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While I haven't left GW completely (I still play WHFB occasionally with my mantic elf army) I DID stop buying anything new off them.

- I prefer whfb to KoW.

I stopped playing 40k because I stopped liking the rules. I still have most of the models I had when I played (kept the GK and Eldar armies I had prior to 6th ed - kept the marine vehicles and most of the guard army, too) but they don't get used to play 40k and the eldar and GK stuff were originally bought because of how they looked not because of how they played on the table.

MY SF replacement game is Infinity. Well, one of them. The other is Tomorrow's War. My GW marines and guard models work fine in this game. They had no objections to not playing the rules they were meant for.

 chromedog wrote:
While I haven't left GW completely (I still play WHFB occasionally with my mantic elf army) I DID stop buying anything new off them.

- I prefer whfb to KoW.

I stopped playing 40k because I stopped liking the rules. I still have most of the models I had when I played (kept the GK and Eldar armies I had prior to 6th ed - kept the marine vehicles and most of the guard army, too) but they don't get used to play 40k and the eldar and GK stuff were originally bought because of how they looked not because of how they played on the table.

MY SF replacement game is Infinity. Well, one of them. The other is Tomorrow's War. My GW marines and guard models work fine in this game. They had no objections to not playing the rules they were meant for.

I hear they can even keep the same fluff if they want. I know, I know fluff NOT tied to a rule set, how could it be.

What are the main rivals to the main thing we like about 40k - the highly fleshed out setting? All I know of is Warpath which doesn't come close yet, but it's rapid expansion gives me hope. 3 gaming systems set inside it all fleshing out the setting in various ways are making it very immersive for me. For example, a new race is created for the Dreadball game (the insectoid Z'zor), and we start clamouring to have it as a faction in Deadzone and Warpath because it's an awesome concept. You also get cross polination in Deadzone missions where you have to protect Dreadball MVPs, and the more in depth Dreadball game inside a Deadzone game that's been bandied around where 2 players are playing Dreadball, 1 team is attacking (ie. rebels to make a political statement) and another is defending (ie. enforcers).

The Kings of War setting is slowly getting fleshed out, but no where near as rapidly as the Warpath one from what I can see. Warmahordes have a setting but it doesn't seem very deep to me yet and I'm not sure how quickly it's developing. Are there any others that are at a stage you get into yet? Other than Star Wars for x-wing ; p

edit: Speaking of Z'zor, I have a living, breathing one IRL now! (2 weeks and going strong, found him in the yard)

I haven't left GW, but have dabbled in various other scales/periods/rulesets.

If you are limiting yourself to only one game/period/scale/ruleset/genre you are missing out.

 Yonan wrote:
What are the main rivals to the main thing we like about 40k - the highly fleshed out setting?

There isn't, IMO, and that's part of why I think a lot of people stay with 40k/WHFB (unless they're just masochists and think it's fine as long as they buy off eBay). KoW setting is still fairly generic, although I like it. Warpath's fluff is pretty lousy IMO, but the rules look good.

Have you kept up with the new fluff coming out with the Deadzone stuff? It's starting to get pretty in depth imo! But largely as I figured yeah, not much competition on the depth of setting front.

 Yonan wrote:
Have you kept up with the new fluff coming out with the Deadzone stuff? It's starting to get pretty in depth imo! But largely as I figured yeah, not much competition on the depth of setting front.

Honestly, I need to buy Deadzone. It looked really cool (like Necromunda).

Definitely look into it if you haven't, I linked some good videos for it on the previous page. They don't go over the fluff so much (though Beasts of War did do videos covering the factions too) but show the gameplay, box contents, terrain etc. I didn't play Mordheim or Necromunda but yeah, supposedly it's pretty much a great replacement for them.

I think Warmachine's fluff gets very in depth the more you look into it. The Iron Kingdoms RPG books has TONS of details and stories from the settings. I like it because it follows the flow and feel of history. (As a historian I like that.)

