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 Psienesis wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"A Star Wars capital ship's main guns are sufficient for annihilating everything on a planet."

I don't believe this at all. The vessel's hypen lasers look quite weak actually.

Trek can do this because they are slinging anti-matter weapons, but the writers always forget this.

The planet of Taris would like a word... or, rather, it would, if its entire population hadn't been killed via orbital bombardment from Darth Malak's battle-cruiser.

Which is an older class of battle cruiser from 4000 years prior to the movies. The Sith Interdictors look like minnows compared to Star Destroyers. Easily able to wipe the floor with 40k ships.

At the height of The Old Republic and with the Emperor from the MMO I think he and his Eternal Empire could take on 40k, Halo (not the super factions from the that settings past), and Star Trek at all at the same time. Millions of jedi and sith running around.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"A Star Wars capital ship's main guns are sufficient for annihilating everything on a planet."

I don't believe this at all. The vessel's hypen lasers look quite weak actually.

Trek can do this because they are slinging anti-matter weapons, but the writers always forget this.

The planet of Taris would like a word... or, rather, it would, if its entire population hadn't been killed via orbital bombardment from Darth Malak's battle-cruiser.

It was not just Malak's ship, it was a huge fleet of Sith Warships. Saul karaith even told Malak that it would take several hours to position the fleet to bomb the planet.

At the height of The Old Republic and with the Emperor from the MMO I think he and his Eternal Empire could take on 40k, Halo (not the super factions from the that settings past), and Star Trek at all at the same time. Millions of jedi and sith running around.

The eternal empire's fleet was good because it was so huge . All it ever did was attack as a clustered blob. The nova-cannon would wipe floor with them because they cant dodge, and there's to many ships to miss.

Except that "clustered" blob could only really be hurt by the macguffin ship.

I think his point about their ship is that yes it is capable of destroying stuff on the ground effectively. Also if you watch the cinematic it takes hours to position the fleet and then mere minutes to destroy it completely. So yes if his ship had days it could destroy the planet on its own.

It's a matter of saving time by having the whole fleet do it at once. He knew with every second you might escape so why give you that by using only one ship? The point is if those old crappy ships from 4000k years ago can easily do it in a few minutes maybe an hour at tops then the newer the Star Wars ships get the more overkill it gets. 40k is finished. The Star Wars ships are just too fast to engage and they hit like a brick. In the early part of the war the 40k universe would be at an advantage because SW one needs to map the galaxy but it's not going to take long.

 Gamgee wrote:
Except that "clustered" blob could only really be hurt by the macguffin ship.

I think his point about their ship is that yes it is capable of destroying stuff on the ground effectively. Also if you watch the cinematic it takes hours to position the fleet and then mere minutes to destroy it completely. So yes if his ship had days it could destroy the planet on its own.

It's a matter of saving time by having the whole fleet do it at once. He knew with every second you might escape so why give you that by using only one ship? The point is if those old crappy ships from 4000k years ago can easily do it in a few minutes maybe an hour at tops then the newer the Star Wars ships get the more overkill it gets. 40k is finished. The Star Wars ships are just too fast to engage and they hit like a brick. In the early part of the war the 40k universe would be at an advantage because SW one needs to map the galaxy but it's not going to take long.

The weapon damage almost never changes throughout Starwars, as in Turbolasers in the old republic did them same damage as the one in the clone wars. The only difference would probably be the efficiency of power drained on the ships capacitor. Sure missiles may have been upgraded but the laser and ion weapons haven't changed.

This seems like a rather generous assumption given fluff descriptions of 40k fleets taking hours or even days to prepare for battle. Which is fine because, in 40k, everyone spends lots of time floating around in normal space before getting into firing range. They simply don't have the ability to precisely jump to a destination and immediately start shooting.

A 40k ship drops out of the Warp a hell of a long way from the target world - so it's not an issue.

As noted, it's essentially incompatible hand-wave physics - it's the same reason (In reverse) why, whilst the guard generally get murdered on the ground, the Imperial Navy has a tendancy to kick the Tau sideways in naval wars - FTL comms, FTL-capable destroyer-sized escort craft to do recon, faster strategic speed.

