Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Saturday February 8th, The End Games will be hosting a Warhammer 40K Tournament! For full information and rules take a peek below. First place takes home a Realm of Battle game board! If you have any questions feel free to email or call us to clarify! Please register by emailing us at omegagamesllc@gmail.com
Registration starts at 10AM with the first round beginning promptly at 11AM. Entry fee is $10 pre-register, $15 at the door. Call (434)-973-2205 or come in to pre-reg.


1850 points
-Warlord powers rolled out of the main rulebook will use one dice. This result can be used on any of the three tables. This roll cannot be switched to use into a codex specific chart.
-Any models using any FW/IA rules MUST contact a T.O. for approval before Thursday February 6th. Any participants that bring unapproved rules will answer to the discretion of the T.O. the day of the tournament.
-All forces must use their most recent codex, including WD replacements.


1.) Supplemental Codecies will no longer be able to ally to their base codex. Also codecies cannot ally with themselves, even if rules allow them to do so.

2.) Dataslates/Inquisitorial Supplement will take an ally slot. Taking units from many, many different books and ignoring the force organization chart is too much. This change will make dataslates an interesting addition to the game, without allowing for truly bizzare armies. As an added bonus of explanations, we feel that the codex and allies works well and we encourage people to use allies, but being able to use so many different things at once is mind blowing and hard to list check. So in order to prevent this, we enacted the first two rules.

3.) No Escalation or Stronghold Assault units. Fortifications from main rulebook are still allowed.

4.) Tabling an opponent will not give an auto-full point win in objective based missions. The game is meant to be fun and complete wiping an opponent does not follow our idea of good sportsmanship. If you do manage to wipe an opponent, kudos but you must still adhere to mission objectives. Mission are meant for a reason and we don’t want people ignoring them. If you can’t grab the objectives needed, then you did not complete your mission. If you table your opponent with turns left, the game will continue as normal for the player left to try to finish missions.

5.) The Grimoire of True Names will only affect the natural Daemon Invulnerable Save. It will not affect invulnerable saves provided by wargear, psychic powers, fortifications, etc. While we did not want to single ANY codex, we feel that the Grimoire unbalances the game too much in favor of a single army. Instead of banning it, we feel that only affecting Daemons units natural invulnerable saves was a good, fair and fluffy compromise.

6.) Any given unit may only be affected by one blessing and one malediction at a time. This is to prevent units from being completely bogged down by effects that would render them as less than pity grots.

Prizes:

Best Tactician: 40% of Entry Fees in store credit AND a Realm of Battle Gameboard
Best Overall: 30% of Entry Fees in store credit
Best Painted: 10% of Entry Fees in store credit
20% of Entry Fees will be given DURING the Tournament of Secret Round Goals Revealed that day!


Best Tactician will be the player with the most Mission Points at the end of the tournament.
Best Overall will be the player with the most Mission Points, Sportsmanship, and Painting Score.
Best Painted will be the army that is painted the best by PARTICIPANT decisions and voting.


Sportsmanship: All players receive full sportsmanship scores of 10 each match and are assumed to have good sportsmanship scores. A player may file a sportsmanship claim against their opponent, in which the TO will investigate this claim. If he deems the complaint as truly unsportsmanlike, the following consequences will be enforced:

1st Complaint: Verbal warning
2nd Complaint: -5 pts of sportmanship for the round.
3rd Complaint: -10 pts of sportsmanship for the round and -5 pts of sportsmanship for each other round.



Painting:
Unprimed models: 0 pts
Primed Models: 5 pts
Three color minimum: 10 pts
Based and detailed: 15 pts

Schedule:
10:00-11:00AM: Registration
11:00 AM-1:00PM: Round One
1:00PM-2:00PM: Lunch Break
2:00-4:00:Round Two
4:00-4:30: Break
4:30-6:30: Round Three
6:30-7:00: Closing, Prizes, Etc.

Scoring:
Each Mission has 3 Primary GOALS with 8 Mission Points Each and 3 Secondary GOALS worth 2 Mission Points each for a total of 30 Base Mission Points per game.
Drawn Primary GOALS are worth 4 Mission Points.
Drawn Secondary GOALS are worth 0 Mission Points.