 Yonan wrote:
What are the main rivals to the main thing we like about 40k - the highly fleshed out setting? All I know of is Warpath which doesn't come close yet, but it's rapid expansion gives me hope.

Warpath isn't even close yet, but there are universes that do try. The one that definitely suprasses 40k is Battletech. The size of the battletech universe is smaller than the 40k universe, but the depth and detail puts 40k to shame. Like 40k, BT has alot of novels, but they also have an online fiction e-zine that's been going for almost a decade. Also, the game hasn't changed much, so nearly every sourcebook and expansion is still valid. Thus, rather than republishing fluff, the timeline continues forward with galaxy spanning arcs for characters, factions, etc. so each crop of new supplements add new information. Also, the depth to which the various cultures, armies, technologies, etc have been explained.

The giant stompy robot flavor isn't for everyone, but it's hard to deny that the setting is more fleshed out that Warhammer 40k.

Warmachine fluff is now being written by Larry Correia, New York Times best selling author and Hugo nominee (science fiction's most prestigious award). If you don't like Warmachine's fluff, read his story and then decide.

Past: I've been tabletop gaming for many years, and the main reason I got into it was the ability to create my own models. My main game was Heroclix and felt that the 'multiverse teamup' aspect was a fine system for importing characters I loved from other universes. Sadly, the game died at my venue, leaving me with nothing to do. A few of my friends were long time players of 40k and a few others joined in. I felt it was a great opportunity to hone my modeling skills and step up from a small scale skirmish game to large scale strategy.

Present: While the lore and technically superior models sharpened my artisan skills, the game itself strait-jacketed my imagination. If I wanted to play a model of Patton, in clix, no prob. In 40k, I'd have to find a grand and 6 months time and effort to build a new army. (He doesn't exactly fit in with orks or Slaanesh.) Speaking of the good General, I think he would fail miserably at a game which rewards cheese combos over tactical thinking. Still I enjoyed it as much as I could. Then GW went from greedy to desperate. 7th killed off a large chunk of the player base here. The evisceration of models from Guard left a bad taste in my mouth. Finally the ork codex proved to me that nobody at GW gave a tinker's damn. Should I play 40k for the models I can't afford, the story that never progresses, or the lovecraftianly tangled rules? Feh.

Future: Long story short, I'm selling the majority of my stuff, only keeping my personally built non-GW models for possible games in the hopefully less grim derp future. In the mean time I'm delving into the gorgeous models of Malifaux, the tight rules of Warmahordes, the X-Wing games with their large player base, and the inexpensive fast paced and addictively cerebral gameplay of Dice Masters.

Why I left: 6th ed was basically a hundred little nerfs/randomizations that wrecked my Wyche Cult/Homunculi Coven Dark Eldar and Tyranids. While I considered going straight Kabal, prices had escalated to the point that I wasn't very interested. I also didn't really have any way to deal with flyers (which several of my regular opponents loved). Since then, nothing has really caught my interest enough to get me back into it. While I still enjoy Fantasy, the general apathy around that game makes it too hard to find an opponent.

What I play now: X-wing and Magic mostly (those are the easiest to find/make opponents for). Warmachine and Infinity when I find opponents, but opponents are harder to find (as the only non -GW store is a bit of an expedition to get to).

If the fluff talk isn't derailing (it's the main reason people like 40k, but if it is I'll stop/remove it):

I've known about battletech since mechwarrior 2 on the PC and I do like my giant stompy robots, but I didn't realize it had much of an expanded universe though I know it's had a number of PC games and the tabletop game(s). I shall look into it!

I'll check that warmachine book Musashi, but it's not so much the quality as the quantity of it that I was referring to. There's just so much of it for 40k, 10k years of it with 2 periods heavily fleshed out.

