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 BrookM wrote:
Makes me wonder how well the DUST RPG is doing right about now.

Did they ever have the kickstarter for that? I don't really keep track of that one or the Infinity RPG . I heard about both long ago and not much since.

 Eilif wrote:

I hadn't heard this before. Is there confirmation that Battlefront has officially abandoned DUST? That would make it more clear why DUST studios is trying self-distribution.

I'm still unclear as to why the problems started, but maybe that's for the best.

Yes. Dust and Battlefront had an agreement on how they were going to pay for everything in the Kickstarter. Battlefront refused to pay Dust Studios for the minis they produced, and Dust refused to fulfill the Kickstarter at cost.

Yesterday (May 11 , 2015) DUST Studios pulled the plug and said that they have given up on Wave 2 fulfillment- it officially will not happen, and no one is trying to compromise anymore. They advised backers to report Battlefront to their credit card companies for fraud.


From the look of things, Battlefront started the kickstarter with a debt to Dust for some manufacturing they did in the past, and used Kickstarter money to pay them back. Then they did not have the funds leftover to pay for what they had agreed upon, and basically asked DUST to deliver the miniatures for free.

You figure that there are at least two sides in any disagreement, but Battlefront's own PR statements about it don't contradict Dust- they just kept saying that Dust should be more willing to compromise (ie- they should just take the hit).

 warboss wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Makes me wonder how well the DUST RPG is doing right about now.

Did they ever have the kickstarter for that? I don't really keep track of that one or the Infinity RPG . I heard about both long ago and not much since.

I don't know if it was a KS or not, but

http://www.modiphius.com/dust-adventures.html

 odinsgrandson wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

I hadn't heard this before. Is there confirmation that Battlefront has officially abandoned DUST? That would make it more clear why DUST studios is trying self-distribution.

I'm still unclear as to why the problems started, but maybe that's for the best.

Yes. Dust and Battlefront had an agreement on how they were going to pay for everything in the Kickstarter. Battlefront refused to pay Dust Studios for the minis they produced, and Dust refused to fulfill the Kickstarter at cost.

Yesterday (May 11 , 2015) DUST Studios pulled the plug and said that they have given up on Wave 2 fulfillment- it officially will not happen, and no one is trying to compromise anymore. They advised backers to report Battlefront to their credit card companies for fraud.


From the look of things, Battlefront started the kickstarter with a debt to Dust for some manufacturing they did in the past, and used Kickstarter money to pay them back. Then they did not have the funds leftover to pay for what they had agreed upon, and basically asked DUST to deliver the miniatures for free.

You figure that there are at least two sides in any disagreement, but Battlefront's own PR statements about it don't contradict Dust- they just kept saying that Dust should be more willing to compromise (ie- they should just take the hit).

Good to know. It will be interesting to see what battlefront says when they make their promised statement. It doesn't look good for them, but at the same time, they've definitely been the more professional in not slinging much mud while negotiations were pending.

damn shame, I really love the game, but haven't really been able to play it since they changed the dice. and i have been trying to get ahold of the new dice for over a year now. I had ordered it a while ago from battlefront directly, and never received it. I emailed them and they sent me a scathing email back saying that they have told everyone it is not available, and they tell people this every week and I should know better then to order it. Well, I wasnt following the kickstarter bs, I just need some new dice from them, and there site said it was in stock.

Needless to say I was pissed, and called and spoke to one of the managers in charge of customer relations and store orders. After a 20 minute discussion on how to treat your customers, I'll never ever buy anything from battlefront again. Now, if i could only get those dice I would be happy lol.

 warboss wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Makes me wonder how well the DUST RPG is doing right about now.

Did they ever have the kickstarter for that? I don't really keep track of that one or the Infinity RPG . I heard about both long ago and not much since.

It wasn't a KS, but rather just a pre-order campaign.

 Eilif wrote:

Good to know. It will be interesting to see what battlefront says when they make their promised statement. It doesn't look good for them, but at the same time, they've definitely been the more professional in not slinging much mud while negotiations were pending.

