markerlights for the skyray...one good strategy for them is to load the broadsides with missles also and concentrate on one specific unit with markerlights and then let it rain with about 8 missles on them...anyway read through the missions and think about how you are going to achieve victory with your current list...PM me if you like as this is my 3rd NOVA and have a feel for armies that will and will not work...good luck and hope to see you there...

Widowsbane wrote:I am not sure what units in your list have the staying power or speed to garner an objective outside of your deployment zone....

So, third version above. You made some good points. I've now reduced the size of the carbine warriors, mounted them in a Warfsh, and increased the size of the Kroot squad. I've also tried including a sample allies contingent - a Wolf priest with bodyguard, thought I could do the same with a Farseer I suppose. However, adding all this has meant I removed both Razorsharks, so the list is a lot less powerful against flyers... :/

Commander_Nightflier wrote:With out a riptide your missing a survivable elites killer.

Would the plasma/fusion squad not fulfil this role? I know they're not as tooled up as three shield generators, but two shield drones are a cheaper way to get the invulnerables. Would you recommend swapping to the TL plasma instead of using a plasma/fusion combination? I worry about tank-hunting capability...

Tau can be very competive without Riptides (i personally think they are overrated....). You list, though, has some VERY weak units (vespids, razorsharks, HRR broadsides), some not-so-great units (sniper drones), and bad settings for Crisis suits... Sorry to be blunt, but this doesn't seem competitive at all. My advice is: ditch this completely, start with an idea about how you want your list to work, and then build it accordingly. I won't give any more advice because it will mean i will totally rewrite your list, so i will wait for an updated version to go into details.

EDIT: i just saw the updated version... i really don't understand why you took SW allies, they cost a lot and don't add much to the list. Crisis still have bad settings, you don't need shaper or 'uis, you need only 1 kroot hound, and the devilfish is trash, simply put. Broadsides have no reason to exist with HRR, HYMPs are just WAY stronger. And they need maxed missile drones. I would swap the Hammerhead (extremely overrated model, imho) for another Skyray (skyrays need BSF too), remove useless stuff and add an ADL, with comms relay if you can. And i would DEFINITELY change the settings of the Crisis, to give them the anti-tank you need. Plus, you can use the Commander with them, and remove the need for marker drones as a separate unit. In the end, it will be something like this:

Commander, dual MP, target lock, drone controller, PENchip, 2 marker drones 167
Ethereal 50
Crisis Bodyguard, FB + TL-FB, neurojammer 69

12 FWs 108
12 FWs 108
12 FWs 108
10 kroots + hound 65

Crisis team 243
crisis with dual MP, target lock
crisis with dual MP, target lock
crisis with C&CN, MSSS
6 marker drones

Crisis team 204
crisis with dual PR
crisis with dual PR
crisis with dual PR
4 shield drones

Crisis team 114
crisis with FB + TL-FB
crisis with dual FB, Target Lock

Broadside team, 3x (HYMPs broadsides, EWO), 6x missile drones 282
Skyray, BSF, Dpod 131
Skyray, BSF, Dpod 131

ADL, comms relay 70

TOT: 1850

The comms relay will ensure your anti-tanks (the single Bodyguard and the 2 FB Crisis) will arrive on turn 2, and it will be useful to keep kroots OUT (they will start in Reserve, and you will reroll successfull Reserve rolls to keep them out as long as possible: they are useful to conquer distant objectives after the rest of your army cleared the way). The PR crisis are for heavily armored targets. The Commander joins the MP suits, and that unit provides a great ML source as well. The Skyrays are for AA, and so are the Broadsides (well, missilesides are good versus almost anything...). The FWs will be deployed close to each other (and to the Broadsides), so they are in the Ethereal's bubble and they will cover each other with Supporting Fire. The Skyrays, if you don't use a skimmer base but deploy them on their landing gear, get cover from the ADL as well (3+ cover save).
The list is very gunlinish with a few extra things (like deep-striking, FB suits for AV13/14 tanks), and all in all is a pretty solid list. Even without Riptides

Teschio wrote:
EDIT: i just saw the updated version... i really don't understand why you took SW allies, they cost a lot and don't add much to the list. Crisis still have bad settings, you don't need shaper or 'uis, you need only 1 kroot hound, and the devilfish is trash, simply put. Broadsides have no reason to exist with HRR, HYMPs are just WAY stronger. And they need maxed missile drones. I would swap the Hammerhead (extremely overrated model, imho) for another Skyray (skyrays need BSF too), remove useless stuff and add an ADL, with comms relay if you can. And i would DEFINITELY change the settings of the Crisis, to give them the anti-tank you need. Plus, you can use the Commander with them, and remove the need for marker drones as a separate unit. In the end, it will be something like this:

Thanks for this. Great choices - what you're basically showing there (and it's a MUCH better list, you're right) is to specialise the units much more. To your Crisis suits are maxed out for one job and maxed out for survivability. I had never thought of using an individual Bodyguard without attaching him to the commander.