I'm really hanging out for the Deadzone books coming with Wave 2 for the fluff to try to immerse myself in the Warpath universe. I think that'll help motivate me to paint my Deadzone armies up and probably con me into starting Warpath when they launch the Kickstarter for it. It's *that* important to me hehe.

 Yonan wrote:
If the fluff talk isn't derailing (it's the main reason people like 40k, but if it is I'll stop/remove it):

I've known about battletech since mechwarrior 2 on the PC and I do like my giant stompy robots, but I didn't realize it had much of an expanded universe though I know it's had a number of PC games and the tabletop game(s). I shall look into it!

Cool.
Also, note that even though alot of folks aren't' fond of the classic Battletech "board" game, there is now an "Alpha Strike" ruleset in the same universe that is a faster playing game, on 3d terrain (instead of hexes) with streamlined rules and more units. It's not a tournament-ready set of rules, as it has the same kind of balance issues as the original game. However, it's a fun game and definitely captures the feel of the BT universe.

It can be a hard universe to get into as it has been built over 30 years and has advanced about 150 years or so in game years (though there are "historical" sourcebooks that also go hundreds of years into the "Past") so there are different era's in the history and I think that over 100 game books (not counting novels) have been published. You can read more about the universe here:
http://bg.battletech.com
The new-to tab has good information for the beginner, and the clearinghouse for all info BT is the Sarna.net wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
Any BT term you hear likely has an entry.
Enjoy and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

I'm a D&D trueblood who picked up 40K as a sideline. One of my friends brought over the Rogue Trader rules and I played off and on until 2nd edition - primarily as Space Marines. After having my eyes beat out several times by chaos armies, I dropped the game, though I still collected some of the miniatures - mainly whatever vehicles I could get my hands on, such as the Armorcast Baneblade & Shadowsword. At one point, I picked up an Eldar Army for my brother's use. He never did - I think he got burned out on 40K as well.

When Tau were released (I think in 4E?), I picked up an army with the intention to play, and it's the only army I have that's fully painted. Never did to play though, was too busy with D&D - until 4E D&D. When Necrons were recently redone at the end of 5th, I picked that army up. By that time, I had a 10-year-old son, and to my horror, he wanted a CSM army - but I think to my credit, I still got one for him. I actually started playing and collecting the latest codexes and armies - figured I'd have a good five years before the game rolled over to the next edition. I put together a partial Orc army, a full Tyranid army, a full Necron army, expanded my Tau and painted the Eldar, gathered a mechanized Imperial Guard army (replete with a Knight) and enlarged my Space Marines Chapter to two companies worth of figures and vehicles (and Grey Knight allies to face those pesky daemons). Then 7th came along and I said f* it, I've got what I want, don't need more.

So, been playing some 6E 40K, but also picked up X-wing & Attack Wing, Bolt Action and Flames of War. Right now I'm sort of floundering, trying to decide what game I really want to run with.

So far, X-wing is winning.

After waffling for a few months now, I decided to sell all my 40k and my Fantasy. I will be keeping a small pile that will be my "I want to paint 40k" pile and if GW someday makes Blood Angels (and the game) good again, I'll jump back in with both feet.

Until then, who want's to cheat fate, play like they have a pair, or trigger some AROs?

Well, the games bored me. I didn't start tabletop gaming with GW games ( I started with Chainmail, the old TSR game), and I won't end tabletop gaming with GW. It was a phase. There were some fun times. But, the game grew stale and into such a production with all the minis on the table, and so much dice rolling. There were greener pastures elsewhere. So I went. Malifaux 1e, then Infinity, along with plenty of board games and LCGs. There are so many fun and interesting games out there that it seems almost criminal to restrict oneself to just one game. So I don't.

 Yonan wrote:
What are the main rivals to the main thing we like about 40k - the highly fleshed out setting?

Warmahordes have a setting but it doesn't seem very deep to me yet and I'm not sure how quickly it's developing.

