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Why is this still dragging on? The two franchises are on entirely different scales. 40K is so ridiculously over the top "GRIMDRARK MOAR POWURR!" that of course it would "win." Most of the codex fluff writing is (I hope) deliberately ridiculous to make it not so depressing. "The EMPRAH eats the souls of like a pachillion psykers because he's so awesome and little guys get eated." If it was that grimdark in a serious tone, it would just be a bummer.

Forget the imperium of man. Daemons win. They don't even need to travel. A warp storm opens up and those poor little SW ship crews start getting possessed and ripped apart.

Meanwhile the Tyranids are closing in from all sides and evolving new life forms to match anything the SW universe throws at them. The Eldar have the webway too. Just putting it out there.

 Lord Corellia wrote:
Why is this still dragging on? The two franchises are on entirely different scales. 40K is so ridiculously over the top "GRIMDRARK MOAR POWURR!" that of course it would "win." Most of the codex fluff writing is (I hope) deliberately ridiculous to make it not so depressing. "The EMPRAH eats the souls of like a pachillion psykers because he's so awesome and little guys get eated." If it was that grimdark in a serious tone, it would just be a bummer.

Honestly, these treads 90 % of the time drag on until cap or get blocked and purged, happens every few months or so.

 Dyslexican32 wrote:
So, Just curious, if the shields of a star destroyer can stop projectile weapons, why can fighters and other small ships buzz threw those same shields all day? just curious if there is even a reason for that? Or if they actually DON'T stop projectiles, and are only designed to stop energy weapons? .

They can't, at least not every type of shield.

That's why Lando ordered the rebel fighters to disengage from the Death Star run in ROTJ and why Han had to pull off the crazy disengage lightspeed within a planets atmosphere trick in TFA.

Quick point- a Star Destroyer isn't called that because it destroys stars, or planets. Its called that because its a destroyerthat operates in space (the stars) just like a Starfighter is a fighter that is in space rather than something that fights stars.

Other point, people keep saying words like 'TFA', 'Starkiller base' and 'Han came out of hyperspace behind a shield'. I don't know what any of that means, it sounds like StarTrek technobabble. Maybe some of you are getting mixed up with a different series of movies that have nothing to do with Episodes 1-6.

As noted, a single star destroyer can, over time, kill an un-shielded planet. To kill a shielded planet, they need to land troops first- ala Hoth. This is both a practical narrative device to produce ground conflict in universe and evidence that shield strength scales- the EPVI deathstar shields would have been impenetrable to starwars ships had the rebels not taken down the generator.

A single ship cannot blockade a planet though- you need a fleet for that. Even with a fleet, rebels were able to escape Hoth by using a planetary defense weapon which with 1 shot, disabled an ISD.

Also, canonically, torpedoes do pass through ray shields which are impervious to blasterfire. They are not designed to be used on shielded starships as they are relatively weak.
When the SSD's shields went down (through being bombarded by normal turbolaser fire, or through having one of the sensor towers blown up, take your pick) it was then vulnerable to conventional attacks- the order to intensify forward firepower could be to protect it from bombing runs or to drive off ships making attack runs. An Awing starfighter smashing into the bridge was enough to remove all helm control from the ship.

40k ships void shields do allow torpedoes to pass through. The issue there is that proton torps and missile weapons are relatively rare in starwars for the reasons above- in starwars lasercannon/turbolasers are far more efficient. In contrast, all 40k ships have giant cannons in addition to their giant energy weapons, hurling shells larger than starfighters.
40k ships, like starwars ships also have turrets designed to engage bombers making attack runs. Those torps that might get through are then striking hulls designed to tank hits from torpedoes larger than the craft that fired them.

 =Angel= wrote:
Other point, people keep saying words like 'TFA', 'Starkiller base' and 'Han came out of hyperspace behind a shield'. I don't know what any of that means, it sounds like StarTrek technobabble. Maybe some of you are getting mixed up with a different series of movies that have nothing to do with Episodes 1-6.

I'm assuming you haven't seen The Force Awakens (or TFA for short). There is a base called Starkiller base (presumably in honour of Skywalker's original last name "Starkiller"), that in order to get past the planetary shield, Han had to be travelling in hypersapce. No mix up with another sci-fi series that would definitely get squashed by any 40k faction.