Primary GOALS:

GOAL #1 Crusade
An Automatic total of three (3) “Crusade” Objectives will be used for this goal. At the end of the game, the player who controls the most “Crusade” objectives wins this goal. “Crusade” Objectives cannot be placed within 6″ of any LONG board edge or 3″ of any SHORT table edge or within 6″ of another “Crusade” objective.

GOAL #2 The Emperor’s Will
Two Objectives, One in each deployment zone, they cannot be placed within 6″ of any table edge or 3″ of another objective.

GOAL #3 Purge the Alien
At the end of the game, the Player with the most Victory Points wins this GOAL.

Secondary GOALS
#1- Slay the Warlord #2 Linebreaker #3 First Blood



Mission #1: Mr. Gorbachev Tear Down That Wall
Deployment: Dawn of War
Heavy Support Choices are scoring but are worth an additional Victory Point if destroyed.
Special Rules:
Reagan Smash! : Once per game, 1 model may add +1 to its To Wound Roll OR +1 to its Vehicle Damage Roll. This counts for 1 individual, single roll of one dice.


Mission #2: Paul Walker’s Dead, but Ricky Bobby Aint!
Deployment: Vanguard Strike
Fast Attack Choices are scoring but are worth an additional Victory Point if destroyed.
Special Rules:
If You’re Not First, You’re Paul Walker: All Vehicles can may move an extra d6 inches when going Flat Out. If this is used, roll another d6. On a roll of 1, the vehicle will suffer a stunned result and loses a hull point.


Mission #3: I can’t feel my legs, I can’t feel my legs.
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
HQ Choices are scoring but are worth an additional Victory Point if destroyed.
Special Rules:
In Chess, The Pawns Always Move First: On each player’s first turn, your Warlord and any unit he may be attached to, may forego its entire Movement Phase, any Run rolls, and any Assault Movements. If he does, the rest of your army may choose to move an additional d6 inches during its movement phase. Each unit will roll separately.

Update!

We still have spots open! Also there is a change to the prizes won! Best Tactician gets the choice of a Realm of Battle Gameboard OR a custom-made Cities of Death Mini Game table!

Also with this inclusion, best overall will also receive a Realm of Battle Gameboard OR a custom-made Cities of Death Mini Game table, which ever the Best Tactician did not choose!

Sign up now at http://forums.theendgames.co/post/1850-40k-tournament-feb-8th-6712816

or call us at (434) 973-2205

or email us at omegagamesllc@gmail.com to reserve your spot!

Below is the custom-made Cities of Death Mini Game table

I'm interested in attending, but a few quick comments/questions.

1. What's the deal with the Warlord Trait change? It makes no sense. Can I get a discount on HQs that have a built in trait, or am I just meant to take a penalty there?

2. While I see that Daemons have been sufficiently pummeled, why are Tau/Eldar left alone? I get the attempts to hurt Seers/Screamers, but come on. The loss of Fatey's guaranteed Warlord Trait, combined with the changes to multiple buffs/maledictions is really harsh on what currently is the game's third best army. Meanwhile, the best Tau stuff and Eldar Serpents remain unchanged.

3. You do realize that the Seer Council is still viable with the addition of the Baron, right? While they can't go 2+ armor/2+ cover/4++, the unit still has a 2++ re-rollable character to tank the wounds.

1). Having a built-in warlord trait guarantees you know what you will receive. You can plan for your warlord to do things ahead of time. If you roll out of the BRB table, it could be different every time. This "change" is to give armies who do not even have the choices to get warlords with base traits to have some flexibility so if you roll a d6 on a table and you just so happen to roll a trait that your character already has, it does not go to waste.

2). I am a bit confused here but I will try to explain. The Grimoire, in all of my play testing and experience, is used and abused. Upon planning this, I asked for opinions from multiple people. THE DAEMON PLAYER is the one who helped me figure out this one. Unlike some tournaments, we are not banning the Grimoire just limiting it to what we felt was its balanced, intended purpose. As for Tau/Eldar, its a great ally combination, one that I get crushed by all the time but I cant penalize an ally combo just because they are too good. I dont see how I took away Fatey's guaranteed warlord trait and may be something I overlooked.

