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Captyn_Bob wrote:
The hawks move 18.. should be able to position the drakes so they can't get hit by the flyby attacks.

The Heldrake can simply switch targets and flamer the Swooping Hawks just as easily as bikes. I seriously doubt we will see flyers return to the competitive meta enough to warrant Eldar players taking Hawks. They are much better off taking Dark Reapers, and Crimson Hunters for AA. Even Hemlocks will be a more valid choice due to all the FMC spam in Tyranids and Daemon lists (and being able to bring more D to ground targets).

I think it is pretty safe to say that Serpentspam will be replaced with Jetbikespam and at least 1 Wraithknight (or more if the TO allows it) as the core of every competitive list. From there, it remains to be seen what else will be added,but so far Dark Eldar allies for delivering Wraithguard seem very strong as well.

I'm more worried about the WK than the bikes. Flesh Hounds and Screamers can catch Jetbikes and tarpit/win CC, but these units won't do much vs. the WK except stall it for 1 turn. If taking hounds then the obligatory Khorne Herald on Juggernaut with Axe of Khorne "might" be able to get some work done, but I wouldn't count on it barring dice spikes.

Belakor might be able to do it too, but you can bet the Eldar player will be saving all his dice against your invisibility roll every turn. So, only somewhat viable unless you can get multiples of invisibility through Heralds and Fateweaver.

 D6Damager wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The hawks move 18.. should be able to position the drakes so they can't get hit by the flyby attacks.

The Heldrake can simply switch targets and flamer the Swooping Hawks just as easily as bikes. I seriously doubt we will see flyers return to the competitive meta enough to warrant Eldar players taking Hawks. They are much better off taking Dark Reapers, and Crimson Hunters for AA. Even Hemlocks will be a more valid choice due to all the FMC spam in Tyranids and Daemon lists (and being able to bring more D to ground targets).

I think it is pretty safe to say that Serpentspam will be replaced with Jetbikespam and at least 1 Wraithknight (or more if the TO allows it) as the core of every competitive list. From there, it remains to be seen what else will be added,but so far Dark Eldar allies for delivering Wraithguard seem very strong as well.

I'm more worried about the WK than the bikes. Flesh Hounds and Screamers can catch Jetbikes and tarpit/win CC, but these units won't do much vs. the WK except stall it for 1 turn. If taking hounds then the obligatory Khorne Herald on Juggernaut with Axe of Khorne "might" be able to get some work done, but I wouldn't count on it barring dice spikes.

Belakor might be able to do it too, but you can bet the Eldar player will be saving all his dice against your invisibility roll every turn. So, only somewhat viable unless you can get multiples of invisibility through Heralds and Fateweaver.

Yea adding Swooping hawk is more like tailoring against somebody in a friendly casual game, they are not tournament quality, more easily killed than jet bikes and they can cost much over 100pts after upgrading them.

I think Bela needs grimoire or cursed earth more than invisibility during combat since stomp ignores invisible units, invisibility only if he needs help getting there. Since I doubt we need to worry about WK taking the D-sword over the D-cannon, so they'll be swinging with regular WS4 S10 attacks, hits Belakor on 5s and wounds on 2s, so thats .55 wounds then the 3 stomp attacks if he don't roll a 6 then its S6 Ap4 inducing another 2 wounds for a total of 2.55 wounds after saves a WK will only deal 1.5 wounds or less on Belakor depending on his invuln. T2 in combat Belakor should be able to kill off the WK before he even swings. Basically in the end its praying to the Tzeentch gods that he don't roll a 6 on the stomp table....

On the other hand, 350 pt of scatbikes will put ~23 wounds on Be'Lakor without invisibility. That's ~4 wounds after 2+ saves.
And he'd be one-shotted with D-scythes which can't hit him when he's invisible.

Can anyone who has the codex tell me how bad the new WK are?

See the stats here
http://greenblowfly.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-max=2015-04-21T21:10:00-04:00&max-results=4


It's like before , but resistant to poison and instant death gets feel no pain, can stomp, fire at different targets and has strength D weapons, either ranged or combat.
Plus side it's a LOW , downside is the formations are set up so it's easy to take as many as you want.

 koooaei wrote:
On the other hand, 350 pt of scatbikes will put ~23 wounds on Be'Lakor without invisibility. That's ~4 wounds after 2+ saves.
And he'd be one-shotted with D-scythes which can't hit him when he's invisible.

