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They're always so grumpy and what not. They take a game of plastic men too seriously, and generally I've found the last couple of years, they're more of a half glass empty type... TL;DR they just seem like someone pisses in their oatmeal every morning... People should be more lighthearted. At least GW is giving us all the opportunity to immerse ourselves in this world...

Don't let the internet forum color your perception of real people. There's always internet tough guy, internet know-it-all, internet white knight and the other forms of internet whatever.

I'm old enough to be like this:

Sweeping generalisations for the win DMB. I still enjoy your posts though

 Ratius wrote:
Sweeping generalisations for the win DMB. I still enjoy your posts though

SICK I got my own acronymn now!

 agnosto wrote:
Don't let the internet forum color your perception of real people. There's always internet tough guy, internet know-it-all, internet white knight and the other forms of internet whatever.

I'm old enough to be like this:

That's my cat

Well, not really, but I wish it was ^^

40k is undergoing a period of purging of players who take the game as a serious strategic exercise. It's not that surprising that said people are whining because they're forced with the option of changing or leaving.

It's just a phase, though. Eventually it will all settle out.

 Ailaros wrote:
40k is undergoing a period of purging of players who take the game as a serious strategic exercise. It's not that surprising that said people are whining because they're forced with the option of changing or leaving.

It's just a phase, though. Eventually it will all settle out.

I hope it happens quickly. Tired of the nerd rage.

 Ailaros wrote:
40k is undergoing a period of purging of players who take the game as a serious strategic exercise. It's not that surprising that said people are whining because they're forced with the option of changing or leaving.

It's just a phase, though. Eventually it will all settle out.

Hasn't settled out since 2nd ed, chief. And they've been undergoing the period you describe since 1994.

Ayup. It is amazing really how nothing has changed. If you look at the threads created as far back as 2004 the same attitudes are present even then.

Case in point: if no one will buy my BA after the codex drops, you're stuck with me. Because certainly no one will buy them right now.

There's been people whining ever since the beginning, yes, but we're in a period of much higher concentration. This is a different event, then the usual droning.

Chief.

In any case, how long it lasts will be based on the players themselves. GW did a good job by cancelling it's tournaments, but "serious" players unfortunately have spiralled off into their own self-sufficient world. A cynical person might say that it's like a pneumonia that's able to insulate itself, rather than getting better on its own. In that case, the best we can do is to gently shepherd them away from dakka, at least, so we can get back to business as usual, and not have to make such copious use of the ignore button.

 Ailaros wrote:
There's been people whining ever since the beginning, yes, but we're in a period of much higher concentration. This is a different event, then the usual droning.

Chief.

In any case, how long it lasts will be based on the players themselves. GW did a good job by cancelling it's tournaments, but "serious" players unfortunately have spiralled off into their own self-sufficient world. A cynical person might say that it's like a pneumonia that's able to insulate itself, rather than getting better on its own. In that case, the best we can do is to gently shepherd them away from dakka, at least, so we can get back to business as usual, and not have to make such copious use of the ignore button.

I completely disagree. But I disagree with almost everything you post, so that's not a surprise. Feel free to put me on ignore.

The game is more popular than ever. The more people in the pool, the more opinions you have.

It's like when I left my hometown and moved to a more densely populated area... The people to idiot ratio exploded.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
They're always so grumpy and what not..

One could argue they have valid reasons...

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
. They take a game of plastic men too seriously...

Considering how much the hobby costs one could argue that not taking it seriously is ridiculous.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
and generally I've found the last couple of years, they're more of a half glass empty type....

More bad than good in the last couple of years. Gw has done a lot to alienate, frustrate and harass those who play it's games, or trade them...

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
they just seem like someone pisses in their oatmeal every morning..

For some, it is this. Take something you love, hold dearly, something you've spent countless hours building, painting and playing with ;and are invested in. Now wreck it. Keep doing this, and showing utter contempt in the process. Yeah, I can see why people get miffed...

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
People should be more lighthearted.

Light hearted is fine for snakes and ladders and Indiana jones movies. It's for something you can put on in the background, and not have to bother too much about...Something with the investment potential of 40k (time, effort, money). Yeah, potentially a different story there bud...