Hi Yonan,

The simple fact is that you have not looked hard enough Yonan. Warmachine has a fantastic setting, and it has been developing for quite a long time now. Did you know it originally started off as a D20 RPG setting using the DnD 3.5 OSL rules? this was back when the Witchfire Trilogy was their first outing. And that was well over ten years ago now, and the fluff has been constantly developed.

I’ll be honest. I’’m always that bit disappointed and annoyed when people post that the setting isn’t very deep, or hasn’t developed. Such as what you have said. I understand you are probably saying it more from lack of familiarity as much as anything else, but nonetheless you are perpetuating a falsehood, and it really does grind my gears that people continue to do it. the fluff? its there. its simply not true to suggest what you are suggesting. And I can back my statements up. Firstly, you have not only the fiction, and short stories in the various rules books, FOW books and expansions. I have to give a shout out to the Retiribution FOW book in particular –its fantastic, and really brings the race to life. you have frequent short stories and novella published throughout the No Quarter magazine. Ever wonder what made magnus such a ruthless character? its there. Did you wonder what happened to kallus at the end of Domination when he was “captured” by the skorne? read up on it, and you’ll see him exploring the ruins of a dragon worshipping elven conclave. The end of Apotheosis is in the NQ magazine too. Plenty other small bits of fiction too. And not just fiction. Read the Gavyn Kyle files and the Guts and Gears articles which go into rather exhaustive detail expanding on the characters, histories and deeds of the various named characters and other peoples that inhabit the setting. Guts n Gears goes into great detail about actual unit types, like doom reavers, or long riders, and their background and histories. The magazine itself is fantastic, and regularly provides other content for the RPG as well.

Look beyond what is a pblished rag. check out the Skull Island Expedition novels. Some of them are creaxking good reads, and genuine page turners. Into the Storm, Extraordinary Zoology, and the Warcaster Chronicles are top of the list. brilliant, fun reads. Really bring the world to life.

And beyond this. Look at the RPG material. I have all of it. Going back to the D20 material. I have it specifically for the fluff. And what fluff there is! Its amazing. its not just stories of battles, and who won where and when. It explores the setting, the entertainment, crimes and punishment, trade, education, cosmology, government, described the towns, cities, famous persons and locations. its old now but the D20 character guide and world guide are fantastic. the latter is over 400 pages of detail describing 4,000 years of history, as well as the cultures and mores of all the factions. Look at the Monsternomicons- the second one has a huge piece on the Skorne Empire and all its houses, and history as well as great details on the various monsters and races that inhabit immoren. the RPG material has been revamped into a proprietary system that runs very well alongside the wargame (and both share a lot of the same ‘DNA’). have a look through the IKRPG sourcebooks if you get a chance. the core rules, five fingers: port of deceit, and kings, nations and gods are all fantastic sources. Upcoming is the iron kingdoms: unleased book which will cover all the wilderness areas, and bring in the tharn, farrow, pygs and other races. Believe me when I say the setting is developed. It’s a living, breathing, well thought out, and believable setting. Its not grimdark. It is gritty. It is violent. And harsh. Its vivid, colourful, characterful, deep, endearing and enthralling. It’s a universe you can get lost in repeatedly, and enjoy every second of it. I dip my head into the books, and when I come up for air, I can taste the soot on the tip of my tongue, and smell the whiff of burning coal and oil.

So yes, you are wrong Yonan. Very wrong. the setting is both developed, continueally being developed and very, very deep and gripping. check it out. But don’t say what you’ve said – please. its simply wrong.

And as a final piece of note, go onto the PP forums and post a question, and the lead writer of the background material – Doug Seacat - will probably come to the rescue and discuss all the features himself and enlighten you. I cant imagine Jervis expanding on a particular war the Space Wolves fought in!

Yes! That exactly. I have the Iron Kingdoms books and the wealth of lore, setting and characters I think is deeper than 40k. It's not the same story copy and pasted edition to edition. It feels like a living world instead of a parody of one.

