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Yeah, Vindicares are looking more and more to be near-vital in a competitive GK army. If only for their flexibility, ability against tanks and psykers.

sourclams wrote:
I agree that's a problem, but it becomes much less of a problem if Psy-disruption model gets BOOMHEADSHOT-ed by a Vindicaire.

hehe. Very true. Everything has a counter.

What of the dreaded Psylencers- which may or may not be a weapon that fires at anyone who uses a psyker power or tries to block one.

Just a shot in the dark, but wouldn't that be cool?

Gitzbitah wrote:What of the dreaded Psylencers- which may or may not be a weapon that fires at anyone who uses a psyker power or tries to block one.

Just a shot in the dark, but wouldn't that be cool?

I have to admit I hope it's not as overtly lame as something called the 'psylencer' must ultimately be, but for an army so reliant on psykers doing their thing I do believe that there'll be something to counter psychic counters.

Jaon wrote:Im not sure what your asking Coldsadhungry ???

Nothing, was just commenting on the issue of making the codex a hardcover and whether the increased cost would be off putting. Pretty sure it was raised in this thread, right? Maybe it was on warseer...

Current rumor has the 'hardcover only' thing being restricted to WFB and Army Books.

For now...

If "successful" I wonder what the soonest they bring hardcovers over into 40k?

I wouldnt worry about that, they are SM, and GW isnt likely to nerf SM much if at all. Besides, I fully expect this codex to continue the trend of "more powerful than the last one" that GW seems to do.

After all nothing sucks in the newbs and WAAC gamers like the newest army being the most powerful...until the next release comes out...

We are all screwed when the necron codex comes out

So Aegis armor got changed...I like the boost but I have to say the old mini psychic hood did come in handy more than i see this coming in handy.

Whats the rumored aegis doing again?

Psycannon:-We knew we would probably see two modes of shooting...honestly the AP3 rumor was ridiculous and this makes much more sense...rending...f*** yeah...especially when combined with the no LoS necessary rule

As long as they get lots of shots like heavy 4 with assault 2 then GKs have all tehy need vs heavy mech.
But that also implies a working shrouding power.
Your expensive and fragile purgation squads at the back will loose any shootout point to point if they havent got any night fighting power to hide behind.
Hopfully powers will be interchangeable for purgation squads, either shoot with no LOS or opt for shrouding but not both.

Mind Blades: my goodness...i cant believe some of these powers...

It all depends on who can get them, like GK libbies didnt have that one listed for example. Maybe its just a few ICs that are going to get that one.

Grey Knight Terminator-cant see using these when there are paladins...sorry

If GKs get stormshields they´d be SS/TH termies on crack, better point effectiveness then paladins.
Hammer terminators are as far as I still know the ultimate counter to paladins.

Razorback-New more survivable razor knight spam coming soon!

With a TL psycannon option please

2+ cover, Astral Aim, Might of Titan, Purgation Squad...ohhhh?

= overpriced through the roof most likely.

Like saying vanguard marines with jumppacks, stormshields, plasma pistols and lightning claws are "ohhhh".
Wonder why they are never ever seen...

If Grey Knights don't have anything to counter psychic defense (hoods, runes, SitW), then this codex will be completely ed. If Ld 9 on Justicars turns out to be true, then even a Psychic Hood nullifies Hammerhand on an equal roll.

This!

Psylencers really sound like an anti, anti psycher - wargear. Maybe it allows squads who get them to be unaffected by anti and/or psycher powers.

How does one measure the success of a different style of product when one only sells that particular product. To determine which is more successful, wouldn't you have to also release a soft-cover version and then compare sales volumes?



Anyway, surprised to see a mention of Astral Aim. That will no doubt reduce cover saves.

Pyriel- wrote:Whats the rumored aegis doing again?

-1 Ld to Psykers targeting the unit.
Dreadnoughts have the Reinforced Aegis (Standard? Venerable-only?) which is -4 Ld to Psykers targeting a unit within 12" of the Dreadnought.

Pyriel- wrote:

2+ cover, Astral Aim, Might of Titan, Purgation Squad...ohhhh?

= overpriced through the roof most likely.

Librarian (150) +3 powers (15), Purgation Squad of 10 (200), +4 Psycannons (80). So 445 points for that combo. Not exactly cheap, indeed.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Anyway, surprised to see a mention of Astral Aim. That will no doubt reduce cover saves.

