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holy crap there are fireworks characters that don't coat that much. Does he come with a gold plated base or something?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
holy crap there are fireworks characters that don't coat that much. Does he come with a gold plated base or something?

He comes with all the rage of Khorne when you realise you payed £22 for him - priceless if you ask me

 Orock wrote:
Nobody jumped to the defense of the admech player when the regular non character dominus came out at that price. Now its happening to you and its not fair. Everyone could have stood up for what is right and did not. Now all the clampacks are going to be like this. Its only going to get worse.

I pointed out that the Dominus was "bad" but acceptable because he came with two sprues (in effect he's only slightly worse than the Chaos Terminator Lord).

Kharn, once again, does not. He has literally half the plastic for the same cost.

As for everyone thinking "if you don't like it, don't buy it", do know that having ANYONE buy this, let alone let enough people who care so little about money as to actually buy them in enough numbers to justify it, will make GW think that it's ok to keep jacking up prices for the rest of us. They're only going to lower prices if they suddenly get warehouses full of stuff that aren't moving. That is not a hyperbole, it's been happening for the past half decade (where the insane current prices came from).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Kharn being expensive will not stop GW from doing well. If anybody isn't happy, they can create their own from the Berserker Marine kit and give him a fancy paint job. I don't understand what's wrong.

The fact that a character is being re-released in an inferior material to it's older iteration and is 2-3x what that character cost just a few years ago is what people have an issue with. GW's revenue has been on a decline for years, while their prices have gone up, meaning they're selling less stuff to fewer people, so it would appear to have an effect on GW's wellness.

hobojebus wrote:
I find it pretty disgusting myself, same price as a full squad to buy a plastic hero.

So much for roundtree turning things around.

GW changed the shade of Macragge blue slightly.

So much for rountree turning things around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
holy crap there are fireworks characters that don't coat that much. Does he come with a gold plated base or something?

I think this is GW's attempt at making FW prices seem reasonable.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Kharn being expensive will not stop GW from doing well. If anybody isn't happy, they can create their own from the Berserker Marine kit and give him a fancy paint job. I don't understand what's wrong.

The fact that a character is being re-released in an inferior material to it's older iteration and is 2-3x what that character cost just a few years ago is what people have an issue with. GW's revenue has been on a decline for years, while their prices have gone up, meaning they're selling less stuff to fewer people, so it would appear to have an effect on GW's wellness.

If that's an issue, create your own. It is easier to get more for your buck nowadays, and Kharn being an outlier causes hobojesus to whine.

It is complaining to complain let's be honest here.

 lion_el_johnson wrote:
I saw that the preorders for Traitor's hate had dropped and with it the pricing of the new stuff. I thought to myself, hey let's check out the new Kharn. Maybe it will be worth the preorder.

I checked the price...

$60 for one miniature.

I mean, seriously? How stupid do GW think we are. What sort of pinheaded moron priced that and though "People are likely to want to pay sixty dollars for one miniature that formerly had a model that sold in the mid 20s".

Do they honestly think $60 is a reasonable price?

There are people willing to pay that price. No me but someone.

GW is very smart and wise with their pricing because people will pay that price.

It just goes to show you how dedicated the fanboys are.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
GW is very smart and wise with their pricing because people will pay that price.

'It is a great idea to sell five models for $50. Who cares that we would have sold five thousand for $10. Our models are selling! We are smart and wise.'

Clearly you have the right of it. How could this plan possibly go wrong?

Nevermind that the volume of sales is declining. Clearly that is just what the haters are saying, right?

 Ashiraya wrote:
'It is a great idea to sell five models for $50. Who cares that we would have sold five thousand for $10. Our models are selling! We are smart and wise.'

Clearly you have the right of it. How could this plan possibly go wrong?

Nevermind that the volume of sales is declining. Clearly that is just what the haters are saying, right?

This is basically GW's mindset for the past half decade.

Or was it a full decade now? Can't remember.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Kharn being expensive will not stop GW from doing well. If anybody isn't happy, they can create their own from the Berserker Marine kit and give him a fancy paint job. I don't understand what's wrong.