Surely it would make more sense to attach the Commander's two gun drones to the Bodyguard? That commander/MP unit is putting out 8 markerlight hits on a 2+, which I find to be overkill a lot of the time - you just end up with unused lights. Having a second source might be more useful?

Do you not worry about the lack of weaponry above S7? The Skyrays being what they are, they're probably going to be engaged in anti-air for a lot of the game.

You can't attach a Commander's drones to another unit without joining to it the Commander as well, and the crisis will deep-strike while the commander will deploy (except vs a Farsight Enclave, probably)... sure, 8 drones are overkill (it's a rerollable 2+ to hit ), but since MLs are very important for Tau, a smart enemy will target them. 8 drones ensures you that you will still be effective if you lose a few. Plus, they are a decent AA as well (you are guaranteed a couple of hits on a rerollable 6, this means your Broadsides or PR suits will fire with BS3). Adding another ML source would be fine, it there was a decent source... FWs 'uis are just too expensive for what they do, pathfinders are dead meat, and marker drones alone are inaccurate. You other ML source, if you don't need tons of AA, will be the dual-skyray. Expecially since vs most lists, you will shoot 12 missiles on turn 1 (using the MLs to boost its BS, not to fire individual seekers. This is why they need BSF). Skyrays can be a threat to flyers even without seekers, once you ML a flyer, missile pods (twin-linked, either from Broadsides or MP crisis) are more than enough to bring it down (expecially MPs with Tank Hunter). Will an enemy fire on a vehicle that has 3+ cover save, AV13, AND it has no offensive weapons? I doubt it, considering how much damage everything else can do.

Teschio wrote:
You can't attach a Commander's drones to another unit without joining to it the Commander as well, and the crisis will deep-strike while the commander will deploy (except vs a Farsight Enclave, probably)... sure, 8 drones are overkill (it's a rerollable 2+ to hit ), but since MLs are very important for Tau, a smart enemy will target them. 8 drones ensures you that you will still be effective if you lose a few. Plus, they are a decent AA as well (you are guaranteed a couple of hits on a rerollable 6, this means your Broadsides or PR suits will fire with BS3). Adding another ML source would be fine, it there was a decent source... FWs 'uis are just too expensive for what they do, pathfinders are dead meat, and marker drones alone are inaccurate. You other ML source, if you don't need tons of AA, will be the dual-skyray. Expecially since vs most lists, you will shoot 12 missiles on turn 1 (using the MLs to boost its BS, not to fire individual seekers. This is why they need BSF). Skyrays can be a threat to flyers even without seekers, once you ML a flyer, missile pods (twin-linked, either from Broadsides or MP crisis) are more than enough to bring it down (expecially MPs with Tank Hunter). Will an enemy fire on a vehicle that has 3+ cover save, AV13, AND it has no offensive weapons? I doubt it, considering how much damage everything else can do.

I meant give two marker drones to the Bodyguard, so that you split the drone pool.

But all good points. I might do some tests with a list like that, modified to fit what I own, but you've already managed to come up with something very close to my collection!!

The only worry, as pointed out by Yalenko and Widowsbane, is that the ADL makes them very static in a very objective-heavy tournament. But then, this sort of list has a much greater chance of blowing all the big threats up on turn one/two, leaving me the rest of the game to get out from behind the ADL and advance.

I also can't believe there's nothing in the Tau codex that allows you to manipulate Reserves - seems like it would have been a very fluffy thing to include...

Drones to the bodyguard are a waste. They will be BS2, and those 2 extra wounds won't do much to protect it (actually, they will make it test Morale...). Better to keep it as a one-shot unit, 69 points to melt a tank is totally worth it, and the enemy must still use something to bring it down, thus reducing the amount of fire the rest of the army will take. Same goes for the FB suits unit.

