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First things first, apologies if this is in the wrong place.

I've seen very little critical analysis of the various captains and ships thus far, and figured we should get the ball rolling.

Captain Picard- All around best captain in the game so far. The ability to put the Galaxy's action bar on any ship in the game is pretty killer. Picard will only get better the more ships come out.

Captain Kirk- With every federation pilot upgrade that comes out, Kirk will get better. Right now, I don't think there are enough federation upgrades to make him amazing, but a well placed surprise can turn the game right around. Right now, I think Kirk requires more in-game skill to use effectively than say, Picard.

Reliant Khan- Sure, go ahead and use any upgrades in the game with no penalty. Also, your battle stations turn into crits. If you're a min/maxer, Reliant Khan is an amazing captain. On a ship like TOS Enterprise, he'll save you 6-8 points if used to his greatest effect.

Clark Terrell- Good support character, aggressively costed. If you're trying to cram 3-4 ships in, I'd consider running him in the Reliant with Photon Torpedoes.

Christopher Pike- A captain I'd like to try out in a 3-4 ship list. He benefits from ships with large crew/upgrade slots. If you want to run a ship full of mans such as Sulu, Spock, Scotty and Uhura, Pike may be your man.

That's what I've got so far. Go ahead and add your own analysis, strategies.

I think Gawron has been looked over on a lot of the forums I have seen. IIRC he gives +1attack to all Klingon ships within range 1-2. Considering that klingons already have some of the highest attack numbers so far and their tractor beams he could prove a challenge in games of 2-4 ships.

Gowron seems pretty good, and will probably get significantly better once we see the Bird of Prey. I figure they'll be about 15-18pts each and a swarm of them will be deadly.

I think some of the less known captains are a bit of a bargan. The romulans mirok can repair a hull point or a shield if another friendly ship is within range 1, for only 2 points he is not bad at all.

Also one of the breen captaons, Sar, is only one point and gives his ship an extra defense die which is fantastic for 1 point.


Among the big names I think martock is really cool giving a free action to a friendly within range1-2.

I can't wait to see what Sisko and the defiant can do.

I want Riker to be better than it is, but I feel like his ability is more synergistic with Plasma Torpedoes than Photon Torpedoes. You want Riker right up in the thick of it, but you also want him to be able to pack the most punch while there. Any good Riker builds that anyone has seen yet?

So far I'd rank the captains as follows:

Picard
Kirk
Khan
Terell
Gowron

Any strong disagreements?

I would put martok and toreth above terell. Terell is a bargan but some one you put on a 2nd or 3rd ship. The others on the list would more likely be on your main ship.

I do agree that I would like to see more from riker.

I havn't really developed any skill with this game yet but it looks fantastic and I like the turn system. I appreciate a more beer and pretzels approach than the old SFB game. What do you gents think about creating stats and cards to use with the old SFB minis? Because they are certainly in scale (awesome).

Being more thread relevant. I didn't notice but is there a limit on how many captains you can use in your fleet? Can you use Khan and Kirk at the same time?

- J

 necrondog99 wrote:
I havn't really developed any skill with this game yet but it looks fantastic and I like the turn system. I appreciate a more beer and pretzels approach than the old SFB game. What do you gents think about creating stats and cards to use with the old SFB minis? Because they are certainly in scale (awesome).

Being more thread relevant. I didn't notice but is there a limit on how many captains you can use in your fleet? Can you use Khan and Kirk at the same time?

- J

First off the game is fantastic and second I don't think you would have any problem using other ship models. I bought an extra old school enterprize to put the stargazer on. You could really put what ever ship you want on the base. Though I don't think you need to make up rules, there are so many ships out now with more on the way so just pick the stats you like best for your models. Just as I am using galaxy class rules for my nebula class ships until they release rules for them. There are even rules for mixing factions so if you find a ship you like you just pay a small point fee and you can take it.