3). Again I can't stop everything. The Grimoire is just too crazy and I only set it to what I believe it was intended to do. My idea was this: If I go out banning things, where do I stop? And I only banned Escalation and Stronghold, Tau/farsight 5 riptides combo, Chaos/Black legion quad-drakes and lists with 4 force-orgs(main, ally, inquisitorial, data-slate). That seems pretty fair to me.

I tried to make this tournament fun for not only casual gamers, but still viable for competitive gamers as well.

1). Having a built-in warlord trait guarantees you know what you will receive. You can plan for your warlord to do things ahead of time. If you roll out of the BRB table, it could be different every time. This "change" is to give armies who do not even have the choices to get warlords with base traits to have some flexibility so if you roll a d6 on a table and you just so happen to roll a trait that your character already has, it does not go to waste.

There seems to be an assumption that making everyone roll off of crappy BRB tables somehow balances the game. The problem with the BRB tables is that 9/10 times, the results are meaningless and the other 1/10 times they are game changing. There are also a number of combos that rely on a Warlord's guaranteed trait. Again, you are burning Daemons really hard here. Also, you are making an assumption that characters with set traits aren't paying a point cost for them. Just my two cents.

2). I am a bit confused here but I will try to explain. The Grimoire, in all of my play testing and experience, is used and abused. Upon planning this, I asked for opinions from multiple people. THE DAEMON PLAYER is the one who helped me figure out this one. Unlike some tournaments, we are not banning the Grimoire just limiting it to what we felt was its balanced, intended purpose. As for Tau/Eldar, its a great ally combination, one that I get crushed by all the time but I cant penalize an ally combo just because they are too good. I dont see how I took away Fatey's guaranteed warlord trait and may be something I overlooked.

Ok...you stop Screamer star--a build that isn't a GT winner by any stretch. You also limit Daemons more. However, the two armies that are empirically the best in the competitive 40k scene are unchanged. This just seems arbitrary to me.

3). Again I can't stop everything. The Grimoire is just too crazy and I only set it to what I believe it was intended to do. My idea was this: If I go out banning things, where do I stop? And I only banned Escalation and Stronghold, Tau/farsight 5 riptides combo, Chaos/Black legion quad-drakes and lists with 4 force-orgs(main, ally, inquisitorial, data-slate). That seems pretty fair to me.

I tried to make this tournament fun for not only casual gamers, but still viable for competitive gamers as well.

Easy--just choose not to use Escalation and Stronghold. Go with the idea of Formations/Dataslates as allies.

The other stuff you changed seems arbitrary--especially the Warlord and psy powers stuff. I'm all for trying to make the game better, but I think that decisions by TOs need to be transparent, tested, and uniform. Again, just trying to throw an opinion out there. I'm interested in attending, but I just wanted to understand the mindset behind a bunch of decisions that seem arbitrary and that do not address the core issues of imbalance in 40k (mainly, Tau/Eldar dominance).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, am I correct in assuming the Be'lakor and Cypher are treated as a formation that counts as an ally slot of just one model? Or, are you playing them as an extension of CSM/Daemons codices as per their rules?

This is how we've decided to run our tournaments. We think it will bring some balance. Obviously we can't fix it all. We would love to have you as a participant but it would be much appreciated if you just don't criticize us and the decisions we have made. We care about the people involved and if they decide its not what they want, then in our next event we will change it. Until then, these are the rules for our event and i'm sorry if you don't agree with it. You asked for explanations for our rules, they were given.

The warlord trait rolling only HELPS people using the BRB. People using codex powers and pre-set traits have also made that choice. I don't think that this breaks anything what-so-ever. Warlord traits are meant to be random except for special characters who come with them. I've only helped people who have no specific codex powers.

Every daemon player I have talked to agrees on my ruling for the grimoire. It will stay as-is. With the limits of allies and their parent codex, we've stopped the spamming of units. It's far from arbitrary.

Also Be'lakor and Cypher will count as a dateslate for this tournament. We did not have time to play test everything we wanted to before so we did lump these into data slates and formations.