The fact that a character is being re-released in an inferior material to it's older iteration and is 2-3x what that character cost just a few years ago is what people have an issue with. GW's revenue has been on a decline for years, while their prices have gone up, meaning they're selling less stuff to fewer people, so it would appear to have an effect on GW's wellness.

If that's an issue, create your own. It is easier to get more for your buck nowadays, and Kharn being an outlier causes hobojesus to whine.

It is complaining to complain let's be honest here.

Not really, and the problem is that Kharne is not an outlier, he's indicative of a trend noted by other people with other models. He may be the most high profile since, IIRC, he's the first *named* character to get this treatment, but lots of other generic characters (such as the techpriest Dominus) have as well. GW's character prices are increasingly matching and exceeding that of FW, which was for years seen as the standard for "way too expensive".

It's easy to tell people to just create their own, but that's missing a whole lot of points, and isn't just as easy for everyone as you make it sound, particularly in reasonably replicating a well known high profile and unique character.

Looking back the plastic Ulrik also got a similar treatment.

Single frame, sells for $50AUD ($10 less than Kharn).

 Vaktathi wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Kharn being expensive will not stop GW from doing well. If anybody isn't happy, they can create their own from the Berserker Marine kit and give him a fancy paint job. I don't understand what's wrong.

The fact that a character is being re-released in an inferior material to it's older iteration and is 2-3x what that character cost just a few years ago is what people have an issue with. GW's revenue has been on a decline for years, while their prices have gone up, meaning they're selling less stuff to fewer people, so it would appear to have an effect on GW's wellness.

If that's an issue, create your own. It is easier to get more for your buck nowadays, and Kharn being an outlier causes hobojesus to whine.

It is complaining to complain let's be honest here.

Not really, and the problem is that Kharne is not an outlier, he's indicative of a trend noted by other people with other models. He may be the most high profile since, IIRC, he's the first *named* character to get this treatment, but lots of other generic characters (such as the techpriest Dominus) have as well. GW's character prices are increasingly matching and exceeding that of FW, which was for years seen as the standard for "way too expensive".

It's easy to tell people to just create their own, but that's missing a whole lot of points, and isn't just as easy for everyone as you make it sound, particularly in reasonably replicating a well known high profile and unique character.

It is a special looking axe and a Plasma Pistol. A newcomer can do that with ease. Paint jobs are always harder but modeling the character to be distinct isn't that hard of a task.

You aren't obligated to buy Kharn. If enough people don't buy it then so be it. I don't plan to buy it for example regardless of price as I just don't like lots of bling.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
This release is one of the first time I've seen people confuse the Australian flag for the New Zealand one, usually it's the other way around. Quick tip folks: white with a 7 pointed star in the bottom-left corner = AUS, red star lacking a 7 pointed one is NZ.

good point
i should have double-checked the flag, instead of just reading the second post...
having lived in Auckland before, i feel stupid now

to the point of the topic in general, i am not sure why Kharn is $5 more than Ulrik, especially when the Deathwatch characters that just came out are $5 cheaper than Ulrik...
i wouldn't have been upset to see him at $25 rather than $35...
even at $30, i was happy to buy Ulrik...
he is a great sculpt, and a big dude...
i really enjoyed painting him, and now he is going up for sale...
Kharn should be fun to paint, too, and find a good home afterward

at the end of the day, i don't feel any need to "justify" GW's pricing decisions...
i either like the mini enough to buy it, or i don't...
if i want something enough, the price doesn't matter...
if it is an iconic character that i know will sell when painted, even better...

i totally get the complaints about price, but i don't share the outrage...
"expensive" is a sentiment i can totally agree with, but "over-priced" is very subjective...
a lot depends on where you live in the world...
if i was in Oz, NZ, or Japan, maybe i would be outraged, too...
in the US, 25% discounts are readily available, so that definitely helps...
i feel for my ROW people, and totally understand why you guys feel shafted :(

cheers
jah

In AUS he is $60! I would have prefered $88, at least GW would have had the excuse to say its fluffy otherwise I don't really understand the logic behind the price.