It'll settle out when GW is dead. And given their business practices, which are causing the current heartburn by retreating to their ivory tower, treating FLGSs like garbage, cost cutting to the bone, and generally treating their rules as The Emperor's Gift to the Imperium (with zero support) are a recipide for disaster.

There's facts and data that show them trending negatively beyond mere internet conjecture. You'll have your ignorant defenders, you'll have people who do not realize that no other game has a fractured playerbase, you'll have the people venturing forthe, you'll have the old timers who's give a damn is all but spent... It's a melting pot.

If the course is not corrected, GW will have what it wants, just hobbyists left. And then we shall see how sustainable that market really is with the expectations of profits for their shareholders.

 Ailaros wrote:
40k is undergoing a period of purging of players who take the game as a serious strategic exercise. It's not that surprising that said people are whining because they're forced with the option of changing or leaving.

It's just a phase, though. Eventually it will all settle out.

Phase? How long does it last? Since I found 40K forums about 10 years or so ago, same thing has been going on. Back then it was GW sucks, GW prices are too high, GW sucks, they don't listen to their fans, GW doesn't give what it's fans want, GW releases things to slow and far apart, GW has no clue on how to run a business. 10 years later it's the same thing except, GW releases stuff too soon.

Phase? No I don't think so, just the small majority is the loudest as it was before. Maybe it's new people who complain/whine but as more things change, the more things stay the same.

Davor wrote:
Back then it was GW sucks, GW prices are too high, GW sucks, they don't listen to their fans, GW doesn't give what it's fans want, GW releases things to slow and far apart, GW has no clue on how to run a business. 10 years later it's the same thing except, GW releases stuff too soon..

...and the whole raft of other things that they've given us to complain about over the last couple of years...

That, I suspect, is where a lot of the perception of the increase in complaints is coming from - with GW finding ever more ways to piss off their customers and trade accounts, there's more chance of there being something in there to annoy any given person. More things to complain about is almost always going to result in more people complaining, unless the number of people who actually care enough to complain is falling away at a fast enough rate to counteract the increase in complaining.

Almost all the people I know that fit your description are people who have been playing since the early to mid 90s.

When you start listening to them and asking them questions, they're just burnt out on 40k because they've played so much of it.

Am I the only person who doesn't hate GW?

Lrn 2 enjoy the game.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't hate GW?

Lrn 2 enjoy the game.

I think GW is awesome...

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't hate GW?

Lrn 2 enjoy the game.

You can like the game and the models plenty, and dislike the exorbitant prices.

Or maybe you're rich and you don't mind the prices, and love the models, but really don't like the rules.

Or maybe you're just in it for the modeling and painting, and coudn't care less about the rest.

Disliking some aspect of 40k is only normal.

 Ailaros wrote:
40k is undergoing a period of purging of players who take the game as a serious strategic exercise. It's not that surprising that said people are whining because they're forced with the option of changing or leaving.

It's just a phase, though. Eventually it will all settle out.

I disagree with this on so many levels, first off it is not only the "people who take the game as a serious strategic exercise" that are complaining. It seems that people from all over the hobby are not exactly thrilled with 40k/GW right now from the painters to hardcore gamers. Also what is wrong with treating 40k like a strategic exercise? As far as I can tell Warhammer 40k is a a strategy exercise, albeit not very serious, because from all the games I have played, seen, battle reports read/watched every single one has strategy (a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim.). Further more is it a necessarily good thing that some (being vague because there are no concrete statistics) of the players are being forced to chose between being forced to change how they enjoy the game or leaving? Especially considering that one of the major(?) ways warhammer 40k gets advertised is through word of mouth.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't hate GW?

Lrn 2 enjoy the game.

What does liking or disliking GW have to do with enjoying 40K?

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't hate GW?

Lrn 2 enjoy the game.

To quote Insaniak

"Because disliking GW's recent business direction is not the same thing as disliking Warhammer 40k.

Because disliking the current direction of the game is not the same as disliking the game.

Because complaining about the things you dislike about something that you otherwise enjoy can sometimes effect positive change.

