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blaktoof wrote:
METAL BAWKSES!

exactly

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, two new SW flyers will be available next time.
Not sure about their stats.
But do you like their look? Look too cubic for me.

It looks like the worst possible and laziest example of what I would imagine to be the accidental lovechild-abortion of a Stormtalon and Caestus ram.

It's like someone was just messing around with autocad files and stuck a shoebox with Caestus details where the Stormtalon's turret weapon was supposed to be and threw it into the Space Wolves release for a laugh. Either that or GW is just really desperate to get a flyer out for each codex book without putting much design effort into it.

Guys guys guys..... chill out for just a second, mmmmmkay?

It's a frickin' sci-fi universe we are talking about here. The rules of physics simply do not, and should not apply, at least as we know and understand them.

Who the hell cares if it looks like it wouldn't be able to fly? It's the aesthetic that matters, not if it would actually work as a subsonic aircraft.

It's a game!

If you don't like the look of it, that's fine. But don't feel like you have to justify your opinion by bitching about its ability as an aircraft. Remember, it doesn't actually exist

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:

It's a frickin' sci-fi universe we are talking about here. The rules of physics simply do not, and should not apply, at least as we know and understand them.

Who the hell cares if it looks like it wouldn't be able to fly?

It's the aesthetic that matters, not if it would actually work as a subsonic aircraft.

But the problem is that your mind views ability alongside the aesthetics. You can just look at something and imagine all the engineering problems that it's going to have to overcome just to be able to get off the ground. That's also kind of the problem with this.
Yes you could put in something that makes it overcome air friction.... or... just make the nose a bit less like a brick wall.
You could say it has omni-directional thrusters and anti-grav devices... or give it larger wings, larger standard engines, and better balanced design.
Most people can see the design and realize the glaring flaws that a could be easily overcome in the design phase to make it more efficient.

Yes with anti-grav magic you could literally have flying sofas and have them traveling at mach 8 with some magic air resistance negation field.
But that doesn't mean that you're going to like the look of a hovering sofa without maneuvering equipment getting into a dog fight. Just because you can make a giant flying wolfhead with a nose gun, doesn't mean you should expend all available resources to make it possible.

Yes, having a boxy APC or tank is one thing. But this is supposed to be a straight up flyer. The existing flyers don't look particularly aerodynamic, which is fine for game mechanics since it helps with the AV facings and helps them fit on the table better. But how is this thing supposed to hover? It's engines aren't anywhere close to its center of mass. It has no steering mechanism! These things look awful. And for the record, the storm raven is awful too.

The ad mech rubs it down with secret emperor oil that is obtained from the golden throne itself from a secret dark age of technology means, and mixed with Stormcheetah blood [matt ward did tell me this himself] Stormcheetahs are much like fenrisian wolves, but are actually fenrisian cats that are very fast. Thay are armed with frostfangs and frostclaws. That aside. It is well known that Magnus the Red, prior to falling to chaos was an avid stormcheetah collector, and his apartment boasted not 3 but 9 stormcheetahs. He took them with him when prospero burned but they turned on him and while he slept urinated their names on his books, and found there way into the warp to meet up with Draigo. Draigo has trained them to henceforth pee on any daemon primarchs hearts he might carve his name into from here on out, as that is his new thing.

when the holy oil is anointed unto any metal bawkses, they will be capable of anti gravity and flight.

true story.

Imperium vehicles appeal to people without imagination.

ImAGeek wrote:

Toofast wrote:
How about the fact that 99% of leagues and tournaments don't allow FW?

Who and what is this a reply to..?

The comments about 2 of them being the same price as a caestus. Good luck using a caestus in anything but friendly games. If I spent $180 on a model I would like to be able to use it whenever I want.

It looks too much like a caestus assault ram and a Storm talon had a lovechild.



+



looks rather silly. much like the Stormtalon and its stubby wings do.

I'm not sure I'd say "it has design hallmarks in common with other imperium fliers" is a bad thing though. it hints at a common ancestory

 TheSilo wrote:
Yes, having a boxy APC or tank is one thing. But this is supposed to be a straight up flyer. The existing flyers don't look particularly aerodynamic, which is fine for game mechanics since it helps with the AV facings and helps them fit on the table better. But how is this thing supposed to hover? It's engines aren't anywhere close to its center of mass. It has no steering mechanism! These things look awful. And for the record, the storm raven is awful too.

Maybe its because I am an ork at heart, but if they think it works, it will.

I'll just repost what I posted on the previous thread, to me, if it actually behaved like an assault ram, I'd probably be fine with it.