This is how we've decided to run our tournaments. We think it will bring some balance. Obviously we can't fix it all. We would love to have you as a participant but it would be much appreciated if you just don't criticize us and the decisions we have made. We care about the people involved and if they decide its not what they want, then in our next event we will change it. Until then, these are the rules for our event and i'm sorry if you don't agree with it. You asked for explanations for our rules, they were given.

Ok...sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I am used to having people open to constructive criticism in both the 40k and real world. I just wanted to wrap my head around some of the decisions.

The warlord trait rolling only HELPS people using the BRB. People using codex powers and pre-set traits have also made that choice. I don't think that this breaks anything what-so-ever. Warlord traits are meant to be random except for special characters who come with them. I've only helped people who have no specific codex powers.

This didn't (and still doesn't) make sense to me, but it is your event. I've never seen anyone complain about this aspect of 40k from a competitive sense.

Every daemon player I have talked to agrees on my ruling for the grimoire. It will stay as-is. With the limits of allies and their parent codex, we've stopped the spamming of units. It's far from arbitrary.

I never complained or questioned that limitation. The Grimiore thing is more or less fine, it just opens the floodgates to the question of where you as a TO start and end making changes. I brought up Tau/Eldar as examples of things that are far more troubling to game balance than the Grimiore.

Also Be'lakor and Cypher will count as a dateslate for this tournament. We did not have time to play test everything we wanted to before so we did lump these into data slates and formations.

This just all but ensures that you won't see them...

Anyway, I appreciate the response. Like I said, I am used to a more open venue for discussion when it comes to events. At the same time, I've run and helped to run local tournies before, so I appreciate the fact that you have to make decisions that won't please anyone. Please, don't mistake my questioning of some of your rulings to be any kind of personal attack. My apologies!

 JGrand wrote:

The warlord trait rolling only HELPS people using the BRB. People using codex powers and pre-set traits have also made that choice. I don't think that this breaks anything what-so-ever. Warlord traits are meant to be random except for special characters who come with them. I've only helped people who have no specific codex powers.

This didn't (and still doesn't) make sense to me, but it is your event. I've never seen anyone complain about this aspect of 40k from a competitive sense.

JGrand, it seems to me you mistake what is being said. In simple terms for those who have to roll out of the main book (5thed books) or who choose to (6th ed books who don't want to roll on theirs) they instead of picking a table and then rolling instead roll a dice and then can apply the result to any of the three tables. Special characters, or anyone who is the Warlord and comes with a trait cannot choose this and their trait is predetermined. So for example Kairos has his trait, Lord of Unreality, he will have that in every game, but Dark Archon Denny has to roll out of the BSB so he rolls a dice, gets a 3 for example's sake, and now gets to apply that three to one of the tables rather then pick a table first and then roll. This was made to more balance out the crappy traits that seem overabundant in the main book.


EDIT: Do note we are keeping track of comments and criticisms aimed at this setup. Your thoughts are being noted and taken into account for the next tournament, which we will hopefully be able to get more feedback on beforehand.

PS: This would be the DAEMON PLAYER that darkeldardenny is referring too. I do agree we've done little to stop Eldar/Tau dominance, but we shall endeavor for more balance come our next tournament.

One question. How would the Grimoire affect my Tzeentch marked mutulaters? They have the Daemon 5++ but the mark isn't "war gear" per say. Is their natural daemon save a 5++ or a 4++ also would the grimoire stack with me rolling a 10 on the worp storm chart? or would that not be concidered their natural save?

Whatever the daemon is of doesn't matter as they all give a 5+, Tzeentch doesn't change that. As for the Warp Storm that will ad and subtract as normal.

All the daemons in the CCM book, exceptthe prince, can take marks. the mark of Tzeentch improves involn save by one.

You're saying units in Codex Chaos Space Marines, not Coex Daemons then yes? Like Warp Talons and Obliterators? If those had Mark of Tzeentch then with the Grimoire they would be bumped up to a 3++, as the Mark of Tzeentch says it cannot go to a 2++.

Wow, was considering making the trip. But restrictions are a little much.

