Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys, I was just wondering what you guys thought about a 1v1 Swarmlord vs Skarbrand. Realistically I think the Swarmlord would win every time. Now, an experienced Tyranid player going up against Skarbrand would probably roll all four of his dice on Biomancy knowing how important iron arm is. A iron arm, enfeeble combo or an iron warm, warp speed combo would be absolutely devstating. Also Skarbrand would have to re-roll his 5++, resulting in death, yes Skarbrand does have EW but does that matter, with iron arm the Swarmlord would also have EW. Could skarbrand take down 5 T7-9 wounds in 2 turns because by the end of round two he would be dead for sure. My view on this fight may be a bit biased

Skarbrand doesn't have Eternal Warrior.

Although he does have Fleshbane (always Wounds on a 2+).

So if he Assaults the Swarm Lord its an average of:

8 Hits
6.666 Wounds
3.333 Failed saves for the Swarm Lord

Swarm Lord won't benefit from Feel No Pain if he has it from Endurance because Scarbrands attacks inflict Instant Death.

Although the odds of the Swarm Lord getting Iron Arm are quite high.

And all the Swarm Lord needs one round of combat to kill poor Skarbrand:

4.444 Hits (benefits from Hatred because of Skarbrand)
2.222 Wounds (not assuming any Strength bonus from Iron Arm or rerolls from Preferred Enemy).
1.976 Wounds on Skarbrand (rerolling successful saves)
Dead Skarbrand!

Swarmy kills basically everything except maybe a Great Unclean One or possibly some of the Greater Demons in CC

Dont all daemons have the Eternal Warrior USR with the new rules

Dont all daemons have the Eternal Warrior USR with the new rules

Nope

3

2x210 wrote:
Swarmy kills basically everything except maybe a Great Unclean One or possibly some of the Greater Demons in CC

Yeah it pretty much comes down to who rolls better for Iron Arm.

I kinda hate how reliant some units and armies are on that particular power.

I really think they need to do away with eternal warrior.

 minigun762 wrote:

2x210 wrote:
Swarmy kills basically everything except maybe a Great Unclean One or possibly some of the Greater Demons in CC

Yeah it pretty much comes down to who rolls better for Iron Arm.

I kinda hate how reliant some units and armies are on that particular power.

I really think they need to do away with eternal warrior.

No, it comes down to the fact that Shadow in the Warp will make the Great Unclean fail his psychic test for Iron Arm and then the Swarmlord only needs to inflict 1 Wound to kill it.

Tyranids need Biomancy to compete, I'd be fine if we traded access to Biomancy for a good codex with decent powers and Eternal Warrior as standard on the Swarmlord.*

I disagree with removing Eternal Warrior. Without EW we'd have Toughness 6 Space Marine HQs running around all over the place.

*Seriously, it doesn't make any sense that our immortal Swarmlord doesn't get it but Lysander does.

My gripe is more about psychic powers in general. Buffs are typically too strong since you don't need to beat a deny the witch roll. Witch fire are almost all terrible..
Most maledictions are fairly balanced.

As far as EW, I'd be more ok with it if Instant Death superseded it. Have it serve to protect models from being doubled out.

 minigun762 wrote:
My gripe is more about psychic powers in general. Buffs are typically too strong since you don't need to beat a deny the witch roll. Witch fire are almost all terrible..
Most maledictions are fairly balanced.

As far as EW, I'd be more ok with it if Instant Death superseded it. Have it serve to protect models from being doubled out.

So you'd be ok with it if were completely useless on anything higher than Toughness 5?