Don't worry about ADL and being too static, with your firepower you will melt most armies in a few turns, and have all the time in the world to grab objectives... plus, you don't really need to grab the ones far from you: once you make sure the enemy can't conquer them (because you destroyed his units), you can hold on to yours and be fine.

Couple of random thoughts; Do you want to make efficient use of your slots? What list are you leaning towards?

Been toying with this ArbitorIan close to 1850:



Tactics are basic:
5 x 12 Kroot can outflank/hold backfield objs. They arent hardy but they are numerous and with basic shots + sniper rounds become flexible. Forest heavy maps and they excel with GTG.
They wont ever do heavy damage but they will be hard to shift and can contest multi objs which in 6th is key. Im toying with going with 4 X 15 units rather than 5 x 10.
Included the shaper even though hes 21 pts for LD tests and the Rider for 5 X Str 7x 4 shots. Weight of firepower idea.

Next up is Shadowsun + the XV8s. They are supposed to synergise with the Rip that has the HBC. The idea is to either JSJ or simply move forward 6" every turn pressuring/scaring your opponent. Remember RTs are dam hard to kill (attach a few droens and even more so).
They are your 18-36" range killers. Heavy on str7 and short range str8 but with the ability to JSJ or manouver.
There are no FWs in the list. Str 5 is nice with RF or double tap but this list is about either long range FP or manouverability at high str.

Next are the two RTS.
#1 with the HBC is going to go with Shadowsun and stay at mid range ploughing str6 into whatever is feasible. Attach an EOS VS flyers (loads of shots!), a shield drone for survivability (with Shadows unit) and a pod for more mid str armor pop and hes hard to take out.

#2 is supposed to synch with your Broadsides. EoS is obvious, as is the shield drone. But he cna also sit back and pound away with 72" range and the IA (Termi killer in any mode).

Next we have the 3 XV88s. Gone with the long range HRR for obvious reasons, these are your, stay back and take LA/MW out guys.
Attach a ML because we're light on them and 3X seekers for the extra str8/anti flyer ability. SMS vs plasma - tricky call but hope no one gets close enough to have to call on plasma, whereas SMS hs th3e 30" mid range kill zone and ignores cover (IG, Orks?)

Finally 2 X Skyrays.
Pretty self explanatory. DP because we want them in cover all the time so +1 is great and SMS for that 30-36" kill zone.



Thats it I think. Havent been able to run this list much due to work/real life stuffz!
Let me know if you like it or any criteuqes you have.
IIt was supposed to balance; long range fire with mid range and a healthy amount of scoring. Added to that it has some serious str7 spam and decent flexibility.

I think personally it would suffer VS flyer spam lists (who dosent?! ), 2+ saves (Deathwing spam) and really dedicated HTH armies.

Anyways, GL!

Yalankelo wrote:
Hey,

To be honest against a marine army i dont think a few vespids will change the tide to much. I think the pathfinders will do you more favours. Remove the cover, increase BS so hitting more shots. The volume of shots will overwhelm them especially with the ethereal.

I have never really tested the flyers so dont have much to comment on them except with what others have said. I think leaving the broadsides with incterceptor and your flyers to deal with other flyers should be plenty.

As far as the ADL goes this makes you extremely static and more of a gun line. The choice of ADL depends greatly on how you intend to play the army. Stand and gun them down until the all fall over. Or try and advance to them. You may have some success with a marching army due to the FNP from the ethereal but them you dont get the extra shot. Its all about compromising.

Hope it goes well GLHF

Yal


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey,

To be honest against a marine army i dont think a few vespids will change the tide to much. I think the pathfinders will do you more favours. Remove the cover, increase BS so hitting more shots. The volume of shots will overwhelm them especially with the ethereal.

I have never really tested the flyers so dont have much to comment on them except with what others have said. I think leaving the broadsides with incterceptor and your flyers to deal with other flyers should be plenty.

As far as the ADL goes this makes you extremely static and more of a gun line. The choice of ADL depends greatly on how you intend to play the army. Stand and gun them down until the all fall over. Or try and advance to them. You may have some success with a marching army due to the FNP from the ethereal but them you dont get the extra shot. Its all about compromising.

Hope it goes well GLHF

Yal


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey,

To be honest against a marine army i dont think a few vespids will change the tide to much. I think the pathfinders will do you more favours. Remove the cover, increase BS so hitting more shots. The volume of shots will overwhelm them especially with the ethereal.

I have never really tested the flyers so dont have much to comment on them except with what others have said. I think leaving the broadsides with incterceptor and your flyers to deal with other flyers should be plenty.