There isn't much logic. GW is just always fishing around to see how much someone will pay for a piece of plastic.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Nobody jumped to the defense of the admech player when the regular non character dominus came out at that price. Now its happening to you and its not fair. Everyone could have stood up for what is right and did not. Now all the clampacks are going to be like this. Its only going to get worse.

I pointed out that the Dominus was "bad" but acceptable because he came with two sprues (in effect he's only slightly worse than the Chaos Terminator Lord).

Kharn, once again, does not. He has literally half the plastic for the same cost.

As for everyone thinking "if you don't like it, don't buy it", do know that having ANYONE buy this, let alone let enough people who care so little about money as to actually buy them in enough numbers to justify it, will make GW think that it's ok to keep jacking up prices for the rest of us. They're only going to lower prices if they suddenly get warehouses full of stuff that aren't moving. That is not a hyperbole, it's been happening for the past half decade (where the insane current prices came from).

Not to defend GW, but the Dominus is an awesome model when assembled. My only complaint is that the pose is a bit limited, and you only get two heads, but man does the model look incredible when built. Not only that, he comes with a crazy amount of options for a clampack. Considering most characters get one option and that's it, it was nice to see.

It's the only clampack I ever looked at at full price and said "you know what, I'd probably buy that anyways". I'm glad I didn't, because I bought 3 Start collecting boxes a few months later, but it's the principle

I can multi quote but not entirely sure how so will ad lib a bit.
It appears that whatever price GW put on something there will always be someone who justifies it by saying...
a. Buy it online at discount. Well if the base price keeps soaring then your online price will too. Crazy reasoning.
b. The model uses more plastic than (insert similar but slightly smaller model) I don't think GW are pricing models based on raw material costs, even adding in the costs for the sculptors time and the moulds the mark up is huge.
c. Kit bash your own. Why? Why should we be priced out from new models due to GW's greed?
d. It's a few dollars (sometimes a lot of dollars) cheaper in my country. This is called pulling up the ladder, because I'm alright Jack. It could be argued that this one is due to monetary exchange rates but I believe more to do with GW's pricing policies.
e. It's such a cool model. I'd say that GW make some great models and have some of the most iconic (Kharne being one) characters in wargaming, yet this simply allows them to charge whatever they please.

I'm not a fan of the new model, I picked up the old one for £5 off ebay. However the pricing of the new one is fundamentally wrong. If it was about £10-£15 I'd have probably bought it. Whilst people still pay the prices they charge, GW will keep charging those prices (and undoubtedly keep raising them when they think they can get away with it)

Its 29€. The character models formerly released were all 23€. So this is a severe price increase.

 Elbows wrote:
There isn't much logic. GW is just always fishing around to see how much someone will pay for a piece of plastic.

"a piece of plastic"
if that is your sentiment, than i'm not surprised that expense would be a huge factor in what you are willing to buy...
the people that see their minis as nothing more than tokens, or just a piece of plastic, are in a completely different mindset from me...
i see miniatures as tiny pieces of art, that i get to bring to life with paint and basing...
they are little sculptures, rather than counters...
i'm buying a piece of art that get to assemble and paint, rather than tokens that i have to put together...

i think that difference in perspective is huge...
minis are physical representations of my favorite characters from art and fiction, which is the coolest thing...
some people collect action figures or statues, i collect minis in the same manner...

no other company produces art, fiction, and models in a setting that i enjoy as much as 40K...
Infinity is a close second, though

cheers
jah

You can wax poetic as much as you like, but it is just that, a piece of plastic.

I buy plenty of top tier gaming items because I find they are worth the money. A small piece of plastic? Not worth much, regardless of how romantic one may feel about it.

Luckily I play a number of games, not just 40K so I get to remain pretty even keeled on what I'm willing to spend on a figure. There are plenty of GW products which are priced fairly, and there are plenty which are not. The simple fact is that no other companies charge as much as GW does for certain things, namely small plastic figures. Fortunately for them they have people who buy the stuff regardless.