I think only one unit per codex should have Eternal Warrior, like their most powerful or something.
Tyranids: The Swarmlord
Orks; Ghazghull
Necrons: Imotekh
Eldar: The Avatar
Imperial guard: Commissar Yarrick
Space Marines: Marneus Calgar (or another better HQ)
CSM: Abaddon
Grey Knights: They don't need it hell Draigo is stupidly written, I think hes a Daemon imho
Dark Angels: Azrael(I mean come on! hes freaking Supreme Grand Master)
Blood Angels: The Sanguinor(I mean hes basically Sanguinius)
Dark Eldar: Asdrubel Vect or Urien Rakarth
Sisters of Battle: Saint Celestine
Space Wolves: I know this is slightly off topic but cut them down to 2 HQ choices and no Saga of the freaking Bear. Logan Grimnir
Tau Empire: Farsight or Shadowsun (no ethereal even Aun'Shi in all his awesomeness is frail because he is an ethereal)
Daemons: Imo would be a bit OP if they got it because then all the Four Chaos God SC would get it because people would complain if it was only like Skarbrand for example.

This means only one model per Codex has Immune to Instant Death and if GW slightly decreased the amount of 'Oh! I cause Instant Death because I'm awesome!' to a max of 2 or 3(maybe 4) units per army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hate the fact everyone has forgotten about Brother-Captain Stern, he was awesome but now Mat word it up when he created Draigo a S5 T5 W4 Space Marine who destroyed the Garden of Nurgle and carved his name into Mortarion's heart. Mat Ward can't write fluff and he should really of thought about Draigo before writing his rules.

I'm with Snikch, I'd love to have my army bumped up to 1 Eternal warrior model and more than 1 that can (reliably) cause instant death.

Skarbrand wins this match up on average. Fleshbane and insta death ftw.

jakl277 wrote:
Skarbrand wins this match up on average. Fleshbane and insta death ftw.

Evidence?

jakl277 wrote:
Skarbrand wins this match up on average. Fleshbane and insta death ftw.

I think you're neglecting the fact that the Swarmlord has an 80% chance of having Iron Arm and thus Eternal Warrior. Assuming average rolls, the Swarmlord has Iron Arm up, Skarbrand does a hefty amount of damage, and then the Swarmlord annihilates him, and that's if Skarbrand gets the charge. If the Swarmlord gets the charge a Tyrant Guard's/Tyranid Prime's Lash Whip reducing Skarbrand to Initiative 1 before the challenge and he's killed before he gets a single attack in, so even during those 1 out of 5 games where the Swarmlord doesn't have Iron Arm, proper application of screening can still allow him to beat Skarbrand.

Deathmaster Snikch wrote:I think only one unit per codex should have Eternal Warrior, like their most powerful or something.
Tyranids: The Swarmlord
Orks; Ghazghull
Necrons: Imotekh
Eldar: The Avatar
Imperial guard: Commissar Yarrick
Space Marines: Marneus Calgar (or another better HQ)
CSM: Abaddon
Grey Knights: They don't need it hell Draigo is stupidly written, I think hes a Daemon imho
Dark Angels: Azrael(I mean come on! hes freaking Supreme Grand Master)
Blood Angels: The Sanguinor(I mean hes basically Sanguinius)
Dark Eldar: Asdrubel Vect or Urien Rakarth
Sisters of Battle: Saint Celestine
Space Wolves: I know this is slightly off topic but cut them down to 2 HQ choices and no Saga of the freaking Bear. Logan Grimnir
Tau Empire: Farsight or Shadowsun (no ethereal even Aun'Shi in all his awesomeness is frail because he is an ethereal)
Daemons: Imo would be a bit OP if they got it because then all the Four Chaos God SC would get it because people would complain if it was only like Skarbrand for example.

This means only one model per Codex has Immune to Instant Death and if GW slightly decreased the amount of 'Oh! I cause Instant Death because I'm awesome!' to a max of 2 or 3(maybe 4) units per army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hate the fact everyone has forgotten about Brother-Captain Stern, he was awesome but now Mat word it up when he created Draigo a S5 T5 W4 Space Marine who destroyed the Garden of Nurgle and carved his name into Mortarion's heart. Mat Ward can't write fluff and he should really of thought about Draigo before writing his rules.

Try not to let it turn into a Ward/Draigo hate thread?

