Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was playing Cygnar and my brother was playing trollbloods.

It really seemed throughout the whole game the defense and armor really didn't mean that much as each time someone attacked it was placing damage on the card.

To make it worse, it seemed like the Cygnar army could just walk forward and destroy the trolls.

Is the game a little unbalanced where hits are always powerful? Are heavies the begining and end of the game? Are trolls supposed to be tough? Or are the battle boxes just horrible?

We are both thinking of stopping playing because it seems unbalanced to POW centric armies as they can kill things very easily.



It also seems that taking a lot of heavies destroys the enemies as they have POW armor to stay alive and destroy anything.

Just seems so unbalanced.

Battle Box's are nowhere near reflective of how truly balanced the game is. They are really there to get the rules down.

The other issue you are running into is that Hordes requires more beasts (for fury) and Trolls in particular need there support staff (buffs, animus and such) to truly shine.

Cygnars battle box isnt the greatest, pStrykers gimmick is using the arcnode to sling Earthquake. Make taking out the Lancer your priority and it should get easier to deal with Stryker as he will have to come closer to you and that puts him into your threat range.......

Good Luck and dont give up.

What about the heavy question? It seems if you have one and your opponent doesn't..then you will win...and if they have one and you don't they will win.


also, it seems most things always hit and then do a ton of damage making armor and defense almost useless.

Every time my guys shot or took a swing it connected and did a lot damage...same thing with his trolls.

Again, just seems a little unbalanced if defense and armor are basically useless to most enemies.

J0kerrMT wrote:
What about the heavy question? It seems if you have one and your opponent doesn't..then you will win...and if they have one and you don't they will win.


also, it seems most things always hit and then do a ton of damage making armor and defense almost useless.

ever meet doom reavers?

you dont need heavies to kill enemy heavies (although its an extremely valid tactic). how about charging weapon master infantry? 6 doom reavers will kill most heavies in the game with a charge.

also, most things dont always hit. or do a ton of damage. you're exaggerating here.

do the math. average 2d6 roll is a 7. average mat is 6-7. yaverage def is about 13. ou'll hit about half the time, on averages. hitting about half the time is far from 'always hitting'. then factor in higher def models, and spells that buff defense and avoiding hits through high def is a valid trick to play. try dealing with a khador army with naturally high ARM, and def17! arm also is reasonable, especially when you factor in arm buffs like defensive ward. also, factor in the positioning game. if you are screening your heavies with infantry, he cant really get to them to apply damage, can he?

your troll playing brother should have a look what borka could do with a few krielstone bearers, and some champions as an example of how def and arm do work (picture 6 medium based models-def15, arm20, 8hits each, and tough on top of that! it takes a hell of a lot to get through them.

defence and armour are valid hurdles to get over, but at the end of the day, this game is very much about damage output over survival. everything can be oneturned. this was mentioned to you during your opening threads here

remember - the starting sets are all about helping you learn the game. alsoi, hordes v warmachine starter games can be tricky due to their differing natures. if it helps, look to the journeyman rules - your brother has access to the trollbloods alternative starter too - doomshaper and 2 heavies.

You have Stryker. ..throw an arcane shielded, feat turned centurion out there and and you'll see how high armour can be useful.

1) The battle boxes are a pretty terrible representation of the game, especially the troll box, due to the fact that they lack a heavy. Most armies will use at least 1-2 heavys, to crack the enemys armor. If they dont, the usually have other ways to destroy or mitigate them ( weaponmaster infantry). Funnily enough, in battle box games, heavies are rather strong, due to the fact that all enemies the encounter are the things they love to fight.

2) Warmahordes is a very lethal game, most things will do a lot of damage if they connect. The trick is, that you dont let them connect in the first place That does in no way mean that defense stats are useless, it just means that stuff dies easier than you might think

3) You only use the battle boxes, wich means that you only use a extremly limited part of the game. You will only comprehend the whole game if you use stuff like infantry, solos and different castes/ jacks/ beasts

Heavies are generally the big damage dealers, Lights are there to supply certain special tricks and finesse ( and in hordes, lights are especially good for providing useful animi). Even when you start getting more heavies and infantry, you'll still find yourself reaching for an Axer or Implaler quite often, for their animus and abilities.