Well, I hope they don't continue to take the moral high ground by not giving their side to the story. I honestly found their PR a little less professional than his because they refused to give any details or answer any of his public claims. Not that anyone leaves this debacle looking good.

Did Kickstarter used to have terms about only spending the money on stuff related to the project? I looked a few months back and didn't see anything specific on that in their terms when all this stuff started to come out. I know that when the company finally admits to the project failing, they're supposed to list what exactly they spent the money on but that isn't the same thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Makes me wonder how well the DUST RPG is doing right about now.

Did they ever have the kickstarter for that? I don't really keep track of that one or the Infinity RPG . I heard about both long ago and not much since.

It wasn't a KS, but rather just a pre-order campaign.

Ah, ok thanks. Also thanks to Fenrir for the earlier link.

Yeah, the Infinity RPG is coming out, this summer I believe. I just signed up as a play tester. crossing fingers.

odinsgrandson wrote:

Yes. Dust and Battlefront had an agreement on how they were going to pay for everything in the Kickstarter. Battlefront refused to pay Dust Studios for the minis they produced, and Dust refused to fulfill the Kickstarter at cost.

Yesterday (May 11 , 2015) DUST Studios pulled the plug and said that they have given up on Wave 2 fulfillment- it officially will not happen, and no one is trying to compromise anymore. They advised backers to report Battlefront to their credit card companies for fraud.


From the look of things, Battlefront started the kickstarter with a debt to Dust for some manufacturing they did in the past, and used Kickstarter money to pay them back. Then they did not have the funds leftover to pay for what they had agreed upon, and basically asked DUST to deliver the miniatures for free.

You figure that there are at least two sides in any disagreement, but Battlefront's own PR statements about it don't contradict Dust- they just kept saying that Dust should be more willing to compromise (ie- they should just take the hit).

That's a bit of an oversimplification. The debt was from typical manufacturing financing for the first few waves that DS and BF collaborated on. The waves did not sell well enough or fast enough to pay back the bank when the loan was due. Paying off the debt was the primary justification for the KS. It was covered as such in their contract. Otherwise neither company had the capital to invest in producing another product release wave.

The KS payed for the debt and most of the KS rewards. I did some napkin estimates based on public comments from both parties and I'm pretty sure that all the money has been spent except for a reserve to cover shipping. So it's not a question of one side withholding collected money. t's about who eats the cost of the funding shortfall. There is contention on stretch goals that where not covered in the initial contract that BF is claiming there were verbal agreements to. Agreements made by Paolo that DS says never happened or don't count because Paolo was not authorized to make them.

The original contract puts all responsibility for meeting delivery on DS. DS claims that contract is void now because BF paid the bank loans out of order.

The last few months have been about trying to figure out how to split the remaining costs of the kickstarter rewards. I believe both sides have stated publicly that they are willing to split the costs, the breakdown seems to be on how much.

odinsgrandson wrote:[

Well, I hope they don't continue to take the moral high ground by not giving their side to the story. I honestly found their PR a little less professional than his because they refused to give any details or answer any of his public claims. Not that anyone leaves this debacle looking good.

In the past, BF has directly responded to Paolo's claims. They just take a few days to formulate a response. I'm pretty sure this is because Paolo says whatever he wants whenever he wants, and Battlefront runs all their communications past their lawyers first.

 odinsgrandson wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

I hadn't heard this before. Is there confirmation that Battlefront has officially abandoned DUST? That would make it more clear why DUST studios is trying self-distribution.

I'm still unclear as to why the problems started, but maybe that's for the best.

Yes. Dust and Battlefront had an agreement on how they were going to pay for everything in the Kickstarter. Battlefront refused to pay Dust Studios for the minis they produced, and Dust refused to fulfill the Kickstarter at cost.

Yesterday (May 11 , 2015) DUST Studios pulled the plug and said that they have given up on Wave 2 fulfillment- it officially will not happen, and no one is trying to compromise anymore. They advised backers to report Battlefront to their credit card companies for fraud.