Deadnight wrote:

Hi Yonan,

The simple fact is that you have not looked hard enough Yonan. Warmachine has a fantastic setting, and it has been developing for quite a long time now. Did you know it originally started off as a D20 RPG setting using the DnD 3.5 OSL rules? this was back when the Witchfire Trilogy was their first outing. And that was well over ten years ago now, and the fluff has been constantly developed….

Spoiler:

I’ll be honest. I’’m always that bit disappointed and annoyed when people post that the setting isn’t very deep, or hasn’t developed. Such as what you have said. I understand you are probably saying it more from lack of familiarity as much as anything else, but nonetheless you are perpetuating a falsehood, and it really does grind my gears that people continue to do it. the fluff? its there. its simply not true to suggest what you are suggesting. And I can back my statements up. Firstly, you have not only the fiction, and short stories in the various rules books, FOW books and expansions. I have to give a shout out to the Retiribution FOW book in particular –its fantastic, and really brings the race to life. you have frequent short stories and novella published throughout the No Quarter magazine. Ever wonder what made magnus such a ruthless character? its there. Did you wonder what happened to kallus at the end of Domination when he was “captured” by the skorne? read up on it, and you’ll see him exploring the ruins of a dragon worshipping elven conclave. The end of Apotheosis is in the NQ magazine too. Plenty other small bits of fiction too. And not just fiction. Read the Gavyn Kyle files and the Guts and Gears articles which go into rather exhaustive detail expanding on the characters, histories and deeds of the various named characters and other peoples that inhabit the setting. Guts n Gears goes into great detail about actual unit types, like doom reavers, or long riders, and their background and histories. The magazine itself is fantastic, and regularly provides other content for the RPG as well.

Look beyond what is a pblished rag. check out the Skull Island Expedition novels. Some of them are creaxking good reads, and genuine page turners. Into the Storm, Extraordinary Zoology, and the Warcaster Chronicles are top of the list. brilliant, fun reads. Really bring the world to life.

And beyond this. Look at the RPG material. I have all of it. Going back to the D20 material. I have it specifically for the fluff. And what fluff there is! Its amazing. its not just stories of battles, and who won where and when. It explores the setting, the entertainment, crimes and punishment, trade, education, cosmology, government, described the towns, cities, famous persons and locations. its old now but the D20 character guide and world guide are fantastic. the latter is over 400 pages of detail describing 4,000 years of history, as well as the cultures and mores of all the factions. Look at the Monsternomicons- the second one has a huge piece on the Skorne Empire and all its houses, and history as well as great details on the various monsters and races that inhabit immoren. the RPG material has been revamped into a proprietary system that runs very well alongside the wargame (and both share a lot of the same ‘DNA’). have a look through the IKRPG sourcebooks if you get a chance. the core rules, five fingers: port of deceit, and kings, nations and gods are all fantastic sources. Upcoming is the iron kingdoms: unleased book which will cover all the wilderness areas, and bring in the tharn, farrow, pygs and other races. Believe me when I say the setting is developed. It’s a living, breathing, well thought out, and believable setting. Its not grimdark. It is gritty. It is violent. And harsh. Its vivid, colourful, characterful, deep, endearing and enthralling. It’s a universe you can get lost in repeatedly, and enjoy every second of it. I dip my head into the books, and when I come up for air, I can taste the soot on the tip of my tongue, and smell the whiff of burning coal and oil.

So yes, you are wrong Yonan. Very wrong. the setting is both developed, continueally being developed and very, very deep and gripping. check it out. But don’t say what you’ve said – please. its simply wrong.

And as a final piece of note, go onto the PP forums and post a question, and the lead writer of the background material – Doug Seacat - will probably come to the rescue and discuss all the features himself and enlighten you. I cant imagine Jervis expanding on a particular war the Space Wolves fought in

!