And because when you have invested a lot of time, effort and money into something that then changes into something you don't like as much, it's not so easy to just shrug your shoulders and move on to something else."

 jasper76 wrote:
Almost all the people I know that fit your description are people who have been playing since the early to mid 90s.

When you start listening to them and asking them questions, they're just burnt out on 40k because they've played so much of it.

I have been playing since 89 and even went thought the Tournament/WAAC phase. Then after watching two guys almost comes to blows of a stupid ruling that would have made no difference in the long run I almost quit.
Now I play just to blow [bleep] up and have fun showing off the latest model. I now try to play against people who want to play the same as the rest of us. It has cost us players, those of us who stay have fun.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only person who doesn't hate GW?

Lrn 2 enjoy the game.

I think GW is awesome...

There are more facts, more data points, more educated analysis all pointing to GW being in worse condition today than any other "complaining" of yesteryear. Welcome to the internet age, when we all have access to treasure troves of data.

Also, remember a prime rule of customer dissatisfaction: for every person that vocally dissaproves or critices your product or business model, you have many more who simply dump it and walk away. So if you think complainers are in the mintority, there economic theory that states that this is a falsity.

Here's a brief primer on customer service:
http://money.howstuffworks.com/customer-service.htm

Now show me where GW is following at least half of the "good things" you're supposed to do. Look at their competition (really do if you all you know is GW). It makes GW prices look like terrible and their support look like hot street trash.

***The key takeaway is that 90% of the disatisfied customers will NOT complain. So think about how many complain on Dakka and more like it. Now imagine 9 more people for every single person. Now think that a lot of the regulars are saying the complaining has gotten worse over the past two years; more so since Dec 2013. Now add that to the crap mid-year financial report we saw. Start doing the math. ***

Oh look, Daly's doing this thread again.....

 Anpu42 wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Almost all the people I know that fit your description are people who have been playing since the early to mid 90s.

When you start listening to them and asking them questions, they're just burnt out on 40k because they've played so much of it.

I have been playing since 89 and even went thought the Tournament/WAAC phase. Then after watching two guys almost comes to blows of a stupid ruling that would have made no difference in the long run I almost quit.
Now I play just to blow [bleep] up and have fun showing off the latest model. I now try to play against people who want to play the same as the rest of us. It has cost us players, those of us who stay have fun.

40k is a hobby I picked up in my late 30s (I remember when it first came out, but we were too poor at the time to play these kind of collectible games). I think I'm fortunate in that regard: (a) I don't have 15 years worth of models to get upset about if they are nerfed, (b) I've never seen nor have been bothered to look up older codexes and such, so in my 40k-world-view, there are no nerfs, (c) I'm too old to take the game too seriously, and (d) I'm too wise to expect things like good balance from a bucket-of-dice, 18 gaziliion special rules, over-the-top sci-fi game.

A & B will probably change, but I hope C & D remain the same.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
They're always so grumpy and what not. They take a game of plastic men too seriously, and generally I've found the last couple of years, they're more of a half glass empty type... TL;DR they just seem like someone pisses in their oatmeal every morning... People should be more lighthearted. At least GW is giving us all the opportunity to immerse ourselves in this world...

Still tilting at that windmill eh?

"40k players these days..."
Good troll title .

Lots of "statements" in the OP, so it could be perceived as "grumpy" but a good reply is "So-what?".
You threw all that out there which is a desperate cry for attention so here you go (do not want you to get all grumpy being ignored):

People play 40k on their leisure time so playing hard can be important, sports are serious enough for fist-fights in the after-hours so be thankful.

Making light of a "game of plastic men" be fighting words!

As the OP you take your winning very seriously (as I have seen in other forum posts) so "people should be more lighthearted" is hard to take seriously when it does not apply you.

The players from the 90's as stated seem to be the higher ratio since the younger fan-base is not growing much with the larger number of very competitive games out there.

True answer to the perceived general dissatisfaction now is that the company gave us MUCH more of an opportunity to immerse ourselves in their world and in a "culture" and over the last couple years all the extras that made things more immersive have been taken away.

It is knowing the contrast that makes people more critical of what we get now.

I have no hate for GW, I just know they can do much better but they choose not to out of convenience... errr... as a "business decision."

There you go, now go take your "light hearted" Venom spamming self out there and cave face!