As noted, a single star destroyer can, over time, kill an un-shielded planet. To kill a shielded planet, they need to land troops first- ala Hoth. This is both a practical narrative device to produce ground conflict in universe and evidence that shield strength scales- the EPVI deathstar shields would have been impenetrable to starwars ships had the rebels not taken down the generator.

Or have a weapon powerful enough to destroy a planet in less than 1 second. Hoth was not shielded, only the rebel base was.

 Gamgee wrote:
Proton Torpedos get stopped and without shields a proton torpedo hit can do serious damage. So don't go thinking all they stop is asteroids.

There are many Starfighters carrying Proton Torpedos, Consussion Missiles, and other missile like weapons. X-Wings carry about 4-8 Proton Torpedos and just one can cause significant structural damage if it hits. These are powerful weapons and are used to destroy the Death Stars core.

The Star Wars ships firepower is so superior to 40k the 40k ships are in extreme danger of dying before any drop pods can be launched. A last ditch kamikaze teleportarium attack would work but lose momentum without reinforcing it since the ship launching it is dead. There will be no protracted battle for the 40k ships since they will be dying from the SW ships superior firepower.

The Star Wars ships have them out gunned and out maneuvered. So not only can they use overwhelming force but they can chase and harass them to death with hit and run. They might even possible outnumber them since the Star Wars universe will better able to response to attacks in force due to its greater FTL speeds.

The most prestigious fleet in the Empire could not do to a backwater ice planet what any Imperial warship can do with a single shot. So either SW ships have regressed technologically since the Old Republic or the ship that killed Taris was a unique example, Either way, you seem to have a distinct bias towards Star Wars.

Also, what evidence do you have that Star Wars ships are quicker than 40k ships? And if we're talking numbers, the Imperial Navy only has a few thousand Imperial Star Destroyers. Unless they have tens of thousands of victory class ships squirreled away I hardly doubt 40k is outnumbered.

Both incompetent Empires will have executed their entire command staffs before it's all over. That's the only thing we can really get from the "canonical" sources. Both sides are written to be idiots.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Proton Torpedos get stopped and without shields a proton torpedo hit can do serious damage. So don't go thinking all they stop is asteroids.

There are many Starfighters carrying Proton Torpedos, Consussion Missiles, and other missile like weapons. X-Wings carry about 4-8 Proton Torpedos and just one can cause significant structural damage if it hits. These are powerful weapons and are used to destroy the Death Stars core.

The Star Wars ships firepower is so superior to 40k the 40k ships are in extreme danger of dying before any drop pods can be launched. A last ditch kamikaze teleportarium attack would work but lose momentum without reinforcing it since the ship launching it is dead. There will be no protracted battle for the 40k ships since they will be dying from the SW ships superior firepower.

The Star Wars ships have them out gunned and out maneuvered. So not only can they use overwhelming force but they can chase and harass them to death with hit and run. They might even possible outnumber them since the Star Wars universe will better able to response to attacks in force due to its greater FTL speeds.

The most prestigious fleet in the Empire could not do to a backwater ice planet what any Imperial warship can do with a single shot. So either SW ships have regressed technologically since the Old Republic or the ship that killed Taris was a unique example, Either way, you seem to have a distinct bias towards Star Wars.

Also, what evidence do you have that Star Wars ships are quicker than 40k ships? And if we're talking numbers, the Imperial Navy only has a few thousand Imperial Star Destroyers. Unless they have tens of thousands of victory class ships squirreled away I hardly doubt 40k is outnumbered.

They cross their entire galaxy in a matter of hours (SW does), rather than years (which the IoM requires). The Imperium of Man also does not have tens of thousands of Gothic-class, or equivalent, vessels. Sector battlefleets aren't that big, and there's a limited number of sectors.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Imperium of Man also does not have tens of thousands of Gothic-class, or equivalent, vessels. Sector battlefleets aren't that big, and there's a limited number of sectors.

A sector is in average cube of 200 ly. Using the smallest dimensions for the galaxy (100,000 ly for diameter and 1,000 ly for thickness), there is enough space for almost a million sectors. If we use the maximum possible size of the galaxy (180,000 and 2,000) we get 6 million possible sectors.

So no, there is a lot of sectors. Even if the IoM only had 1 Gothic-class or equivalent per sector, it would still be nearly a million vessels for that class.