To the second question you can have as many captains as you have ships. Each ship must have a captain either a generic one for free or you pay points for a named one. So yes you can have both kirk and khan if you have two ships.

Someone has made a sortable card spoiler on BGG. Go and pick it up.

Continuing on with more Captain analysis...

Riker- I like this card. I really want to make it work. I think it is nicely costed for what it does, and the skill ensures that he will still get to attack before most other captains in the game. I wouldn't want him on my Galaxy, but I'd throw him on the Constitution over the Miranda, as I think you want him to stick around as long as possible in the middle of everything. I think if he had a talent he'd be almost too good for his cost (see- Cheat Death).

Klingon

Koloth- Koloth has a talent and one extra pilot skill. The talent opens up interesting abilities, but I think the stock Klingon talents are weak. Overall, I think the cards that let you discard an opponent's upgrades will be rarely used and are very situational. The ship that you use it on has its shields down... why wouldn't I take an aggressive action, and try to finish them off? Very situational and I think their overall weakness is why they are costed so low. Expect to see fewer of these upgrades as time goes on. As it stands, Koloth is a reliable, middle of the road captain. He will not affect your opponent's play, but you may be able to keep a ship around a turn or two longer when using him.

Nu'Daq- Blech. For one point more, take Koloth or Gowron. I don't expect to see Nu'Daq get a lot of play once players get access to the other klingons in the game.

Krell- Even worse than Nu'Daq. I suppose these capts are decent for when you're squeaking pts out of a list, but they will not be capts that you build around. Keep them in mind for the future though... Birds of Preys are going to be cheap, and these guys are going to be cheap, aggressive captains.

Martok- Martok is the highest pilot skill on the klingon side, with a very good ability. You want him right in the think of your battle group. All klingon capts will have a lower pilot skill (probably until they make Worf a klingon capt). Martok is a beast. He moves last, and can shell out actions to ships that have already moved. If you're going heavy klingon, go Martok.

Gowron- Looking at Gowron again, I may actually want Koloth over him. Gowron is great for Alpha strikes and finishers, but his ability is an action. Generally, with the wealth of crew actions, you want to have a captain that provides an always on ability.

I have to disagree with you on Nu'Daq & krell.their captain skills are not great but the bigger klingon ships can not perform battle stations so krell's reroll and Nu'Daq's ability is very helpful. Klingons have a lot of attacks but then need them to go through because they generally don't have the shields or defense dice that the federation/romulands get. So these two captain can get you an extra hit when you need it the most and you don't have to spend an action for it or big points for something like "forward disruptor banks". Just my two cents.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
I have to disagree with you on Nu'Daq & krell.their captain skills are not great but the bigger klingon ships can not perform battle stations so krell's reroll and Nu'Daq's ability is very helpful. Klingons have a lot of attacks but then need them to go through because they generally don't have the shields or defense dice that the federation/romulands get. So these two captain can get you an extra hit when you need it the most and you don't have to spend an action for it or big points for something like "forward disruptor banks". Just my two cents.

Perfectly reasonable assessment. If you've played with the Klingons, then your input is worth more than mine. If you're going full Klingon, you don't have many choices anyway. I think you always take Martok at least, and work your way down. On the Negh'Var, I think you almost always want Martok. The big ship is more likely to survive and move around into various positions

Anyway, I'd rank the Klingon commanders as follows

1. Martok
2. Koloth
3. Gowron
4. Nu'Daq
5. Krell

-Gordash
I think you have it a little backwards. You want to take them on the Vorcha. The Vorcha can not perform battle stations so that is where they come in handy. if you roll a battle station mark with Nu'Daq he turns one of them into a hit. If you put him on a D-7 and did a battle station as your action it would be a little redundant, because the action already turns battle station marks into hits. Same thing with Krell, he lets you re-roll a battle station die result. If you used the battle station action why and why would you want to re-roll it.

