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Problem with homebrew in some communities is that it will be seen as a green light to some participants to just really make gak up as they go.

Coincidentally, a guy in my local club is starting up a narrative Kill Team tournament running the HoR rules in September, and I just signed up with my Orks. Perfect timing! Started reading the rules and building lists, and it looks super fun.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Many 40k players won't touch homebrew stuff with a 10 foot pole. It doesn't matter if it's the greatest thing known to man, they'll only play "official" GW books. Even FW is still viewed with suspicion in some areas.

I know in the past when I've tried to convince people to play this or 1 page 40k it was like pulling teeth. They'll claim they hate GW's rules all day but the moment you provide them an alternative they turn their noses up at it. I have no idea why, that's just how it is.

I see that as well. I just laugh when someone says "play by the book" but then changes something that is not buy the book. I guess it's only "their" way to play and heaven forbid anyone else wants to add extra fun.

 BrookM wrote:
Problem with homebrew in some communities is that it will be seen as a green light to some participants to just really make gak up as they go.

Mostly because it's a slippery slope. You allow one homebrew army list or even unit change, and you have to allow the next. As long as it's within reason of course... but then "within reason" stretches over time.

Everyone knows you won't end up with "my homebrew that's just the same army but everything has double the wounds", but the fear is there nonetheless.

Plus, if something goes sideways, it's much easier to blame GW's rules. If someone brings a homebrew and it ends up being OP, then people start mudslinging about cheating and stuff like that. Not everyone has the patience to play games with a homebrew army a hundred times in a row to work out the kinks and balance it.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Many 40k players won't touch homebrew stuff with a 10 foot pole. It doesn't matter if it's the greatest thing known to man, they'll only play "official" GW books. Even FW is still viewed with suspicion in some areas.

I know in the past when I've tried to convince people to play this or 1 page 40k it was like pulling teeth. They'll claim they hate GW's rules all day but the moment you provide them an alternative they turn their noses up at it. I have no idea why, that's just how it is.

Yeah, unfortunately that is definitely the case in a lot of GW gaming groups. A good buddy of mine (who now happens to be in my gaming group and plays all kinds of games) refused to play any games that weren't made by GW even, and that was before they started being decent again (Roundtree era).

I think a lot of homebrew/ Rules only debates really just come down to the type of people you play with. We played quite a few games of HoR Kill Team between the eight or so of us, and we didn't notice anything that was terribly unbalanced. But we are more of a beer and pretzel type group and mostly just play themed lists and things that we think would be fun. I'm sure if you attempted to make some busted lists in HoR it would be really quite easy, but not any easier than making a busted list in 7th Ed. 40k. I think a lot of people that try to power game are turned away by homebrew stuff because 1) They don't know the meta intimately and therefore can't craft a hyper competitive army for it 2). It's a lot harder to net-list a very strong army. In essence I think it just comes down to what you want out of a game.

All that aside and a bit more on topic, I'm giving GW major thumbs up on this release. I'm happy to see them trying something different and releasing packages that are actually fair deals.

Cool new box with updated kill team rules = good.

Having just bought the current kill team rules from iTunes = annoying!

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Sorry, I should have specified Tau.

No probs - I'm not familiar with the newer Tau stuff so I just assumed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Why has nobody even mention the Heralds of Ruin Kill Team rules? Do people not know that Kill Team has had a super active, fan authored set of rules for many years now? Do people not know that it is continually updated as new codexes release and as the community finds issues? That it is already just a modification framework for the current edition of 40k? That it has codexes to match all the official (and a few unnofocial) codexes in current 40K and a complete campaign ruleset?

I'm going to go with "No, lots of people didn't/don't know about those." I'm passingly familiar with ITEN, but never heard of these before your post. Thanks for bringing it up and adding the links.

One of the major downsides of the store-focused gaming group mentality is that there is generally a strong pressure against third-party rules that the store does not sell. Things like One Page 40K are not in the store's best interest to support, since it removes incentives to buy 40K books.

Any indication of whether the points have changed for Kill Team or if they have included alternate play modes?

So if Kharn is being shown on the 3rd does that mean we're likely to see some other killteam related releases? Maybe redone Berserkers?

 Medium of Death wrote:
So if Kharn is being shown on the 3rd does that mean we're likely to see some other killteam related releases? Maybe redone Berserkers?

Redone Berserkers would be awesome, though I get the feeling the boxed set is the only Kill Team release we will be getting. It would be really nice if they did a series of Kill Team boxes kind of like a start collecting box, for say 50 USD which had a complete 200 or 250 point kill team in them. It would be a good way for new players to get into the hobby and nice for hobbyists who just want to paint up a few models for a range.

Ben2 wrote:
Any indication of whether the points have changed for Kill Team or if they have included alternate play modes?

