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Hello I am back with another idea leading off from my last thread.

Ok obviously the name sucks lol, but at least it conveys an idea. I primarily got the idea when I saw the screen shot of a conversion dreadnought with a metal wolf from Jackal in my other thread

 Jackal wrote:
Heres something that Col made from dakka:





To be honest, i see nothing wrong with the idea of a large mechanical wolf.
Pups have large wolves anyway, so what would be wrong with a mechanical one?

Its a sweet conversion and looks space wolfy enough (yes I did just say that)

But his profile would be as follows:
AV 13 on front and sides and 12 on rear 3 hull points it will have 2 turret sky fire something similar to the space marine icarus storm cannon array without the rules but it will be str 8 ap 2 instead and he will have move through cover, it can't use a drop pod its too big it has 4 legs. Its a walker that gets 4 base attacks and has assault grenade launchers so he can strike at initiative which is 4 and those same grenade launchers he can fire 4 krak or frag grenades out of at a 24" range in his shooting phase. Because of his 4 legs he can run 2d6+2 in his shooting phase. His close combat attacks are at Str 9 AP 2 with shred and rending.

I give him a base points cost of 155.

Honestly, sounds ridiculous.

Why does the robot wolf have skyfire? Whats thematic about that?

Why can it effortlessly outfight a helbrute, having power fist level attacks yet no actual close combat weapons I can see aside from some teeth, yet also fire S8 AP2 and 4 (!!!) frag/krak attacks per turn?

Why does he have 12 rear armour on top of all that? I don't see any armour back there at all, let alone AV12 plating.

Way too much man.

That's not the model it was a reference, and the anti air guns would be snap fires to most other stuff, its supposed to be their anti air and to make up for not having a flyer, but its also dual compatible, it won't get the same upgrades as other dreadnoughts get and it can't take a drop pod. Space wolves revere dreadnoughts so it makes sense. It is assault based as well and I had to give it something to shoot at other ground targets with, what want me to increase the points?

Most space wolves players I know don't take vehicles, maybe give them a reason too.

Also hellbrutes suck that was a terrible reference.
If you noticed to I said sky fire I didn't say interceptor too :p

Don't up the points, instead, make it a more thematic and focused model that focuses on 1-2 jobs instead of being literally amazing at almost *everything*.

Right now its fast as feth, has excellent all round armour, laughs at terrain, can blow fliers away with ease, decimates almost anything in melee, and can sweep hordes off the board with 4x small blasts, and savage high T or light AV vehicles with krak grenades (assuming they are S6 and not S8 like krak missiles, need to go check)

My area is crawling with mech wolf lists, so nah, they don't need any encouragement.

Lol ok I don't want it to be another dreadnought, how about if I change it to 2 krak or frag shots and instead of 2d6+2 just d6+3 for his run, also small blasts are not all that great if you do your models at the 2" coherency markit will only get 1 model per direct hit.

My idea was to do something different with an anti flyer model and make it close combat oriented as all space wolves are, but to give it some not used much weapons to shoot stuff with, since its not invincible and can be killed with 1 shot and pen to explode. Now with those degrades the points should be reduced to about 140.

I don't like the point cost though it competes with a regular dreadnought to much, I wanted people to have a real choice instead of the obvious but dreadnoughts usually suck any ways, well this model will be under the heavy support choice. Maybe I'll put two storm bolters on him and put him back to 155?

It doesn't mean that you can pack as many small blasts as you like, with 4 you're bound to cause quite a few hits. This doesn't really fit the anti-Flyer idea, and the fact that it can be destroyed by one hit is a very poor excuse for cheap costs. Honestly, I can't think of a single reason why this can't be represented by a normal Dreadnought.

Well I wanted to make it unique. Most anti-flyer models are just anti-flyer, well and anti-skimmer to but, they cost around 70 to 90 points. I wanted to give the space wolves a multi versatile anti-flyer assault walker. Ok just 2 grenade launcher things at a 18"range and two shoulder mounted storm bolters with the 2 shot turret mounted aa gun and make his points 175? Is that more of a balance?

You are right it could be represented by a dreadnought. But then why wouldn't other chapters have access to that technology? I tried to make something different that obviously looks space wolfy is anti flyer and skimmer while also having small arms fire to make you choose between running or shooting instead of always just running if your opponent doesn't bring a flyer. Also I had to give it an increase to its armor since dreadnoughts the way they are now suck and just die. This walker doesn't get heavy fire arms to ground units so it needs a chance of survivability to slog across the battle field since he doesn't have access to a drop pod. I mean its nothing amazing just an idea to put out there.