This is why they are better on the Vorcha vlass, their respective abilities are not as good as the battle stations action but it helps make up for the fact that the vorcha can not do it at all. D-7s can already go to battle stations so the two of them would be wasted on their, but yes you are right martok or Gawron should be on the neg'var.

Yeah, I was confusing a lot of things lol. I suppose I was still right about the limited uses of Krell and Nu'Daq, but was wrong on the why of it.

Gordash wrote:
Yeah, I was confusing a lot of things lol.

LOL, it happens to all of us. I think they are both worth their points, as I have seen you read the other thread too. Using the two of them together works well. The only problem is that everyone will attack before you, so I really have to think about my move and plan to survive until my attacks. Thank Kahless for cloaking.

Continuing on with the Romulans and with less Derp (hopefully). Of course, I'm mostly comparing Captains to Captains, and not necessarily Captains +Ships to Captains + Ships. The whole endeavour is a bit academic, but so far, Attack wing is more Scenario focused than X-wing. Different scenarios will require different builds. It's good to have a general idea of the usefulness of the Captains regardless of ships and other upgrades so that you can tailor your list to the scenario.

Toreth- Toreth upgrades a damage result to a critical result. He's skill 7 and is the best the Romulans have to offer in that domain. He gets a pilot talent, and this will almost always be counter attack. Counter attack is good. From where I'm sitting, Toreth with Counter attack is really good, giving you the possibility of multiple attacks per round. Toreth is probably best in a Valdore.

Donatra- Romulan lists will probably not be ship heavy. The problem is that two of their ships are 30pts each. Donatra gets better with every ship in the list, but practically, it is likely that you'll only have 1/2 ships within range 1 of your ship and any given time. So, Donatra looks good on paper, and will probably end up giving one other ship one extra attack die. If you're trying to squeak out extra attack die, and who isn't, Donatra is a decent captain, but on paper, I like Toreth better.

Tomalak- Tomalak's ability is very situational, and will probably result in a handful of uses. Combine him with scan tokens, and you may have something but overall meh. His cost may be right for some lists, however.

Mirok- Mirok would be best paired with Donatra. Generally, you want to promote synergy as much as possible. Mirok and Donatra have great reasons for being in the same area as each other. Otherwise, I think Mirok is pretty meh.

Is that really it for the Romulans? Would you put any of these captains in a top five captain list? I wouldn't. If you've had good success with these, and think I'm full of BS, let me know, but Compare Terell with either Tomalak and Mirok and I think Terell, with his worse pilot skill comes out on top. is Terell aggressively costed- yes. Are these captains? No.

I think Toreth could squeak into 5th place on the captain list. She has good captain skill, nice ability, and not bad on points. As for the rest I agree lack luster and very situational. I only hope that down the road they release Sela, Tash Yar's half romulan daughter. Some original series romulans would be cool too, but for now I think Toreth will be commanding a lot of fleets.

I suppose the only value of a top 5 would be in whether the top 5 would also still be top 5 if they were one point more. Any captain that is still better at +1 than a captain that you're considering including is the captain that you should include.

So, if you think that Picard at +1 is better than Toreth in a D'Derex, then you should take Picard. That is the kind of captain that should make it on that list. Is Picard, at 7pts, better than Toreth at 4pts? What would be the cost of a crew card/upgrade that gives you one free action per turn? Would it be 1 point? 2? 3? How much would Toreth cost if he were skill 9? Probably at least 5pts. What would a skill 9, one talent captain cost? I can't imagine a crew member who allows you one free action being less than 3 pts. As a result, I think Picard's ability is undercosted.

I've been thinking some more re: Kirk. Kirk actually costs, at a minimum 14pts. If you're taking Kirk, you should also take the two surprise talents, otherwise, why take Kirk? So is Kirk still great at 15 pts on a D'Derex, over Toreth at 4 pts? I don't think he is 11 pts better than Toreth.

Using this analysis, I don't think Kirk makes an overall top 5.