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Imperium of Man also does not have tens of thousands of Gothic-class, or equivalent, vessels. Sector battlefleets aren't that big, and there's a limited number of sectors.

A sector is in average cube of 200 ly. Using the smallest dimensions for the galaxy (100,000 ly for diameter and 1,000 ly for thickness), there is enough space for almost a million sectors. If we use the maximum possible size of the galaxy (180,000 and 2,000) we get 6 million possible sectors.

So no, there is a lot of sectors. Even if the IoM only had 1 Gothic-class or equivalent per sector, it would still be nearly a million vessels for that class.

And each sector gets typically between 50 to 75 cruiser class or higher(so let's say midpoint 60). Plus many squadrons of escorts(each of which is noticably bigger than star destroyer) and other support staff.

Add to that planetary fleets and bases.

Sooooo...Dismissing planetary fleets we get then say 300 million cruiser+ whatever escorts. Even if we assume 10 squadrons of 3(resulting in cruiser+ outnumbering escorts 2-1...Unrealistic!) that would be 150 million escorts.

Bejezus. That's a lot of ships!

This is assuming that each "sector" is a uniform volume, that every sector has a meaningful fleet, and that the entire galaxy is divided into sectors instead of just particular areas of relevance to the Imperium

 Peregrine wrote:
This is assuming that each "sector" is a uniform volume, that every sector has a meaningful fleet, and that the entire galaxy is divided into sectors instead of just particular areas of relevance to the Imperium

Some sectors would be bigger, other smaller, I used the average size. Also the sectors are general blocs of space used to chart the galaxy, they have little to do with the actual distribution of the IoM worlds.

Edit: true, there still a lot of the galaxy the IoM hasn't explored and charted, but even then we are still looking at hundreds of thousands of sectors.

 Peregrine wrote:
This is assuming that each "sector" is a uniform volume, that every sector has a meaningful fleet, and that the entire galaxy is divided into sectors instead of just particular areas of relevance to the Imperium

That's why it's typical. Some get less, some get more. So yeah there can be sector with 10 or less but there can be sectors with 200 or more.

And imperial star destroyers PEAKED at 25.000...420 typical sector and you are already outnumbered by cruiser+ vessels.

And we are still ignoring the other factions in the galaxy.

Hive Fleet Leviathan alone has splinter fleets with millions of ships each, and Orks outnumber any other faction with the possible exception of the Tyranids.

tneva82 wrote:
That's why it's typical. Some get less, some get more. So yeah there can be sector with 10 or less but there can be sectors with 200 or more.

And, going by 40k's theme of "everything useful is rare and priceless lost technology" it's likely that 99% of those sectors have one isolated mining outpost "protected" by a converted ore hauler armed with a single lasgun, 0.9% have major planets and maybe an old half-functional frigate to defend them, and 0.1% have major planets and a significant fleet.

And imperial star destroyers PEAKED at 25.000...420 typical sector and you are already outnumbered by cruiser+ vessels.

But remember the speed difference. There might only be 25,000 star destroyers (plus huge numbers of other ships), but all 25,000 can be anywhere in the galaxy within a few hours, a few days at most. This kind of strategic mobility is an absolute nightmare for the Imperium. Concentrate ~400 sectors worth of ships in one place to stop an attacking fleet and it rampages through the other 399.99 sectors while the defending ships have no hope of getting back in time to defend them. Spread out to protect every target and you get 25,000 star destroyers concentrated on a single target, one at a time. Counter-attack with ~400 sectors worth of ships and you lose 400 sectors worth of planets, and the attacking star destroyers can still respond to a call for help, temporarily break off their attack, and be back into defensive positions before the 40k fleet can crawl its way from its warp exit point to a target.

 Peregrine wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
That's why it's typical. Some get less, some get more. So yeah there can be sector with 10 or less but there can be sectors with 200 or more.

And, going by 40k's theme of "everything useful is rare and priceless lost technology" it's likely that 99% of those sectors have one isolated mining outpost "protected" by a converted ore hauler armed with a single lasgun, 0.9% have major planets and maybe an old half-functional frigate to defend them, and 0.1% have major planets and a significant fleet.

Which is why the rest of the sectors then have it even bigger.

Still we end up with ~6 million cruiser+ ships and likely multiples of escorts(each which outsize star destroyer) assuming IoM works like modern fleets with escorts outnumbering cruiser+.