Rumors peg it as the ability to shoot at things not in the unit's LOS, but the targets gets a 4+ cover save.

Vhalyar wrote:Rumors peg it as the ability to shoot at things not in the unit's LOS, but the targets gets a 4+ cover save.

Well that does fit with the fluff I've read as well, but... seems a bit OTT.

Then again, given who's writing this Codex, that's unsurprising...

H.B.M.C. wrote:How does one measure the success of a different style of product when one only sells that particular product. To determine which is more successful, wouldn't you have to also release a soft-cover version and then compare sales volumes?



Anyway, surprised to see a mention of Astral Aim. That will no doubt reduce cover saves.

Good point, but I'd imagine they will compare sales of the new HC only book to previous Army Book sales, and not just O&G army books either.

If it is anywhere near the same amount, they'll probably call it a success and start plans for a complete book/codex conversion process going forward.

Maybe?

Vhalyar wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

2+ cover, Astral Aim, Might of Titan, Purgation Squad...ohhhh?

= overpriced through the roof most likely.

Librarian (150) +3 powers (15), Purgation Squad of 10 (200), +4 Psycannons (80). So 445 points for that combo. Not exactly cheap, indeed.

Highly situational I know...Going to assume that most purgation squads will be 5 man though...and it would be another 75 points for the techmarine...haha...not likely to happen but if it does...fun

Alpharius wrote:Good point, but I'd imagine they will compare sales of the new HC only book to previous Army Book sales, and not just O&G army books either.

If it is anywhere near the same amount, they'll probably call it a success and start plans for a complete book/codex conversion process going forward.

Maybe?

I can see it now:


GW Employee #1: Look at the sales figures for the new Orcs & Goblins Army Book!
GW Employee #2: Yes, it's selling like hot cakes.
GW Employee #3: How does it compare to previous Army Book releases?
GW Employee #1: Previous releases? You're not thinking straight Jeff - look at the sales figures.
GW Employee #2: Exactly! I think that every Orc & Goblin player is buying one. This is an amazing success.
GW Employee #3: But, hold on, wouldn't every Orc & Goblin player buy a soft-back had we released that instead of the hardback?
GW Employee #2: That sounds like... logic... Jeff.
GW Employee #1: You're right it does.
GW Employee #3: No, really guys, c'mon. We just released a product that is required to play, and the fact that people are buying it is being seen as a success of the new hardback idea when all it's really an example of is people buying our Army Books, which they do anyway.
GW Employee #1: Yep... that's a definite case of the logics you've got their Jeff.
GW Employee #2: I'll prepare the Pain Glove for Jeff's reeducation...

HBMC you should write GW fan fiction for a living.

Your meagre attempts at insulting me are... meagre.

Pyriel- wrote:
The really interesting thing is how many attacks do GKs get?
Statline says a puny A1 which would be totally ridiculous and overnerfed from the current codex.
Will the stormbolter give them +1A?
Will they get charge bonus ont op of that or just?

Meaning are GKs A1 with A2 only on the charge or are they A2 (A1 with special/heavy weapon) and A3 on the charge?
I fear the GKs will end up as A1 and A2 only on the charge as a 20p base cost and power weapon as standard seems pretty balanced at 20p base cost.

With A1 GKs will people ever take PAGKs? They would be total crap at melee and the strike squads wouldnt even be able to handle basic horde squads, only SM tac squads in melee but SM tacs will annihilate an equivalent GK strike squad in shooting so what´s the deal.

Well we have the possibility of GK gaining counter charge via bestowed special rules, so its not all bad. Pretty sure PAGK will have true grit, so storm bolters confer 1+A, or PAGK are simply going to find it impossible to get out of close combat. If GW think giving them power weapons is going to help against hordes of orks and gribblies, they thought wrong. We need 2 attacks base.

Grey Knight Rumors look pretty interesting so far, sieemingly OTT but I think it could be cool if you really arent able field very many models. Highly powerful but very few in number, it would be an interesting direction to take an army list.

As far as the hardcover codexs are concerned, I like the idea but in reality I wish they would release little pocket version with just the rules similiar to the mini BRB. If they packaged the hardcover-sit-at-home-and-read-it-like-a-civilized-person version with the down-and-dirty-take-to -the-tourney version that would be better then an all hardcover or nothing route. IMHO

-1 Ld to Psykers targeting the unit.
Dreadnoughts have the Reinforced Aegis (Standard? Venerable-only?) which is -4 Ld to Psykers targeting a unit within 12" of the Dreadnought.

