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So I've recently begun fielding an allied unit of Tau with my army. Either Kroot on an objective or Firewarriors on an ADL for the troops choice. The HQ choice is a Commander with the Command and Control Node plus a Multi Spectrum Sensor Suite. I join him to a unit of Devastators with 4 plasma cannons. I've enjoyed it thus far. 4 plasma bursts which ignore cover and can re-roll are not to be trifled with!

Also if you give him the Puretide chip, you can grant all kinds of additional goodies to the firing unit

Definitely add the puretide chip, but this sounds pretty hilariously awesome!

I've fielded this a couple of times now with amazing results. I've taken to filling out the devestator squad, since the extra wounds really improves the survivability of the unit. I may look into giving the commander some additional survivability buffs and putting him out front to suck up wounds, but I'm not sure which option would be cheaper.

Still, this has been working out really, really well for me.

Are they Imperial Fist devastators? Cause those would seem to get tank hunters too

All three times I've used them since the new Marines 'dex dropped, I've played the Marine detachment as Iron Hands, but Imperial Fists would be pretty snazzy too.

Twinlinked Ignores Cover Grav Cannons with a 4++ for tanking ap2 is also worth further investigation.

I think grav cannons already ignore cover, but I don't have my book on me

Grav weapons don't ignore cover. Based on the way it is worded, there is an argument that vehicles would not get a cover save against grav weapons. However, I don't see any conceivable reality where an FAQ clarification upholds that viewpoint, and I wouldn't attempt it in a game.


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 GreyHamster wrote:
Twinlinked Ignores Cover Grav Cannons with a 4++ for tanking ap2 is also worth further investigation.

Sticking Shas O'mygod in with some Devastator Centurions might be a good way to go, although the Centurions are more expensive than Devs.

This tactic has been working out so well, I think I'm going to stop using it. It's been causing hurt feelings in my casual games, so I'm going to file it away for later use.

An invulnerable save for the commander can really help. A couple of shield drones are useful, although other drones don't really do anything, since the plasma cannons are deadly enough to kill pretty much anything else. In the months that I've been using this, I've only had a single non-vehicle unit that wasn't wiped out completely by a single round of fire, and that was the Avatar of Khaine. All of my opponents with any experience against it have started giving the unit a bubble of avoidance that might as well be a demilitarized zone. That works out really well with a drop pod list, since they can either cluster up and make themselves vulnerable to the pods, or spread out more and be vulnerable to the plasma cannons.

In any event, this one definitely earns a permanent place in the playbook, but it's not going to be a standby in friendly play anymore.

Sounds awesome. And classy move filing it away instead of being TFG Wish I had opponents available to try out tactics let alone evaluate and retire them Keep us posted if you come up with any other nasty surprises!

With long fangs he'd be worse; you can get a fifth PC and gain split fire lol.

 Jimsolo wrote:
This tactic has been working out so well, I think I'm going to stop using it. It's been causing hurt feelings in my casual games, so I'm going to file it away for later use.

This right here is the difinitive proof that Allies as they currently are are the worst thing about 6th edition. It just makes some combos unfun to play against.

I'm glad that you found the combo and that it worked for you and you will find some other units that a Tau buffmander will make totally OP. Happy discovering.

However, for myself, I've found that allies as they currently work have single handedly ruined this edition for me.

Some combos for allies are just lawlsy but most of them i agree are just wtf. Some of them are so strong you need a tailored list to beat it, and if you dont face it you probably lost because youarent prepared for the rest.

That, or dumb luck.

Now a fun combo would be my ork + tau list lol 1BW with MANz + Boss + KFF, 4 Trukks, 9 Buggies, allied in 5 Tau Piranhas. Fast, immune to most infantry guns, and annoying as hell rofl.

The Shrike wrote:With long fangs he'd be worse; you can get a fifth PC and gain split fire lol.

Alas, SW and Tau aren't Battle Brothers.

Jayden63 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
This tactic has been working out so well, I think I'm going to stop using it. It's been causing hurt feelings in my casual games, so I'm going to file it away for later use.