Ok I can see that counter attack is good, but from the way I read it and the book you still have to declare it as your action for that round right?

I'd rank the Klingons as follows:

1. Martok
2. Koloth
3. Nu'Daq
4. Krell
5. Gowron

Actions as so crucial to this game and thus Martok ranks top because he gives a free action and Gowron ranks bottom because he costs an action. The other three do things that do not require an action. Koloth makes his ship harder to hit against any number of attackers so will be crucial versus swarms and so deserves second place. Nu'Daq for sure turns a Battle Stations into a hit and Krell does possibly so they respectively receive third and forth.

Gowron deserves bottom because he eats that action that is better spent on cloaking, Target Lock, Evade, or Sensor Echo.

Anyone else notice that every single ship is costed as follows:

1 point in any category = 2pts

So the Enterprise D with 14 points across all categories = 28 pts.

I was trying to determine how the points of the ships were determined, but it's really that simple.

I think Gowron will really exceptionally shine in a swarm squad, such as six D7 cruisers. Suddenly, five of those ships go from 3 attack to 4. In such a squad, Gowron and his bugged-out eyes rule.

 DeathwingCrusader wrote:
I think Gowron will really exceptionally shine in a swarm squad, such as six D7 cruisers. Suddenly, five of those ships go from 3 attack to 4. In such a squad, Gowron and his bugged-out eyes rule.

I agree Gowron has his uses, but like many of captains he is situational. If you have one or two ships he is not that good, but if you have a good size fleet he can be pretty awsome.

And finally, the Dominion. So far, the Dominion has the least number of ships, captains and upgrades. The Gor Portas is a really interesting ship with 4 weapons slots, but I think that's overkill. Anyway, on to the Captains.

Gul Ranor- Skill 5, cost 3, you get to perform a 1 or 2 straight and then get an auxiliary token. There isn't much to see here. Gul Ranor isn't very flashy. He takes up an action, and your next movement has to be a green to get rid of the token. I don't see him making a lot of lists, but he could be a decent captain of a low point dominion ship at some point in the future. He will lend himself to ships with no crew and one weapon.

Gul Danar- Skill 3, cost 2, re-roll a blank hit. Did they mean to make these cardassians underwhelming? I'd expect one of them to at least have a pilot talent. Something called "5 Lights". Anyway, again, I don't see either of these guys being great on a Galor. I'd prefer if one of these Cardassians had a way to mitigate damage- which would be synergistic with the Kraxon. Oh well.

Toth Gor- Skill 6, cost 4, weapons are -1. You'll see this guy and put him on your Gor Portas. You'll load up your Gor Portas with 4 weapons. You'll wonder why your Gor Portas costs so much. You'll wonder why your Gor Portas is gone halfway through the game, and then you'll look at the Kraxon all alone and wonder where your list went. In my opinion, you take Toth Gor because he's pilot skill 6 and is the best the Dominion has to offer.

Sar- skill 2, cost 1, you get an extra defense die when defending. I like Sar. I like how low cost he is. I like that he makes your Gor Portas agility 3, which lets it get up close to fire the dissipator. I like that Sar will move first, not collide with anyone and get an action. Overall, Sar is pretty good.

Conclusion- The dominion captains are middle of the road. Toth looks like he's a good fit for the Portas, and in some scenarios, maybe he is. In a deathmatch, he's underwhelming, but none of the tournaments are deathmatches so far!

So the captains are done. It's hard to come up with a top 5, because so much of Attack wing is scenario focused. I expect to see most lists trying to fit in Picard on their main ships, because he's so good, even at 7 points.

There are a few new captains up on BGG, and i'll take a look later on in the day, and post some thoughts. Also, I am in no way putting myself out there as an expert on any of this. I want to get the ball rolling on the analysis of the game. If you think I'm full of crap, lets talk about it. The game is so new that there are bound to be strategies, tactics, builds and approaches that I haven't thought of yet.