Good Luck all who turn out.

JGrand, it seems to me you mistake what is being said. In simple terms for those who have to roll out of the main book (5thed books) or who choose to (6th ed books who don't want to roll on theirs) they instead of picking a table and then rolling instead roll a dice and then can apply the result to any of the three tables. Special characters, or anyone who is the Warlord and comes with a trait cannot choose this and their trait is predetermined. So for example Kairos has his trait, Lord of Unreality, he will have that in every game, but Dark Archon Denny has to roll out of the BSB so he rolls a dice, gets a 3 for example's sake, and now gets to apply that three to one of the tables rather then pick a table first and then roll. This was made to more balance out the crappy traits that seem overabundant in the main book.

Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification.

EDIT: Do note we are keeping track of comments and criticisms aimed at this setup. Your thoughts are being noted and taken into account for the next tournament, which we will hopefully be able to get more feedback on beforehand.

PS: This would be the DAEMON PLAYER that darkeldardenny is referring too. I do agree we've done little to stop Eldar/Tau dominance, but we shall endeavor for more balance come our next tournament.

I actually don't think that a ton should be done unless it is playtested really well and the decision itself made transparent. I do think that the setup for this tourney is nearly there, but everyone will have an opinion these days. I'm just another voice.

Sweet... appears Jetseer is nerfed as well!

4hrs is a bit of a drive, but I'll see if I can do it.

Tsilber wrote:Wow, was considering making the trip. But restrictions are a little much.

Good Luck all who turn out.

Sorry you feel that way, but thank you for the well wishes.

JGrand wrote:Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification.

I actually don't think that a ton should be done unless it is playtested really well and the decision itself made transparent. I do think that the setup for this tourney is nearly there, but everyone will have an opinion these days. I'm just another voice.

You are welcome. yeah we plan to do a lot more playtesting, focusing on Tau, Eldar, Tyranids, and focusing more and missions to see what might work better. We've got a nice split on some who think just bumping up mission requirements is all that is needed, like a heavier focus on scoring so those big deathstarish builds have a harder time, while others think more direct fixes like those above are needed. As you can see we ended up trying the later for this one and will be carefully seeing how it works, plus will be looking for any and all feedback from those who enter, or any who wish to playtest the format. Other voices, of experience, are exactly what we want.

gregor_xenos wrote:Sweet... appears Jetseer is nerfed as well!

4hrs is a bit of a drive, but I'll see if I can do it.

I'm not going to lie Jetseer/Jetstar, O'vesastar, and Screamerstar are the main lists we were looking at to try and balance without just removing them. I will be the first to admit what we did may be wrong and it is not THE answer, but I'm sure we can all agree that those lists all showcase problems in this game. As such we tried to limit their power as much as possible. For example both the Screamer and Jetstar can still get 2++ rerolls, but we've made some sacrifice there to hopefully force choice unto the player and a bit more fairness to the opponent. Tau is about the only one we've had significant trouble balancing mainly because its one dude who wrecks everything and we can't say just don't take him. Bah, but I'm rambling now. 4 Hours is a long drive, one I wouldn't begrudge you not showing up for at all, but if you decide to come out we'd be more then welcome to have yah. I would advise calling ahead and reserving a spot though if that is your plan.

Ive got a friend that will let me know by Wednesday. Then Ill call in.

The Tournament is this Saturday! We have a few more spots open! Sorry about being slow to respond to stuff, we are also a magic card shop and this week has been hectic with a pre-release. There are a few spots left! Remember if you want the pre-reg price, you need to pay BEFORE hand. If not, it will be considered at the door prices.

Any plans incase it snows? lol

We plan to be open and running the tournament. Snow is in the forecast, so are dice rolls!

lol.... hope it doesn't... not driving 4 hours in snow. Idiots around here aren't precipitation friendly. (much less when its frozen)

Tables are set up. It will snow but not enough to keep us down! Show up and roll them dice! We ready!

This ended up being a really competitive event. The store and TO deserves a ton of credit--everyone seemed to have a great time! The prize support was awesome and there were a ton of really solid lists and players. Dakka's own, Trix (aka Rob Tilly), took home the top prize, which was a Realm of Battle board.