From the look of things, Battlefront started the kickstarter with a debt to Dust for some manufacturing they did in the past, and used Kickstarter money to pay them back. Then they did not have the funds leftover to pay for what they had agreed upon, and basically asked DUST to deliver the miniatures for free.

You figure that there are at least two sides in any disagreement, but Battlefront's own PR statements about it don't contradict Dust- they just kept saying that Dust should be more willing to compromise (ie- they should just take the hit).

Sort of...only if you listen to Paolo....

They did indeed have an agreement/contract. And then Paolo's partner who manufactures Dust decided BF should pay for some of the free addons, which the agreement spelled out Dust would pay for. They are stalled now because BF doesn't feel like being extorted for things they didn't agree to.

Do you wonder why Paolo is whining so hard in public? It's because he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

XvReaperXv wrote:
damn shame, I really love the game, but haven't really been able to play it since they changed the dice. and i have been trying to get ahold of the new dice for over a year now. I had ordered it a while ago from battlefront directly, and never received it. I emailed them and they sent me a scathing email back saying that they have told everyone it is not available, and they tell people this every week and I should know better then to order it. Well, I wasnt following the kickstarter bs, I just need some new dice from them, and there site said it was in stock.

Needless to say I was pissed, and called and spoke to one of the managers in charge of customer relations and store orders. After a 20 minute discussion on how to treat your customers, I'll never ever buy anything from battlefront again. Now, if i could only get those dice I would be happy lol.

You can play without the official dice. Each die has two shields, faction symbols, and crosshairs. Simply determine which number is which symbol.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

XvReaperXv wrote:
damn shame, I really love the game, but haven't really been able to play it since they changed the dice. and i have been trying to get ahold of the new dice for over a year now. I had ordered it a while ago from battlefront directly, and never received it. I emailed them and they sent me a scathing email back saying that they have told everyone it is not available, and they tell people this every week and I should know better then to order it. Well, I wasnt following the kickstarter bs, I just need some new dice from them, and there site said it was in stock.

Needless to say I was pissed, and called and spoke to one of the managers in charge of customer relations and store orders. After a 20 minute discussion on how to treat your customers, I'll never ever buy anything from battlefront again. Now, if i could only get those dice I would be happy lol.

You can play without the official dice. Each die has two shields, faction symbols, and crosshairs. Simply determine which number is which symbol.

Are they six siders? If so, mod cube!

Yep, six siders.

 mikhaila wrote:
Do you wonder why Paolo is whining so hard in public? It's because he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

This, so much this.

Hehe, as much as I love ritides work, I wouldn't use mod cube for that. Why not just get a d3?

what are the odds that you are looking for?

Can you just count 5+ or is it something more complex than that?

When I got into Tactics you got these dice with four blank sides and two sides marked with a crosshair, meaning a simple 5+ roll would suffice on regular dice.

I'm not sure however how the new dice with a symbol on each facing work nowadays.

I'm assuming that the newer dice are filling space, because they can.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm assuming that the newer dice are filling space, because they can.

The symbols all mean something in the latest edition, if I recall right. Not really sure just what, because I didn't play Tactics. In Warfare, Blanks/Hits sufficed.

You know, when two people with an understanding and history of the game can't even figure out what a six sided die means in various versions, the company and system has problems.

Out of curiosity, what system were the KS models to be used in? If they are released, and assuming that the bad blood means Dust:Battlefield is dead, will they even be usable in Dust: Whatever that might survive?

Shotgun wrote:
You know, when two people with an understanding and history of the game can't even figure out what a six sided die means in various versions, the company and system has problems.

Out of curiosity, what system were the KS models to be used in? If they are released, and assuming that the bad blood means Dust:Battlefield is dead, will they even be usable in Dust: Whatever that might survive?

They had a revamp of Operation: Babylon.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/duststudio/dust-operation-babylon/comments

If you honestly want the game, best thing to do is to snatch up the discounts and snacks available from everyone and Uncle Ernie who is trying to drop them all like a bad habit. The dice are available from FRP, but are temporarily out of stock. they will have them soon though.


http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?skip=0&m=product_list&c=2853

Worst thing about DUST is the ego train, that in the end is what killed the game. Both sides are just awful about it, and should be publicly crushed for gakking the fans. Love the moral high ground, though, the scumbags.