All of this is true in reverse to an even greater extent with Star Wars - even fighters can do (short) interstellar hops to act as your recon element, FTL communication is pretty much instantaneous, clear and reliable, and as noted an interstellar jump - even allowing for 'calculation time' seems to take a few minutes and brings you out in near-orbit rather than at the edge of the system.

locarno24 wrote:

This seems like a rather generous assumption given fluff descriptions of 40k fleets taking hours or even days to prepare for battle. Which is fine because, in 40k, everyone spends lots of time floating around in normal space before getting into firing range. They simply don't have the ability to precisely jump to a destination and immediately start shooting.

A 40k ship drops out of the Warp a hell of a long way from the target world - so it's not an issue.

As noted, it's essentially incompatible hand-wave physics - it's the same reason (In reverse) why, whilst the guard generally get murdered on the ground, the Imperial Navy has a tendancy to kick the Tau sideways in naval wars - FTL comms, FTL-capable destroyer-sized escort craft to do recon, faster strategic speed.

All of this is true in reverse to an even greater extent with Star Wars - even fighters can do (short) interstellar hops to act as your recon element, FTL communication is pretty much instantaneous, clear and reliable, and as noted an interstellar jump - even allowing for 'calculation time' seems to take a few minutes and brings you out in near-orbit rather than at the edge of the system.

The problem with SW FTL drive is that it needs very detailed and up-to-date star charts to function. Or else in the words of Han Solo: "we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" And as seen from the fact that the Star Wars civilisation has yet to explore half of its own system, the capabilities of Star Wars ships to fly to an uncharted destination are minimal to non-existant.

 _ghost_ wrote:
Its always funny if someone tries to make such arguments... its pointless...

Why?

These threads are not for people like you and me. Just leave others to argue it out, it's not like it matters anyway. Better to just not get involved.

 kinratha wrote:

The weapon damage almost never changes throughout Starwars, as in Turbolasers in the old republic did them same damage as the one in the clone wars. The only difference would probably be the efficiency of power drained on the ships capacitor. Sure missiles may have been upgraded but the laser and ion weapons haven't changed.

This. Starwars is a peak technology setting. They have reached the limits of what their science can achieve- and they did it very quickly as multiple species became space faring and traded tech. How that technology is applied is a different matter- TIE fighters are unshielded as a design decision to keep costs low, the death star super-laser uses existing technology on a larger scale.

Designs evolve according to needs, not innovation. The massive heavy battle rifles of the clone wars gave way to the compact E11s of the storm troopers because they weren't on battlefields blasting robots to bits all day long. The ARCs gave way to TIEs as the Clone army changed from a counter offensive army to galactic enforcers.

Included in this 'peak tech' setting is the idea that maybe the Empire could churn out anything from saucer based science vessels armed with beam weapons to gothic space cathdrals with torpedoes the size of skyscrapers- if it had the resources to build them. By funnelling resources into moon sized battlestations the Emperor was counting on ruling through the fear of a handful of superweapons rather than having Super Star destroyers enough to actually enforce control.

 Psienesis wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"A Star Wars capital ship's main guns are sufficient for annihilating everything on a planet."

I don't believe this at all. The vessel's hypen lasers look quite weak actually.

Trek can do this because they are slinging anti-matter weapons, but the writers always forget this.

The planet of Taris would like a word... or, rather, it would, if its entire population hadn't been killed via orbital bombardment from Darth Malak's battle-cruiser.

It's not very convincing since it's not in the films. Considering that the falcon takes several hits from a star destroyer in empire, im inclined to think their weapons are weak as gak.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

This seems like a rather generous assumption given fluff descriptions of 40k fleets taking hours or even days to prepare for battle. Which is fine because, in 40k, everyone spends lots of time floating around in normal space before getting into firing range. They simply don't have the ability to precisely jump to a destination and immediately start shooting.

A 40k ship drops out of the Warp a hell of a long way from the target world - so it's not an issue.