I still have one more idea to....

Space Wolves have access to a very good anti-air unit. The contemptor dreadnaught with duel assault cannons can/will shooting down most flyers in one turn. Why make a whole new model that people wont let you use when you already have a model people wont let you use!

Damn they can really take dual assault cannons? You sure you don't mean auto cannons? Even so you need snap shots, and if you have 8 str 6 AP 4 rending shots you don't want them snap firing, also assault cannons are only 24"range. Well I doubt his points are at 175 :p

I am also saying this because you know space wolves will be getting a new model when their codex drops. Its going to be a vehicle or MC.

Dat Guy wrote:
Damn they can really take dual assault cannons? You sure you don't mean auto cannons? Even so you need snap shots, and if you have 8 str 6 AP 4 rending shots you don't want them snap firing, also assault cannons are only 24"range. Well I doubt his points are at 175 :p

I am also saying this because you know space wolves will be getting a new model when their codex drops. Its going to be a vehicle or MC.

Dual Kheres Assault Cannons, giving 12 shots total, can be combined with a Cyclone Launcher for 2 extra Krak shots.

I honestly doubt SW will get a new MC model.

Is that a real thing in Warhammer 40k 6th Ed? 12 assault cannon shots for real, from one model? We aren't taking about a different rule book or anything right? Damn, why aren't they used more?

Still it can wreck stuff in cc and with move through cover and striking at initiative regardless is cool for a anti-flyer walker

Dat Guy wrote:
Is that a real thing in Warhammer 40k 6th Ed? 12 assault cannon shots for real, from one model? We aren't taking about a different rule book or anything right? Damn, why aren't they used more?

Because its Forge World, and the mere mention of it gets people incredibly upset and immediately cry out 'overpowered' and 'pay to win'.

Well when I am making this I am leaving forge world and apocalypse out of it. I was like damn I know I have never seen anything in 40k that had more than a 4 shot assault cannon, best was it was twin linked :p

Well at least I know where it came from haha. So at least this guy is still valid. Just wait till my third model

Dat Guy wrote:
Well when I am making this I am leaving forge world and apocalypse out of it. I was like damn I know I have never seen anything in 40k that had more than a 4 shot assault cannon, best was it was twin linked :p

Well at least I know where it came from haha. So at least this guy is still valid. Just wait till my third model

Maybe you should focus on what people are saying about the 1st and 2nd before you begin your third idea...

Well after I made the changes no one replied saying if it was better or not. I guess I will have to do an update later on the whole model, I will be busy for most of the day.

Downgrade the missiles to grenades. Rather than AA lascannons, make them AA hunter-killers (IE: Rng infinite, S8 AP2, Heavy 1, Skyfire, One Use Only).

All of a sudden, you have a monster out of a Japanese video game. I could see it as a boss from Metal Gear or Final Fantasy, at any rate.

Downgrade it to two attacks - it's obviously limited in its CC potential because it's only got a jaw to attack with (if it tries to use more than one forepaw to attack it'll fall over). Maybe give it Rage to represent a cat-style Pounce Attack.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Downgrade the missiles to grenades. Rather than AA lascannons, make them AA hunter-killers (IE: Rng infinite, S8 AP2, Heavy 1, Skyfire, One Use Only).

All of a sudden, you have a monster out of a Japanese video game. I could see it as a boss from Metal Gear or Final Fantasy, at any rate.

Downgrade it to two attacks - it's obviously limited in its CC potential because it's only got a jaw to attack with (if it tries to use more than one forepaw to attack it'll fall over). Maybe give it Rage to represent a cat-style Pounce Attack.

I like this post is funny about the different references, ok I like your suggestions very much, if it operates like two hunter killer missiles other vehicles should be able to take them too. Ok 4 might be to much but a wraithknight gets 5 attacks base, I'll make it 3 with shred, I see regular dreadnoughts do terrible in cc, with on average hitting on 4's and I see so many people both me and others roll 1s it just happened today again haha. Anyways I'll list my updated version.

Wolf Walker 2.0

AV 13 front and sides 11 rear. 3 hull points, 4 for every other stat except str which will be 9 AP 3 rending at 3 attacks base. Has one twin linked str 7 AP 2 turret on his top, that is sky fire. 2 twin linked grenade assault launchers that count as assault grenades for charging and make 2 frag or krak grenade shooting attacks. He has move through cover, and when he runs he runs for 1d6+3. And he will be 155 points. It also has a searchlight and smoke launchers, and it cannot take a drop pod.

There that is more balanced.