As for my suggestions after some reflection:

-I know a line of sight blocker in every table was discussed. It would have really helped. I was kicking myself for not bringing a Bastion. Still, the tables had really solid terrain quality considering that there were nine of them.

-I like the idea behind the changes, but some may have been too extreme. The rise of the 2+ re-rollable save has been in response to the crazy firepower of Tau/Eldar. I don't really like facing unkillable units either, but there may be a middle ground. It is worth considering making 2+ re-rollables a 2+ followed by a 4+. Still good, but not unbeatable.

-The restriction of two codices/formations is solid. I don't know that you need to go more extreme than that. O'vesa star is kinda lame, but it isn't unbeatable. While it is admirable to try to stop that build, the unintended consequences of shutting down SM/SM is not so good. I know that if Nids had a supplement, it would be very harsh to stop Nids/Nids just to take away a build that while strong, mainly caught people by surprise. Finally, I don't think that Be'lakor/Cypher should require a full allies slot. Neither character is broken, and they are added to a relatively underpowered codex in CSM.

-Most of the other restrictions hurt Daemons disproportionately. The nerf of the Grimiore and single blessing/malediction per unit, combined with a lack of LOS blockers really gave Tau/Eldar that event on a silver platter. I tend to think that the Daemon players that succeeded was more of a reflection of who played the lists rather than the army itself. I know that my Eldar with four Serpents, a Skyshield, and two Wraithknights would have blown people up in really unfun fashion at this event.

In addition, I've never seen it ruled that FMCs need to come down to contest an objective. Again--really disproportionate stuff that made Daemons have to go even more uphill to beat Eldar/Tau. If you are going to stick with these restrictions, then you have to balance those armies too. D3+1 shots for the Serpent Shield and a restriction of one signature system to a Buffmander would have balanced what was done to Daemons. This is a tough road to go down though. I tend to think that Occam's razor is the best way to go--the easier, the better.

-Finally, the mission design was really solid. ATC stuff is super fun. I do think using someone's FAQ would help. Additionally, it is a waste of time to have players determine terrain pre-mission. Just have 2-3 ruins, and the rest as area terrain. Save that time for actual play.

Overall, great event! A ton of work goes into pulling this off, but I know that everyone really appreciated it!

Thanks for the constructive input. It will go a VERY long way to updating and providing ideas for our next tournament. Overall we had 15 people show up and a wide variety of lists, which what was intended and hoped for. We hope that the next event will be even better, and hopefully, providing the resources, bigger. A lot of thought and consideration was put into the tournament.

I will say the basic idea of the objectives became a very big issue and I take full responsibility on that front. To me, FMC's should not be able to hold/contest objectives while also being able to benefit from being in the air, same as fliers. As for next tournament, there will be a full clear and concise outline of how objectives and the units that can score them will be played, while still extremely simple. I am very appreciative of the people that came out to the event and to the people that traveled great distances; multiple players traveling over 3+ hours was not something i had envisioned but definitely appreciated, more so that can be expressed.

With this being said, stay tuned for our next exciting event!

I just want to say thank you again Denny for hosting the tournament, it was great fun and I look forward to attending future events!

Justin hit a lot of points as far as recommendations go, so I don't want to harp on the points he has already made.
One thing that I might add is maybe trying to extend the rounds to 2:15 or even 2:30 instead of just 2. I know that I, and my opponents all played fairly quickly, and we were still struggling with time.

On the positive side the missions were a blast and I loved the random bonus thrown in with the games. Added a bit of excitement and made you want to play a bit riskay!
That being said I recommend any players in the near by area to try and attend their next event!

What were the results of this tournament?

Seems the organizers really hate daemons lol, changing so many book rules like fmc landing to contest and affecting grimoire yet not touching Eldar Jetseer Council rerollable.

Great that some players enjoyed that some aplenty though!

Deshkar wrote:
What were the results of this tournament?

Seems the organizers really hate daemons lol, changing so many book rules like fmc landing to contest and affecting grimoire yet not touching Eldar Jetseer Council rerollable.

Great that some players enjoyed that some aplenty though!