Thanks for posting that. I've heard from folks who enjoy WM background, but I didn't realize that the RPG goes back so far. Game universes with an RPG or RPG elements definitely tend to have better developed universes.

 Eilif wrote:


Thanks for posting that. I've heard from folks who enjoy WM background, but I didn't realize that the RPG goes back so far. Game universes with an RPG or RPG elements definitely tend to have better developed universes.

the RPG came first

apparently, they were making minis for the IKRPG,and came round to making their first warjack, which was a big hulk of a model. And so i heard, they realised if they wanted to either make a bit of money, or not have the jack sink the new company, they'd have to sell lots of them. best way to do that? as a wargame. you can see the differences in the "old" RPG based Iron kingdoms,which has a rather "romantic" twist (ie modern nation, aggressive, imperialistic nation, religious fanatic nation and undead malarkey) but was primarily an RPG sandbox - it was a traditional RPG setting undergoing an industrial revolution, with some twists. With the wargame as driver, they had to push the setting and the fluff to back the wargame, and have the world on a permanent war footing.

http://docs8.chomikuj.pl/2652170480,PL,0,0,Iron-Kingdoms-Witchfire-Trilogy-Collected-Edition.pdf

this one was printed in 2005 i think, but it orginally goes back to 2000 or 2001 when PP were formed. (my copy of the witchfire trilogy says 2001)

and for the eagle eyed amongst you,PP had the famous and much loved easter eggs in the legal terms and conditions even then! "Alexia can be quite protective of her copyrights, and you dont want to mess with Alexia" indeed.

The Warmachine world is very well developed - most people miss out on a lot of it though because...well, I am not sure. It isn't like PP has been hiding it exactly. If you look, you will find it easily enough.

For sci-fi, another well developed gaming world other than Warmachine and Battletech is Traveller. The RPG spanned 30+ years of development, with a hundred or so books and other supplements. Striker and Striker II are actually pretty good wargames based within the Traveller universe (written for 15mm...easily adapted to other scales). It is interesting in that you can take primitive armies fighting with bows and mounted on large animals and send them against advanced armies fighting with grav tanks and power armor.

http://www.rpgnow.com/browse.php?keywords=traveller&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto=&x=0&y=0

Several books, a couple video games and most recently an attempt (still going on) to produce a pilot for a sci-fi TV show based within the Traveller universe.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/d20e/spinward-traveller-tv-pilot

There are plenty of non-gaming universes which lend themselves well to gaming too. Of course, official miniatures are more difficult to come by (which is fine...there is no shortage of "generic" sci-fi miniatures) and you will need to find a rules set to run them with (universal rules like Tomorrow's War and Defiance have never let me down though).

Slightly less developed would be universes like SpaceMaster from ICE. It was written for both RPG and table top wargames using cardboard counters (adaptable with little thought to miniatures...). The rules and background were developed over 10+ years, and like most RPG settings - there is a heck of a lot more background to it than what you find in a wargame rulebook.

http://www.rpgnow.com/browse.php?keywords=spacemaster&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto=&x=0&y=0

Finally, there is the Kitchen Sink setting of Rifts. 40 some odd books, plus 50+ Rifter magazines comes out to 6000+ pages of RPG depth material. The setting lends itself well to wargames too, as there are plenty of factions organized enough to field armies against each other. Being a Kitchen Sink setting you have everything from psychics and magic to big stompy robots fighting dragons over the lost continent of Atlantis... There are plenty of issues...but if you want a developed setting that lets you be free to roam, it will certainly allow for that. No official wargame rules though, so you will need to use a universal system or adapt other rules to fit.

http://palladium-store.com/1001/Rifts-Categories.html
_____________________

Probably better to avoid linking to PDFs like that...just because PP is less likely to harass Dakka regarding it, doesn't make it any more acceptable.