The KT rulebook is pretty thin, and changing point cost for every unit would be a lot of work, so I don't think they've done it.
I assume it will just say stuff like "look at your codex for available options and point cost".
It will probably be a set of core rules that are more appropriate, and a new FOC that matches the low point count. I doubt there will even be a list of units that can be used for each army (to exclude things that wouldn't make sense in a KT fight), or rewrite of special rules (Tau's supporting fire might be strongly affected if overwatch in KT is different than in the BRB).

I think skirmish type games are vastly imporved by good campaign rules (henchmen that die, heros that lvl up etc.). GW did that in the past on some specialist games, so there's still a chance we might see it here.

The KT rules work pretty well with most codex books, as they for the most part all have one or two go-to units that are ideal for these scenarios with global restrictions in place to prevent people from taking nothing but vehicles, taking certain vehicles, or certain units and the like.

As for the FOC, it will (hopefully) remain the same:
0-1 Elites
0-2 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Only fix I am hoping for is the ability to give your leader a specialist skill instead of a random one, as leaders usually benefit the most from this.

Vankraken wrote:GW Please stop, the spirit is willing but the bank account is all bruised and paint queue full.

Verviedi wrote:Death by glue glue?

Bravo! I practically guarantee this will win you two an Oscar.

I am quite interested in this. I got sick of the 40K game many years ago, but I still love the universe.

 feeder wrote:


I am quite interested in this. I got sick of the 40K game many years ago, but I still love the universe.

I am really amazed at how many "previously-40Kers" seem to be appearing in the forums and elsewhere online.

GW is in a really great spot to potentially win back a lot of customers (wow that sounds so business-y) if they play their cards right with this new Kill Team box and, on a larger scale, the 8th edition of 40K.

I am excited for what the future holds and really hope that the new changes improve the game (in my very-subjective viewpoint, of course).

fresus wrote:


I think skirmish type games are vastly imporved by good campaign rules (henchmen that die, heros that lvl up etc.). GW did that in the past on some specialist games, so there's still a chance we might see it here.

I definitely agree. I'm hoping that the few changes they make are some simple campaign rules and add a few more missions.

I don't recall of the top of my head if this edition you had to buy minimum squads in your FOC, but If that is the case they change to making each model have a point cost (divide the squad total by X), so that if you want a bike in your FA slot you don't need to spend nearly half your points on three.

 Sabotage! wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
...does that mean we're likely to see some other killteam related releases?...

...It would be really nice if they did a series of Kill Team boxes kind of like a start collecting box, for say 50 USD which had a complete 200 or 250 point kill team in them. It would be a good way for new players to get into the hobby and nice for hobbyists who just want to paint up a few models for a range.

I actually do think that this is what we're going to see.
The Kill Team box was listed on the retailer sheets as "Kill Team (Core Set)," which to me sounds like there are other related releases planned (I hope).
Someone somewhere mentioned how cool this would be if they release a few different boxes for this, each containing different opposing forces, kind of like what they did with the Stormcloud Attack sets.

As a PS, the MSRP on the Kill Team core set is rumored to be $65.



...I'm also getting pretty excited thinking about the possibilities for this.
Buy a Kill Team box with a faction you like (or if you like both, even better!), and buy a Start Collecting box as well for that same faction... You're on your way to an army, and even if you never plan to play 40K, you'll still have more options for your Kill Team! This is goooood marketing. Appealing to me for sure!

oops, missed some posts, n/m

I would be great to see $25-$30 box "starter"sets with a 5-10 man squad with added customization sprue...maybe a mini book army list for the faction too...

ruhe.bryan wrote:

I actually do think that this is what we're going to see.
The Kill Team box was listed on the retailer sheets as "Kill Team (Core Set)," which to me sounds like there are other related releases planned (I hope).
Someone somewhere mentioned how cool this would be if they release a few different boxes for this, each containing different opposing forces, kind of like what they did with the Stormcloud Attack sets.

As a PS, the MSRP on the Kill Team core set is rumored to be $65.



...I'm also getting pretty excited thinking about the possibilities for this.
Buy a Kill Team box with a faction you like (or if you like both, even better!), and buy a Start Collecting box as well for that same faction... You're on your way to an army, and even if you never plan to play 40K, you'll still have more options for your Kill Team! This is goooood marketing. Appealing to me for sure!

Huh. I wasn't aware that the Kill Team box was listed as a Core Set. That would be fantastic if GW did what you suggested. I would love to be able to pick up several different KT boxes. It would be neat if each one included different missions as well (ideally not faction specific so that they could be used across all KT bands).

Hopefully GW will make Inquisition playable (through an update in the KT rules or maybe at some point release a non-half a**ed codex) and Genestealer Cult as well. I suppose there is always HoR to play the more interesting factions in 40k.

Inquisition is somewhat viable, as long as you stick to henchmen.

ruhe.bryan wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
...does that mean we're likely to see some other killteam related releases?...

