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 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
I really don't understand your statement regarding Ultramarines at the end.

Although Blood Angels follow the way a Chapter should be set out they act very differently for instance allowing their ASM to take dedicated transports. This could be seen as Commander Tactics but all tactics are sanctioned by the Codex so to me this bit of fluff has always contradicted itself. Blood angels also have numerous weapons they don't share with the tech priests and I would like to think a fully compliant chapter would.

I know you disagree but I just see Sanguinary Guard being our VV and some fluff will be rewritten to reflect this.

Tabletop BA doesn't really follow fluff BA though. Everytime they update the army, they throw in new stuff to make them more unique. However, as far as the fluff goes, BA is not a primarily-jump army, they're still largely built up of Tactical Squads.

I agree that BAs are a Codex Astartes chapter. People often mistake the BAs acceptance of the Black Rage as an embrace of the Red Thirst. The non assault squads need something aside from FC. The problem im seeing is the help they get being some useless CC buff that does nothing to help Tacs and Devs in an edition that makes it difficult to get in to CC.

What else are the BAs famous for that could help non assault units? Maybe those units get cheaper dedicated transport?

It says in the fluff that BA assault squads are always full, even if it means tac squads are undermanned, largely due to the BA love of flight. This is why assault marines are troops.

I just want the codex to come out before the end of the year. If it doesnt i may actually lose my mind.

I really hope we get our god damn psychic powers back. I stuck with the overpriced BA through most of 6th, but when libby dreads and mephy became limp noodles, I painted my BA blue and slapped CF decals on em. I really, really hope that the new dex will give me reason to break out the red base coat again, but after GW let the BA players writhe in the excrement that used to be an awesome dex for almost 2 ywars, I'm not optimistic at all. Even if my heart will always be with BA.

They're going to be turned into red Ultramarines. Most of their cool perks taken away. And they may get a absolutely horrid model. Happened to space wolves.

A few weeks ago, I was talking with a friend about using Blood Angel rules for my Chaos Marines, primarily to use Dreadnoughts that are actually good. I joked about how my "Blood Angels" would explain to their Imperial allies that my Forgefiend was in fact one of their "Bloodnoughts with Bloodcannons". This may become a reality.

Or not. Likely changes will be to align units shared with Codex: Space Marines to the stats found in that book, point reductions for most things (with possibility of a strange increase in points for a unit that was already overcosted), the removal of most special rules (the Fast rule becoming a paid-for vehicle upgrade), the special character special rules turned into Warlord Traits (but toned down), either Mephiston or Dante moved to Lord of War*, some lessened and randomised versions of old Codex psychic powers, and Chapter Relics. Possible additions are a new vehicle (Predator, Dreadnought or Stormtalon variant are possibilities), and a unique weapon type. People have been suggesting rad-weapons, which wouldn't be a bad thing, but I fear GW will surprise us on this and not in a good way. Then again, the Dark Angels got a number of unique plasma weapons, so perhaps the Blood Angels will get "inferno" (melta) weapons? I'm not sure what exactly they could do with melta, but it's a possibility.

* While Logan did get a wolf chariot (which is just about proof that there is a God and that It is cruel), the Wolves have always been more ridiculous than the Blood Angels on the "overstepping the theme" front, so I (tentatively) doubt that we'll see a coffin/angel/blood chariot or anything quite as stupid.

EDIT: A Predator variant featuring the heavy version of their new weapon would be quite nice. I believe that would be called a rad-cleanser, but I'm not sure.

Rad cleansers are already a thing, just look at the new rules from fw for their knight.
I think it'd really fit the blood angels.

I can see Sang Priests becoming a non-slot hq, taking 0-3 per detachment or some such. I can't see it becoming a sgt upgrade, although I do think it would be cool - certainly make getting a sang priest in a drop pod/rhino easier.

I think our special formation will be fast heavy, like a normal CAD but with 6 FA slots.

I can't see the Rad weapons happening, doesn't seem the fit the high aesthetic and flashy nature of the BAs. Although Jump pack devs with the HH era suspender webs or what ever they are would be awesome.