I'll be honest Deadnight, you came across as very condescending there - the only person in the thread to do so, you should probably check that. Not a conversation that I think will progress well so I'll leave it there.

edit: Sean, it does seem as though RPGs in general develop the setting a lot, I've known about traveller and Rifts for a long time - I only recently started tabletop wargaming, but I RPGed back during D&D through to 3.5 with other systems mixed in. I loved the depth of some of those settings like planescape, dark sun, forgotten realms - all of which you can sort of include as one setting I guess as travel is possible between them. Was hoping alternity would take off but sadly it died after a couple years. The fluff from the RPGs for 40k is some of the best I've found, really enjoyed reading through the Only War, Dark heresy, Deathwatch and Rogue Trader rulebooks.

 Yonan wrote:
I'll be honest Deadnight, you came across as very condescending there - the only person in the thread to do so, you should probably check that. Not a conversation that I think will progress well so I'll leave it there.

Tone is a hard thing to interpret when it comes to text. I can see when someone is pointing out that you are factually wrong, interpreting condescension is far more likely though.

The fluff from the RPGs for 40k is some of the best I've found, really enjoyed reading through the Only War, Dark heresy, Deathwatch and Rogue Trader rulebooks.

It's strange that the best material for the 40k universe is not put out by GW.

Yes...no one does the background for GW's universe like everyone other than GW...

Seriously, whether it is background books from BL or FW (yes...I know, technically GW - but out from under the thumb of the studio) as well as FFG with the RPG.

On the fantasy side - we have been using (as our core game system...we dabble with dozens of them) TSR's Battlesystem and playing through various D&D worlds (Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun mostly...with expeditionary forces doing planar raids to the Abyss). I just started sculpting a new Dark Sun inspired Elf army that I hope to have finished by Christmas (already have 4 different "armies" for Dark Sun...Thrikreen, Elves and Gith remaining to complete the core armies from the Dragon Kings book).

Battlesystem is actually a pretty solid set of rules for fantasy gaming - and they are flexible enough that you can pretty well put any sort of army together. Even 25 years after it was first printed, I find it better than a lot of newer fantasy games. We have adapted and refined the conversion/creation rules some to take advantage of a computers ability to manage complex calculations - but other than that, not much has changed for us with the game.

 Eilif wrote:
The one that definitely suprasses 40k is Battletech. The size of the battletech universe is smaller than the 40k universe, but the depth and detail puts 40k to shame. Like 40k, BT has alot of novels, but they also have an online fiction e-zine that's been going for almost a decade. Also, the game hasn't changed much, so nearly every sourcebook and expansion is still valid. Thus, rather than republishing fluff, the timeline continues forward with galaxy spanning arcs for characters, factions, etc. so each crop of new supplements add new information. Also, the depth to which the various cultures, armies, technologies, etc have been explained.

That's the core difference between BTech and 40K. 40K is a setting. It has specific story lines, and a time line that spans thousands of years, but it's so open that you can pretty much do anything anywhere and justify it. BattleTech is a history. Everything from every single planet name, the required jumps to go from one to another and even the names of CEO's of major companies is defined within the BTech world. You can't just do anything like you can in 40K because BTech is very rigid. That's not necessarily a bad thing mind you, but it is a major structural difference between the two.

Alright, to side step this and go onto my tale why left GW (kind of):

Part one: Beginnings:

Alright, so I did not start off my wargaming career in 40k. I played some card games back in the day like, most of which I played was three: Magic: the Gathering, .Hack//enemy and Anachronism, which was kind of my introduction to Tabletop wargaming of sorts. Most often this was done at a local store before they closed down after the owner died. Before he died though, he showed me Warmachine in the mki format and my friend showed me Warhammer 40k and Fantasy. I bought a few things to try both games, and when the owner died, I went to playing 40k more since I had a Games Workshop near me. However, I kept the Warmachine stuff on the side for no particular reason. Played since the ending of 4th and mostly 5th, and 5th I enjoyed the most despite its problems. I played 40k and fantasy for a bit since I had a group to play and I did not drive for the time and could go out to father places.