As far as the ADL goes this makes you extremely static and more of a gun line. The choice of ADL depends greatly on how you intend to play the army. Stand and gun them down until the all fall over. Or try and advance to them. You may have some success with a marching army due to the FNP from the ethereal but them you dont get the extra shot. Its all about compromising.

Hope it goes well GLHF

Yal

Well, if one is good, then two is better, and three must be the best!

1) Riptides are hard to kill unless
a) You field them with HBC. The weapon is much more reliant to nova charge to be effective. Otherwise your saturating shooting your basic infantry can do.
b) you field them with drones. Running off the board/being swept due to loosing drones (not fearless!) is superlame
c) You don't field them, as the OP stated...

Multiple kroot, can't complain. I personally think the firewarrior firebase, even a single squad, is superb. Stick a fireblade in and just wow.

Finally, as I mentioned above, if you want to field points efficiently, I have a few pointers.

Pathfinders with EMP grenades. Look at these guys as you would fusion guns on feet, waving rocks. 6" move, 2d6" charge, is a fair engagement range compared to melta weapons. They are also very effecient ways to field markerlights.

If you want to marker drones (for more ML's, that are durable and mobile. Mobility being the key), I don't think the Mark'O is worth it. Whilst you get BS5, your investing 93pts+ on drones. You don't need that many drones to be effective (average 3 hits per shooting unit is good), 3 ML hits = no cover & +1BS. Or +3BS. Or 3 seekers from fast-moving skyray. Etc.

A good way to field markerlight drones is, a mass blob of ML drones (so field about 9).Works best if you have lots of MSU ML but I'd still prefer pathfinders with their guns & grenades. A better way is to field a Drone Hit Squad™. 6 drones with 3 XV8 suits. 5 guns, 3 target locks and a drone controller. Perfect, effecient, flexible combination. Personally I like fusion guns.

TLDR (sorry!). HBC is bad (Nova is deadly), kroot good, firewarriors pew, fireblade pew pew, EMP scary-face, pathfinders efficient-face, Mark'O..ver rated, Drone Hit Squad™ = win.

Food for thought, Ian - if there are some choices you really like that are better painted / presented / you're more personally comfortable with what they can and can't do in a game, there's reason to consider those.

The NOVA's bracketing system helps guarantee players who go around 2-2 during the seed rounds a legitimate shot at Best Overall or a very high finish in that category if you can play well within your bracket of peers (3-1 or 4-0 over the last 4).

So, while taking a good competitive TAC to NOVA is certainly not a bad idea, I wouldn't OVERLY stress about it; just make sure you don't have too much fat in your list (needless upgrades, excessive elites/heavy/fast investment at cost of scoring units, yada yada).

More direct to the list / point, you'll most want to consider a need for (as with any 6ed situation) linebreaker / enemy-backfield-contest critters. One kroot squad may not quite cut it; Stealth suits could, additional kroot could, etc. You can't blunt your way over there late game with a T6 W5 2+/5++ MC that can jump 4d6 on the last turn if you aren't taking Riptides (their best contribution to a Tau list), so you'll want a sneakier way to go about it.

MVBrandt wrote:
Food for thought, Ian - if there are some choices you really like that are better painted / presented / you're more personally comfortable with what they can and can't do in a game, there's reason to consider those.

The NOVA's bracketing system helps guarantee players who go around 2-2 during the seed rounds a legitimate shot at Best Overall or a very high finish in that category if you can play well within your bracket of peers (3-1 or 4-0 over the last 4).

So, while taking a good competitive TAC to NOVA is certainly not a bad idea, I wouldn't OVERLY stress about it; just make sure you don't have too much fat in your list (needless upgrades, excessive elites/heavy/fast investment at cost of scoring units, yada yada).

I don't know about you, but when i go to a tournament i don't want a good placement. I want to win . This means, usually, not losing a single game. One defeat if often enough to strip you of the chance of winning the competition. So, i strongly suggest using the best TAC list you can think of...

Teschio wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
Food for thought, Ian - if there are some choices you really like that are better painted / presented / you're more personally comfortable with what they can and can't do in a game, there's reason to consider those.

The NOVA's bracketing system helps guarantee players who go around 2-2 during the seed rounds a legitimate shot at Best Overall or a very high finish in that category if you can play well within your bracket of peers (3-1 or 4-0 over the last 4).