I really don't see why it has skyfire, how can it properly even look and aim on a flyer with canine build?

And it still suffers the "kick everyone's ass" syndrome. he makes most equally-costed units look like a joke by tearing them apart in range and melee at once.

Drop the skyfire, it doesn't fit the model. and the rear should be 10 if I ever seen one.


However, if you want to take it into the assault direction, because he sure looks the part, I would suggest you change to a smaller gun, with lowish range and high RoF (say something akin to TL assault cannon? or a pair of heavy bolters) and then you can give it assault abilities.

...the sky fire gun is a turret mounted on its back that aims at the sky and it only has 2 normal shots at the ground, grenade launchers are only 24" range with either a krak grenade at str 6 AP 4 or a small blast frag grenade at str 3 AP - that's not nearly as good as a 4 shot str 6 AP 4 rending gun from an assault gun.

Do people know what they talk about? Lol the anti air gun has sky fire meaning it can fire at any flying model or skimmer at full ballistic skill, any thing else which is all ground units except skimmers they are snap shots. He DOESN'T have the interceptor rule to that in combination with sky fire allows you to shoot at everything at full ballistic skill. He's mostly for assaults and anti air and skimmer made him play a versatile roll instead of everything else that's anti air being just anti air.

I like it.



Because I would run with three and win every game ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, reminds me of a zoid.

Dat Guy wrote:
...the sky fire gun is a turret mounted on its back that aims at the sky and it only has 2 normal shots at the ground, grenade launchers are only 24" range with either a krak grenade at str 6 AP 4 or a small blast frag grenade at str 3 AP - that's not nearly as good as a 4 shot str 6 AP 4 rending gun from an assault gun.

Do people know what they talk about? Lol the anti air gun has sky fire meaning it can fire at any flying model or skimmer at full ballistic skill, any thing else which is all ground units except skimmers they are snap shots. He DOESN'T have the interceptor rule to that in combination with sky fire allows you to shoot at everything at full ballistic skill. He's mostly for assaults and anti air and skimmer made him play a versatile roll instead of everything else that's anti air being just anti air.

Yes, but why does it have Skyfire? It doesn't look or feel anything like a dedicated AA unit, he doesn't need to be good at everything. It's like you've said to yourself "I've been losing to a lot of Flyers recently so I'm going to tack Skyfire onto a load of crap."

I dont mind it as an AA platform however if you are going to do this you need to make it MUCH more dedicated to that role and less for everything else, for example:

DreadWolf: Fast Walker designed to be able to manuver and shoot down enemy aircraft.

Base Points: 110

FOC Slot: Fast Attack or Heavy Support

Special Rules: Skyfire, Move Through Cover, *Beast or Jump MC (for purposes of movement only)*.

Weapons: Icarus Stormcannon Array (*See Codex Space Marines Stalker*), Underslung TL-Heavy Bolter, Assault Grenades (For Purposes of CC), Iron Maw and Claws (*Rending*)

Upgrades: May upgrade the TL-Heavy Bolter to a TL-Heavy Flamer for Free, TL-Assault Cannon or TL-Lascannon for 20pts.

Stats: WS: 4 BS: 4 S: 5 FA: 11 SA:11 RA:11 I:4 A:4

Something like this is much more accecptable as you now have a "dedicated" anti-air unit and a semi-dreadnought that has more attacks but at less strength and no smash attack option.

Dat Guy wrote:
...the sky fire gun is a turret mounted on its back that aims at the sky and it only has 2 normal shots at the ground, grenade launchers are only 24" range with either a krak grenade at str 6 AP 4 or a small blast frag grenade at str 3 AP - that's not nearly as good as a 4 shot str 6 AP 4 rending gun from an assault gun.

Do people know what they talk about? Lol the anti air gun has sky fire meaning it can fire at any flying model or skimmer at full ballistic skill, any thing else which is all ground units except skimmers they are snap shots. He DOESN'T have the interceptor rule to that in combination with sky fire allows you to shoot at everything at full ballistic skill. He's mostly for assaults and anti air and skimmer made him play a versatile roll instead of everything else that's anti air being just anti air.

So what happens when this goofy wolf, designed for the assault and sporting an odd quad gun growth from the spine, shoots a flyer? Does he get to leap into the air and assault it too? Or just sit there stupidly as the flyers buzz overhead? As others have said, seems like this monstrosity is attempting to be good at all things when it really shouldn't. An assault walker that can also Skyfire? Why not just keep the assault weapons and replace the Skyfire bits with twin-linked autocannons/heavy bolters/assault cannons? Sure, it doesn't have Skyfire anymore, but in a pinch all those twin-linked weapons can reliably hit Flyers, and still shred other, tastier, assault-worthy targets through weight of fire.

