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List building is still making me crabby, because I feel like the newly developing meta damn near begs for the Elimination Maniple, and its being so expensive to field in a battle-forged list, but I will say that on the flip-side, I keep seeing people on other forums writing it off now that we know it went from "broken too OP", to "very good" thanks to the targeting caveat.

Considering how common it will be to see an allied Auspex on the table, and how Canticles of the Omnissiah make the Kastelan's BS3 less irksome, I don't know how it isn't still one of the coolest things we've seen in a while.

Even in MSU Kastelan would be shooting 12-18 Phosphor shots (six TL), re-rolling 1s, 1s and 2s, or all shots, and wounding most scary bikes and such on 2's or 3's, AP3.

If you even do ONE wound from that, the rest of your formation is +1BS, STILL re-rolling 1s/2s/all misses (now moot), and is ignoring cover.

If that isn't enough to shift heavily entrenched, armored, etc... targets, I don't know what is.

And that just makes up a chunk (albeit a sizable one) of a shooty force capable of dropping more Haywire than anything in the game (especially when taking into account Skitarii), who likewise have basic troop guns that do shockingly well against MCs (thanks to Rad Carbines SR).

I'd still kill for access to basic transports for the Skitarii side of things, but all in all, if we take a wide view, and consider the likelihood of AdMech becoming a combined book in the future, I think this is an amazing faction with loads of cool toys and options.

Just opened the White Dwarf and.....holy crap I want to run the triple detachment formation. Free upgrades (so 55 points for a 5 man Vanguard squad with 2 plsmas that don't get hot!!!!), canticles for everyone!!!! A knight that gets his carapace weapon for free!!!! Plus I can't even think about how much stuff I can cram on the tech priest since he can fire everything each turn. Man I can't wait for my order to come in. Plan on running a 1000 points of this (yeah, it fits....becuase of the free upgrades) for a team tourney next month!!!!

spaztacus wrote:
Just opened the White Dwarf and.....holy crap I want to run the triple detachment formation. Free upgrades (so 55 points for a 5 man Vanguard squad with 2 plsmas that don't get hot!!!!), canticles for everyone!!!! A knight that gets his carapace weapon for free!!!! Plus I can't even think about how much stuff I can cram on the tech priest since he can fire everything each turn. Man I can't wait for my order to come in. Plan on running a 1000 points of this (yeah, it fits....becuase of the free upgrades) for a team tourney next month!!!!

It doesnt fit into 1000, comes to 1300 or so.

Think one of every unit and that is what you will need to field.

 Wilson wrote:

spaztacus wrote:
Just opened the White Dwarf and.....holy crap I want to run the triple detachment formation. Free upgrades (so 55 points for a 5 man Vanguard squad with 2 plsmas that don't get hot!!!!), canticles for everyone!!!! A knight that gets his carapace weapon for free!!!! Plus I can't even think about how much stuff I can cram on the tech priest since he can fire everything each turn. Man I can't wait for my order to come in. Plan on running a 1000 points of this (yeah, it fits....becuase of the free upgrades) for a team tourney next month!!!!

It doesnt fit into 1000, comes to 1300 or so.

Did we get confirmation as to what the Cult Mechanicus detachment consists of?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

spaztacus wrote:
Just opened the White Dwarf and.....holy crap I want to run the triple detachment formation. Free upgrades (so 55 points for a 5 man Vanguard squad with 2 plsmas that don't get hot!!!!), canticles for everyone!!!! A knight that gets his carapace weapon for free!!!! Plus I can't even think about how much stuff I can cram on the tech priest since he can fire everything each turn. Man I can't wait for my order to come in. Plan on running a 1000 points of this (yeah, it fits....becuase of the free upgrades) for a team tourney next month!!!!

It doesnt fit into 1000, comes to 1300 or so.

Did we get confirmation as to what the Cult Mechanicus detachment consists of?