But eternal warrior is a little common place, but I think more than 1 unit per army deserves it. But a unit SHOULD deserve it, not just get it because of 'reasons'. AKA, Swarmlord should have it, because he has been killing and such for untold millenia in this galaxy and countless others. The Avatar and Phoenix Lord should have it because one is part of a God, and the others are immortal warriors who have been fighting for 10,000 years. Greater daemons should have it because they are Avatars of the Chaos gods made flesh etc.

It should not be just something people can pick up for x points (looking at your space wolves) or something that can be granted from a power. In those cases, I think it should protect from double toughness insta death, not 'I drain your soul/lifeforce to nothing' or 'i send you to the warp' instant death, like hits from swarmy, or wraithguard, or skarbrand, or husk blade etc


BUT, returning to OT, I think they are pretty even, and depend on external stimuli. For example, the tyrant guard with the swarmlord generally have lash whips, so Skarbrand goes last, or if iron arm was rolled etc. And you can't say 'with no powers' because being a psyker is a large part of the swarmlord, so you can't just ignore it... But with the 80% chance or whatever of rolling iron arm, I'm gonna have to say that Swarmlord wins most match ups, and he will die a few times when he doesn't roll.

If you meant lorewise, Swarmy would just send a couple dozen 'fexes after Skarbrand, or drown him in expendable bodies until he no longer walks the material plane. Why? Because Tyranids are tactical and smart


Von Chogg

 Deathmaster Snikch wrote:

Grey Knights: They don't need it hell Draigo is stupidly written, I think hes a Daemon imho
Dark Angels: Azrael(I mean come on! hes freaking Supreme Grand Master)

Guess who's "Supreme Grand Master", other than Azrael? But don't let common sense get in the way of your rant, by all means, carry on.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

jakl277 wrote:
Skarbrand wins this match up on average. Fleshbane and insta death ftw.

I think you're neglecting the fact that the Swarmlord has an 80% chance of having Iron Arm and thus Eternal Warrior. Assuming average rolls, the Swarmlord has Iron Arm up, Skarbrand does a hefty amount of damage, and then the Swarmlord annihilates him, and that's if Skarbrand gets the charge. If the Swarmlord gets the charge a Tyrant Guard's/Tyranid Prime's Lash Whip reducing Skarbrand to Initiative 1 before the challenge and he's killed before he gets a single attack in, so even during those 1 out of 5 games where the Swarmlord doesn't have Iron Arm, proper application of screening can still allow him to beat Skarbrand.

A 4/6 chance is 66%chance not a 80%chance...

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

jakl277 wrote:
Skarbrand wins this match up on average. Fleshbane and insta death ftw.

I think you're neglecting the fact that the Swarmlord has an 80% chance of having Iron Arm and thus Eternal Warrior. Assuming average rolls, the Swarmlord has Iron Arm up, Skarbrand does a hefty amount of damage, and then the Swarmlord annihilates him, and that's if Skarbrand gets the charge. If the Swarmlord gets the charge a Tyrant Guard's/Tyranid Prime's Lash Whip reducing Skarbrand to Initiative 1 before the challenge and he's killed before he gets a single attack in, so even during those 1 out of 5 games where the Swarmlord doesn't have Iron Arm, proper application of screening can still allow him to beat Skarbrand.

A 4/6 chance is 66%chance not a 80%chance...

Well, technically it's a 1-(5/6*4/5*3/4*2/3) chance, but yes, 66.67% . I've got my numbers confused, 80% is actually the chance of a Tervigon with 3 powers rolling either Iron Arm or Endurance. Thank you for correcting me.

Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Not really. If Skarbrand doesn't kill the Swarmlord, the Swarmlord will kill him. God Forbid the Swarmlord takes a full unit of Tyrant Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deathmaster Snikch wrote:
I think only one unit per codex should have Eternal Warrior, like their most powerful or something.
Tyranids: The Swarmlord
Orks; Ghazghull
Necrons: Imotekh
Eldar: The Avatar
Imperial guard: Commissar Yarrick
Space Marines: Marneus Calgar (or another better HQ)
CSM: Abaddon
Grey Knights: They don't need it hell Draigo is stupidly written, I think hes a Daemon imho
Dark Angels: Azrael(I mean come on! hes freaking Supreme Grand Master)
Blood Angels: The Sanguinor(I mean hes basically Sanguinius)
Dark Eldar: Asdrubel Vect or Urien Rakarth
Sisters of Battle: Saint Celestine
Space Wolves: I know this is slightly off topic but cut them down to 2 HQ choices and no Saga of the freaking Bear. Logan Grimnir
Tau Empire: Farsight or Shadowsun (no ethereal even Aun'Shi in all his awesomeness is frail because he is an ethereal)
Daemons: Imo would be a bit OP if they got it because then all the Four Chaos God SC would get it because people would complain if it was only like Skarbrand for example.

This means only one model per Codex has Immune to Instant Death and if GW slightly decreased the amount of 'Oh! I cause Instant Death because I'm awesome!' to a max of 2 or 3(maybe 4) units per army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hate the fact everyone has forgotten about Brother-Captain Stern, he was awesome but now Mat word it up when he created Draigo a S5 T5 W4 Space Marine who destroyed the Garden of Nurgle and carved his name into Mortarion's heart. Mat Ward can't write fluff and he should really of thought about Draigo before writing his rules.

Seriously? No. In fact, feth no.

The Phoenix Lords all have EW. They always have. You're going to have to deal with EW as it is now instead of making silly wishlists about things that aren't even close to broken. Anyway why the hell would SW need to be taken down to two HQ units?

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Yes, Bonesabres inflict instant death and force successful invuln saves to be re-rolled.

The Swarmlord has no usual upgrades, you can't upgrade it at all. Swarmlord is 280 points but you have to take into account that unlike Skarbrand he's not just a CC monster, but a potent psyker and force multiplier.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Yes, Bonesabres inflict instant death and force successful invuln saves to be re-rolled.

The Swarmlord has no usual upgrades, you can't upgrade it at all. Swarmlord is 280 points but you have to take into account that unlike Skarbrand he's not just a CC monster, but a potent psyker and force multiplier.

If only Skarbrand somehow buffed your CC-centric units somehow... say, by letting them reroll hits...

 McNinja wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Not really. If Skarbrand doesn't kill the Swarmlord, the Swarmlord will kill him. God Forbid the Swarmlord takes a full unit of Tyrant Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deathmaster Snikch wrote:
I think only one unit per codex should have Eternal Warrior, like their most powerful or something.
Tyranids: The Swarmlord
Orks; Ghazghull
Necrons: Imotekh
Eldar: The Avatar
Imperial guard: Commissar Yarrick
Space Marines: Marneus Calgar (or another better HQ)
CSM: Abaddon
Grey Knights: They don't need it hell Draigo is stupidly written, I think hes a Daemon imho
Dark Angels: Azrael(I mean come on! hes freaking Supreme Grand Master)
Blood Angels: The Sanguinor(I mean hes basically Sanguinius)
Dark Eldar: Asdrubel Vect or Urien Rakarth
Sisters of Battle: Saint Celestine
Space Wolves: I know this is slightly off topic but cut them down to 2 HQ choices and no Saga of the freaking Bear. Logan Grimnir
Tau Empire: Farsight or Shadowsun (no ethereal even Aun'Shi in all his awesomeness is frail because he is an ethereal)
Daemons: Imo would be a bit OP if they got it because then all the Four Chaos God SC would get it because people would complain if it was only like Skarbrand for example.

This means only one model per Codex has Immune to Instant Death and if GW slightly decreased the amount of 'Oh! I cause Instant Death because I'm awesome!' to a max of 2 or 3(maybe 4) units per army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hate the fact everyone has forgotten about Brother-Captain Stern, he was awesome but now Mat word it up when he created Draigo a S5 T5 W4 Space Marine who destroyed the Garden of Nurgle and carved his name into Mortarion's heart. Mat Ward can't write fluff and he should really of thought about Draigo before writing his rules.