This right here is the difinitive proof that Allies as they currently are are the worst thing about 6th edition. It just makes some combos unfun to play against.

I'm glad that you found the combo and that it worked for you and you will find some other units that a Tau buffmander will make totally OP. Happy discovering.

However, for myself, I've found that allies as they currently work have single handedly ruined this edition for me.

Sorry you feel that way, Jayden. I disagree in the strongest possible sense, but I'm still sorry you feel that way. Personally, I think allies are one of the greatest changes the game has ever seen. Now, instead of having to buy five hundred dollars of models all at once, I can buy one box, and one character, and have a completely legal allied detachment. For many codexes (Eldar, Tau, both flavors of Chaos, Orks, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, just off the top of my head) you can get a completely useful combination of a single HQ-and-troop. That's a phenomenal step forward towards making the hobby more affordable for all of us! It allows people to dabble in armies they were considering, to test the waters before committing. Not only does it make it more likely that you will run into a wider variety of lists (I've started allied detachments of Grey Knights, Tau, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and two different flavors of Space Marines since 6th ed hit) but it makes it easier to expand your own options. I know that we're still in a transitory period, where people are having to learn to be more flexible, or to come to grips with the kinds of armies and combos we will be seeing more and more frequently, but barring the people who either can not, or will not learn to grow and change as players, I believe that Allies will only benefit us going forward.

Well I would agree with you, if not for the half-arsed illogical bullcrap approach GW took to Allies.

Tau Commander shouldn't be able to buff Space Marines.

1. Because they shouldn't be Battle Brothers.
2. Because neither Space Wolves or Blood Angels can buff Space Marines.

Why is that? Because GW FAQed pretty much stopped all pre-6th ed buffing with the 1st wave 6th ed FAQs.

It makes absolute sense that Xenos can buff Space Marines with Xeno tech, but god forbid a Space Marine tries to catch a ride in another Chapters Rhino.

The fact a Tau Commander can give Tank Hunters to Centurions, but Logan Grimnar no way! = Fething stupid.

I hate the Allies chart because its too strict where it shouldn't be, not strict enough where it should be.

Thee above +1. This is what is wrong with allies. Hell there were allies sice 3rd edition. Its called 1500 points of marines + 500 points of guard vs. 2000 points of chaos. Did nobody ever do this? I saw it happen all the time when someone showed up with different point values. It really happened when you try to olay with fully painted stuff

Its the sharing of abilities and skills and special rules that break the game. Some units and weapons just get exponentially unbalanced once they recieve abilities that they were never ment to have or even been considered when being developed. And every new codex just makes it worse as the list of unintended power bumps just keep growing.

Xanrn wrote:Well I would agree with you, if not for the half-arsed illogical bullcrap approach GW took to Allies.

Tau Commander shouldn't be able to buff Space Marines.

1. Because they shouldn't be Battle Brothers.
2. Because neither Space Wolves or Blood Angels can buff Space Marines.

Why is that? Because GW FAQed pretty much stopped all pre-6th ed buffing with the 1st wave 6th ed FAQs.

It makes absolute sense that Xenos can buff Space Marines with Xeno tech, but god forbid a Space Marine tries to catch a ride in another Chapters Rhino.

The fact a Tau Commander can give Tank Hunters to Centurions, but Logan Grimnar no way! = Fething stupid.

I hate the Allies chart because its too strict where it shouldn't be, not strict enough where it should be.

Except that Blood Angels and Space Wolves can buff Space marines. The Sanguinor's blessing can apply to any Space Marine sergeant, for example. Rune Priests (with their access to Divination that regular Librarians lack) can still put Prescience on Space Marines. Sure, some of their stuff doesn't apply, but most of the equipment in the Tau 'dex doesn't work for allies, either.

Jayden63 wrote:Thee above +1. This is what is wrong with allies. Hell there were allies sice 3rd edition. Its called 1500 points of marines + 500 points of guard vs. 2000 points of chaos. Did nobody ever do this? I saw it happen all the time when someone showed up with different point values. It really happened when you try to olay with fully painted stuff

Its the sharing of abilities and skills and special rules that break the game. Some units and weapons just get exponentially unbalanced once they recieve abilities that they were never ment to have or even been considered when being developed. And every new codex just makes it worse as the list of unintended power bumps just keep growing.