As noted, it's essentially incompatible hand-wave physics - it's the same reason (In reverse) why, whilst the guard generally get murdered on the ground, the Imperial Navy has a tendancy to kick the Tau sideways in naval wars - FTL comms, FTL-capable destroyer-sized escort craft to do recon, faster strategic speed.

All of this is true in reverse to an even greater extent with Star Wars - even fighters can do (short) interstellar hops to act as your recon element, FTL communication is pretty much instantaneous, clear and reliable, and as noted an interstellar jump - even allowing for 'calculation time' seems to take a few minutes and brings you out in near-orbit rather than at the edge of the system.

The problem with SW FTL drive is that it needs very detailed and up-to-date star charts to function. Or else in the words of Han Solo: "we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" And as seen from the fact that the Star Wars civilisation has yet to explore half of its own system, the capabilities of Star Wars ships to fly to an uncharted destination are minimal to non-existant.

Someone had to map those routes in the first place, which means they have some sort of method of recon and leaping into formerly uncharted space - perhaps probe droids? If the two universes were to come in contact, I imagine the SW ships could collect jump data fairly quickly to assault into IoM territory.

What your arguing is akin to saying that tanks have to fight on roads or autobauns, and can't go off-road. Granted, you wouldn't want to do the equivilant of driving into a swamp, but a competant military would have recon checking for thos sort of obstacles and ways around them.

 =Angel= wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

The weapon damage almost never changes throughout Starwars, as in Turbolasers in the old republic did them same damage as the one in the clone wars. The only difference would probably be the efficiency of power drained on the ships capacitor. Sure missiles may have been upgraded but the laser and ion weapons haven't changed.

This. Starwars is a peak technology setting. They have reached the limits of what their science can achieve- and they did it very quickly as multiple species became space faring and traded tech. How that technology is applied is a different matter- TIE fighters are unshielded as a design decision to keep costs low, the death star super-laser uses existing technology on a larger scale.

That is quite sad if you think about it.

A peak technology setting with no guided weapons, terrible computer targeting, no nukes, no cluster weapons, no viable assault robots, and useless body armor? Okay.

 Peregrine wrote:
Star Wars wins because of vastly superior FTL.

This, but the thread will go 10 pages anyways.

Unless you include the idea that the SW galaxy already has X number of planets that are tomb worlds, and the crons manage to get forces off planet before the Empire shows up in a few hours with a SSD.

This is a throwback to a few threads ago but: In a universe vs universe fight:

1. Keep in mind that the GALAXY is mostly filled with empty space. Travel time is mostly through empty space. Given that each side has no information about the other side's layout, whoever has the better recon is going to have an advantage. I believe that Star Wars, and their ability to automate (i.e. droid vehicles) have an overwhelming recon advantage. 40k, while having huge resources, transport / logistics is restricted to large craft mounting warp engines, where as small fighter and freighter class ships in Star Wars are able to achieve FTL.

2. In the Grim Darkness of the Forty-First Millenium: And They Shall Know No Diplomacy. I believe that this is a huge problem for 40k. Diplomacy is core within the fabric of Star Wars cultures and they will more readily band together if faced with Galactic scale invasion, where as in 40k, it is likely to be business as usual. (i.e. 'Ere we go', 'The Blood God Cares Not From Where the Blood Flows', 'Emperor Protects' and 'Nom')

Side Note 1:

Re: 40k's Planet Cracking Feats. As stated in a previous thread, 40k's power level varies heavily depending on the demands of the current author's plot. Functionality is described using increasingly vague terms. Using top end feats causes major issues in that, unless the damage levels (and defense levels) of the entire setting scale with the feat, you have the condition of where a certain weapon type would be one-shotting everything up to, and including entire fleets of in-universe ships (let alone Star Wars ones).

Example: Assuming that a standard gun battery on a cruiser fires a 10 ton projectile at 0.7C. This has a 1.0 TT yield. If this is a standard shot, that would mean that standard toughness of a ship has toughness able to soak in the 10's TT. This means that a tyranid ship that attacks by BITING needs to be tougher than the 10's TT damage capacity of the enemy ship and needs to have at least a 1.0 TT bite strength. As you can see... it gets out of control fast. IMHO, pegging normal 40k firepower at the mid 10's GT level harmonizes the majority of displayed feats with more reasonable levels based on demonstrated Tyranid, Ork and Space Hulk durability levels.