So, while taking a good competitive TAC to NOVA is certainly not a bad idea, I wouldn't OVERLY stress about it; just make sure you don't have too much fat in your list (needless upgrades, excessive elites/heavy/fast investment at cost of scoring units, yada yada).

I don't know about you, but when i go to a tournament i don't want a good placement. I want to win . This means, usually, not losing a single game. One defeat if often enough to strip you of the chance of winning the competition. So, i strongly suggest using the best TAC list you can think of...

At the NOVA, for Best Overall, this isn't true. 3 tracks all parallel ... w/l (8-0 wins it); battle (battle points, regardless of record); renaissance (50% appearance, 50% record). Plus, you can win generalship for each bracket of 16 that's formed after round 4.

I'm like you, oh internet poster, in that I tend to aim for the undefeated track, but I'm just letting Ian know he has shots at legit awards without going ENTIRELY out of his comfort zone, as is the design of the system. Choose your own adventure - hardcore competition on win-loss; old-school styling of battle points; or a refined 50/50 appearance/competitive track, all parallel within the same event.

Thanks for all the help, guys.

Razerous wrote:Couple of random thoughts; Do you want to make efficient use of your slots? What list are you leaning towards?

At the moment, I'm leaning towards something similar to Teschio's suggestion - it has a lot of things in it that I happen to already own, although I'll probably end up toning it down a bit as I don't have all the required models (for example, going with Railsides, since I have the old models and won't be dropping £100 on the new ones any time soon!!). But there are loads of great ideas in there, and things that I hadn't thought of, and I like the idea of a Crisis-heavy build.

Ratius wrote:Been toying with this ArbitorIan close to 1850:

I like the idea of a Kroot horde, but there's no way I'll be able to build and paint that in time!!

MVBrandt wrote:So, while taking a good competitive TAC to NOVA is certainly not a bad idea, I wouldn't OVERLY stress about it; just make sure you don't have too much fat in your list (needless upgrades, excessive elites/heavy/fast investment at cost of scoring units, yada yada).

Teschio wrote: I don't know about you, but when i go to a tournament i don't want a good placement. I want to win . This means, usually, not losing a single game. One defeat if often enough to strip you of the chance of winning the competition. So, i strongly suggest using the best TAC list you can think of...

Oh, I'm under no illusions that I'm gonna win! I'll doubt I'll get a lot of practise in and, as I said before, I don't have all the models for uber-TAC. It's more that I'd like an army that at least has a chance of getting the odd winning game!

I usually pick my army on the basis of 'I fancy using these toys today', and so I'm not very good at identifying good combinations for competitive lists, hence this (very helpful) thread...

MVBrandt wrote:More direct to the list / point, you'll most want to consider a need for (as with any 6ed situation) linebreaker / enemy-backfield-contest critters. One kroot squad may not quite cut it; Stealth suits could, additional kroot could, etc. You can't blunt your way over there late game with a T6 W5 2+/5++ MC that can jump 4d6 on the last turn if you aren't taking Riptides (their best contribution to a Tau list), so you'll want a sneakier way to go about it.

Agreed. Actually, I might end up going with 2 Kroot squads anyway (and sacrificing the third FW squad), since I happen to have exactly that many Kroot in a state of almost-finished. Of course, I may well have some bouncy Fusion suits floating around the backfield, too...

Actually, it's probably time to update the list in the OP...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, OP updated to V4. Please rip it to bits again...

 ArbitorIan wrote:
(for example, going with Railsides, since I have the old models and won't be dropping £100 on the new ones any time soon!!).

NOOOO! Don't use Railsides, they are really bad.... one suggestion: instead of purchasing new models, modify the ones you have. A good idea would be to add some missile bits to the rifle, removing its current end (the ideal thing would be to use the actual missiles that are mounted on the models hands, but really any missile, including seekers mounted on the side of the rifle, would work), turning it into a missile launcher of a sort. It will respect the WYSIWYG, and it will save you a lot of money. There is no scenario in which Railsides are better than Missilesides, so you won't need those old models anymore, you should convert them to missiles. This also has one added bonus: new Missilesides models are ugly as crap! They look much better with hand-held (or shoulder mounted) rifles-turned-missile-launchers than they do with those stupid missile pods on their hands....

If you don't want to convert those models, though, just don't use Broadsides at all. Railsides are definitely not worth their points.