I never saw anyone do that. You certainly couldn't have done that in competitive play prior to 6th edition.

The sharing of abilities and skills doesn't "break the game," it just adds a new dimension that has to be considered, studied, learned, and understood. Not unlike flyers, fortifications, or a score of other mechanics that have been added, expanded, or refurbished since the game began.

I agree that this is a period of big upheaval, where we all have to, to some extent, relearn the game. But I seriously think it's going to improve it in the long run.

I would agree that theres some ally combos that are really stupid and some armies really shouldnt buff the other but I dont believe allies broke the game. when 6th came out some of the top grand tourny lists were allies SW's and IG were among that which to me is a rather fluffy type of list having IG and marines fighting together. But now that more codexs are coming out and are getting better the top armies Ive seen recently are triple riptide, wraith spam, wave serpent spam, and the dreaded screamer star. None of those list corporate allies and they are among the top lists. The next couple of lists that follow close by are eldar/tau which is an ally but where have the IG and SW list gone, once a top tier list I now see it on the bottom of the charts for tournies. What is really messing the game up right now is the codex creep. GW wants to try and keep making each codex better and better and as time goes on people come up with better combinations for allies.

 Jimsolo wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Thee above +1. This is what is wrong with allies. Hell there were allies sice 3rd edition. Its called 1500 points of marines + 500 points of guard vs. 2000 points of chaos. Did nobody ever do this? I saw it happen all the time when someone showed up with different point values. It really happened when you try to olay with fully painted stuff

Its the sharing of abilities and skills and special rules that break the game. Some units and weapons just get exponentially unbalanced once they recieve abilities that they were never ment to have or even been considered when being developed. And every new codex just makes it worse as the list of unintended power bumps just keep growing.

I never saw anyone do that. You certainly couldn't have done that in competitive play prior to 6th edition.

I saw it all the time, beer and pretzels and all that. Sure it never happened in a tournament but then again, I don't play in tournaments so environment dictates each persons experience.

The sharing of abilities and skills doesn't "break the game," it just adds a new dimension that has to be considered, studied, learned, and understood. Not unlike flyers, fortifications, or a score of other mechanics that have been added, expanded, or refurbished since the game began.

Yes, adding in flyers, fortifications, even double FOC does add a new dimension to the game. Mixing and matching abilities is not a new dimension, its playing with cheat codes. I'm not calling you or anyone out, but once the game becomes how do I break one OP combo with another just as OP combo it really starts to loose its shine. I played a game (and yes I lost) against a Tau/Eldar list and the entire game, from beginning to end felt like I was playing with my 8 yr old son playing one of his made up toy soldiers games. Where everybody never misses, and all of his guys are super tough with 1000 hit points and can respawn, and anything that the cat knocks over is ultra dead (unless its his guys). There was no strategy to the game anymore. Any weakness that his tau army might have had, was negated by the Eldar buffs.

It seriously is like playing with cheat codes in a video game. Some people enjoy that, and more power to them, others like to play on the toughest difficulty right out of the gate. There actually is some value in loosing over and over and over, thus once you win/beat the level, genuinely win, it feels so good, like you actually accomplished something.

In order to win at 40K you used to have to actually play within the rules of an army. Work around its limitations and find ways to maximize its strengths. Kind of like the old adage where there are three things... Speed, power, durability. Pick 2. With allies, not only can you get all three, but you also get to increase any one of them to 11. Yeah there is fun in seeing what combos you can come up with to do it, however, it saps all the fun out of the game if you have to play against it. And its not the same thing as cranking up the difficulty and just plowing through. I could have replayed that above match 100 times and baring the dice gods extreme generosity, I will have lost them all. You just cannot penetrate a cinder block wall with a raw spaghetti noodle.

I agree that this is a period of big upheaval, where we all have to, to some extent, relearn the game. But I seriously think it's going to improve it in the long run.