It's a 'Battle Congregation', which doesn't match any of the mentioned formations, so unless the rumormongers have been hiding stuff from us, I'm guessing it's the 2 troops + HQ detachment. I might be wrong though, so don't hold me on that. Just speculation.

I've seen some leaks where the Cult list is 1 HQ 2 Troops and then up to 6 more troops, 4 elites and 2 or 3 heavy.

And yeah, I read battle maniple as maniple (regular detachment). Oh well. I can still make it work lol.

If it really is one of everything the min points cost, with the meelee only knight is 1815 points. Probably not tourney viable even with boatloads of free gear seeing as you have tiny easily killed squads.

Any way to model the heritic adeptus in the Black Crusade RPG with these figures?

The WD picture shows one of each unit, so I'm assuming that is the requirement just like the Skitarii and all the other formations/detachments.

Since they specifically say 'Detachment' it's almost 100% guaranteed to not be a '1 of everything' formation.

It's more likely to be the 1 HQ/2 Troops minimum detachment that's been rumored.

 Enigwolf wrote:
I just realized how confusing "AM" is going to be if they ever release an AdMech codex given it'll be the acronyms of 2 'dexes...

So why would you be forced to take one of each Skitarii but now one of each CM?
I should be the same as Skitarii. For allies you take 1 HQ and 2 troops as a min.
I think this is the case of poor word on GW for putting detachment when it should have been something else.
I would still go by the picture and what makes sense from a GW perspective.

Yeah with this being GW there's little to no chance it's not the one of everything formation for both.

Ick.

Just looked at the electo priest box.

Not only are they useless, they're 5 for $41.

I may have to break my promise to my 1994 self to pick some up.

Nithoggr wrote:
So why would you be forced to take one of each Skitarii but now one of each CM?
I should be the same as Skitarii. For allies you take 1 HQ and 2 troops as a min.
I think this is the case of poor word on GW for putting detachment when it should have been something else.
I would still go by the picture and what makes sense from a GW perspective.

The Skitarii force needed is the Skitarii Battle Maniple, which is a formation (different from the normal Skitarii Maniple detachment)

the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has the word detachment in it, which leads us to believe it's not one of each, because that's not what a detachment is about, that's a kind of formation

Plus, all formations from the codex have been leaked already, we're only missing the specific Cult Mechanicus detachment...chances are it will be 1 HQ and 2 TROOPS but we don't know yet

Diving 1 army into 2 incomplete codex's released weeks apart. This is ridiculous even for GW standards.

 Harriticus wrote:
Diving 1 army into 2 incomplete codex's released weeks apart. This is ridiculous even for GW standards.

It makes me wonder if their plan all along is to just wait until everyone buys their own copies of whichever of the two they want, and then release Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus combining all of them. But maybe there's a quality in them being two armies that I'm not seeing. Truth be told, I still haven't seen many rules for them so they might be more powerful put together as 2 armies than they would as a single one. If so, I'm not sure how I feel about that.

RedFox wrote:

Nithoggr wrote:
So why would you be forced to take one of each Skitarii but now one of each CM?
I should be the same as Skitarii. For allies you take 1 HQ and 2 troops as a min.
I think this is the case of poor word on GW for putting detachment when it should have been something else.
I would still go by the picture and what makes sense from a GW perspective.

The Skitarii force needed is the Skitarii Battle Maniple, which is a formation (different from the normal Skitarii Maniple detachment)

the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has the word detachment in it, which leads us to believe it's not one of each, because that's not what a detachment is about, that's a kind of formation

Plus, all formations from the codex have been leaked already, we're only missing the specific Cult Mechanicus detachment...chances are it will be 1 HQ and 2 TROOPS but we don't know yet

Consensus is the same across other forums as well. It appears that GW's specific wording of "Detachment" implies it's not a "Formation".

Quarterdime wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Diving 1 army into 2 incomplete codex's released weeks apart. This is ridiculous even for GW standards.