@Elbows: to you, sure it is just a piece of plastic...
to me, a mini is much more than that, they are art...
that is no reason to be so dismissive of my perspective...
it's not like i was saying that you are wrong, but that people have different ways of judging value...

i buy models from plenty of other companies...
i know the range of prices on the market...
i've been through 30 years of price increases, and still think that the new minis are worth the money, as long as i find the new sculpts to be an improvement on the older ones...

this last weekend i got the GW Deathwatch Watch Master, and the Knight Models Iron Man Hulkbuster armor...
the plastic Watch Master is a perfect cast, in a material that is a dream to work with, and takes paint beautifully...
the metal Hulkbuster armor is horribly cast, and needs a ton of clean-up before i can even think about painting it...
i like both models, but i look forward to working on the plastic on a whole lot more than the metal one, that's for sure...

is it just the material that bothers you, or the size???
do you put more value on a metal or resin mini, or does it just depend on how big it is vs. how much it costs???

cheers
jah

I compare them solely to other products I purchase. Some of the best miniatures I've ever purchased have been extremely reasonably priced. I can have just as much art in a miniature from a company who sells them for far less.

I've defended several GW products from a value perspective, but single figures on plastic sprues is not one of them. The material is irrelevant to me (except resin, that's a horrible material for gaming miniatures). I love metal figures as much as plastic.

I've splurged myself on the rare figure I'll spend $10-15 on (normally out of print metals from 2nd edition). I've just as good figures for $3.50 a pop though from other manufacturers for other periods (some of the best minis I've ever received from a manufacturer actually).

It's funny you mention Knight Models as they're at the top of my list for overpriced crap too. That's a discussion for another topic I'm sure.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'm gonna cling onto my old Kharn for the forseeable future unless he appears in a Start Collecting! box.

I miss the old Kharnye, the metal man Kharnye
Chop up your soul Kharnye, skulls for the throne Kharnye

I hate the new Kharnye, the bad tusks Kharnye
The overpriced Kharnye, spaz on his pose Kharnye
I miss the sweet Kharnye, the can't be beat Kharnye
I gotta say, at the time I'd like to sweep with Kharnye

See I invented Kharnye, I glued together Kharnye
And now I look around there's 4 types of model Kharnye
I used to love Kharnye, I bathed in blood Kharnye
I even had the chainaxe I thought I was Kharnye

What if Kharnye played a game against Kharnye?
And he charged Kharnye, man that'd be so Kharnye
That's all it was Kharnye, we still get blood for Kharnye
And I love you like Kharnye loves Khorne-ye.

Silliness aside, I might pick up the new one but still use my good old metal Kharn. Metal just feels better in your hand, you know? I just need to have my complete Kharn collection: Metal, 30k, and new plastic. Maybe someday I'll get the finecast one just for completeness, but that's doubtful.

 Elbows wrote:
I compare them solely to other products I purchase. Some of the best miniatures I've ever purchased have been extremely reasonably priced. I can have just as much art in a miniature from a company who sells them for far less.

I've defended several GW products from a value perspective, but single figures on plastic sprues is not one of them. The material is irrelevant to me (except resin, that's a horrible material for gaming miniatures). I love metal figures as much as plastic.

I've splurged myself on the rare figure I'll spend $10-15 on (normally out of print metals from 2nd edition). I've just as good figures for $3.50 a pop though from other manufacturers for other periods (some of the best minis I've ever received from a manufacturer actually).

It's funny you mention Knight Models as they're at the top of my list for overpriced crap too. That's a discussion for another topic I'm sure.

that's fair enough, and at least explains your perspective a bit, rather than just being dismissive of mine
as long as you understand that i am not arguing that cheaper models aren't art, and even easier on the wallet...
my point has always been, as long as i like a sculpt enough, i don't sweat the price too much...
there are plenty of $10-$15 minis in my collection that i really like, and just as many expensive minis i would never buy...

the major difference between us seems to be that you are a gamer, and i am a collector...
you are looking at minis as part of an entire army, warband, or gang that you would have to buy, which can add up quickly...
then they have to survive use on the tabletop...
i'm just buying single minis to paint, enter in a competition, and then sell...
it's a completely different investment...

