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Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Firstly: I apologise if this was not the appropriate place to post this topic and other faux pas I may commit, I'm new to this forum! Sorry!

Over the last year or so I've been casually building a miniature battle game using 1/144 scale Gundam plastic model kits. I've wrote my own rules for games before, but this was the first project I've decided to devote a good deal of time too! Expect some spelling and grammatical errors, inconsistencies in terminology, etc.!

I was inspired by my love of the Gundam TV series and other war games such as 40K. I encourage you to check it out if you like Gundam as much as I do.

Obviously, I'm a bit nervous about publishing this, but I feel play testing and feedback from war gaming and Gundam communities will help me a lot in the long run. Don't be shy, I'd love constructive feedback!

Below is a link to the blog I have chosen to host my game:

https://donkusgaming.wordpress.com/

Look for 'Mobile Suit Gundam: Skirmish'!

Good gaming everyone!
   
Made in nz
Camouflaged Zero





Auckland, New Zealand

Well, I read through it all so it was interesting enough for me to do that which is a decent start. I would say your layout could do with some work as it makes it a tad confusing to follow. I can imagine the idea behind explaining it through a turns steps, but with the 'do this... go to no.X, or this... go to no.Y' makes it confusing and feel like I'm reading some of those old goosebump novels.

A basic overview for the cursory viewer: (at least from what I gather)
Spoiler:

Skirmish style game that takes place over a series of turns wherein each turn, opponents act one after the other. At the beginning of each turn, there is a D6 roll off to see who will lead the turn (think LOTR has a similar thing, cant remember...priority or something).

A turn consists of 2 sub-phases:
Move/Shoot - Here each mobile suite (MS) can move once and shoot once. The turns leading player does all there moving and shooting, then the following player does theirs. There is no restriction to the sequence for moving or shooting.

Assault - After both players have done move/shoot, then they get into assault. Leading player makes melee attacks first with the following player following with theirs.


The game uses 3 dice types: D6, D12, D20.
The D20 is for ranged attacks
The D12 is for integrity checks
The D6 for everything else
(If I missed one, shoot me )


Moving is kinda done like in warhammer fantasy with regiments. Moving forward is fine but there are penalties for turning 90' and bigger ones for 180'. There is also an option to use boosters, these greatly increase your speed but limit what other stuff you can do (like shooting...I think). You can boost any direction without turn penalties and at the end you have to have the same facing as you originally did. Few terrain types that hinder movement. Boosters can be used in a different manner as well to clear/jump over terrain/stuff or evade attacks.

Shooting; Number of fixed range bands that weapons can come under, if out of weapons primary range band theres a range modifier(negative ofc) and again there are flank bonus's for attacking sides or rear (To hit bonus). Interesting point here though is under MS damage, if you blow off an arm or weapon, which one destroyed depends on which side you were attacking from. Need direct LOS to be able to shoot a target, if they are obscured there's a negative modifier to hit. If they are up against cover they get an armour bonus to. Couple of different weapon types, mostly direct fire ones with some that use W40K blast templates that scatter too. Also indirect fire weapons with scattering templates that need a spotter seeing the target or you saw it last turn...

Assaults pretty much the same as Warhammer, but you don't need to be in base-to-base. Just within 6".

If you get hit, there's an integrity check of the weapons strength vs armour. Pretty much like Warhammers toughness chart but on a D12. There is some shield check stuff but I dont get it.
If you loose an integrity point (wound) you take a morale check, fail that you fall back to deployment zone until you pass it (sort of, this is an overview so take it... and go )

There's a couple of scenario ideas there as well to change gameplay a bit.
Some ideas for character development over campaigns. (Kinda like Spec-Ops in Corvus Belli's Infinity)

Currently no specifics on units, unit stats or what types of stats they will have, and weapons. <- check the second upload -_-

Table suggestion is 5' by 5' with 10" deployment zones on opposite sides. There is a deep strike option similar to W40K available as well. These are for 1/144 scale gundam which i know virtually nothing about.


I can tell you've put a decent amount of effort into it so kudos for that. Couple of points I'll make:

-Why have multiple dice sets? I prefer it to be uniform in tabletop but in RPGs like D&D its fine. I dont see what benefit shooting on a D20 brings over a D12 for example. I would look at using a standard dice size, maybe D12 as I dont like D6s so much. But thats just like... my opinion man...

-There is a huge amount that still needs to be done before even basic play-testing could be done. So here's what I'd suggest: Take a look at;http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/downloads/

I dont know if you are intending to try make something completely from scratch or what. But thats hard and difficult to do. I think it is much better to adapt an already proven ruleset to your use. From reading your post, it seems you have lent more consideration to scenarios and character development that the actual games mechanics. So why not put your ideas onto an already proven game? Infinity has a fantastic skirmish scale ruleset that is free to download from the producer in the link provided. I can see that with a few changes infinity's rules could work great for gundam. There's still scope to add in things like boosters and flanks + whatever else.