Seriously? No. In fact, feth no.

The Phoenix Lords all have EW. They always have. You're going to have to deal with EW as it is now instead of making silly wishlists about things that aren't even close to broken. Anyway why the hell would SW need to be taken down to two HQ units?

I'm just trying to figure that out though. Let's say that Swarmlord has iron arm, and as such, survives scarbrand's initiative 10 attacks. Swarmlord is now at what, 6 attacks on the charge? Hitting on 4's due to scarbrand's higher weapon skill, average 3 hits. Iron arm let's him wound on 2's, so let's say it's 3 wounds. Scarbrand 5+ saves one of those, so 2 wounds.

...I don't get how Scarbrand is dead in this matchup, even if he is much cheaper points wise.

 Evileyes wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Not really. If Skarbrand doesn't kill the Swarmlord, the Swarmlord will kill him. God Forbid the Swarmlord takes a full unit of Tyrant Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deathmaster Snikch wrote:
I think only one unit per codex should have Eternal Warrior, like their most powerful or something.
Tyranids: The Swarmlord
Orks; Ghazghull
Necrons: Imotekh
Eldar: The Avatar
Imperial guard: Commissar Yarrick
Space Marines: Marneus Calgar (or another better HQ)
CSM: Abaddon
Grey Knights: They don't need it hell Draigo is stupidly written, I think hes a Daemon imho
Dark Angels: Azrael(I mean come on! hes freaking Supreme Grand Master)
Blood Angels: The Sanguinor(I mean hes basically Sanguinius)
Dark Eldar: Asdrubel Vect or Urien Rakarth
Sisters of Battle: Saint Celestine
Space Wolves: I know this is slightly off topic but cut them down to 2 HQ choices and no Saga of the freaking Bear. Logan Grimnir
Tau Empire: Farsight or Shadowsun (no ethereal even Aun'Shi in all his awesomeness is frail because he is an ethereal)
Daemons: Imo would be a bit OP if they got it because then all the Four Chaos God SC would get it because people would complain if it was only like Skarbrand for example.

This means only one model per Codex has Immune to Instant Death and if GW slightly decreased the amount of 'Oh! I cause Instant Death because I'm awesome!' to a max of 2 or 3(maybe 4) units per army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hate the fact everyone has forgotten about Brother-Captain Stern, he was awesome but now Mat word it up when he created Draigo a S5 T5 W4 Space Marine who destroyed the Garden of Nurgle and carved his name into Mortarion's heart. Mat Ward can't write fluff and he should really of thought about Draigo before writing his rules.

Seriously? No. In fact, feth no.

The Phoenix Lords all have EW. They always have. You're going to have to deal with EW as it is now instead of making silly wishlists about things that aren't even close to broken. Anyway why the hell would SW need to be taken down to two HQ units?

I'm just trying to figure that out though. Let's say that Swarmlord has iron arm, and as such, survives scarbrand's initiative 10 attacks. Swarmlord is now at what, 6 attacks on the charge? Hitting on 4's due to scarbrand's higher weapon skill, average 3 hits. Iron arm let's him wound on 2's, so let's say it's 3 wounds. Scarbrand 5+ saves one of those, so 2 wounds.

...I don't get how Scarbrand is dead in this matchup, even if he is much cheaper points wise.