It makes me wonder if their plan all along is to just wait until everyone buys their own copies of whichever of the two they want, and then release Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus combining all of them. But maybe there's a quality in them being two armies that I'm not seeing. Truth be told, I still haven't seen many rules for them so they might be more powerful put together as 2 armies than they would as a single one. If so, I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Frankly, I'm not upset about it. We get double the lore, the artwork, warlord traits, tactical objectives (if anyone plays those), and relics. Plus I doubt we'd have both the Canticles and the Doctrina rules if it were one 'dex, that might be too confusing for some players. I like how the two "half-dexes" makes it clear what units are Skitarii, and what units are not, because you had shenanigans in the past like Grey Knights getting psybolts on everything (If you read the lore, it's really just inquisitors that have such free access to psybolts).

Confirmation of the Battle Congregation being 1 HQ/2 Troops minimum.

I'm curious to know what the Tech-Adept and Divine Chorus command benefits are.

Reroll warlord trait and reuse a canticle

THere we go then

the WD formation is a minimum of 1330 points.

Wow, it is tight but 1330 pts leaves just enough room to expand squads and perhaps get a detachment with a few transports. This might just be a good competitive army.

 ansacs wrote:
Wow, it is tight but 1330 pts leaves just enough room to expand squads and perhaps get a detachment with a few transports. This might just be a good competitive army.

Agreed. At 1500 you might be struggling a bit. At 1850 you hit the sweet spot, where you have 520 points to increase squad sizes or trade out your Knight Paladin for something like a Cerastus-chassis or a Crusader, but still get a crapton of upgrades for free over your enemies. At 2000 points I think you have enough to even get a second detachment for transports, but I'm inclined to think that 1850 is perfect for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wilson wrote:
Reroll warlord trait and reuse a canticle

So they get the reroll Warlord Trait ability.. twice? Once from the original detachment and once from the Formation? That's a little redundant...


Side note: Does anyone know how Canticles work across multiple detachments? Say I have a Battle Congregation, an Elimination thingie, and a Cohort Cybernetica. Do they count separately, and each use is separate, or do they count as one army still?

So no need to run Electro Priests? Great news.

@Enigwolf:
No word on separate detatchments but:

From WD 69: for the Ad Mech War Convocation:

"The Machine Brotherhood of Mars:
All units in this formation have the Canticles of the Omnissiah special rule (see Codex Cult Mechanicus), even though they do not all have the Cult Mechanicus Faction".

What that means for individual Cult Mechanicus detatchments I have no idea.

I think the first step for me when adding to the bare minimum for the War Convocation is maxing out the Vanguard and Ranger Squads to 10 men with 3 special weapons, thereafter it is situational and depends what the meta in your gaming group is.

Ugh 1330 points is not alot. That means there is huge potential to break this open in an 1850 point game. I could fit both my extra dunecrawlers, 2 more squads of guys, and fill out some more chickenwalkers, THEN have stupid free gear.

Heck why not throw a culexus assassin and inquisitor coteaz in there, really get the cheddar goin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do the skitarii units in the combined formation ALSO benefit from doctrina imperatives, or do they give those up to be part of this formation. I would assume the latter, or else that would be stupid broken.

 Orock wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do the skitarii units in the combined formation ALSO benefit from doctrina imperatives, or do they give those up to be part of this formation. I would assume the latter, or else that would be stupid broken.

Very good question, the data sheet in question does not specify anything about doctrina imperatives.

 Orock wrote:

Do the skitarii units in the combined formation ALSO benefit from doctrina imperatives, or do they give those up to be part of this formation. I would assume the latter, or else that would be stupid broken.

Of course they do. As well as their own (sub-)formation bonus (scout and crusader?). And canticles for everyone, including the Knight and the Skitarii.

Probably need a spread-sheet or something to run this army to remember which rules apply to which units at any given round though

Christ on a bike, I thought I'd feel a bit dirty bringing the Cybernetica Cohort formation to pick-up games, but comparing it to the WD combo formation is like comparing flavourless processed American cheese slices to ripe Camembert.

Wow I see that on the fast track to a full on banned formation list.