The core rules of infinity are quick enough to pick up, but they can get very detailed. So start here:
http://www.beastsofwar.com/infinity/infinity-quickstart-rules-2nd-edition/

BOW have a lot of dealings with Corvus Belli and have produced some very good quick start rules. These would probably be enough to adapt alone. If you are going to look into the more detailed rules, just look at the core rule sets from the downloads section. The human sphere rules and campaign paradiso aren't quite right for this and are more tied in with a different aspect of infinity.


Ill add in there is an infinity forum here on dakka too. And I feel the lethality of infinity is fitting for gundam.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/10 11:32:03


If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush

The easy way is always mined

 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, I built the whole thing from scratch, so it's rough as heck. Units and their stats with weapons, etc, are in the second document on the page! There are a lot of mechanics and modifiers, yeah. I had on the third page I think, a guide for a 'simple' and 'advanced' ruleset that incorporated different levels and degrees of these rules. I should probably revise it a little! I guess it might be hard to follow without posting a picture tutorial? Maybe I should consider that!

Shield checks are pretty simple, I think. They just increase your armour if you are attacked from the front and you roll the correct die (listed next to armour in the unit stats!) Maybe a bit obtuse?

I might look up some other game systems to base revisions off of! I just wanted to see how far I could go building from scratch, first!
I agree with you definitely about fixing my shoddy layout. Ideas are all over the place! Hahaha.

Oh! About the dice sets, I tried accuracy with a D12 but because it seemed to kinda a key mechanic with all the positive and negative modifiers, and it kinda seemed to need more 'physical' space for calculations, you see! I use D6 mostly for variables (because it can divide into 1,2,3!).

Thanks again for the feedback! I will try making images to show the game better!
   
Made in nz
Camouflaged Zero





Auckland, New Zealand

Huh, missed the second one

It makes it a bit easier to get an idea of how it works with those. One thing I can expect to be an issue is morale. Even on a big guy, he could still roll a 6 and fail with 5 integrity points left. Then if he gets down to 2 points its very unlikely he would pass whereas a smaller suit of 4 integrity points would be more likely to pass due to the check being D6 - no. of points lost. Maybe just make it if it gets to 50% or under take a check?

Also what does ejecting the pilot do? I cant imagine a pilot on his own will help at all in combat, is it just for determining victory?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/10 11:31:22


If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush

The easy way is always mined

 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for checking it out!

Well, when a pilot ejects you place their model (available with RG grade gundam kits) the base of their unit! The pilot doesn't move, and it's more just for determining if they are captured by the enemy (to earn them points) or recovered by you (to earn you points and ensure you can keep using the character, if the pilot is one!)

Yeah, I wasn't too sure about the morale mechanic! I may have to change that. So, you'd recommend no check until half base integrity?

Once again, I do appreciate the feedback.
   
Made in nz
Camouflaged Zero





Auckland, New Zealand

Well not necessarily that, but at the moment its harsher for the bigger guys with more integrity points when you would expect them to be the more steadfast of the lot

If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush

The easy way is always mined

 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Okay, I reread through the morale section! The base of a morale check is 6, and you subtract a point from that base for every 'wound' of integrity taken with a unit!

For example, a unit has 5 integrity. It loses a point of integrity in battle and takes a morale check. The check is 6 - 1 ( He's taken one point of damage, see?) which equals 5. Now, to pass the check the unit has to roll 5 or higher on a D6!

Now, big units with more integrity are at no disadvantage because every unit shares the same base number for the morale check, which is 6! For example, a unit with 4 integrity with one point of integrity damage taken total would still have the check as 6 - 1.

If they had two points of integrity damage total, that formula would now be 6 - 2, etc. Same for the other unit!

In essence, yes. A big unit would have a greater chance of failing the check as they took large amounts of damage (Such as 6 - 4)! However, units with less integrity would have already been destroyed by this point, say, one with only 4 integrity! Both units would be losing morale at the same rate until this point (-1 for each 'wound')!

I hope this has cleared it up a little!
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran






Canada

Your enthusiasm for the project definitely shows through in the document and your posts here, which is great!
Basis the rules off an existing system might make them more stable, but that's not nearly as fun for you as a designer
I think asking yourself a simple question will help you decide a lot:

1. Am I making this game for me and my friends to play, or at my hobby shop, or to market for money?

If you're making the game for you and your friends, great, do whatever you want that is the funnest to you. If it happens to be fun to other people that's just a nice bonus.

