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dragonelf wrote:
I was suggesting circle at one stage along skorne and someone on the privateer press forums said that playing those armies as a new player was like starting a new game on hard (skorne) or insane (circle).

I like the challenge of using a new game but I am not sure I want to start it on hard or insane!

Which factions are starting the game on 'normal!'

It's all Starcraft against a Korean mate. I jumped into hordes/circle with kromac and came second in my first tourney with them.

There is no normal. Face a veteran, and you will get stomped. Plsyer skill beats faction choice.

Sure, but for novices, some armies have a steeper learning curve than others no?

The models that I like seem to be in the factions that are tough to learn.... ie Circle and Skorne.

Only faction I'd tell a newbie to avoid would be Convergence as they have a lot of weird mechanics that are tough to get moving. Aide that, pick what you want.

Great! Pigs it is!

I'll echo that the steepest curve and least new player friendly is Convergence due to its utter reliance on weird positioning, complex rules interactions and generally treating the game a bit different.

Next is Minions due to generally just being limitted and again, acting a tadd odd with how Pacts work. THough the somewhat repettive and simplisitc nature of the Faction and Pacts means that you actually can pick up a lot of the game in general almost as if you are in training mode.

Cephalyx are kind of a weirdo Minion Pact mixed with Convergenc ein that it kind of just wanders off, does its own thing and doesn't quite do the rules of the game the same or simply.

Mercenaries in general can be good and satisfying but I would argue the big issue is it's expensive as hell since you need colossals for non-Cephalyx much of the time, you have a lot of expensive character models and different warcasters will want often almost entirely different things.

Circle is after that the steepest learning curve of the "main" Factions, just due to the army's playstyle more than inherent oddities to how it works in relation to the game's overall strucutre.

From there out I think it kind of plateaus on complicatedness to be honest. They aren't easy, but I think that there's a lot less inherent weirdness that i note with the first three Factions and a bit less steep a curve compared to Circle that you get to pick and choose just fine. And even that said, as i note, there are caveats like how the smaller size of armies like pigs or the squishbosses helps a lot in just getting use to the "Know your models inside and out" mindset that is good to have in this game.

And stuff.

I'd say what you were told is false.

Most factions are easy enough to learn the game with.

Skorne is definitely not "hard" I started with skorne. Skorne is pretty straight forward. Where the "hard" may come from is we have some pretty serious skornergy, which is the opposite of synergy. For instance:

Ancestral Guardians want souls, Living models generate souls. Immortals want to be with ancestral guardians, immortals are non-living & don't cough up souls.

So unit A gets has a skill that explicitly does not work with unit B. but unit B gets a buff from unit A.

I also wouldn't say circle is "insane". Circle relies on some movement tricks to get things done. That and they are usually high Df, low Arm so when they get hit, it hurts.

As for starting factions the ones I'd avoid are Minions, Mercs and Convergence. The issue is they are very limited in what they can take.

Convergence is new & minions & mercs you have to take a contract. So for Pigs you're limited to 5 casters, 4 beasts, 4 units & some solos. Where as a full faction like circle has 13 casters, 22 warbeasts, 13 units and many solos.

That is not to say you CAN'T start pigs, but often times people start with say circle or skorne (who can both hire in pigs) then when you have some stuff already, you get a caster & some beasts & make a full pig list.

I started WM with Convergence and didn't know anything was that different until I started also playing Mercs and Khador.
You can start with whatever faction you want.

It's not about what they do, just that their number of choices is very limited compared to more established factions, but I'm not saying you can't, just saying if it's a toss up, pick someone else.

It can also just depend on the player and what works for them and their style. I started with Cygnar and did OK, but I had trouble making a few things really work. I won a Cryx starter and the game just "clicked" when I played it. Cryx just makes sense to me. I've gotten better with Cygnar, but I am just better with Cryx even though I play both factions regularly.

I have a few different armies and 2014 was supposed to be the year of Circle for me. but again, I just couldn't quite get things to click like they do with my Cryx. And I started playing right as Mark II came out.