I think you are doing alright so far. A lot of attack wing is going to come down to scenario. It is a shame about the dominion so far, but wayoun in october and hopefully Gul Ducot in December will help out a lot.though so far I think it is spot on in the trek univers though the superior federation captains using their skill and crew to over come superior alien forces. It has everything you want.

New Captains!

Benjamin Sisko- Skill 6, 4pts, once per round, reroll any one attack or defence die. A flexible middle of the road captain. He also gets a talent slot, which skill 6 captains don't often get. So far, I'm liking Sisko. The defiant is definitely a ship I'm going to be picking up.

Sisko on the defiant with attack pattern omega for the win.

I think after october 16th we will see captain valdor (from praetus expansion) in a lot of lists. 3 pts captain skill 5 and an awsome ability that does not use an action. Say hello to the new captain of my valdor ship. Hello Picard the romulans have a gun boat now.

I see chang from the kronos one expansion becoming really popular in a lot of klingon lists. 4 pts and spend a target lock to disable someone's captain is big. The fact that chang is skill 6 actually helpful because he can disable folks like that pesky picard. So the ship would have to wast its action to re enable picard and picard only allows the basic things as his free action. I see chang as being the key to negating the picard, sulu, spock combo.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
I see chang from the kronos one expansion becoming really popular in a lot of klingon lists. 4 pts and spend a target lock to disable someone's captain is big. The fact that chang is skill 6 actually helpful because he can disable folks like that pesky picard. So the ship would have to wast its action to re enable picard and picard only allows the basic things as his free action. I see chang as being the key to negating the picard, sulu, spock combo.

Disagree on Chang completely. This was a huge, major let-down for me: you must spend a valuable Target Lock and an action to deny the enemy one action. I see this as completely in your enemy's favour. Totally and completely. Opponent spends one action to enable Picard and then Picard gets his free action. Complete win for the opponent. You are both down an action but you have now also lost your Target Lock. Oh, and Picard shoots first because he's a skill 9 and Chang is a crappy 6. Koloth and Martok are better skilled captains and neither's text wastes an action.

Chang's card was a total let-down for me. I was hoping for a skill of 7 or 8 and text that allowed your ship to fire and remain cloaked. Chang is one of my favourite Klingons - Christopher Plummer did an awesome job portraying him - and he deserved a much better card than what he got. His use as it is now actually favours your opponent!

 DeathwingCrusader wrote:

Disagree on Chang completely. This was a huge, major let-down for me: you must spend a valuable Target Lock and an action to deny the enemy one action. I see this as completely in your enemy's favour. Totally and completely. Opponent spends one action to enable Picard and then Picard gets his free action. Complete win for the opponent. You are both down an action but you have now also lost your Target Lock. Oh, and Picard shoots first because he's a skill 9 and Chang is a crappy 6. Koloth and Martok are better skilled captains and neither's text wastes an action.

Chang's card was a total let-down for me. I was hoping for a skill of 7 or 8 and text that allowed your ship to fire and remain cloaked. Chang is one of my favourite Klingons - Christopher Plummer did an awesome job portraying him - and he deserved a much better card than what he got. His use as it is now actually favours your opponent!

I think you are missing the point. What makes picard so awsome is the ability for the ship to activate a crew action and picard to activate a standard action. Picard can only scan, target lock, battle stations, & evade. So if the ship uses its action to re enable picard so they can shoot first they have to give up sulu which in most games I have played and watched is what keeps the enterprise d alive. The big D gets chewed up with only one defend die it needs sulu to survive. Chang is going to make people choose shot first or live. In a standard 100 pt game with two other ships backing up chang he will be huge. In a smaller 40 pt one ship game he would be wasted. With only one defend die and 2-3 big klingon ships firing the D is going down in one turn. I call that a big deal.
After the D is out of action the klingons can handle anything else the federation has.

oh and chang doesn't have to have any range to disable the captain, just spend his target lock, so if he is out of range to shoot, why not do it?