...It would be really nice if they did a series of Kill Team boxes kind of like a start collecting box, for say 50 USD which had a complete 200 or 250 point kill team in them. It would be a good way for new players to get into the hobby and nice for hobbyists who just want to paint up a few models for a range.

I actually do think that this is what we're going to see.
The Kill Team box was listed on the retailer sheets as "Kill Team (Core Set)," which to me sounds like there are other related releases planned (I hope).
Someone somewhere mentioned how cool this would be if they release a few different boxes for this, each containing different opposing forces, kind of like what they did with the Stormcloud Attack sets.

As a PS, the MSRP on the Kill Team core set is rumored to be $65.



...I'm also getting pretty excited thinking about the possibilities for this.
Buy a Kill Team box with a faction you like (or if you like both, even better!), and buy a Start Collecting box as well for that same faction... You're on your way to an army, and even if you never plan to play 40K, you'll still have more options for your Kill Team! This is goooood marketing. Appealing to me for sure!

"Core Set" in GW terms means a set that is to be considered a "Must Stock" if I remember correctly from a retailer explaining it before.

 BrookM wrote:
Inquisition is somewhat viable, as long as you stick to henchmen.

Assuming you want to run 12 models maximum and a vehicle it can be done, and unless you buy a Jokero or a bunch of extra junk for your acolytes it is still a stretch to fill out those points.

The FOC for Kill Teams (and the Inquisition Codex itself) makes Inquisition a pretty lame duck - which is unfortunate because they are one of the 40k factions that really should be involved in small scale engagements as opposed to large battles.


Man Kan, I hope you aren't remembering correctly (though you probably are), I was starting to get my hopes up for some actual Kill Team support .

fresus wrote:

Ben2 wrote:
Any indication of whether the points have changed for Kill Team or if they have included alternate play modes?

The KT rulebook is pretty thin, and changing point cost for every unit would be a lot of work, so I don't think they've done it.
I assume it will just say stuff like "look at your codex for available options and point cost".
It will probably be a set of core rules that are more appropriate, and a new FOC that matches the low point count. I doubt there will even be a list of units that can be used for each army (to exclude things that wouldn't make sense in a KT fight), or rewrite of special rules (Tau's supporting fire might be strongly affected if overwatch in KT is different than in the BRB).

I think skirmish type games are vastly imporved by good campaign rules (henchmen that die, heros that lvl up etc.). GW did that in the past on some specialist games, so there's still a chance we might see it here.

I meant is it still a 200 point force. Because I can put a couple of those together now. For example pirate orks.

This could lead to a lot of nice little themed warbands. Also a dozen models aren't many to paint so hopefully reluctant painters won't get sick of them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

ruhe.bryan wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
...does that mean we're likely to see some other killteam related releases?...

...It would be really nice if they did a series of Kill Team boxes kind of like a start collecting box, for say 50 USD which had a complete 200 or 250 point kill team in them. It would be a good way for new players to get into the hobby and nice for hobbyists who just want to paint up a few models for a range.

I actually do think that this is what we're going to see.
The Kill Team box was listed on the retailer sheets as "Kill Team (Core Set)," which to me sounds like there are other related releases planned (I hope).
Someone somewhere mentioned how cool this would be if they release a few different boxes for this, each containing different opposing forces, kind of like what they did with the Stormcloud Attack sets.

As a PS, the MSRP on the Kill Team core set is rumored to be $65.



...I'm also getting pretty excited thinking about the possibilities for this.
Buy a Kill Team box with a faction you like (or if you like both, even better!), and buy a Start Collecting box as well for that same faction... You're on your way to an army, and even if you never plan to play 40K, you'll still have more options for your Kill Team! This is goooood marketing. Appealing to me for sure!

"Core Set" in GW terms means a set that is to be considered a "Must Stock" if I remember correctly from a retailer explaining it before.

I expect that you're right but I really hope that's not true haha.

I too find myself dangerously close to being sucked back in by GW after almost 10 years 'out'. All those board game releases - regardless of how good or bad they might be - present themselves as a very convenient way for me to buy my way back into the universe and I have a Guard kill team good to go (heck the getting started:AM box practically IS my 200 point list.. albeit with the Inquisitor swapped out for something stompier). I'll be picking this up for sure.

It would be nice to see different sets like the Stormcloud attack boxes.

Or it would be incredibly simple to provide support via a few pages in White Dwarf every couple of months.

And let's face it, us guys will probably write some extra stuff.

It might be like the Silver Tower where we'll have "expansion packs" that are repacks of existing boxes.

That I would not mind, even if they are repacks of things I already have multiple copies of.

Gimme a $100 box with a softback rulebook, softback mini format Codex with minimal fluff and rules, and a unit of troops and an HQ for each army, and I'd be happy.