But remember the speed difference. There might only be 25,000 star destroyers (plus huge numbers of other ships), but all 25,000 can be anywhere in the galaxy within a few hours, a few days at most. This kind of strategic mobility is an absolute nightmare for the Imperium. Concentrate ~400 sectors worth of ships in one place to stop an attacking fleet and it rampages through the other 399.99 sectors while the defending ships have no hope of getting back in time to defend them. Spread out to protect every target and you get 25,000 star destroyers concentrated on a single target, one at a time. Counter-attack with ~400 sectors worth of ships and you lose 400 sectors worth of planets, and the attacking star destroyers can still respond to a call for help, temporarily break off their attack, and be back into defensive positions before the 40k fleet can crawl its way from its warp exit point to a target.

They won't be moving in 25.000 groups and each planet tends to have their own fleets as well so it's not like they are facing empty planets(also few hours is dubious since there's references to multi day travels even when not going from end to end).

Also keep in mind 40k ships looks to have bigger guns. Video before showed stream of bombardment against planet with each hit blowing just pieces of building. Yeah it flattens city though takes time.

ONE lance hit from 40k capital ship and entire city is "poof". And that's not accounting the planet destroying weapons.

40k ships 100% certainly outnumbers star wars ships by ridiculous scale.
40k ship weapons are bigger and nastier with similar certainty.

Why? 40k numbers are deliberately off the sensible scale wacko numbers They are deliberately so off the scale in terms of sensibility that...Star war numbers meanwhile are more sensible.

SW's have the speed but they can't do hit&run forever.

Oh and people note about warp travel slowness but it's not so much slow as random. And it has funny habit of time not being linear. You could end up with fleet that pops up to help that was sent from _future_

Not that it really matters since there's no way of giving definite answer. Best one can do is "I don't know"

tneva82 wrote:

And each sector gets typically between 50 to 75 cruiser class or higher(so let's say midpoint 60). Plus many squadrons of escorts(each of which is noticably bigger than star destroyer) and other support staff.

Sooooo...Dismissing planetary fleets we get then say 300 million cruiser+ whatever escorts. Even if we assume 10 squadrons of 3(resulting in cruiser+ outnumbering escorts 2-1...Unrealistic!) that would be 150 million escorts.

Bejezus. That's a lot of ships!

Sorry you've got the wrong. The quoted figures are 50 to 75 warp capable ships per sector, not cruisers. Your estimate is waaaaay off. And if I remember the ratios correctly its 3 escorts for every cruiser and above, that's only 15 or so cruisers per sector.

 Happyjew wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
Other point, people keep saying words like 'TFA', 'Starkiller base' and 'Han came out of hyperspace behind a shield'. I don't know what any of that means, it sounds like StarTrek technobabble. Maybe some of you are getting mixed up with a different series of movies that have nothing to do with Episodes 1-6.

I'm assuming you haven't seen The Force Awakens (or TFA for short). There is a base called Starkiller base (presumably in honour of Skywalker's original last name "Starkiller"), that in order to get past the planetary shield, Han had to be travelling in hypersapce. No mix up with another sci-fi series that would definitely get squashed by any 40k faction.

As noted, a single star destroyer can, over time, kill an un-shielded planet. To kill a shielded planet, they need to land troops first- ala Hoth. This is both a practical narrative device to produce ground conflict in universe and evidence that shield strength scales- the EPVI deathstar shields would have been impenetrable to starwars ships had the rebels not taken down the generator.

Or have a weapon powerful enough to destroy a planet in less than 1 second. Hoth was not shielded, only the rebel base was.

There you go again. Technobabble. Definitely not a thing that happened in any StarWars movie.


Re: Hoth- Star destroyers don't carry Superlasers. The reason the Death Star was scary is that it was unprecedented in living memory. Planets can be devastated by entire fleets or by a warship acting alone.
Yes, only the rebel base was shielded. That allowed the Imps to land beyond the shields. If the planet had been shielded it would have been a siege. The real point of Hoth wasn't even to kill the base- it was for Vader to recover Skywalker alive. If Vader could have just hyperspaced an assault shuttle through the shields he would have.
I'm guessing had Luke not been there they would have landed ground troops, dropped the shields and then glassed the base from orbit- mopping up survivors with the ground troops.

tneva82 wrote:

Still we end up with ~6 million cruiser+ ships and likely multiples of escorts(each which outsize star destroyer) assuming IoM works like modern fleets with escorts outnumbering cruiser+.