Daemons took first. Most of the changes ended up not really being a problem for those armies. Ended up with Deamons in top, TauDar the battlepoint winner, and Eldar for best painted. Various armies won the little extra prizes.

Daemons took first. Most of the changes ended up not really being a problem for those armies. Ended up with Deamons in top, TauDar the battlepoint winner, and Eldar for best painted. Various armies won the little extra prizes.

Rob's FMC Daemons took first, a relatively standard Taudar took second, and if the sheet I saw at the end was correct, my FMC Daemons took third in battle points.Other armies that had success included the 8 Serpent Eldar, a 3 Soul Grinder/Fatey/Be'lakor Daemons, and a neat Dark Eldar/Eldar list.

As to the changes not being a problem, I'd wholeheartedly disagree. My entire army composition changed; if I wanted Be'lakor, I was sacrificing my allies slot. Furthermore, the unique ruling that FMCs could not contest/cap without landing was a major swing game three points wise for me. Finally, I was taken by a rude surprise to find out that the event ruled that Fatey's 4++ is not his natural save, but a special rule. Therefore, he could only be modified by the Grimiore to reach a 3++. Finally, there are times in which I want to cast multiple blessings/maledictions on friendly and enemy units. I could not do this per event rules.

Like I said before, the intent was admirable, but the results were disproportionate nerfs to daemons. Combine the aforementioned changes with a lack of LOS blockers, and there was no excuse for a Tau/Eldar permutation not to roll the competition. Daemons are, without a doubt, one of the top codices at the moment. However, they do face an uphill battle against Tau/Eldar, and major tourney results back this up. Make no mistake, Daemons succeeded in spite of the changes--they were by no means minor.

 JGrand wrote:
Rob's FMC Daemons took first, a relatively standard Taudar took second, and if the sheet I saw at the end was correct, my FMC Daemons took third in battle points.Other armies that had success included the 8 Serpent Eldar, a 3 Soul Grinder/Fatey/Be'lakor Daemons, and a neat Dark Eldar/Eldar list.

As to the changes not being a problem, I'd wholeheartedly disagree. My entire army composition changed; if I wanted Be'lakor, I was sacrificing my allies slot. Furthermore, the unique ruling that FMCs could not contest/cap without landing was a major swing game three points wise for me. Finally, I was taken by a rude surprise to find out that the event ruled that Fatey's 4++ is not his natural save, but a special rule. Therefore, he could only be modified by the Grimiore to reach a 3++. Finally, there are times in which I want to cast multiple blessings/maledictions on friendly and enemy units. I could not do this per event rules.

Like I said before, the intent was admirable, but the results were disproportionate nerfs to daemons. Combine the aforementioned changes with a lack of LOS blockers, and there was no excuse for a Tau/Eldar permutation not to roll the competition. Daemons are, without a doubt, one of the top codices at the moment. However, they do face an uphill battle against Tau/Eldar, and major tourney results back this up. Make no mistake, Daemons succeeded in spite of the changes--they were by no means minor.

Every one of the changes you mentioned was for the sake of balance. Belakor becoming an ally himself I don't see as a bad thing. Sure you can't take a drake with him, but that isn't a be all end all. For the FMC ruling, I agree with Denny's ruling. True RAW they can despite their flying status, but don't you think that is a bit silly? Flyers cannot control or contest despite what mode they are in. Fatey's save was something that was brought up quite a few weeks beforehand. A concerned person called in and questioned us about Fateweaver. The reason we had to rule it the way we did is because of our ruling for the Grimoire. Since Fateweaver was granted a 4++ it was no different then the Screamerstar being granted it. now if Fateweaver's rule had said it changed his Daemonic save, like the Daemon Lords then we would have ruled it the other way.

Now I do not disagree we were too heavy handed to daemons, but that wasn't the intent. The intent was to try and fix multiple armies without calling out specific ones except in the case of the Grimoire. I will say that this will be very different for the next tournament. Likely we are to see less rule changes, better terrain, better setup, and the adoption of an FAQ. Most importantly there will be detailed look on objectives as there were a couple of problems, notably the FMC one you mention and a lot of people were placing them too close together.

