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Invisibility:

models attacking (or being attacked by) invisible models in close combat count as WS1. Blows made by or against non-invisible models in the same combat are resolved normally

Horus' armour:

The armour also negates any psychic attack directed at the Warmaster or any effect that would adversely modify his characteristic profile on a D6 roll of 3+.

My question. Does the Big H get a 3+ to negate invisibility? He's not being targeted and his Stat is technically unchanged (if he multi assaulted another unit, he'd strike it as normal). To me this looks straightforward. Horus hits at WS1. I've been told "everyone" disagrees. What say you fine gents?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FYI, I don't have the BRB or the HH:B with me (both at home, I'm not) so I lifted both rules from other threads, I hope operative words are correct.

RAW is clear. Invisibility does not modify the stat, it just counts it as being something else in a specific situation. This fact is reinforced by the lack of any RAW method of making that 3+ "save": do you roll once when Horus joins the combat, once per attack, once per round of combat, once when invisibility is cast and remember the roll in case Horus ever fights the unit, or something else entirely?

 Peregrine wrote:
RAW is clear. Invisibility does not modify the stat, it just counts it as being something else in a specific situation. This fact is reinforced by the lack of any RAW method of making that 3+ "save": do you roll once when Horus joins the combat, once per attack, once per round of combat, once when invisibility is cast and remember the roll in case Horus ever fights the unit, or something else entirely?

Disagreed.

Invisibility does modify the model's characteristic(as opposed to Snap shots where the "Shots are made at BS1"); you would roll his save when the affect would adversely modify his characteristic profile(During his I step).

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Invisibility does modify the model's characteristic(as opposed to Snap shots where the "Shots are made at BS1");

No it doesn't. Compare the wording of invisibility to enfeeble, which inflicts a penalty on the victim's stats. Invisibility, on the other hand, does not modify the model's actual characteristic. Outside of that one specific situation (attacking other targets, defending against attacks, etc) the model's WS is unchanged.

you would roll his save when the affect would adversely modify his characteristic profile(During his I step).

Citation for this? Why is it rolled once at initiative instead of once for each attack that would be modified (or one of the other possible methods)?

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
RAW is clear. Invisibility does not modify the stat, it just counts it as being something else in a specific situation. This fact is reinforced by the lack of any RAW method of making that 3+ "save": do you roll once when Horus joins the combat, once per attack, once per round of combat, once when invisibility is cast and remember the roll in case Horus ever fights the unit, or something else entirely?

Disagreed.

Invisibility does modify the model's characteristic(as opposed to Snap shots where the "Shots are made at BS1"); you would roll his save when the affect would adversely modify his characteristic profile(During his I step).

His WS isn't modified. The power even says so explaining how to treat other shots/attacks. If Horus had to do a characteristic check (somehow), it's still not modified because it never was. His WS isn't 1, it just counts as it. If those were the same thing, we wouldn't need the phrase "counts as" in 40k.

I stand corrected.

It might also be worth putting snap shots quotation in the OP (since it also uses the phrasing 'counts as')

Invisibility:
"Models attacking (or being attacked by) invisible models in close combat count as WS1. Blows made by or against non-invisible models in the same combat are resolved normally"

Snap shots:
"If a model is forced to make snap shots rather than shoot normally then its BS is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots"

Especially for Invisibiltiy the follow-on sentence reinforces that it is 'resolving normally' vs 'resolving with WS1' that is the option.

Horus doesn't negate Invisibility on a 3+ for the same reason he doesn't negate Snap Shot on a 3+, it does not modify the characteristic on his stat profile.

Invisibility certainly does work against Horus, 'counts as' gets around it as it is not a reduction.