As above this figure is wrong.

They won't be moving in 25.000 groups and each planet tends to have their own fleets as well so it's not like they are facing empty planets(also few hours is dubious since there's references to multi day travels even when not going from end to end).

Sw doesn't have to move the ships in blocks of 25k. SW hyperdrives are accurate enough for the fleet to drop into the outer reaches of the system, take readings and then warp into orbit, bypassing the entire defending fleets, glass the planet and then move on. And if you want to be picky about the travel time, how many 40K ships would be lost to the warp, never arriving at their destination.

Also keep in mind 40k ships looks to have bigger guns. Video before showed stream of bombardment against planet with each hit blowing just pieces of building. Yeah it flattens city though takes time.

ONE lance hit from 40k capital ship and entire city is "poof". And that's not accounting the planet destroying weapons.

Citation please. From all the other discussions on this matter, there has never been a verifiable piece of evidence supporting this.

Cheers

Andrew



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Read something funny the other day about the lack of skill displayed by the Stormtroopers. Take with salt as required.

During filming it was noticed that the sterlings magazine slot kept hitting the armour and making too much noise, so all the STs were told to fire their weapons left handed, keeping the magazines away from the armour.

So that explains their bad shooting, they all had to aim and fire using their off hands!

Cheers

Andrew

How can the SW ships travel around in foreign uncharted 40k space at hyperspeed? they have no idea where there's planets, asteroids, etc. They can't just fly around willy-nilly. We can only assume they can do it in their universe based on a long history of documenting and navigating the galaxy at less that lightspeed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it sounds like if you drop 1 librarian on any single ship, base, or planet, he'll be able to mop up everyone.

One of the most interesting things that everyone keeps ignoring is that in 40k, the Imperium is on war econmy 100% of the time, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week.

In Star Wars (E4-6), the Empire isn't on war footing. The Rebellion was so weak that it couldn't hope to fight a proper pitched battle, and was reduced to hit-and-run. The entire rebel war potential was deployed at Endor and would have been easily destroyed by the assembled Star Destroyers save for the Emperor's desire to wipe them out entirely, and the rebel's plot armor.

Looking back to Ep 1-3 when a significant proportion of the SW Galaxy's entire economy was dedicated to war, their output is significantly more, especially when you consider the output of non-Empire/Republic governments such as the Techno Union or Trade Federation. Thehe factions in Star Wars are likely to work together if fighting a universe like 40k, where as in 40k, the factions are too concerned about their own agendas too work together.

Regarding Hyperspace mapping: While its true that mapping takes time, I really wonder about how slow it would actually be if they used hyperdrive equipped droid ships to map... if anything, it was probably not done in-universe because of its ridiculous capital cost. The thing is that capital cost doesn't seem so insurmountable when it is tied to SURVIVAL.

Let's not miss the most important consideration in all of this:

Looted AT-ATs painted red to make them faster, covered in dakka.

Seriously, Orks would wreck everything.
Jedi: "Hey, these green people aren't allied to the human-rights-violating imperium. Let's send a delegation to talk to them!"
Padawan: "...I'm not sure that's a good idea, Master."
Jedi: "Padawan, there is only peace in the Force. Look, they are already sending a delegation over. I'm sure they'll be willing to trade for some modern transporters. Poor guys look like they are stuck using converted torpedoes. The eeeevil Imperium has sure been oppressing them..."
[One hour later]
Padawan: "Well, that didn't go so well.."
Jedi: "Just shut up. We got them. Prepare for warp jump back to Couressant. I need a shower."
[Ship full of Ork spores en route to SW Galaxy]

 =Angel= wrote:
I saw the film. I reject it in its entirety. It's not Star Wars, and its not what Star Wars fans are taking about when they say 'Star Wars'.

You're correct. Generally these discussions are not about Universe A vs Universe B, but Political Power from Universe A vs Political Power from Universe B. For example, SW v ST is usually Galactic Empire vs Federation.

Re: Hoth- Star destroyers don't carry Superlasers. The reason the Death Star was scary is that it was unprecedented in living memory. Planets can be devastated by entire fleets or by a warship acting alone.
Yes, only the rebel base was shielded. That allowed the Imps to land beyond the shields. If the planet had been shielded it would have been a siege. The real point of Hoth wasn't even to kill the base- it was for Vader to recover Skywalker alive. If Vader could have just hyperspaced an assault shuttle through the shields he would have.
I'm guessing had Luke not been there they would have landed ground troops, dropped the shields and then glassed the base from orbit- mopping up survivors with the ground troops.