This can also help you figure out questions like: "Do I need a D20, D12, and D6?" Because if you're trying to market the game or have it appeal to other people, they might not have those dice on hand. Whereas if you're just playing it with friends, then you know full well if you have those dice around.
Same goes for table size. Personally I always start by basing my games off the table I'll be playing them on at home, instead of trying to set it for some "standard" size.

Annnnnnyway, enough philosophy. A few comments specifically on the rules:

1. I'd recommend reformatting the rulebook to two-columns. It's horribly tedious to do later, but is fairly standard.
2. An overview of what a wargame is could help. Just a basic paragraph explaining that you'll use a measuring tape to move models around a table, with dice to resolve things.
3. Instead of a Scatter Die (which can be a bit hard to get for non-40k people, and I believe is technically proprietary) you could use your D12 like a clock face (ie: a roll of 12 would scatter directly north), or some other scheme. Again this comes down to if you're just playing the game with friends or not.
4. Not sure if I'm sold on the format of the "Playing the game" section. Maybe it would work better as a visible flowchart diagram (with boxes and arrows and stuff) instead of a set of numbers? I feel somewhat like this section is more complicated than it needs to be. At the same time I think you're cramming way too much information in here. Seems like it could be compressed to: Activate, Move/Shoot, Assault, and then the details of those points described later in the document.
5. I'm not a fan of having to consult a chart/table of Weapon Str vs Armor. It's cludgy in 40k, but you're writing your own system, so you could think up something funner I also like systems where shooting is resolved in a single roll, instead of rolling to hit then rolling to wound.
6. Boost to me seems too random and game changing. For example the RGM-79SC GM SNIPER has a 10" boost, but only a roll of 6 on a D6. That's a HUGE swing of movement based on very low odds.
7. I like the idea of "Choosing how you want to play", but I'd consider putting this at the end of the document. When reading the rulebook I got to this section before I knew what half the stuff it's talking about even is. I'd also consider some kind of chart or sheet to track what rules are being used in the current game.
8. Weapon Accuracy also seems to have taken a nod from 40k. Have you played many other game systems besides 40k? Right now the Accuracy is exactly the same as BS, just on a D20. Why not just make Accuracy X+, instead of a number that you have to do math to figure out what you need to hit? So for example the ZAKU I has a 105mm Machine Gun with a Weapon Accuracy of 10, which works out to 11+. Why not just write 11+ on the stat sheet?
9. Technically your range bands overlap. Short is 6-18", but Medium is 18-30", so if a target is at 18" are they at Short or Medium? In general the whole range stuff seems confusing to me, with the "1 or more classes too short" applying a modifier and stuff. I think you need to take a step back and figure out what you're trying to achieve with ranges, and then work on rules that support that idea in a simple and easy to use way.
10. I like the idea of target position affecting accuracy, as it helps motivate players to move instead of just "camping" and sitting still.
11. You have all these extra boosting actions, like Evasive Maneuver, but they aren't mentioned earlier in your flowchart. How do you foresee players tracking if they've used their boost action or not? Since to use Evasive (which is used in the enemy turn) you'd have to know you didn't boost during your previous turn.
12. Roll for priority...why are you using D6 here (with such a small range of numbers) when you have D12s and D20s available? Why not use D20 to have a greater chance to avoid ties between players?
13. Assault after moving/shooting. To me this (again) seems like a 40k hold over. Why not just have a unit being able to move/shoot/assault (aka "Perform an Action") in any order, instead of having a special phase for it?
14. You have some special rules (USRs for lack of a better term), but then some weapons (like the Bazooka) have their own custom rules buried in the text. Why not push the weapon rules to this USR chart? The same goes for a lot of unit specific weapons, like the "Cracker Grenade".
15. Border Skirmish scenario goes back to the Boost problem I was talking about, where if one player rolls their Boost really well they could win by getting across the table, just from a few lucky dice rolls. I imagine you want more player input than that?
16. I'm not sure why Shield Checks are put in their own little box, whereas other mechanics are just loosely explained in the flowchart? Does using a Shield have a downside? If not why wouldn't a player always roll for it?
17. Do players write down their current Integrity on their stat sheet? Or do they track it on the table with markers/counters/tokens? If the former I'd increase the space of the Integrity box so players can easily write in there. Or I'd even do little circles they can fill in (like 4 circles for 4 Integrity) or checkboxes or something, to make the process as painless as possible.
Note: I didn't go through the advanced rules or the campaign stuff.
18. I'd also consider updating the stat sheet to have the stats follow the process of a turn. What I mean is Movement is (probably) going to be first, so it should be the leftmost item. Integrity happens after an attack, in the enemy turn, so it's kind of last, and should be the rightmost column.

Most of that is just formatting and clarification. Some of the issues do make it a bit harder for a reader to understand how the game flows, so I might not have the full picture.