Every one of the changes you mentioned was for the sake of balance. Belakor becoming an ally himself I don't see as a bad thing. Sure you can't take a drake with him, but that isn't a be all end all. For the FMC ruling, I agree with Denny's ruling. True RAW they can despite their flying status, but don't you think that is a bit silly? Flyers cannot control or contest despite what mode they are in. Fatey's save was something that was brought up quite a few weeks beforehand. A concerned person called in and questioned us about Fateweaver. The reason we had to rule it the way we did is because of our ruling for the Grimoire. Since Fateweaver was granted a 4++ it was no different then the Screamerstar being granted it. now if Fateweaver's rule had said it changed his Daemonic save, like the Daemon Lords then we would have ruled it the other way.

Changing things without heavy playtesting leads to unintended consequences. Do Be'lakor and Cypher's addition really break the codices they can be added to? I don't think so at all. And yes, I do think that on paper, the idea of FMCs capping objectives while flying is silly. The same could be said about them putting a toe into cover and gaining cover while flying. At the same time, those are the rules. Gameplay has and will never equal fluff. No other events I've ever been to rule this way--for good reason. Neither of those things are broken (in fact, they are critical to making FMCs competitive at all).

I still think the Fatey save is nitpicky and random at best. He has a natural 4++--no powers required. Furthermore, it isn't exactly difficult to knock out the Grimiore to stop this save from happening. Screamerstar usually has the Grimiore buried in a unit, but smart players can still kill Fatey, take away their ability to re-roll failed Grimiore usage, and then hammer them when they do fail. Furthermore, Screamerstar isn't a GT winning build. It isn't worth messing with. Seer Council is annoying, but plenty of armies can beat it. FMC Daemons give Seers a tough time, as smart players go after their troops.

As you can tell, I'm not into playing amateur game designer. If these changes were extensively tested, there may be a case for them. As it stands, TOs need to keep it simple if they don't plan on spending 40 hours a week re-designing the game. Cap armies at two total codices (formations and Inq take up a slot). Don't allow Stronghold and Escalation. Maybe change the 2+ re-rollable to a 2+ followed by a 4+. If not, you create even more issues.

Now I do not disagree we were too heavy handed to daemons, but that wasn't the intent. The intent was to try and fix multiple armies without calling out specific ones except in the case of the Grimoire. I will say that this will be very different for the next tournament. Likely we are to see less rule changes, better terrain, better setup, and the adoption of an FAQ. Most importantly there will be detailed look on objectives as there were a couple of problems, notably the FMC one you mention and a lot of people were placing them too close together.

Intent doesn't matter--reality does. Like I said, the intent of this event was great. I fully appreciate all the time and thought that went into it. I know what it is like to run and event, and it can be really thankless, so please don't take this the wrong way. Nevertheless, intent aside, Daemons were nerfed by almost all of the rulings that were made:

-Be'lakor as an entire ally slot
-FMCs capping objectives
-Grimiore nerf
-Multiple blessings/misfortunes

Meanwhile, the two best armies in the game are affected how? I guess that Farseer will often have a third power that has to target a different unit than the other two he twin-links. That's about it. The Buffmander is still the single best model in the game, capable of handing out a billion rules. Broadsides still put out obscene firepower. Riptides are still super hard to take down. Wraithknights are still a jump MC with 6 wounds and toughness 8. Wave Serpents are still overpowered gun boats that can be taken en masse. The list goes on.

40k has a ton of broken stuff right now. It has always been that way. In the past, the big kid on the block has been singular--Leafblower Guard, GK Razor Spam, White Dwarf Daemons, etc. Now, we have a ton of viable (and sometimes frustrating) builds. When you start restricting the power level of some, you inevitably increase the power level of others. Taking away O'vesa star and nerfing Seers/Screamers/FMC only means that Tau/Eldar/Taudar/Eldau get better.

This is all just my opinion. As I've said, I had a ton of fun regardless. The event was great, the people were nice, and the TOs did an excellent job. We are just at a place in which there are going to be a ton of opinions about the best way to run 40k events. Either way, it is very appreciated that some great people are taking time to make sure the community has fun!