Swarmlord deals 4 wounds (Hatred from Skarbrand and reroll successful 5++ means you're saving 1/9) and Swarmlord then proceeds to ID Skarbrand with his Bonesabres.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Not really. If Skarbrand doesn't kill the Swarmlord, the Swarmlord will kill him. God Forbid the Swarmlord takes a full unit of Tyrant Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deathmaster Snikch wrote:
I think only one unit per codex should have Eternal Warrior, like their most powerful or something.
Tyranids: The Swarmlord
Orks; Ghazghull
Necrons: Imotekh
Eldar: The Avatar
Imperial guard: Commissar Yarrick
Space Marines: Marneus Calgar (or another better HQ)
CSM: Abaddon
Grey Knights: They don't need it hell Draigo is stupidly written, I think hes a Daemon imho
Dark Angels: Azrael(I mean come on! hes freaking Supreme Grand Master)
Blood Angels: The Sanguinor(I mean hes basically Sanguinius)
Dark Eldar: Asdrubel Vect or Urien Rakarth
Sisters of Battle: Saint Celestine
Space Wolves: I know this is slightly off topic but cut them down to 2 HQ choices and no Saga of the freaking Bear. Logan Grimnir
Tau Empire: Farsight or Shadowsun (no ethereal even Aun'Shi in all his awesomeness is frail because he is an ethereal)
Daemons: Imo would be a bit OP if they got it because then all the Four Chaos God SC would get it because people would complain if it was only like Skarbrand for example.

This means only one model per Codex has Immune to Instant Death and if GW slightly decreased the amount of 'Oh! I cause Instant Death because I'm awesome!' to a max of 2 or 3(maybe 4) units per army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hate the fact everyone has forgotten about Brother-Captain Stern, he was awesome but now Mat word it up when he created Draigo a S5 T5 W4 Space Marine who destroyed the Garden of Nurgle and carved his name into Mortarion's heart. Mat Ward can't write fluff and he should really of thought about Draigo before writing his rules.

Seriously? No. In fact, feth no.

The Phoenix Lords all have EW. They always have. You're going to have to deal with EW as it is now instead of making silly wishlists about things that aren't even close to broken. Anyway why the hell would SW need to be taken down to two HQ units?

I'm just trying to figure that out though. Let's say that Swarmlord has iron arm, and as such, survives scarbrand's initiative 10 attacks. Swarmlord is now at what, 6 attacks on the charge? Hitting on 4's due to scarbrand's higher weapon skill, average 3 hits. Iron arm let's him wound on 2's, so let's say it's 3 wounds. Scarbrand 5+ saves one of those, so 2 wounds.

...I don't get how Scarbrand is dead in this matchup, even if he is much cheaper points wise.

Swarmlord deals 4 wounds (Hatred from Skarbrand and reroll successful 5++ means you're saving 1/9) and Swarmlord then proceeds to ID Skarbrand with his Bonesabres.

E'yep, that's what I was missing, diddn't know the sabres caused instant death. Then yep, swarmlord would win. But hey, you would expect him too being so much more, points wise.

Now, let's all imagine the hilarity of what would happen if scarbrand could be a biomancy psyker....

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Yes, Bonesabres inflict instant death and force successful invuln saves to be re-rolled.

The Swarmlord has no usual upgrades, you can't upgrade it at all. Swarmlord is 280 points but you have to take into account that unlike Skarbrand he's not just a CC monster, but a potent psyker and force multiplier.

If only Skarbrand somehow buffed your CC-centric units somehow... say, by letting them reroll hits...

Skarbrand - CC monster, grants nearby units Hatred, even enemy units.
Swarmlord - CC monster, mastery level 2 psyker with 4 powers to choose from, all friendly units within 18" are Fearless, All enemy units within 12" add a d6 to their psychic tests, +1 to reserve rolls, re-roll to determine board edge of outflanking unit, can grant Preferred Enemy or Furious Charge to a unit within 18" for a turn at the beginning of your shooting phase.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Yes, Bonesabres inflict instant death and force successful invuln saves to be re-rolled.

The Swarmlord has no usual upgrades, you can't upgrade it at all. Swarmlord is 280 points but you have to take into account that unlike Skarbrand he's not just a CC monster, but a potent psyker and force multiplier.

If only Skarbrand somehow buffed your CC-centric units somehow... say, by letting them reroll hits...

Skarbrand - CC monster, grants nearby units Hatred, even enemy units.
Swarmlord - CC monster, mastery level 2 psyker with 4 powers to choose from, all friendly units within 18" are Fearless, All enemy units within 12" add a d6 to their psychic tests, +1 to reserve rolls, re-roll to determine board edge of outflanking unit, can grant Preferred Enemy or Furious Charge to a unit within 18" for a turn at the beginning of your shooting phase.