Side Note 2:

I feel there is the assumption that all parties in 40k would be party to this conflict on the same side. Considering existing lore: I believe there is a good chance the Tau would likely be receptive to Diplomatic overtures and side with Star Wars, as Star Wars is not Xenophobic (to the extent that IoM is). The Eldar would also jump at the opportunity to ally themselves with a force that isn't immediately going to exterminate them. (Whether or not they betray is completely dependent on how the war goes, and how they perceive the victors will treat them). There is also the chance that the IoM worlds furthest from the Segmentum Solar, if cut off may also secede from the Imperium. This changes the dynamic vastly, as it would give Star Wars access to 40k allies.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The problem with SW FTL drive is that it needs very detailed and up-to-date star charts to function. Or else in the words of Han Solo: "we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" And as seen from the fact that the Star Wars civilisation has yet to explore half of its own system, the capabilities of Star Wars ships to fly to an uncharted destination are minimal to non-existant.

Meanwhile in 40k FTL travel requires a "totally not dead, really guys" corpse sitting on a golden toilet screaming really loud so that ships don't get lost and devoured by the warp. Even a brief flicker in the dead guy beacon causes catastrophic losses of ships. So, while Star Wars at least has the option to map its new targets and figure out hyperspace routes, the Imperium isn't going anywhere no matter how much they want to.

The conclusion here is that you assume that both sides are able to extend their appropriate navigational stuff into the other side's universe, and their respective FTL functions like it does in its own setting.

Martel732 wrote:
Considering that the falcon takes several hits from a star destroyer in empire, im inclined to think their weapons are weak as gak.

Alternatively, the Falcon's shields are strong enough to survive even the massive firepower of a capital ship's turbolasers. To get useful information on firepower you have to consider effects on inert objects where shield/armor technology is not a factor: asteroids, surfaces of planets, etc. And in those cases Star Wars firepower is pretty impressive.

But the falcon seemed pretty scared of the Stormtrooper HMG-blaster in movie 5, and we've already seen that those blaster weapons are not all that impressive against soft targets.

 Ashiraya wrote:
But the falcon seemed pretty scared of the Stormtrooper HMG-blaster in movie 5, and we've already seen that those blaster weapons are not all that impressive against soft targets.

I think the most likely interpretation was that the shields were down at that point and a lucky hit might have damaged an exposed system. Shields up and ready for combat is a pretty different situation.

I find it impossible to swallow a sloop taking hits from a battleship.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
But the falcon seemed pretty scared of the Stormtrooper HMG-blaster in movie 5, and we've already seen that those blaster weapons are not all that impressive against soft targets.

I think the most likely interpretation was that the shields were down at that point and a lucky hit might have damaged an exposed system. Shields up and ready for combat is a pretty different situation.

And if shields were so much radically tougher than the hull, why are TIE going without shields? The cost would not be worth such a crippling disadvantage.

 =Angel= wrote:


Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

In the time it takes the Star Wars fleet to punch in co-ordinates, they would either be floating scrapmetal or boarded and controlled by the Imperium. They might be able to get a transmission off.
Youre also forgetting that 40k worlds have planetary defense lasers and orbital defenses designed to take out 40k ships.
I'm not questioning the EVIL GALACTIC EMPIRE's will to Base Delta Zero entire worlds of the Imperium. Rather, I'm skeptical that they'd last a minute in orbit against 40k scale weapons.

You're assuming that an Imperial Star Destroyer takes as long to calculate the coordinates as the Millennium Falcon. This is almost certainly false as the computing power available to a Star Destroyer will be vastly greater than that of the Falcon, whose hyperdrive doesn't even speak a language that many people can understand.

Also, Han Solo aptly demonstrates in the most recent film that a pilot with enough skill (and insanity) can time their lightspeed manoeuvre so that they can drop out in a planets atmosphere.