I realised the other day that every entry in our current dex has either a model or a plastic kit, so hopefully no units will be dropped. Equally I can't imagine what new kits there could be...maybe a DC tycho model...maybe we'll get acess to other vanilla SM units (cents, thundefire, talon, stalker/hunter) but who knows, seems if they did that they'd be no point playing vanilla...Maybe we will get something new. A special BA termie kit would be cool, especially since we don't have a dedicated termie unit, but I suppose sang guard sort of fill that 2+ role.

I hope we get a lot more options be build HQs, I find our current options limiting due to how ineffective they are, when was the last time you saw a BA Captain (I admit I sometimes run them naked as a cheap HQ and hide them in a storm raven the entire game...)

D

 Dezstiny wrote:
D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)

Did you forget that you can attach IC's to him now?

Inquisitors have 3 wounds and they are 25 points each...

Meph makes it down the field every time for me.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Dezstiny wrote:
D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)

Did you forget that you can attach IC's to him now?

Inquisitors have 3 wounds and they are 25 points each...

Meph makes it down the field every time for me.

That's brilliant. Do you give the inquisitor anything? Like PA or TDA?

D

Kangodo wrote:
Rad cleansers are already a thing, just look at the new rules from fw for their knight.
I think it'd really fit the blood angels.

That's why I said it! I just wasn't sure which existing rad-weapon would be the "heavy" one. I assumed that the new Knight would feature the heavy one, but I didn't actually look at its stats.

On fitting in with Blood Angels, read the FW blurbs for Legion Destroyer Squads. Doing something considered borderline taboo by other elements of the Imperium is absolutely the Blood Angel style!

EDIT:

Forge World, Legion Destroyer Squad wrote:Considered dishonourable by some Legions, who eschew them altogether or make little use of them, the arsenal of a Destroyer squad includes rad-weapons, bio-alchem munitions and the crawling horror of phosphex. These hellish devices, which irrevocably taint the ground upon which they are used, have been forbidden by the Emperor’s own edict, and with good reason. For during the long nightmare of the Age of Strife, many life-sustaining colony worlds were rendered barren by their use, becoming uninhabitable charnel houses where once these verdant planets held thriving civilisations.

It is little wonder therefore that those who wield these potent weapons of destruction are heavily protected from their effects – the fire-blackened and chem-scalded Destroyers being clad in modified and reinforced suits of power armour, essential to withstand the pernicious rad-taint of their own weaponry. Often shunned and distrusted by their Legion brothers, the Destroyers are deemed a necessary evil at best during these violent times, yet none can deny the potency of their relic-weapons.

The idea is nice, but I think the mechanic is too complicated for a standard GW-army.

I've always preferred stuff like Melta/flamers for Blood Angels, for some reason it seems to fit their 'in your face'-style.
Rad cleanser is great, it's basically a poisoned flamer, which they could easily implement (even without the Rad-phage rule).
It also fits the Fast vehicle and the Deep Strike-aspect of the BA.

I meant rad/chem weapons in general, not just Destroyer Squads in 40k! They really aren't seen often enough. Outside of 30k, the only chem weapon I know of is the Bane Wolf's.

 evildrcheese wrote:
I can see Sang Priests becoming a non-slot hq, taking 0-3 per detachment or some such. I can't see it becoming a sgt upgrade, although I do think it would be cool - certainly make getting a sang priest in a drop pod/rhino easier.

I think our special formation will be fast heavy, like a normal CAD but with 6 FA slots.

I can't see the Rad weapons happening, doesn't seem the fit the high aesthetic and flashy nature of the BAs. Although Jump pack devs with the HH era suspender webs or what ever they are would be awesome.

I realised the other day that every entry in our current dex has either a model or a plastic kit, so hopefully no units will be dropped. Equally I can't imagine what new kits there could be...maybe a DC tycho model...maybe we'll get acess to other vanilla SM units (cents, thundefire, talon, stalker/hunter) but who knows, seems if they did that they'd be no point playing vanilla...Maybe we will get something new. A special BA termie kit would be cool, especially since we don't have a dedicated termie unit, but I suppose sang guard sort of fill that 2+ role.

I hope we get a lot more options be build HQs, I find our current options limiting due to how ineffective they are, when was the last time you saw a BA Captain (I admit I sometimes run them naked as a cheap HQ and hide them in a storm raven the entire game...)