If 40K does continue down this path, it will loose all of its identity. The things that made it special. Factions no longer matter. When you can make eldar play like Nids why bother having Eldar and Nids in the first place? Why have separate codexs at all? AT some point they will be able to rewrite the whole game with just 5 books. One HQ book, one elite book, one troops book, one Fast Attack book, and one Heavy Support book. Pick 2-4 units from each/any of the books and make your army that way. Yeah, that sounds a bit absurd, but its not that far off from what we have now.

I agree to an extent.
I recently became interested in tournament play.
However, when I compared how tournaments were played and won 5+ years ago to now, I instantly scrapped the idea.
The game has come down to either have fun, or win. Tournament, or beer and pretzels.

Why aren't the two combined anymore?

This tactic is pretty awesome. I really want to see this with Dev Centurions.

@UnadoptedPuppy: I believe the new drink of choice is your opponents tears.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:

@UnadoptedPuppy: I believe the new drink of choice is your opponents tears.
Lucarikx

Well put, sir. Appetites evolve. Feed on the weak

On topic: I've always loved plasma devs. They have always done well, sans "spotter."
How many points is this suggested commander?

120 if you give him no weapons and no other equipment. 200 for four plasma devs. Total of 320, and essentially selecting an infantry unit within 36' to be removed from play each turn.

Anyone thought of deep-striking the Tau commander, then dropping a pod full of plasma toting sternguard nearby? before diembarking into coherency, pulling the same shenanigans from withing rapid fire range?

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Why aren't the two combined anymore?

For many people it is. I haven't found a list yet that I didn't have fun playing against. An opponent here or there, sure - but you'll have that outside tournaments as well.

I think the beauty of the cannons is the massive bubble of death/no-zone/killing-field/demilitarized zone they create with their 36" range. To kill them you have to close within their murder-range, and little is safe. Doing the same with sternguard could be brutal too, but only once, and only if the pod scatters into range of the character. I think it's a possible tactic, but I don't think it's quite as reliably nasty as the so-dubbed Plasma Spotter.

I realize the sternguard would still have their special issue ammo, but there is no way such a unit (and with a reasonably costly character upgrade) would survive a turn in your opponents backfield.

I think the plasma (or maybe better to be melta for this) sternguard could pod down and blow up a couple of transports (yay combat squads!), potentially stranding some juicy scoring units within the killing field of the plasma spotter team.

Belly wrote:
Anyone thought of deep-striking the Tau commander, then dropping a pod full of plasma toting sternguard nearby? before diembarking into coherency, pulling the same shenanigans from withing rapid fire range?

I'm sure there's a way to combine this with Shas'Omygod and Farsight for added nastiness. Have to file this away for later use. Thanks, Belly!

 Jimsolo wrote:
This tactic has been working out so well, I think I'm going to stop using it. It's been causing hurt feelings in my casual games, so I'm going to file it away for later use.

An invulnerable save for the commander can really help. A couple of shield drones are useful, although other drones don't really do anything, since the plasma cannons are deadly enough to kill pretty much anything else. In the months that I've been using this, I've only had a single non-vehicle unit that wasn't wiped out completely by a single round of fire, and that was the Avatar of Khaine. All of my opponents with any experience against it have started giving the unit a bubble of avoidance that might as well be a demilitarized zone. That works out really well with a drop pod list, since they can either cluster up and make themselves vulnerable to the pods, or spread out more and be vulnerable to the plasma cannons.

In any event, this one definitely earns a permanent place in the playbook, but it's not going to be a standby in friendly play anymore.

I'm seeing this more and more. I've had to do the same for local gameplay. I simply can't a game in unless I tone the list down (IE: no allies being the biggest issue). This has created quite an interesting dilemma among gaming, especially pick up games. I basically bring two army lists and default to whatever my oppponent wants to play.

Tactically, it's extremely viable, but I think the buff Commander is getting passed around codexes just to find the most wicked combination out there. I've seen Dark Reapers, O'Vesa-star, and now it's creeping into the Space Marines. To be fair, it was only a matter of time before the SM players started experimenting.

I've been experimenting from the moment 6th edition dropped and opened up allies. This was my greatest success so far.