And then there is Star Killer base which is capable of destroying whole planets from a different star system. So the 40K Imperial Navy would be useless as whilst they're trying to defend planets, the Empire/First Order/Whoever can just go and sit in a different star system, charge up their gun and then wipe out the planet and entire enemy fleet. All the Star Wars forces need to do is point that thing at Earth and they win the whole campaign as the 40K IOM navy becomes incapable of using FTL.

Star Wars wins this hands down. Before episode 7 it might have been close, but with Starkiller Base? It becomes no contest.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

This seems like a rather generous assumption given fluff descriptions of 40k fleets taking hours or even days to prepare for battle. Which is fine because, in 40k, everyone spends lots of time floating around in normal space before getting into firing range. They simply don't have the ability to precisely jump to a destination and immediately start shooting.

A 40k ship drops out of the Warp a hell of a long way from the target world - so it's not an issue.



As noted, it's essentially incompatible hand-wave physics - it's the same reason (In reverse) why, whilst the guard generally get murdered on the ground, the Imperial Navy has a tendancy to kick the Tau sideways in naval wars - FTL comms, FTL-capable destroyer-sized escort craft to do recon, faster strategic speed.

All of this is true in reverse to an even greater extent with Star Wars - even fighters can do (short) interstellar hops to act as your recon element, FTL communication is pretty much instantaneous, clear and reliable, and as noted an interstellar jump - even allowing for 'calculation time' seems to take a few minutes and brings you out in near-orbit rather than at the edge of the system.

The problem with SW FTL drive is that it needs very detailed and up-to-date star charts to function. Or else in the words of Han Solo: "we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" And as seen from the fact that the Star Wars civilisation has yet to explore half of its own system, the capabilities of Star Wars ships to fly to an uncharted destination are minimal to non-existant.

Someone had to map those routes in the first place, which means they have some sort of method of recon and leaping into formerly uncharted space - perhaps probe droids? If the two universes were to come in contact, I imagine the SW ships could collect jump data fairly quickly to assault into IoM territory.

What your arguing is akin to saying that tanks have to fight on roads or autobauns, and can't go off-road. Granted, you wouldn't want to do the equivilant of driving into a swamp, but a competant military would have recon checking for thos sort of obstacles and ways around them.

It's stated that it takes a very long time to map the galaxy in SW. Hell, theres even systems and planets lost due to the map being lost. Or secret hyperspace charts not known by the common people. As seen in the Force awakens.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:


Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

In the time it takes the Star Wars fleet to punch in co-ordinates, they would either be floating scrapmetal or boarded and controlled by the Imperium. They might be able to get a transmission off.
Youre also forgetting that 40k worlds have planetary defense lasers and orbital defenses designed to take out 40k ships.
I'm not questioning the EVIL GALACTIC EMPIRE's will to Base Delta Zero entire worlds of the Imperium. Rather, I'm skeptical that they'd last a minute in orbit against 40k scale weapons.

You're assuming that an Imperial Star Destroyer takes as long to calculate the coordinates as the Millennium Falcon. This is almost certainly false as the computing power available to a Star Destroyer will be vastly greater than that of the Falcon, whose hyperdrive doesn't even speak a language that many people can understand.

Also, Han Solo aptly demonstrates in the most recent film that a pilot with enough skill (and insanity) can time their lightspeed manoeuvre so that they can drop out in a planets atmosphere.

And then there is Star Killer base which is capable of destroying whole planets from a different star system. So the 40K Imperial Navy would be useless as whilst they're trying to defend planets, the Empire/First Order/Whoever can just go and sit in a different star system, charge up their gun and then wipe out the planet and entire enemy fleet. All the Star Wars forces need to do is point that thing at Earth and they win the whole campaign as the 40K IOM navy becomes incapable of using FTL.

Star Wars wins this hands down. Before episode 7 it might have been close, but with Starkiller Base? It becomes no contest.

Except they don't know where Terra is or that that specific planet is the key one to destroy and StarKiller has 1 or 2 shots. Not a great chance.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:


Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

In the time it takes the Star Wars fleet to punch in co-ordinates, they would either be floating scrapmetal or boarded and controlled by the Imperium. They might be able to get a transmission off.
Youre also forgetting that 40k worlds have planetary defense lasers and orbital defenses designed to take out 40k ships.
I'm not questioning the EVIL GALACTIC EMPIRE's will to Base Delta Zero entire worlds of the Imperium. Rather, I'm skeptical that they'd last a minute in orbit against 40k scale weapons.