Anything with Paolo Parente, or Battlefront should be treated as a proverbial Leper colony from here on out. They did everything they could to crap on the fans, and neither one even cares that they stole your money.

 odinsgrandson wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

Good to know. It will be interesting to see what battlefront says when they make their promised statement. It doesn't look good for them, but at the same time, they've definitely been the more professional in not slinging much mud while negotiations were pending.

Well, I hope they don't continue to take the moral high ground by not giving their side to the story. I honestly found their PR a little less professional than his because they refused to give any details or answer any of his public claims. Not that anyone leaves this debacle looking good.

It's not the moral high ground, it's simple professionalism that you don't air your dirty laundry until after negotiations are completed. BF didn't have any solid news for the public and they said so and then kept their mouth shut. That is of course frustrating for the gamer public, but it's the professional thing to do.

Paolo griped to the heavens and tried to control the narrative and get the public on his side, but that doesn't mean he is right.

I do agree that If negotiations and legal dealings are truely over then it's time for BF to make a statement and let the customers know what's up, but it's not even entirely clear that it's that time yet.

 mikhaila wrote:

Sort of...only if you listen to Paolo....

They did indeed have an agreement/contract. And then Paolo's partner who manufactures Dust decided BF should pay for some of the free addons, which the agreement spelled out Dust would pay for. They are stalled now because BF doesn't feel like being extorted for things they didn't agree to.

Do you wonder why Paolo is whining so hard in public? It's because he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

My thoughts as well. I don't think the verdict is in yet either way, but as the bard said('ish)"he doth protest too much".

When I read Paolo's posts, I can't help but be reminded of Tony Reidy's rants when Wargames Factory was being taken away from him by Wai Kee Hui. Lots of folks (almost everyone, including me) poured on the sympathy for Tony and WKH stayed mostly quiet until everything was completed. When everything finally came to light WKH was shown to the responsible party and Wargames Factory has moved from strength to strength. What happened to Tony's "Defiance Games?….

Not saying that Paolo is Tony or is necessarily at fault, but my skepticism alarm blares when only one side is ranting.

 mikhaila wrote:
Do you wonder why Paolo is whining so hard in public? It's because he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

It is entirely possible (and extremely likely) that Paolo has the moral and legal right here, but what he lacks is the financial resources to take BF to court, secure a judgement, grind through the appeals, and compel BF to make good on the contract.

Being right is meaningless unless you have the financial backing and legal resources to mount an effective legal campaign to enforce your rights.

GW Legal knew this, which is why they sent so many C&D letters with threat of legal action, knowing that the overwhelming majority of targets would immediately fold, rather than assert rights that GW would beat by default judgement once they drove the other company into bankruptcy.

As I see it, BF is pulling a GW Legal on Paolo, knowing that their stronger financial position makes all of Paolo's legal and moral rectitude moot.

Biggest difference for me is that DS has been consistently producing Dust miniatures for years. BFs involvement seemed to start with cheaping out on buying FFGs stock, raising prices for less content and...this thing.

All the info from DS comes fom Paulo, all the support for BF seems to come from people with vested interests in their other products. I'm not really buying anyone's narrative right now.

None of you are trying to talk me out of sino soviets! I hate Dakka forever.

 malfred wrote:
None of you are trying to talk me out of sino soviets! I hate Dakka forever.

The helicopter looks chibi. Also, trying to convince someone else to start getting into the game will likely come across as sincere as Monty Python's Black Knight.

There's a game?

I just want the models, really.

 malfred wrote:
There's a game?

I just want the models, really.

There is, but it's terrible. Simply terrible. Simple. And terrible. Make something up that uses the models.

I hereby give you permission to buy the models. All of them. And good on you for waiting until the game died, so you could pick them up at clearance prices. That's smart.

 malfred wrote:
There's a game?

I just want the models, really.

Try amazon still good deals there