The Stormtalon looks stupid because, to me, it looks like an underwater vehicle. It looks like a fat little fish more than it looks like an aircraft. Canis Wolfborn's TW looks like a friggen pomeranian. No matter how much you tell me it's a giant vicious wolf, it looks like a pomeranian. The Thunderbolt and Marauder could not fly, or if they could they could only fly at very low speeds and extremely uncomfortably for the pilots, but they have the proportions of a WW2 plane so to me, they look kinda cool. The Thunderhawk and Stormeagle push the limits of wacky proportions (to me) but they still manage to pull it off and look cool. The Stormraven pushes those limits too far and looks stupid (for some reason Forge World typically manages to get better proportioned vehicles to my eye than GW proper).

We all have different limits and no amount of "space magic" can take something we perceive as stupid as suddenly looking awesome. To me, the Storm-wolfy-mc-wolf looks like a front heavy brick crossed with an irish terrier with tiny little wings that serve no purpose. It looks like something that might have a place being fired from one ship at another ship as a form of boarding and it looks maybe like something you'd fire at a giant futuristic fortification to do as much damage as possible (like a brick would do...) and then unleash some troops.

As an aircraft that's actually supposed to "fly" above a battlefield, making strafing runs and what not, it just looks too ill suited to the task which makes it look ugly as hell to me.

Yeah, sure, as a seaborne or spaceborne landing craft it looks fine (even if it still does look like a fething irish terrier), it just doesn't work for me as an aerial combat vehicle.

To me it looks like a rocket thats fired from a base or ship. It looks like it either bounces along the ground with the rockets propelling it forward until it reaches its target (if its accurately fired) and the surviving crew jump out and fight.

Or for the 'gunship' its fired in the same manner but the ship attempts to shoot the targets as it flies over them before it crashes into the ground.

They enforced my theory by adding armoured plating to the underside of the craft to help protect the cargo from being too harmed in transit.

In short, this thing cannot fly (which is expected) but it also doesnt look even remotely flyable (which is not fine).

For people who dont enjoy putting thought into designs or how things work etc, they may be fine with this vehicle. But for many who think about how things should work or could work this vehicle is probably a disaster.

In my opinion this flyer looks better than ALL THE OTHER GW flyers but I think those suck as well.

Overall, the one design bit they got right was its nose tilted to the ground. Because thats the only believable thing about this 'craft'.

Anything can fly with enough thrust.

Perhaps in the far future and grim darkness, engines are stupidly powerful to such a degree that the concept of aerodynamics can be for the most part ignored. Even with tiny little wings some aircraft can still fly due to their sheer power.
The real X-15 comes to mind, stubby wings and a massive Rocket Engine. That alongside anti-grav tech and multiple VTOL thrusters all over the place must keep them flying.

Reminds me of my Gmod Days where "aircraft" made my players had thrusters placed on the bottom of the wings and fuselage to keep them flying (as they were too lazy to use the "Fin" tool to give objects some semblance of lift). Where sheer brute force thrusters were used to fly and steer aircraft. besides that Hover balls welded to the aircraft made them into instant hover craft.

Stormflang still kinda silly though.

Looks more like an F-Zero racer than some sort military craft.

Also, if you take the top off the front section, it'll look like a dump/garbage space truck.

Its better than the Stormraven at least. With some larger wings, and more thrusters under the nose (it looks like its going to nose dive) it might look good.

Yet another opportunity for Chapter House Studios.

 Engine of War wrote:
Anything can fly with enough thrust.

Perhaps in the far future and grim darkness, engines are stupidly powerful to such a degree that the concept of aerodynamics can be for the most part ignored. Even with tiny little wings some aircraft can still fly due to their sheer power.
The real X-15 comes to mind, stubby wings and a massive Rocket Engine. That alongside anti-grav tech and multiple VTOL thrusters all over the place must keep them flying.

Reminds me of my Gmod Days where "aircraft" made my players had thrusters placed on the bottom of the wings and fuselage to keep them flying (as they were too lazy to use the "Fin" tool to give objects some semblance of lift). Where sheer brute force thrusters were used to fly and steer aircraft. besides that Hover balls welded to the aircraft made them into instant hover craft.

Stormflang still kinda silly though.

Yes but those rockets with small wings are also not square. They also arent incredibly front heavy. The SM flyer looks very heavy too.

Everything works against it except it being propelled stupidly fast before it burns out and crashes after its short flight.

I think with enough wingspan this flyer could be very cool. But needs bigger engines and wingspan. With those it will look far better than any other SM flyer out there.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Engine of War wrote:
Anything can fly with enough thrust.