You're assuming that an Imperial Star Destroyer takes as long to calculate the coordinates as the Millennium Falcon. This is almost certainly false as the computing power available to a Star Destroyer will be vastly greater than that of the Falcon, whose hyperdrive doesn't even speak a language that many people can understand.

Also, Han Solo aptly demonstrates in the most recent film that a pilot with enough skill (and insanity) can time their lightspeed manoeuvre so that they can drop out in a planets atmosphere.

And then there is Star Killer base which is capable of destroying whole planets from a different star system. So the 40K Imperial Navy would be useless as whilst they're trying to defend planets, the Empire/First Order/Whoever can just go and sit in a different star system, charge up their gun and then wipe out the planet and entire enemy fleet. All the Star Wars forces need to do is point that thing at Earth and they win the whole campaign as the 40K IOM navy becomes incapable of using FTL.

Star Wars wins this hands down. Before episode 7 it might have been close, but with Starkiller Base? It becomes no contest.

The Starkiller base was destroyed by maybe 15 xwings... plus you need to know where the planets are at first before you can shoot at them. Again,starkillers pointless till they get to a planet worth blowing up. Once they find that planet, I doubt the scouts will get away or a message out in time.

 kinratha wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Except that "clustered" blob could only really be hurt by the macguffin ship.

I think his point about their ship is that yes it is capable of destroying stuff on the ground effectively. Also if you watch the cinematic it takes hours to position the fleet and then mere minutes to destroy it completely. So yes if his ship had days it could destroy the planet on its own.

It's a matter of saving time by having the whole fleet do it at once. He knew with every second you might escape so why give you that by using only one ship? The point is if those old crappy ships from 4000k years ago can easily do it in a few minutes maybe an hour at tops then the newer the Star Wars ships get the more overkill it gets. 40k is finished. The Star Wars ships are just too fast to engage and they hit like a brick. In the early part of the war the 40k universe would be at an advantage because SW one needs to map the galaxy but it's not going to take long.

The weapon damage almost never changes throughout Starwars, as in Turbolasers in the old republic did them same damage as the one in the clone wars. The only difference would probably be the efficiency of power drained on the ships capacitor. Sure missiles may have been upgraded but the laser and ion weapons haven't changed.

Not true a Derraphim Class Sith ship was found and it endguaged stuff from 4000BBY and got its gak kicked in. Funnily enough the Old Republic stuff doesn't use blasters in the old lore they use a different style of technology that is more powerful but less reliable. Whatever the less reliable means I don't know it's usually depicted having less ammunition as well and less range. It subsequently had to be modernized. People need to realize Star Wars doesn't advance much with new technology, but the stuff it has gets better and better. Lighhtspeed is far slower in the 4000BBY ships, but still far faster than 40k ships.

 Gamgee wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Except that "clustered" blob could only really be hurt by the macguffin ship.

I think his point about their ship is that yes it is capable of destroying stuff on the ground effectively. Also if you watch the cinematic it takes hours to position the fleet and then mere minutes to destroy it completely. So yes if his ship had days it could destroy the planet on its own.

It's a matter of saving time by having the whole fleet do it at once. He knew with every second you might escape so why give you that by using only one ship? The point is if those old crappy ships from 4000k years ago can easily do it in a few minutes maybe an hour at tops then the newer the Star Wars ships get the more overkill it gets. 40k is finished. The Star Wars ships are just too fast to engage and they hit like a brick. In the early part of the war the 40k universe would be at an advantage because SW one needs to map the galaxy but it's not going to take long.

The weapon damage almost never changes throughout Starwars, as in Turbolasers in the old republic did them same damage as the one in the clone wars. The only difference would probably be the efficiency of power drained on the ships capacitor. Sure missiles may have been upgraded but the laser and ion weapons haven't changed.