So sometimes it is not the faction as much as the player. I had the same issue in 40K where the only faction that really clicked was Eldar. It fit into exactly how I wanted to play the game.

The really nice thing about WMH is that it is pretty cheap and easy to try out another faction. And having more than one faction is nice to get others into the game. Last but not least, playing other factions gives you some insight into how they work and makes you better at the game overall. For example, I suggest that people play a WM faction and a Hordes faction just to learn the difference between Focus and Fury.

Deadnight wrote:

Legion of Everblight: [..] definately a hit and run/glass cannon faction that focuses purely on assassination and "killing the other guy" as opposed to grabbing objectives and playing the attrition game.

I have to disagree a bit with you here. Legion is overall a faction comprised of glass cannons and fast models which allows you to get the alpha strike most of the time, but assassination is definitely not the only way to play them. Legion have some great scenario options, for example Vayl2 with all her movement spells and the Angelius animus can clear and contest zones very well. Lylyth2 is another warlock that can do scenario play really well simply by the fact that her army can kill so much stuff that you will have no problem clearing zones. Saeryn1 also have several good options for zone control and denial with her feat, her Blightbringer and Breath stealer spells and the Angelius' animus.
Legion also have access to one of the most famous attrition pieces in the game; the Spawning vessel. Being able to recycle both enemy and friendly casualties into new models means you will be able to replenish your army as the game goes on, which is something most other factions cannot do. Legion can also do "attrition" by getting off such devastating alpha strikes that the enemy never comes back from it.
Legion are good at assassination, but they're also good at scenario play and to a lesser extent attrition. I think a better summary would be that they're great at getting off destructive alpha strikes.

which are the good assassination factions out of curiousity?

I am leaning more towards Hordes simply because I am looking a 'fantasy' rather than scifi game but will consider warmachine too.

Warmachine is hardly sci-fi. Its self-described as "Full-metal Fantasy".

Anyway, every faction has lists that can cater to assassinations. I would say Skorne, Legion, and Circle are the best at it of the Hordes factions, with specific builds.

Lilyth2(legion) focuses heavily on a ranged asssassination with her feat. Makaeda(1 or 2) and Molik Karn have a nasty assassination threat from miles away. And any circle list can pull an off the wall assassination with their shifting stones.

They all assassinate differently, and sometimes their assassinations aren't an option. thats why you always want scenario game.

What do you mean by always wanting a scenario game? I thought killing the enemy caster always meant victory...

dragonelf wrote:
What do you mean by always wanting a scenario game? I thought killing the enemy caster always meant victory...

Steamroller. Google the steamroller 2015 pack for information.

Scenario play, in other words. Around which the game is balanced.

Assassination is one of two possible victory conditions. The other is to win via accumulation of scenario points by controlling objectives. The tl,dr is that you 'score' for every turn you control an objective, and with multiple objectives in some scenarios etc., it's possible to run away and win a game without ever needing to eyeball your opponents caster.

Some casters/lists are brilliant at assassination. Others, for example control/denial heavy lists that stop their opponents doing stuff in the first place tend to excel at scenario games. Then you have attrition lists that run into the control zones and refuse to budge. Assassination isn't always going to be an option, you have to play for the scenario.

ah i see, got it. Thanks. But am I right in saying that you could be racing ahead on scenario points and if your opponent kills your caster then you lose the game.

dragonelf wrote:
ah i see, got it. Thanks. But am I right in saying that you could be racing ahead on scenario points and if your opponent kills your caster then you lose the game.

Correct.

However, experienced players know this. Learning to protect your caster/lock is something most people learn pretty darn early. If you neglect the scenario and let them race ahead then you are probably in trouble.

So assassination is a viable strategy (one of my favorites to be sure), but don't neglect/ignore the scenario and other strategies like attrition.

Technically you don't lose your control points.

What happens is that if your warnoun is killed then the game ends and your opponent wins that game. However, you still tally up control points and army kill points in case they are needed for tie breakers.