D

Approved

Now that I think of it, Sanguinary Priests might fit the "unslotted HQ slot" really well. The uprgade option just doesn't seem likely to me.
My friend and I talked about the codex as well and his theory is that if we get a formation as well (most likely), DoA will be removed as an army special rule and become available trouhg that formation. Don't know, might happen.

I'm not sure of the new kit. The universal SM Assault Squad box might get a re-working with the codex. We got our special snowflake stuff couple of editions ago.
Stalker/Hunter, not sure. Cents, might be. Thunderfire, hardly. Talon, propably.

And yes please, more options to Captain!

I highly doubt Centurions, Thunderfires or the Stalker/Hunter will go to the Blood Angels. A Storm Talon variant (or just a Storm Talon) is quite probable, though. I'd quite like for the Blood Angels to get something like the Nephilim Jetfighter, although more successful in the attempt to fix the Storm Talon.

 evildrcheese wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Dezstiny wrote:
D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)

Did you forget that you can attach IC's to him now?

Inquisitors have 3 wounds and they are 25 points each...

Meph makes it down the field every time for me.

That's brilliant. Do you give the inquisitor anything? Like PA or TDA?

D

Nope, they are there to die, 3 wounds extra, and they all get Look Out Sir on a 2+, I usually run 4 inquisitors with meph because plasma will ID the inquisitors.

I'm betting there will be a combo kit with DC and the generic assault marines, like the SW got with the skyclaws and long fangs.

JuniorRS13 wrote:
I'm betting there will be a combo kit with DC and the generic assault marines, like the SW got with the skyclaws and long fangs.

They already have a DC kit that lets you build just Assault Marines.

 Anpu42 wrote:

JuniorRS13 wrote:
I'm betting there will be a combo kit with DC and the generic assault marines, like the SW got with the skyclaws and long fangs.

They already have a DC kit that lets you build just Assault Marines.

I think he means the DC kit and the assault marine kit will be sold together, potentially with a slight discount if current trends persist.

D

 DeathReaper wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Dezstiny wrote:
D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)

Did you forget that you can attach IC's to him now?

Inquisitors have 3 wounds and they are 25 points each...

Meph makes it down the field every time for me.

That's brilliant. Do you give the inquisitor anything? Like PA or TDA?

D

Nope, they are there to die, 3 wounds extra, and they all get Look Out Sir on a 2+, I usually run 4 inquisitors with meph because plasma will ID the inquisitors.

I think that the problem here is that three of them lowers the toughness of Mephiston to three.
Might still be good tho. Mephy might benefit greatly of one set of Rad grenades (instakill to T4) or Pychotroke to boost assault.

BaalSNAFU wrote:
I really hope we get our god damn psychic powers back.

Why? None of the BA powers are special anymore. Some are straight out copied by BRB powers, others are really similar.
Blood Boil- (Sanctic) Purge Soul or (Pyromancy) Spontaneus Combustion
Fear of the Darkness- (Telepathy) Terrify
Might of Heroes- (Biomancy) Warp Speed
Shackle Soul- (Telepathy) Dominate
Shield of Sanguinus- (Telekinesis) Telekine Dome
Smite- (Biomancy) Smite
Blood Lance- (Pyromancy) Molten Beam
Sanguine Sword- (Biomancy) Iron Arm
Unleash Rage- (Divination) Prescience
Wings of Sanguinus- (Telekinesis) Levitation

What I'd love to see, model-wise, is a reworked Assault Squad done to the same level as the brilliant new tactical squad, and with 10 guys in it for around £30.

I'm thinking fast vehicles will be an upgrade rather than a built in cost...it'd be super cool if they allowed LRs to be fast, especially if they lose DS.

I wonder if Libby dreads will remain as an upgrade or get their own slot...I'm basing this on the new codex formats with a model picture rather than art, seems a shame to not have both the Libby and furioso as entries. Makes little difference I guess.

The LoW is an interesting Q. Obviously Meth is a scary beast with what's basically a Primarch's profile, but will they use the chapter master as per wolves/gk. There's even a case for the Sanguinor due to his slightly mythical status...