Not true a Derraphim Class Sith ship was found and it endguaged stuff from 4000BBY and got its gak kicked in. Funnily enough the Old Republic stuff doesn't use blasters in the old lore they use a different style of technology that is more powerful but less reliable. Whatever the less reliable means I don't know it's usually depicted having less ammunition as well and less range. It subsequently had to be modernized. People need to realize Star Wars doesn't advance much with new technology, but the stuff it has gets better and better. Lighhtspeed is far slower in the 4000BBY ships, but still far faster than 40k ships.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Derriphan-class_battleship

The ship doesn't even have shields, of course it got rekt. The shields is the only think keeping at SSD alive, that's why the Moncalimari ships used large amounts of ion weapons.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

This seems like a rather generous assumption given fluff descriptions of 40k fleets taking hours or even days to prepare for battle. Which is fine because, in 40k, everyone spends lots of time floating around in normal space before getting into firing range. They simply don't have the ability to precisely jump to a destination and immediately start shooting.

A 40k ship drops out of the Warp a hell of a long way from the target world - so it's not an issue.

As noted, it's essentially incompatible hand-wave physics - it's the same reason (In reverse) why, whilst the guard generally get murdered on the ground, the Imperial Navy has a tendancy to kick the Tau sideways in naval wars - FTL comms, FTL-capable destroyer-sized escort craft to do recon, faster strategic speed.

All of this is true in reverse to an even greater extent with Star Wars - even fighters can do (short) interstellar hops to act as your recon element, FTL communication is pretty much instantaneous, clear and reliable, and as noted an interstellar jump - even allowing for 'calculation time' seems to take a few minutes and brings you out in near-orbit rather than at the edge of the system.

The problem with SW FTL drive is that it needs very detailed and up-to-date star charts to function. Or else in the words of Han Solo: "we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" And as seen from the fact that the Star Wars civilisation has yet to explore half of its own system, the capabilities of Star Wars ships to fly to an uncharted destination are minimal to non-existant.

Someone had to map those routes in the first place, which means they have some sort of method of recon and leaping into formerly uncharted space - perhaps probe droids? If the two universes were to come in contact, I imagine the SW ships could collect jump data fairly quickly to assault into IoM territory.

Yup, they use probe droids. But it is very slow. Remember that only just over half of the Star Wars galaxy has been explored so far, and that took them over 30,000 years (with many different civilisations working together). Given the resistance that would undoubtedly be given by the IoM and other civilisations of 40k, the exploration of the Milky Way would likely take even longer that.
And that is yet another reason why the whole 40k vs Star Wars thing is ridiculous. Both sides don't even have a way to invade each other!

 Ashiraya wrote:
And if shields were so much radically tougher than the hull, why are TIE going without shields? The cost would not be worth such a crippling disadvantage.

Probably because the TIE fighter is designed to survive by being maneuverable enough to avoid damage entirely. Meanwhile, if you go by movie evidence rather than game mechanics where the player's ship is made super-durable for balance reasons, rebel ships with shields don't seem to be all that durable. A decent burst from a TIE fighter in a good firing position is enough to destroy them. The main benefit seems to be a degree of protection from stray fire and desperate snap shots, and against well-aimed fire the only difference is that an x-wing explodes slowly enough that the pilot might be able to eject instead of simply vaporizing instantly.

 kinratha wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Except that "clustered" blob could only really be hurt by the macguffin ship.

I think his point about their ship is that yes it is capable of destroying stuff on the ground effectively. Also if you watch the cinematic it takes hours to position the fleet and then mere minutes to destroy it completely. So yes if his ship had days it could destroy the planet on its own.

It's a matter of saving time by having the whole fleet do it at once. He knew with every second you might escape so why give you that by using only one ship? The point is if those old crappy ships from 4000k years ago can easily do it in a few minutes maybe an hour at tops then the newer the Star Wars ships get the more overkill it gets. 40k is finished. The Star Wars ships are just too fast to engage and they hit like a brick. In the early part of the war the 40k universe would be at an advantage because SW one needs to map the galaxy but it's not going to take long.