Perhaps in the far future and grim darkness, engines are stupidly powerful to such a degree that the concept of aerodynamics can be for the most part ignored. Even with tiny little wings some aircraft can still fly due to their sheer power.
The real X-15 comes to mind, stubby wings and a massive Rocket Engine. That alongside anti-grav tech and multiple VTOL thrusters all over the place must keep them flying.

Reminds me of my Gmod Days where "aircraft" made my players had thrusters placed on the bottom of the wings and fuselage to keep them flying (as they were too lazy to use the "Fin" tool to give objects some semblance of lift). Where sheer brute force thrusters were used to fly and steer aircraft. besides that Hover balls welded to the aircraft made them into instant hover craft.

Stormflang still kinda silly though.

Yes but those rockets with small wings are also not square. They also arent incredibly front heavy. The SM flyer looks very heavy too.

Everything works against it except it being propelled stupidly fast before it burns out and crashes after its short flight.

I think with enough wingspan this flyer could be very cool. But needs bigger engines and wingspan. With those it will look far better than any other SM flyer out there.

it needs the wings off the ceastus (something it didn't inherit from the love-in, it somehow inherited its stormtalon fathers piddly wings)




I think its more a modeling issue for the square wings on many models. the ork wings have a better airfoil but if I remember right, the wings come in 2 pieces (bottom and top halves)

But I agree. The thing is front heavy. I tried to model a few aircraft in a game called X-plane once. lets just say.... I had to unfortunately use the "stupidly power engine" concept. expecially with trying to have wings with the cross section of a brick....

Never made a caestus (or will) as its more a space-borne craft. plus X-plane doesn't have any "anti grav" things to attach to aircraft.

EDIT: Nevermind, not really relevant.

So nobody at all wants to talk about its abilities? Shall I start a separate thread and leave this one about the aesthetics? Not trying to be glib, just wondering if people would rather this thread be kept about its looks?

Poly Ranger wrote:
So nobody at all wants to talk about its abilities? Shall I start a separate thread and leave this one about the aesthetics? Not trying to be glib, just wondering if people would rather this thread be kept about its looks?

I second that.

Poly Ranger wrote:
So nobody at all wants to talk about its abilities? Shall I start a separate thread and leave this one about the aesthetics? Not trying to be glib, just wondering if people would rather this thread be kept about its looks?

I think looks are far more important than abilities. It could auto kill 1 squad a turn, but its so ugly I would never buy it.

Thats just me though. But yea if thats what you want by all means go ahead. Im sure Space Wolf players wouldnt mind talking about its effectiveness.

One thing I wouldnt mind having a flyer for is carrying 16 models. Which this flyer can do.

Poly Ranger wrote:
So nobody at all wants to talk about its abilities? Shall I start a separate thread and leave this one about the aesthetics? Not trying to be glib, just wondering if people would rather this thread be kept about its looks?

If you want to talk about it's rules you need to start talking about it's rules. Feel free to do so, we don't need another thread. If you have something to say, just say it.

I just did create another thread. I did start talking about its rules. A big post. Nobody replied. I don't mind that, I realise people atm are more focused upon its looks since it is a new release. I just like discussing rules and uses in-game. I have created another thread to prevent a mix up of discussions on here as it looks like people are enjoying the aesthetics discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not meaning to 'thread steal' (is that a thing?), just thought it would be more convenient for everybody.

It's probably because at this point no one cares about its rules, we don't even know all of what's going to be in the codex yet alone what rules the rest of the codex will have.

To me it definitely seems very shooty for the points, but I'm not really sure it's worth spamming it.

I get what you mean about not knowing what would be in the rest of the dex, but that didn't stop mek gunz or flash gitz discussions for orks.
With the potential for LOWs focussed anti-tank may become even more important in 7th. Besides - the rest of the army can deal with troops if you let multiples of these flyers be your AA/AT.
I'll leave it at that though as I don't want to derail the aesthetics discussion.

It looks like a stormraven got caught having sex with a shipping container.

 chromedog wrote:
It looks like a stormraven got caught having sex with a shipping container.

Stormtalon more, and they're still in the act.

 TheSilo wrote:
If this were a boarding craft for ship-to-ship in space, then it'd be cool. Or if it were an amphibious landing craft.

But for a flyer, this thing is ugly. It looks like it's about to tip forward on it's nose and get stuck that way. It's worse than the Taurox.

Sorry, nothing's worse than the Taurox.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I just did create another thread. I did start talking about its rules. A big post. Nobody replied. I don't mind that, I realise people atm are more focused upon its looks since it is a new release. I just like discussing rules and uses in-game. I have created another thread to prevent a mix up of discussions on here as it looks like people are enjoying the aesthetics discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not meaning to 'thread steal' (is that a thing?), just thought it would be more convenient for everybody.

Got a link I cant seem to find it.