Yeah, the Swarmlord is waayyy more than just a close combat monster. He is THE Hive Tyrant, and his rules reflect as such. He just happens to also be one of the arguably best CC units in the game too...


Von Chogg

 PrinceRaven wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Yes, Bonesabres inflict instant death and force successful invuln saves to be re-rolled.

The Swarmlord has no usual upgrades, you can't upgrade it at all. Swarmlord is 280 points but you have to take into account that unlike Skarbrand he's not just a CC monster, but a potent psyker and force multiplier.

If only Skarbrand somehow buffed your CC-centric units somehow... say, by letting them reroll hits...

Skarbrand - CC monster, grants nearby units Hatred, even enemy units.
Swarmlord - CC monster, mastery level 2 psyker with 4 powers to choose from, all friendly units within 18" are Fearless, All enemy units within 12" add a d6 to their psychic tests, +1 to reserve rolls, re-roll to determine board edge of outflanking unit, can grant Preferred Enemy or Furious Charge to a unit within 18" for a turn at the beginning of your shooting phase.

You said Skarbrand was purely a CC monster, I proved you wrong. Degrees of synergy is irrelevant to the argument being argued.

 Evileyes wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Not really. If Skarbrand doesn't kill the Swarmlord, the Swarmlord will kill him. God Forbid the Swarmlord takes a full unit of Tyrant Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deathmaster Snikch wrote:
I think only one unit per codex should have Eternal Warrior, like their most powerful or something.
Tyranids: The Swarmlord
Orks; Ghazghull
Necrons: Imotekh
Eldar: The Avatar
Imperial guard: Commissar Yarrick
Space Marines: Marneus Calgar (or another better HQ)
CSM: Abaddon
Grey Knights: They don't need it hell Draigo is stupidly written, I think hes a Daemon imho
Dark Angels: Azrael(I mean come on! hes freaking Supreme Grand Master)
Blood Angels: The Sanguinor(I mean hes basically Sanguinius)
Dark Eldar: Asdrubel Vect or Urien Rakarth
Sisters of Battle: Saint Celestine
Space Wolves: I know this is slightly off topic but cut them down to 2 HQ choices and no Saga of the freaking Bear. Logan Grimnir
Tau Empire: Farsight or Shadowsun (no ethereal even Aun'Shi in all his awesomeness is frail because he is an ethereal)
Daemons: Imo would be a bit OP if they got it because then all the Four Chaos God SC would get it because people would complain if it was only like Skarbrand for example.

This means only one model per Codex has Immune to Instant Death and if GW slightly decreased the amount of 'Oh! I cause Instant Death because I'm awesome!' to a max of 2 or 3(maybe 4) units per army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hate the fact everyone has forgotten about Brother-Captain Stern, he was awesome but now Mat word it up when he created Draigo a S5 T5 W4 Space Marine who destroyed the Garden of Nurgle and carved his name into Mortarion's heart. Mat Ward can't write fluff and he should really of thought about Draigo before writing his rules.

Seriously? No. In fact, feth no.

The Phoenix Lords all have EW. They always have. You're going to have to deal with EW as it is now instead of making silly wishlists about things that aren't even close to broken. Anyway why the hell would SW need to be taken down to two HQ units?

I'm just trying to figure that out though. Let's say that Swarmlord has iron arm, and as such, survives scarbrand's initiative 10 attacks. Swarmlord is now at what, 6 attacks on the charge? Hitting on 4's due to scarbrand's higher weapon skill, average 3 hits. Iron arm let's him wound on 2's, so let's say it's 3 wounds. Scarbrand 5+ saves one of those, so 2 wounds.

...I don't get how Scarbrand is dead in this matchup, even if he is much cheaper points wise.

The Swarmlord's attacks inflict Instant Death. So those 2 wounds mean that Skarbrand is now dead.