Part two: Leavings:
After 6th edition came out for 40k and 8th for Fantasy, as well as the price hikes at the time, I debated on staying in the games and in the hobby in general since I did not like the direction the games too, and to be frank, I felt it was sub-par quality for the price the rules where going for. After a few more games with it, I kind of got fed up with it and almost decided to quick the hobby all together. Then I remembered I had a few things for Warmachine for a starting faction, I just needed to get the mkii two card. Although the drive up to the store was longer than the one to GW, I went to meet with the local Press Ganger. Which goes into my next part....

Part three: Moving Forward:
Playing a demo game of Warmachine, I had a blast with it, almost more than any game of 40k and fantasy I have ever played in my opinion. I also checked out Infinity, which I have known about a bit and wanted to give a go but did not have the time and that. Now in this day and age, I play a varied amount of games, the Tabletop wargames being Warmahordes, Infinity, and Nercomunda with a possibility of starting Mordheim, Malifaux, and possibly Flames of War with my dad. Well, I did not truly leave GW I guess, since I do trade for parts with others here and play the games they sadly do not support anymore. I also do like the setting to 40k (despite some opinions I have on it) very much, but I have FFG to help me with that with their RPG's and new 40k LCG they are coming out with and want to give a try.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
Alright, to side step this and go onto my tale why left GW (kind of):

Part one: Beginnings:

Alright, so I did not start off my wargaming career in 40k. I played some card games back in the day like, most of which I played was three: Magic: the Gathering, .Hack//enemy and Anachronism, which was kind of my introduction to Tabletop wargaming of sorts. Most often this was done at a local store before they closed down after the owner died. Before he died though, he showed me Warmachine in the mki format and my friend showed me Warhammer 40k and Fantasy. I bought a few things to try both games, and when the owner died, I went to playing 40k more since I had a Games Workshop near me. However, I kept the Warmachine stuff on the side for no particular reason. Played since the ending of 4th and mostly 5th, and 5th I enjoyed the most despite its problems. I played 40k and fantasy for a bit since I had a group to play and I did not drive for the time and could go out to father places.

Part two: Leavings:
After 6th edition came out for 40k and 8th for Fantasy, as well as the price hikes at the time, I debated on staying in the games and in the hobby in general since I did not like the direction the games too, and to be frank, I felt it was sub-par quality for the price the rules where going for. After a few more games with it, I kind of got fed up with it and almost decided to quick the hobby all together. Then I remembered I had a few things for Warmachine for a starting faction, I just needed to get the mkii two card. Although the drive up to the store was longer than the one to GW, I went to meet with the local Press Ganger. Which goes into my next part....

Part three: Moving Forward:
Playing a demo game of Warmachine, I had a blast with it, almost more than any game of 40k and fantasy I have ever played in my opinion. I also checked out Infinity, which I have known about a bit and wanted to give a go but did not have the time and that. Now in this day and age, I play a varied amount of games, the Tabletop wargames being Warmahordes, Infinity, and Nercomunda with a possibility of starting Mordheim, Malifaux, and possibly Flames of War with my dad. Well, I did not truly leave GW I guess, since I do trade for parts with others here and play the games they sadly do not support anymore. I also do like the setting to 40k (despite some opinions I have on it) very much, but I have FFG to help me with that with their RPG's and new 40k LCG they are coming out with and want to give a try.

When I played my first game of Warmachine I fell in love. This was the strategy game I've been waiting for. It scratched my itch that 40k just couldn't do.

My problem with Warmachine is that i love to get into Warmachine: I like the setting and the fluff and the fact that the rules are tight and good for competitive play. It's just that the aesthetic of the models doesn't appeal to me.

Maybe I'm just tired of heroically-proportioned models. This is why I'm collecting Infinity and Perry WotR now for my KoW army.