Hmm, wonder why they put that one in.
Almost all psychers are ld10, having ld 9 on a psycher casting something nasty on the GK squad will hardly mean it will fail in any meaningful numbers.

Librarian (150) +3 powers (15), Purgation Squad of 10 (200), +4 Psycannons (80). So 445 points for that combo. Not exactly cheap, indeed.

Highly situational I know...Going to assume that most purgation squads will be 5 man though...and it would be another 75 points for the techmarine...haha...not likely to happen but if it does...fun

I guess its not something that is effective to use unless the army is built around that combo.
Like having the HQ that makes purgation squads scoring and then having 3 mini purgation squads at the back in terrain cover.
5 purgation knights with 4Xpsycannons should run at 180p.
A libby amongst them who can cast 2 powers per turn will run at 150p and then 2 of the 3 squads can get shrouding plus if anything threatens them in Cc the libby can use a summon power to bring a Cc squad to the rescue.

So you get at the cheapest a shooty section at around 690 points without the purgation=scoring HQ.
Those will have 3+ terrain cover and dish out some 43 psycannon shots per turn, in effect half that number if LOS is negated.
The rest of the army could be cheap mobile strike squads and 2 small termie squads or 1 high quality Cc squad.
Should make for a pretty decent line shooty army with smaller advancing elements.

The purgation squads will still get their a**es handled to them from high volume cheap shooting like long fang HBs and such as a 3+ save is only a 3+ save and the purgations dont have casulty soakers.
At some +50p (techmarine) ONE squad or several if they share terrain, could be at 2+ cover save.

I´ll think that setup will be one of my favorite ones in fact.

Jaon wrote:Well we have the possibility of GK gaining counter charge via bestowed special rules, so its not all bad. Pretty sure PAGK will have true grit, so storm bolters confer 1+A, or PAGK are simply going to find it impossible to get out of close combat. If GW think giving them power weapons is going to help against hordes of orks and gribblies, they thought wrong. We need 2 attacks base.

Is this wish-listing? I haven't seen any indication of True Grit or Countercharge.

pretre wrote:Is this wish-listing? I haven't seen any indication of True Grit or Countercharge.

True Grit is absent from the documents that the current rumor posters have, it is. Counter attack on the other hand is something that a Grand Master can choose to give to d3 units.

Vhalyar wrote:

pretre wrote:Is this wish-listing? I haven't seen any indication of True Grit or Countercharge.

True Grit is absent from the documents that the current rumor posters have, it is. Counter attack on the other hand is something that a Grand Master can choose to give to d3 units.

QFT.

True Grit was wishlisting, but its still a viable possibility. We are yet to know all their is to know about this codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also guys, one day a wise man by the name of Brother SRM said:


"Don't judge a book by its cover, when you haven't even seen the cover"

Minor confirmation:
According to b4z over at Warseer, two trainee managers were visiting GW headquarters this week and were shown the plastic sprues of GK Terminators and the Venom.

Im sorry whats "The Venom"?

and I cant find Might of Titan on the first page, anyone care to explain?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Your meagre attempts at insulting me are... meagre.

I'll stop if you will.

Jaon wrote:Im sorry whats "The Venom"?

and I cant find Might of Titan on the first page, anyone care to explain?

the Venom, as in, the Dark Eldar transport ship which currently has no model.

Might of Titan was listed with the Librarian Psychic powers, I believe back on page 5ish (a while back, can't remember now). Was supposed to grant one model +1 Str and +1d6 Armour Pen. Don't remember the range though.

Edit: Page 2! and affects a Unit (so a whole squad...) which seems a little much.

Jaon wrote:Im sorry whats "The Venom"?

and I cant find Might of Titan on the first page, anyone care to explain?

A venom is a [Dark] Eldar transport. Arguably their best.

Might of Titan IIRC adds an extra strength (on top of Hammerhand) and an extra D6 against vehicles. This can apply to units too. I.e. It's a powerful anti-tank method, albeit close combat only.

Dang it. Ninja'd!

Pics originally from Heresy Online

It's a freaking transformer....

Wow. Good find BritishHomeStores ()

The standard figures and dreadknights look seriously AMAZING. I think these could easily be GW's best kits for a while looking at the pics and that's saying something considering Dark Eldar.

I think the characters at the front look really nice too.

This is definitely an army I may have to consider. I may jump the bandwagon for the first time...