The weapon damage almost never changes throughout Starwars, as in Turbolasers in the old republic did them same damage as the one in the clone wars. The only difference would probably be the efficiency of power drained on the ships capacitor. Sure missiles may have been upgraded but the laser and ion weapons haven't changed.

Not true a Derraphim Class Sith ship was found and it endguaged stuff from 4000BBY and got its gak kicked in. Funnily enough the Old Republic stuff doesn't use blasters in the old lore they use a different style of technology that is more powerful but less reliable. Whatever the less reliable means I don't know it's usually depicted having less ammunition as well and less range. It subsequently had to be modernized. People need to realize Star Wars doesn't advance much with new technology, but the stuff it has gets better and better. Lighhtspeed is far slower in the 4000BBY ships, but still far faster than 40k ships.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Derriphan-class_battleship

The ship doesn't even have shields, of course it got rekt. The shields is the only think keeping at SSD alive, that's why the Moncalimari ships used large amounts of ion weapons.

In that case the Republic ships and Sith ships are completely technologically outpaced by the time of the Eternal Empire Fleet conquers the galaxy. It's said they can't hurt their ships effectively enough to cause enough losses. The only thing they had was superior speed to keep away. And that's a few scant years of secret weapons development by the Sith Emperor. Imagine how much stronger they all are by the time of the movies.

 Gamgee wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Except that "clustered" blob could only really be hurt by the macguffin ship.

I think his point about their ship is that yes it is capable of destroying stuff on the ground effectively. Also if you watch the cinematic it takes hours to position the fleet and then mere minutes to destroy it completely. So yes if his ship had days it could destroy the planet on its own.

It's a matter of saving time by having the whole fleet do it at once. He knew with every second you might escape so why give you that by using only one ship? The point is if those old crappy ships from 4000k years ago can easily do it in a few minutes maybe an hour at tops then the newer the Star Wars ships get the more overkill it gets. 40k is finished. The Star Wars ships are just too fast to engage and they hit like a brick. In the early part of the war the 40k universe would be at an advantage because SW one needs to map the galaxy but it's not going to take long.

The weapon damage almost never changes throughout Starwars, as in Turbolasers in the old republic did them same damage as the one in the clone wars. The only difference would probably be the efficiency of power drained on the ships capacitor. Sure missiles may have been upgraded but the laser and ion weapons haven't changed.

Not true a Derraphim Class Sith ship was found and it endguaged stuff from 4000BBY and got its gak kicked in. Funnily enough the Old Republic stuff doesn't use blasters in the old lore they use a different style of technology that is more powerful but less reliable. Whatever the less reliable means I don't know it's usually depicted having less ammunition as well and less range. It subsequently had to be modernized. People need to realize Star Wars doesn't advance much with new technology, but the stuff it has gets better and better. Lighhtspeed is far slower in the 4000BBY ships, but still far faster than 40k ships.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Derriphan-class_battleship

The ship doesn't even have shields, of course it got rekt. The shields is the only think keeping at SSD alive, that's why the Moncalimari ships used large amounts of ion weapons.

In that case the Republic ships and Sith ships are completely technologically outpaced by the time of the Eternal Empire Fleet conquers the galaxy. It's said they can't hurt their ships effectively enough to cause enough losses. The only thing they had was superior speed to keep away. And that's a few scant years of secret weapons development by the Sith Emperor. Imagine how much stronger they all are by the time of the movies.

cool slow now you have a big cluster slow moving blob of ships. Sounds like torpedos and nova-cannon got even better. Plus I want to point out that we have only ever seen the shields in SW stop energy weapons, not kinetic projectIles. So I bet the macro cannon would crush any ship in range.

The Eternal Fleet ships lightspeed is slow compared to Star Wars ships its far from sufficient to surpass any 40k ship as outlined through his whole thread by everyone. Their sub-light speeds seem comparable to the ships of the day.

As to the shields not working we have no way to know. However given the insane firepower of the ships in question it's unlikely to be a large factor in 40k ships. In the Saga Edition RPG it is explained though that ballistic weapons are seen as weak and inferior if cheap to make weapons. It is implied that armor got too advanced for ballistic weaponry to stay effective. This is however soft evidence.