We know that the Millennium Falcon is one of the fastest ships in the galaxy. It is plausible that other ships would not be able to move fast enough through hyprspace to penetrate the shield.

The main reason the DS was constructed was to be able to destroy a shielded planet. If we assume Alderaan was roughly Earth-like, with the same composition, same sort of construction, sam size, gravitational pull etc, it would require (at a minimum) 5E16 megatons of energy to destroy. That would destroy the planet, but it would take 10 minutes just to double in size. For Alderaan to explode that quickly would require approximately 1E22 megatons. And that's not factoring in the energy absorbed by the planetary shield. We also know (from RotJ opening scrawl) that the DS2 was even more powerful, but we don't know how much more since it nevered fired on a planet.

 keezus wrote:
One of the most interesting things that everyone keeps ignoring is that in 40k, the Imperium is on war econmy 100% of the time, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week.

In Star Wars (E4-6), the Empire isn't on war footing. Looking back to Ep 1-3 when a significant proportion of the SW Galaxy's entire economy was dedicated to war, their output is significantly more, especially when you consider the output of non-Empire/Republic governments such as the Techno Union or Trade Federation.

And the Empire under Palpatine built not one but two Deathstars in secret. The requirements in materials and manpower on a project like that is staggering - and they did it in secret? Their manufacturing capacity - if going on war footing - would be immensely huge.

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Imperium of Man also does not have tens of thousands of Gothic-class, or equivalent, vessels. Sector battlefleets aren't that big, and there's a limited number of sectors.

A sector is in average cube of 200 ly. Using the smallest dimensions for the galaxy (100,000 ly for diameter and 1,000 ly for thickness), there is enough space for almost a million sectors. If we use the maximum possible size of the galaxy (180,000 and 2,000) we get 6 million possible sectors.

So no, there is a lot of sectors. Even if the IoM only had 1 Gothic-class or equivalent per sector, it would still be nearly a million vessels for that class.

The Imperium only has 1 million worlds in it. These are not given a sector each. The worlds that sit out in the farthest reaches of Wild Space (which form the borders of each and every Segmentum) may not have a Sector Battlefleet, instead relying on more-populated neighbors to send a cruiser by every few hundred years just to check up on them.

Spetulhu wrote:

 keezus wrote:
One of the most interesting things that everyone keeps ignoring is that in 40k, the Imperium is on war econmy 100% of the time, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week.

In Star Wars (E4-6), the Empire isn't on war footing. Looking back to Ep 1-3 when a significant proportion of the SW Galaxy's entire economy was dedicated to war, their output is significantly more, especially when you consider the output of non-Empire/Republic governments such as the Techno Union or Trade Federation.

And the Empire under Palpatine built not one but two Deathstars in secret. The requirements in materials and manpower on a project like that is staggering - and they did it in secret? Their manufacturing capacity - if going on war footing - would be immensely huge.

The construction of the Death Stars was the worst kept secret in the galaxy. Yeah officially they were a secret, but anyone that could put 2 and 2 together noticed the massive amount of resources the Galactic Empire was moving around. Practically the entire military budget of the Empire went into those things, and their destruction was a crippling blow.

Psienesis wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Imperium of Man also does not have tens of thousands of Gothic-class, or equivalent, vessels. Sector battlefleets aren't that big, and there's a limited number of sectors.

A sector is in average cube of 200 ly. Using the smallest dimensions for the galaxy (100,000 ly for diameter and 1,000 ly for thickness), there is enough space for almost a million sectors. If we use the maximum possible size of the galaxy (180,000 and 2,000) we get 6 million possible sectors.

So no, there is a lot of sectors. Even if the IoM only had 1 Gothic-class or equivalent per sector, it would still be nearly a million vessels for that class.

The Imperium only has 1 million worlds in it. These are not given a sector each. The worlds that sit out in the farthest reaches of Wild Space (which form the borders of each and every Segmentum) may not have a Sector Battlefleet, instead relying on more-populated neighbors to send a cruiser by every few hundred years just to check up on them.