I'm hopeful about the relics and what we might get, I thought the SW wolves were both fluffy and had potential to use on the tabletop.

D

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:
I really hope we get our god damn psychic powers back.

Why? None of the BA powers are special anymore. Some are straight out copied by BRB powers, others are really similar.
Blood Boil- (Sanctic) Purge Soul or (Pyromancy) Spontaneus Combustion
Fear of the Darkness- (Telepathy) Terrify
Might of Heroes- (Biomancy) Warp Speed
Shackle Soul- (Telepathy) Dominate
Shield of Sanguinus- (Telekinesis) Telekine Dome
Smite- (Biomancy) Smite
Blood Lance- (Pyromancy) Molten Beam
Sanguine Sword- (Biomancy) Iron Arm
Unleash Rage- (Divination) Prescience
Wings of Sanguinus- (Telekinesis) Levitation

Because what made BA Libbys really fun to use were specific combinations of these like Fear of the Dark and Wings on a dreadnought, for example that the main book prohibits access to by stringing them out over two or even 3 disciplines. And how would they give mephy his oomph back? Give him loremaster over 3 domains?I'm surw non-BA players would be totally cool with that...Even of the desogners did allow you to mix and match disciplines, there would be an utterly abysmal chance of getting the ones you are after.At least with them all being on a BA chart its possible and your odds significantly improve.

If for no other reason, the space puppies got theirs back not even a month after they lost em.

Army wide rule of sparkles, where in close close combat they cause blind tests


But probably Mehfistin will probably be a LOW
Points normalization with C:SM
Drop pods in FA
Some new vehicle (my money being on a rhino variant)

They bloody better do something about sanguinary guard and jp HG! I have 20 SG and 10 JP HG who rarely get a game!
Points drop SG to 32/33pts each and HG get a 2+. Yes they will be very similar then, but neither incarnation works even slightly well atm.

Poly Ranger wrote:
They bloody better do something about sanguinary guard and jp HG! I have 20 SG and 10 JP HG who rarely get a game!
Points drop SG to 32/33pts each and HG get a 2+. Yes they will be very similar then, but neither incarnation works even slightly well atm.

I also have 20 Sanguinary Guards. :(

I'm hoping for one of two things:

1) Significant point drop. 150 points for the unit (30ppm).

2) The ability to actually do something. Current points, an invul save, WS5, and an extra attack. Hell, throw in FnP base. And that's just being conservative. Even with all that I'm not even sure they'd be worth it.

Only thing I can think of for BA would be bigger Nipples.

I hate to see what GW is thinking for BA after all these years. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Davor wrote:Only thing I can think of for BA would be bigger Nipples.

I hate to see what GW is thinking for BA after all these years. Be afraid, be very afraid.

One thing I can be certain of for the BA codex....I will be disappointed, especially after the, erm, mediocrity, that the last few codexes have embodied.

Thud wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
They bloody better do something about sanguinary guard and jp HG! I have 20 SG and 10 JP HG who rarely get a game!
Points drop SG to 32/33pts each and HG get a 2+. Yes they will be very similar then, but neither incarnation works even slightly well atm.

I also have 20 Sanguinary Guards. :(

I'm hoping for one of two things:

1) Significant point drop. 150 points for the unit (30ppm).

2) The ability to actually do something. Current points, an invul save, WS5, and an extra attack. Hell, throw in FnP base. And that's just being conservative. Even with all that I'm not even sure they'd be worth it.

At their current stat line, they would be BARELY worth 30 points, 28 is more like it IMO.

If we look at Grey Knights we see that Terminators are worth 33 points.
So with the loss of a 5++, but with JP's, I expect them to be 30 points.

One other thing I would like to see fixed are our IC's and Transports.. I want Lemartes and friends to be able to embark on a Land Raider or Drop Pod.

Yeah jp or no jp options for some special characters would be good, I wouldn't invest too much hope in to that that.

I can see the squad size for Sang Guard increasing, that would probably help. A serious re-work of the death masks is due, may granting re-rolls to hit/wound seems to fit the bill. Glaive encarmines could maybe provide a strength bonus for being two-handed on top of any strength bonus from the weapon.

The inferno pistols are too short range in my opinion, they either need a profile rejig or greater range.


D