But I guess my biggest concern is talking through a typical attack. I mean attacks are the most common, so you're going to be doing this process a ton. To me it reads as: "Okay I'm shooting with Weapon Accuracy 14, *measures and does some wacky range calculation* at a bad range, so -5, so 9 accuracy now, but it's at your back, so +3, so 12. Oh but wait you want to Evade? *enemy uses boost action to evade, rolls D6*. Okay you evaded, so that reduces my Accuracy by -4 to 8. Now *looks at chart* that means I need 13+ *rolls to hit* okay I hit. You have 5 armor, but you're in light cover, so +1, so 6. Do you want to Shield? You do? *opponent rolls shield* and you made your shield, so that's plus what? *enemy looks at sheet* +1, so 7 armor now. Okay my Weapon Strength is 9, so *checks chart* so I need 5+ on my D12. So you're down 1 integrity *opponent updates their sheet with the new integrity*".
So 5 calculations, 2 chart lookups, and 4 dice rolls (between you and your opponent), 1 sheet update.

Streamlining this process, while still maintaining the flavor and options you want, is going to be a tough challenge. But then again figuring out fun, fluid, well designed core resolution mechanics always is.

Author of the Dinosaur Cowboys skirmish game. 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for the feedback! I'm making a list of what needs to be changed based on replies, so thanks! Even the little suggestions help, such as the D20 for priority. That makes so much more sense, doy!

There are a lot of calculations that need to be streamlined. Perhaps removing details such as boosting and shield checks could be better for the game? Either that, or I should redo the combat mechanics to only use one stat?

Assault is a bit of a 40K leftover. Perhaps units should simply be allowed to perform one 'action' aside from moving a turn? This would make calculations a bit simpler. Similarly, merging shooting and wounding into one stat would help here.

Thanks again, guys. This is helping work out the kinks!

EDIT:

So, here's what I'm considering for now:

Changes to strategy game needed:

- Change the use of a scatter dice to a D12 clock face. This is simple and easy to understand. I will provide a diagram.

- Alter boost mechanics: Make it so that way a unit can choose to move extra distance (boost distance! It will be greatly nerfed to compensate) during their movement phase. This is an AUTOMATIC success. Evasion and "Jump terrain" follow elements of chance, and can share the same check, which will be revised. To use these, you must not have moved extra distance (boost distance). Evasions should place units a uniform distance away (say, 2").

- The weapon accuracy chart exists to help calculate modifiers from base accuracy values, not just consultation. For now, I think it is a core element of the game, so I'm keeping it the way it is. I should probably make modifiers simpler and easier to remember. Perhaps colour code?

- The "Range" bands will be fixed by subtracting 1 from the largest value. This gives a clearer cut off point.

- Keep target position rules. They work fine.

- Make priority roll a D20 to reduce likelihood of ties. Less frustrating.

- Phases are to be revised to allow one 'movement' and one 'action' per unit, per turn. Actions encompass firing, assaulting, setting up a sniper shot, etc.

- Revise and reformat the layout of the unit stats. Preferably dual columns, preferably in order of relevance to the rules.

- Make weapon specific rules merged with the unit sheet.

This checklist doesn't include organisational changes needed in the rule book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 08:19:13


 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Sorry if this is against the rules, but I'm just replying to my old thread here to let folks know they I have addressed some criticisms and suggestions in an update to my game!

The new rules can be found here: https://donkusgaming.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/mobile-suit-gundam-skirmish-version-1-1/

I'm working on fixing the flowchart and organisation of the rulebook soon! Hope you enjoy!
   
Made in gb
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Any more news on this?

- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.  
   
Made in gb
Araqiel





Ards - N.Ireland

Funnily enough we're also created a Gundam game for the 1/144 models.

Think we're got a fair percentage of the suits covered, and a ton of fun games from the refining

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 07:48:53


 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

I've always had the idea in the back of my head to make a giant 6x10 table with a nice space drop cloth and just covered in asteroids of different sizes and different heights from the table. Then I'd get a bunch of 1/144 gundams and put them on telescoping flight stands so they can change altitude and fight in 3d among the asteroids.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Yes, there is more news on this! I refined the rules a fair bit, and they are available from my blog!

https://donkusgaming.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/mobile-suit-gundam-skirmish-version-1-1/

I am also in the process of creating a Zeta Gundam expansion set of rules which looks promising. In future, I plan on possibly making a youtube tutorial on the rules if anybody would be interested?

Would you like to exchange some ideas, Duce? I love working with other gamers!
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





I freaking love Gundam. I lived in Japan for a while and brought home plenty of gundam models.

Look up "Mekton Z" and Mekton Z: Plus." Those are RPG rules that you can make any mecha you can think of. Whenever I played Gundam, I just used these rules and I think they really capture the feel of it.

check them out, they might give you some good ideas.
(My character ran in a Hygogg.)



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
 
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