No one knows how many worlds the IoM has. 1 million has been sometimes mentioned, but also "millions" in some other occasions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
I saw the film. I reject it in its entirety. It's not Star Wars, and its not what Star Wars fans are taking about when they say 'Star Wars'.

You're correct. Generally these discussions are not about Universe A vs Universe B, but Political Power from Universe A vs Political Power from Universe B. For example, SW v ST is usually Galactic Empire vs Federation.

The OP doesn't make a specific scenario, which is annoying, as neither the IoM nor the GE are the only factions in their respective universes.

 Tyran wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 keezus wrote:
One of the most interesting things that everyone keeps ignoring is that in 40k, the Imperium is on war econmy 100% of the time, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week.

In Star Wars (E4-6), the Empire isn't on war footing. Looking back to Ep 1-3 when a significant proportion of the SW Galaxy's entire economy was dedicated to war, their output is significantly more, especially when you consider the output of non-Empire/Republic governments such as the Techno Union or Trade Federation.

And the Empire under Palpatine built not one but two Deathstars in secret. The requirements in materials and manpower on a project like that is staggering - and they did it in secret? Their manufacturing capacity - if going on war footing - would be immensely huge.

The construction of the Death Stars was the worst kept secret in the galaxy. Yeah officially they were a secret, but anyone that could put 2 and 2 together noticed the massive amount of resources the Galactic Empire was moving around. Practically the entire military budget of the Empire went into those things, and their destruction was a crippling blow.

Not really. The destruction of the first Death Star lost the Empire resources (which can be replaced) and a good officer (Tarkin). However, as is apparent in Empire Strikes Back, the loss of the Death Star did not cripple the Imperial Navy in any way. The loss of the second Death Star was only crippling because it also led to the loss of the Emperor, the figurehead and driving force of the whole Empire.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 keezus wrote:
One of the most interesting things that everyone keeps ignoring is that in 40k, the Imperium is on war econmy 100% of the time, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week.

In Star Wars (E4-6), the Empire isn't on war footing. Looking back to Ep 1-3 when a significant proportion of the SW Galaxy's entire economy was dedicated to war, their output is significantly more, especially when you consider the output of non-Empire/Republic governments such as the Techno Union or Trade Federation.

And the Empire under Palpatine built not one but two Deathstars in secret. The requirements in materials and manpower on a project like that is staggering - and they did it in secret? Their manufacturing capacity - if going on war footing - would be immensely huge.

The construction of the Death Stars was the worst kept secret in the galaxy. Yeah officially they were a secret, but anyone that could put 2 and 2 together noticed the massive amount of resources the Galactic Empire was moving around. Practically the entire military budget of the Empire went into those things, and their destruction was a crippling blow.

Not really. The destruction of the first Death Star lost the Empire resources (which can be replaced) and a good officer (Tarkin). However, as is apparent in Empire Strikes Back, the loss of the Death Star did not cripple the Imperial Navy in any way. The loss of the second Death Star was only crippling because it also led to the loss of the Emperor, the figurehead and driving force of the whole Empire.

I understood that the senate was dissolved and 'Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station'
The destruction of the death star was a tremendous victory not just because the Empire lost a superweapon, but they lost their boogeyman and were shown to be assaulable, rather than invincible. EP IV's opening crawl informs us that the rebels have had their first victory. The cracks are appearing and as Leia says, 'The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.'

Consider this exchange:


They are genuinely worried about the growing support for the rebellion. They know the fleet is not enough to maintain control.
After Yavin we see the Rebs being mercilessly hunted across the galaxy, we don't see what surely must be a time of great instability. Planets uprising against their appointed governors in support of the rebs, being brutally suppressed, garrissons being overrun.

The Battle of Endor saw the Empire lose an SSD, possibly some ISDs, a super weapon and both of their sith. The EU details the fracturing of the Empire in the aftermath (and tons of dark Jedi coming out of the woodwork) which is what can reasonably be expected to happen. The senate was gone, the Emperor was dead and his only obvious successor had died killing him.

Ultimately, without a sith leader and a planet shaped superweapon the Empire fell apart.
The Imperium's specialty is hunting psykers and killing worlds.

 =Angel= wrote:
I saw the film. I reject it in its entirety. It's not Star Wars, and its not what Star Wars fans are taking about when they say 'Star Wars'.

Disliking a movie doesn't make it non-canon.