EDIT: Ok, i looked at the list V4. A few suggestions:

Remove the rail rifle from pathfinders. Their only use is to provide ML support. Actually, since your army is not in dire need of ML sources (not having Riptides help in this, since Riptides are effective only with alot of ML support), you can think about removing them completely. A few extra MLs are not bad though, you should test if your commander's drones + 2 skyrays are enough for your playstyle.

Drop the positional relay on the FB suit, and give it a Target Lock. This way, you can eliminate 2 tanks when you drop. Also, don't give them shield drones: a little firepower will kill the suits anyway, better to invest those points in something else. That unit costs 114 points, it's less than most tanks, they can easil kill 2 of them (or one if you really want to be sure to melt it...), and they absorb firepower if the enemy wants to eliminate them (after they already did their job, though...). If you want to use those points, better give some more drones to the Plasma suits, that are not a suicide unit. Or, some more marker drones with the commander's unit. I know more than 5 MLs is overkill, but a smart opponent will target them early, you risk losing effectiveness pretty quickly. I would go with the full 8 drones if you have the points, this way you can absorb some firepower and still be very effective.

Don't give sniper rounds to kroots. Those troops will start in Reserve almost every game, and you try to keep them out with Comms Relay as well. They are objective grabbers, not firepower.

And as i said, modify those Railsides or ditch them completely. They provide nothing you need (you have PLENTY of anti-tank with TL-MPs with Tak Hunter, and 3 dual-FB Crisis, you have anti-TEQs with Plasma suits and FB ones).

 ArbitorIan wrote:
* Commander (2 Missile Pods, Drone Controller, PEN, Target Lock) with Marker Drone [155]
* Ethereal [50]

* 1 Crisis Bodyguard (TL Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blaster) [67]
* 2 Crisis Suits (1 with TL Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blaster) (1 with 2 Fusion Blasters, Positional Relay) with 2 Shield Drones [138]
* 3 Crisis Suits (TL Plasma Rifles) with 2 Shield Drones [150]
* 3 Crisis Suits (2 with 2 Missile Pods, Target Lock) (1 Shas'vre with CCN & MSSS) with 4 Marker Drones [229]

* 12 Fire Warriors (Pulse Rifles) [108]
* 12 Fire Warriors (Pulse Rifles) [108]
* 10 Kroot (Sniper Rounds) with 1 Kroot Hound [75]
* 10 Kroot (Sniper Rounds) with 1 Kroot Hound [75]

* 6 Pathfinders (1 Rail Rifle) [81]

* Sky Ray (Disruption Pod, Blacksun Filter, SMS) [131]
* Sky Ray (Disruption Pod, Blacksun Filter, SMS) [131]
* 3 Broadside Suits (TL Heavy Rail Rifle, SMS, EWO) with 6 Missile Drones [282]

* Aegis Defense Line, Comms Relay [70]

Total - 1850

Why the comms relay? I am just curious.

I would field the suits & guns first, then work out what else you have spare. I would also strongly reccomend a base of 3x 4 pathfinders (6 pathfinders aren't much more survivable than 4 due to minimum firing thresholds...). Add more bodies & EMP grenades from there. So cheap, scary any mech/dred/vehicle loving player.

I do love the HYMP (Perhaps give one/two of the railsides target locks?) then field a 3rd with HYMP's? This helps focus the firepower of the drones somewhat, whilst retaining the punchy 60" rail guns.

If your not worried about attached drones (for at least 2/3 of the crisis squad units), how about fielding 15pt GUN + 15pt GUN + flamer. Pure utility, the flamer simply adds firepower to whatever you wish to do.

Main question really is.. what are you planning with those suits?

(EDIT: I disagree about the new missileside models. I have mine posed in a 45 degree gunslinger pose... But modelling/magnetising those models to allow you to experiment is a good idea.

Teschio wrote:instead of purchasing new models, modify the ones you have.

Thanks for all your help on this ! Conversion is certainly an option - they're already magnetised and I have some Sentinel missile launchers that would work well as 'extra large missile pods'. The issue might be legality...

@MVBrandt - how strict are you guys on conversions and MFA? If I use the old broadsides as converted missilesides then, since they're smaller and on 40mm bases, could it be argued that I'm modelling for advantage?

Teschio wrote:Drop the positional relay on the FB suit, and give it a Target Lock.

If I'm relying on late-game outflanking kroot, then isn't a positional relay going to be very useful to get them near the correct objective?? Maybe it's more use on the single bodyguard unit?

Or, could you see a reason to give a recon drone to the pathfinders (expensive solution, and I kinda wanted them behind the aegis line)...

razerous wrote:
Why the comms relay? I am just curious.