Trollbloods in the battlebox do lack a heavy (and I do think they should have one), and their caster is more about killing infantry (the feat is beautiful against infantry heavy lists), but they can still trash the Ironclad well enough. I know the battlebox games I played against Trolls never felt too one sided (though he did have to gang up on my heavy to trash it). However, you can often end Battlebox games without having to trash the heavy. You have two long ranged attacks (with Snipe) with decent POW, so skirmishing and assassination usually work best, even against Cygnar, and those shots come with critical slam to boot (and if you just knock the heavy down and back a few inches each turn, it's far less of a threat). Plus, thanks to Rush and Reach on all models, Trollbloods should always get the Alpha strike in this match up too.

Don't forget to use Trolls Regeneration ability, and the natural ability of Hordes models to heal using Fury, to grind out the ranged game against the Charger, and put some damage on his other models.

What Maddermax said is something, i forgot to mention. Remember this is not 40k, you most often dont choose your pieces due to their combat prowress, but more often than not for there special abilitys and flexibilty. Lights are support pieces and not ment to destroy everything they touch. But to call them useless or underpowered would be like calling my toaster useless or underpowered , because it cant make coffee

The heavy shouldn't be an issue.... It's slow and doesnt have a ranged attack, ignore and go around it or sacrifice a model to tie it up and go around it.

the Trollblood box is worse than the others for giving a feel for the game, they have 2 infantry shredders (good in 25+ point games, the starter boxes are close to 11) and 2 average gun beasts and nothing who's purpose is buffing. Trolls are a synergy faction most other armies take 1 or 2 support pieces, Trolls take 3+. Also the models in the Troll starter don't mesh and lack a wrecker. Impalers are there for +4 Rng to be applied to a better gun (Dire bomber is a popular target) and the warlock and Axer slaughter infantry, They can all dent a heavy but the heavies in the other starters can all wreck a heavy with nothing but 3 focus leaving 2 lights and the caster still around meanwhile the trolls need to apply at least 2 beasts to one round a heavy.

One possible fix would be to swap an Impaler for a Slag troll that would make it 11 vs. 11 points and give the Trolls a heavy hitter. Also remember a beast can cast its own animus by forcing and if the spell/animus has a RNG they can still target themselves. I admit this shouldn't be necessary but the starters are old, I believe 2 expansions, a new edition and 2 more expansion books have drooped since they were released. In MK1 They were probably balanced but MK2 threw it off, Cryx is 14 points, Legion is 13 (but easily adjustable to 11) points and the Trolls are only 10 and lack a heavy, all the rest are 11 points.

Once you start getting beyond the battlebox things will be much more balanced.

Here's a 25 point troll list that is based on the battlebox.

Madrak
-Axer
-Impaler
-EBDT
-Trollkin Runebearer

min Krielstone bearer unit
Janissa Stonetide
Whelps

Thanks for all the excellent replies. My opponent bought a dire troll, but is still working on a winning strategy for the battle box.

One more quick question: Trolls have the regenerate ability...how many times can they cast it? Example: Can a troll cast it twice on himself in row during the same turn at the cost of two fury generation?

It says it on the card, lemme just get war room out...

"once per activation", on the second line of the rule. You also can't use it when you run.

And it isn't 'cast', its 'forced', I know that's probably what you meant, but it makes a difference for some peoples feats and special rules and what not, they may deny your ability to cast spells or something but allow you to force, or vice versa.

You can use it before you run iirc. You just can't use it or anything after you run cause your activation ends immediately

No, Regeneration explicitly denies its use if you run during your activation. It says so right on the card.

Ah, then yes. If it explicitly says so then it can't be used.