just like the new Ulrik, new Iron Priest, new Enginseer, new Solitaire, and new Shadowseer, i like Kharn more than the original metal versions enough to buy the plastic clampacks...
others, like the new plastic Necron Overlord, i don't like better than the previous metal one, so i passed on him...
it all depends on the particular model, not so much the price or material, except for Finecast or restic...
i don't like Finecast or restic, and stay away from it at any price...
i also prefer the heroic scale chunkiness of a GW mini over true scale delicacy of Wyrd, for instance...
at the end of the day, all that matters is that your purchases make you happy...

cheers
jah

What i find hilarious about this thread, is that Kharn is still cheaper than a large number of "requisite" character models, HQ's etc.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40-000?Nao=0&Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102352+4294966883&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat
welcome to the party guys, named HQ's cost too much becuase you buy 1 instead of multiple boxes. same reason for hundreds of products you use in life. why does a new set of cabinets fost $25,000 to install in your kitchen, when its maybe $2000 in wood and $800 in labor? because you are never every doing it ever again. They have 1 chance, and they will grab every dime their actuaries say they can.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'm gonna cling onto my old Kharn for the forseeable future unless he appears in a Start Collecting! box.

I miss the old Kharnye, the metal man Kharnye
Chop up your soul Kharnye, skulls for the throne Kharnye

I hate the new Kharnye, the bad tusks Kharnye
The overpriced Kharnye, spaz on his pose Kharnye
I miss the sweet Kharnye, the can't be beat Kharnye
I gotta say, at the time I'd like to sweep with Kharnye

See I invented Kharnye, I glued together Kharnye
And now I look around there's 4 types of model Kharnye
I used to love Kharnye, I bathed in blood Kharnye
I even had the chainaxe I thought I was Kharnye

What if Kharnye played a game against Kharnye?
And he charged Kharnye, man that'd be so Kharnye
That's all it was Kharnye, we still get blood for Kharnye
And I love you like Kharnye loves Khorne-ye.

Silliness aside, I might pick up the new one but still use my good old metal Kharn. Metal just feels better in your hand, you know? I just need to have my complete Kharn collection: Metal, 30k, and new plastic. Maybe someday I'll get the finecast one just for completeness, but that's doubtful.

Kharne started from the bottom now he's here.

Many of those other models are ridiculously expensive as well, but they arent over-posed 28mm infantry models either. People get that a single character is going to cost more than a basic putz infantryman, people didnt complain about them being 3-5x the cost of a basic putz tac marine, people have issues when the cost factor approaches 10x...for a plastic model that has really no advantage to being made in plastic.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Chaplain-with-Jump-Pack
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Terminator-Captain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tyranid-Broodlord

3 non-named characters that are approx 10x the cost of base model...

 Ashiraya wrote:

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
GW is very smart and wise with their pricing because people will pay that price.

'It is a great idea to sell five models for $50. Who cares that we would have sold five thousand for $10. Our models are selling! We are smart and wise.'

Clearly you have the right of it. How could this plan possibly go wrong?

Nevermind that the volume of sales is declining. Clearly that is just what the haters are saying, right?

you mad bro?

GW has been charging ridiculous high prices but that doesnt matter because fanboys (possibly you included) will gladly pull out their wallets and pay GW with a big wide grin as if they got a bargain.

 pumaman1 wrote:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Chaplain-with-Jump-Pack
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Terminator-Captain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tyranid-Broodlord

3 non-named characters that are approx 10x the cost of base model...

And they're almost as ridiculous, though also arent basic footslogging infantry characters either (e.g. people have always been willing to pay a bit more for a jump pack or terminator armor). Kharne isnt the first character to get the over-the-top plastic treatment, just one of the most egregious. GW's entire plastic character lineup is absurd.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
GW is very smart and wise with their pricing because people will pay that price.

'It is a great idea to sell five models for $50. Who cares that we would have sold five thousand for $10. Our models are selling! We are smart and wise.'

Clearly you have the right of it. How could this plan possibly go wrong?

Nevermind that the volume of sales is declining. Clearly that is just what the haters are saying, right?

you mad bro?

GW has been charging ridiculous high prices but that doesnt matter because fanboys (possibly you included) will gladly pull out their wallets and pay GW with a big wide grin as if they got a bargain.

apparently not give declining revenue and sales volume...