I would field the suits & guns first, then work out what else you have spare. I would also strongly reccomend a base of 3x 4 pathfinders (6 pathfinders aren't much more survivable than 4 due to minimum firing thresholds...). Add more bodies & EMP grenades from there. So cheap, scary any mech/dred/vehicle loving player.

The comms relay means the FB suits arrive on turn 2 and the Kroot can be held back as late as possible. I like the idea of EMP on those pathfinders, but it'll only be of any use if a tank gets to my lines, since the pathfinders are best behind the ADL. Ill reduce to 4. Could you really see a reason for more 4-man squads? I already have the super-marker-drone squad, 4 pathfinders and two skyrays....

If you're fielding that many crisis suits I'd suggest going down the farsight route so that all suits can benefit from the signature systems, tanking and gun drone ablative wounds. I also don't think you have enough troops, at 1850 I'd have all six slots filled even if its just with some min squads of FWs. The list would then be much less marker reliant too.

ArbitorIan wrote:

Teschio wrote:instead of purchasing new models, modify the ones you have.

Thanks for all your help on this ! Conversion is certainly an option - they're already magnetised and I have some Sentinel missile launchers that would work well as 'extra large missile pods'. The issue might be legality...

@MVBrandt - how strict are you guys on conversions and MFA? If I use the old broadsides as converted missilesides then, since they're smaller and on 40mm bases, could it be argued that I'm modelling for advantage?

Teschio wrote:Drop the positional relay on the FB suit, and give it a Target Lock.

If I'm relying on late-game outflanking kroot, then isn't a positional relay going to be very useful to get them near the correct objective?? Maybe it's more use on the single bodyguard unit?

Or, could you see a reason to give a recon drone to the pathfinders (expensive solution, and I kinda wanted them behind the aegis line)...

razerous wrote:
Why the comms relay? I am just curious.

I would field the suits & guns first, then work out what else you have spare. I would also strongly reccomend a base of 3x 4 pathfinders (6 pathfinders aren't much more survivable than 4 due to minimum firing thresholds...). Add more bodies & EMP grenades from there. So cheap, scary any mech/dred/vehicle loving player.

The comms relay means the FB suits arrive on turn 2 and the Kroot can be held back as late as possible. I like the idea of EMP on those pathfinders, but it'll only be of any use if a tank gets to my lines, since the pathfinders are best behind the ADL. Ill reduce to 4. Could you really see a reason for more 4-man squads? I already have the super-marker-drone squad, 4 pathfinders and two skyrays....

Legality is not an issue here. You are not using Railsides as missilesides, they are clearly converted models that represent exactly what you have in your list. And they even look better (at least to me) than the new missilesides models

Positional relay could work, but not in a unit that will get most likely killed after it shoots once. And it limits your deployment options for those suits. Target Lock, on the other hand, greatly increases the efficiency of those suits. Wih Acute Senses, you don't really need Positional Relay though.

djn wrote:If you're fielding that many crisis suits I'd suggest going down the farsight route so that all suits can benefit from the signature systems, tanking and gun drone ablative wounds. I also don't think you have enough troops, at 1850 I'd have all six slots filled even if its just with some min squads of FWs. The list would then be much less marker reliant too.

Yes, i totally agree and i think Farsight Enclave is one of the strongest lists right now, if not the strongest one. But he wasn't asking for advice about such a list... when i give advice, i tend to tweak lists, not change the idea completely, unless the list has some obvious flaw.
Troop are MORE than enough, though. Tau often win by wipe-out, not with scoring units. In my Farsight Enclave list, i use 2x6 FWs and 5 SM scouts, and i currently am 23-0....

To put it in perspective, I have 2x4 emp PF, 1x5 PF, 2 skyrays, a fireblade and a 6-drone markerlight squad (3 suits, BS3). Its a good amount for a 1500pt force. You've got 1850...

The 'super' ML squad isn't great atm, your investing a lot of points into.. 5 markerlight drones (1 commander & 4 from a XV8 squad?). What is more important with ML is multiple target saturation rather than one doom-squad only able to tag one unit/turn.

Treat EMP as denial and a cheap 8pt doom gun. If you never use them in a game, you've wasted 8-24pts. Ohwell. Same goes for the Pos Relay... however you only have 2 squads AND you've invested in the 5pt hounds AND kroot can infiltrate so whilst good, its not as useful as it may appear (to outflank from any board edge, including the rear).