Basically, don't reinvent the Dreadnought.

@ gmaleron I love that profile and stats, those actually work really perfect and would be interesting as a fast attack selection for space wolves. I might just go with that one.

@ Mr_bruno I don't see how he is that good all he has are a total of 4 shots half of which fire snap fires at flyer and other half snap shot at ground units. It moves a base of 6"and it can choose to run d6+3. I really only see if he gets into close combat he will be most effective. Also he doesn't get sky fire the turret gun on top of him does.

I mean you can look at a wraithlord for a similar comparison. The wraithlord can only move 6"and rarely gets to assault stuff before it dies. This dread wolf needs to forgo it's shooting to run that extra 3"on top of the regular d6 roll. I don't see it being as great or powerful as some have said.

You also didn't see why your wolf being able to kill pretty much anything in the game was an issue either.

Dat Guy wrote:
blah blah blah I don't see how he is that good all he has are a total of 4 shots half of which fire snap fires at flyer and other half snap shot at ground units. It moves a base of 6"and it can choose to run d6+3. I really only see if he gets into close combat he will be most effective. Also he doesn't get sky fire the turret gun on top of him does blah blah blah

You get 4 shots with one walker at one target that are all twin-linked. A Leman Russ Exterminator has a good chance of hitting a Flyer with its 4 twin-linked shots. It doesn't have to be OP like you keep trying to do with all your other weird wolf fetish vehicles. It just has to be believable and not broken. 4 twin-linked shots, at a Marine's BS, is nothing to sneeze at. If you keep all your other gimmicks on this thing, you still have an OP assault vehicle. An OP assault vehicle that can cross the board in a turn, shoot down flyers, and murder infantry whilst shrugging off lascannons.

I don't see it being as great or powerful as some have said.

Then you aren't really listening then, eh? Go read your other forums and see the consensus. Your ideas are there, sure, but they are way too much in their present stage.

 Dakkamite wrote:
You also didn't see why your wolf being able to kill pretty much anything in the game was an issue either.

It has the ability to put 2 glancing hits or penetrating hits on a flyer then it gets two grenade launcher weapons and how can it move across the field that quick? His furthest possible movement if he for goes his shooting is 15"and that's if he rolls a 6 to run.

At Mr Bruno, are you still new to 6th edition? This model has only one type of unit it can fire all 4 of is shots at with BS 4 and that is skimmers. Ok I will take the twin linked out of the grenade launchers. Depening on if it's a flyer or not 2 out of 4 shots will be snap shots, the BS doesn't matter with snap shots.

And to dakamite position your Las cannons to hit his rear armor, ironclad dreadnoughts get front and side armor 13, how do you deal with them? An ironclad dreadnought also has the option to drop pod and put a melta into your flank.

Are the points to low?

The necrons have an armor 13 4 hull point vehicle how do you deal with that?

Dat Guy wrote:The necrons have an armor 13 4 hull point vehicle how do you deal with that?

Are you new to Necrons then as well? Quantum Shielding only works until the first Penetrating Hit is inflicted.

The problem here man is that when people suggest issues, instead of just agreeing with the majority opinion you try to argue against it. When you have 4-5 people saying the same thing is wrong with your unit, they're probably onto something. That seems to be a 'thing' amongst many of the latest proposed rules posters sadly.

As for the ironclad and necron thing, your uberwolf would just go wrek it in close combat after casually wreking several fliers and dozens of infantry on the way

The ironclad can't touch air units, not can he blast from range. he MUST come close to get anything done, and in assault range its not hard to reach his rear.

Necron tanks, even if we forget the quantom only works until you pen them once (because lets be honest, they are all OPEN TOPPED. a single pen, likely came from AP2 or even 1, meanes its likely dead.), does not bring his front AV13 when assaulted, its hit on its rear AV11. assault units should be able to drop it, krak grenades can take it, even crisis suits got a chance to punch it down-not to talk on if they happen to pack melta bombs, then its DEAD.

The dreadwolf is, at the moment, durable, got ranged kill power, melee kill power, requires heavy firepower to take down, or really good assault units,and can threat any type of target in the game. and should the need arise, it can move pretty quick.
Even the annihilation barrage, a well-known offender in the "too good at everything" role, is at least vulnerable to assault. the current wolf requires pretty much dedicated anti-tank units to even have a chance of taking him, and unlike other super-durable, it also packs enough firepower and assault power that ignoring it is not an option.