If you read my post, it says Belakor don't need invisibility against WK during "combat", he may need it to get into combat if he's in glide mode ready to charge next turn. Thats why by T2, our screamers and flesh hounds needs to reach those pesky jet bikes and Belakor/Fateweaver hopefully should have terror, psychic shriek and etc a bunch of bikes. Every dead bike is 4 less S6 shots and every 4-5 bike unit tied up in combat is 16-20 less shots.

Read rules and they're not nearly as bad as I though. Yeah 2 D strength guns on a 6 wound T8 guy is hard to kill, but now that it only has 3+ and needs to sacrifice the D guns for an jnvuln it's not nearly a problem.

 The Internet is for Khorn wrote:
Read rules and they're not nearly as bad as I though. Yeah 2 D strength guns on a 6 wound T8 guy is hard to kill, but now that it only has 3+ and needs to sacrifice the D guns for an jnvuln it's not nearly a problem.

Yep, the only problem is that it costs less than a Morkanaught And you can have multiples without much restrictions.

That's more of a problem that Morkanaughts suck for their cost.

Don't forget the 5+ fnp and easy access to cover , and shrouding /invisibility plus I think someone said there's still a wound regeneration power?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Don't forget the 5+ fnp and easy access to cover , and shrouding /invisibility plus I think someone said there's still a wound regeneration power?

Correct on all counts.
Since mine will be allies to my DE, I'll be running mine with the Wraith Glaive. I want the 5++, and I'd rather have 5 Strength D melee attacks than the sun cannon.
T8 3+/5++ FnP and immune to poison is possibly the best anchor I could get to reserve most/all of the rest.
Watchout for the wraith formation, they pick up battle focus (run and shoot, or shoot then run) and re-roll 1's to hit if near the spirit seer.

IF combined with the Craftworld formation (expensive but possible) then on top of the rest of the crap, everything always runs 6".

-Matt

How have your games gone facing a seer council with roughly 16 warp dice? I found it impossible to get any powers off testing be'lakor and impossible to deny their powers as well. Guide, banishment, fortune, the nova power all wreck face and go off so easily with a 3+ reroll when casting powers. Perils isn't a fear as they can simply ignore it most of the time by removing a dice from their already massive pool.

I actually had pretty good luck on my first test against the new codex - brought a gakload of daemonnettes and seekers, and used my princes mostly to clear out the scatbikes while the ladies chased down anything with D weaponry. We'll see how well it holds up after a few more games, but so far it went waaaay better than I expected.

Edit: 1750 points, eldar fielded a windrider host and a wraith contructs host, I fielded pure slaanesh. And holy crap are the new eldar fast. Getting completely outpaced as a Slaanesh player was a definite first for me.

 adamsouza wrote:
That's more of a problem that Morkanaughts suck for their cost.

Kind of but that doesnt change the fact that the wraithknight is now THE single most undercosted unit in all of 40k


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean consider that the cheapest GC that daemons have access to is 666 points and would get straight wrecked be either of the D toting wraithknight variants. . . and youre not even allowed to field it in games under 2664 points.

skycapt44 wrote:
How have your games gone facing a seer council with roughly 16 warp dice? I found it impossible to get any powers off testing be'lakor and impossible to deny their powers as well. Guide, banishment, fortune, the nova power all wreck face and go off so easily with a 3+ reroll when casting powers. Perils isn't a fear as they can simply ignore it most of the time by removing a dice from their already massive pool.

How was that seer council set up? What was in the rest of the list?

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
How have your games gone facing a seer council with roughly 16 warp dice? I found it impossible to get any powers off testing be'lakor and impossible to deny their powers as well. Guide, banishment, fortune, the nova power all wreck face and go off so easily with a 3+ reroll when casting powers. Perils isn't a fear as they can simply ignore it most of the time by removing a dice from their already massive pool.

How was that seer council set up? What was in the rest of the list?

I think it was something like 2 farseers and then 7 warlocks all on bikes. Something like 13 warpdice plus whatever he rolled. The hemlock added more dice when it came in. I don't recall everything but otherthings in the list included WK, 2 units of jetbikes, hemlock, some sniper type dudes (reapers??).