Oh, if you only took one word of advice - Please take point-defence-relay on your skyrays. Supporting fire AND overwatch on those rather-large vehicles. I cannot stress how much this rocks awesome sauce. It ties the army together. I'd even swap it for the D-Pods as, you only get the skimmer cover-save if you move; as a skyray isn't a fast-skimmer, it can only fire 1 weapon if it moves at all. My thoughts.

Ian -

We're laid back on conversion and MFA. Our policy basically requires your conversions or counts-as be ultra clear (i.e., don't say "these sides that look mostly like railsides are missilesides, but these other identical looking ish ones with a minor antenna conversion are railsides"), and any advantages gained due to your model not being "stock standard" do not apply, while any disadvantages do.

That's to say, if your broadsides are substantially smaller, that's fine ... but when in doubt, they're visible, and when in doubt, they don't have LOS, yada yada.

Just be forthcoming/clear with your opponent,and you're good to go.

Razerous wrote:
To put it in perspective, I have 2x4 emp PF, 1x5 PF, 2 skyrays, a fireblade and a 6-drone markerlight squad (3 suits, BS3). Its a good amount for a 1500pt force. You've got 1850...

The 'super' ML squad isn't great atm, your investing a lot of points into.. 5 markerlight drones (1 commander & 4 from a XV8 squad?). What is more important with ML is multiple target saturation rather than one doom-squad only able to tag one unit/turn.

Treat EMP as denial and a cheap 8pt doom gun. If you never use them in a game, you've wasted 8-24pts. Ohwell. Same goes for the Pos Relay... however you only have 2 squads AND you've invested in the 5pt hounds AND kroot can infiltrate so whilst good, its not as useful as it may appear (to outflank from any board edge, including the rear).

Oh, if you only took one word of advice - Please take point-defence-relay on your skyrays. Supporting fire AND overwatch on those rather-large vehicles. I cannot stress how much this rocks awesome sauce. It ties the army together. I'd even swap it for the D-Pods as, you only get the skimmer cover-save if you move; as a skyray isn't a fast-skimmer, it can only fire 1 weapon if it moves at all. My thoughts.

Don't take this the wrong way, but i strongly advice OP to disregard everything you just wrote...

Teschio wrote:

djn wrote:If you're fielding that many crisis suits I'd suggest going down the farsight route so that all suits can benefit from the signature systems, tanking and gun drone ablative wounds. I also don't think you have enough troops, at 1850 I'd have all six slots filled even if its just with some min squads of FWs. The list would then be much less marker reliant too.

Yes, i totally agree and i think Farsight Enclave is one of the strongest lists right now, if not the strongest one. But he wasn't asking for advice about such a list... when i give advice, i tend to tweak lists, not change the idea completely, unless the list has some obvious flaw.
Troop are MORE than enough, though. Tau often win by wipe-out, not with scoring units. In my Farsight Enclave list, i use 2x6 FWs and 5 SM scouts, and i currently am 23-0....

I don't see it as a radical departure, no more so than his original list to what the latest incarnation is. Just a case of blobbing up the suits and a new HQ.

Damn that is light on troops, do you use a comms relay to keep them off the board? Surely they get smashed as soon as they turn up? Surely flyers who have the manoeuvrability to get to your deployment zone bypassing the farsight council just annihilate them eg hell drakes and scythes.

djn wrote:
I don't see it as a radical departure, no more so than his original list to what the latest incarnation is. Just a case of blobbing up the suits and a new HQ.

Damn that is light on troops, do you use a comms relay to keep them off the board? Surely they get smashed as soon as they turn up? Surely flyers who have the manoeuvrability to get to your deployment zone bypassing the farsight council just annihilate them eg hell drakes and scythes.

It makes a huge difference, it's not just a matter of having all the crisis in one unit. The entire concept of the list changes completely, so does the way to play it, and therefore the units that are more efficient in that list. I would also be completely lost without a SM Librarian with GoI in my list, i think any Farsight Bomb needs it, and that IS a pretty big change.

No, i do not have a comms relay because i do not have an ADL (i play at 1750, at 1850 i would definitely add it). And my troops hide as soon as they enter, preferably near the Broadsides. they never shoot and Go to Ground if shot at. A properly built Farsight Enclave does not need troops to win, because it tables the opponent. I can win with First blood, Warlord and Linebreaker alone, because you have no unit to conquer objectives after i am done with you, even if i lose all 3 of my troops.