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There is one person in particular I play with, which is unfortunate because our group is very small and he's the most readily available to play with, that gets to pouting about the way rules work. True Line of Sight is his biggest complaint of all.

Here's a few scenarios: He has 1 Misslile Launcher Devestator squad with Flakk, I have one FMC Daemon Prince. He deploys first, I deploy second, positioning my DP out of sight behind trees and other terrain. He says, "I know you deployed him there just so I couldn't hit him." I say, "That's the point of deploying second, to react to how your opponent deploys." We go two turns with his Missile Squad not being able to see my DP. On turn three, since he still can't see him, he tries saying he had LOS, "I can see his face, his legs, his arms" I check. Absolutely no LOS. His GF confirms no LOS. So then he decides that because he's flying he can hit him. "Do you have TRUE line of sight?", I ask. "It shouldn't matter, he's flying."

Uhh....It does matter. You can't decide to completely ignore a rule just because it's not working in your favor. He stopped the whole game for 15 minutes to look up FAQS, ect on the matter. He was wrong and was pouting the whole game.

Another one that happened is I was shooting a squad of three marines, two were visible and one was out of sight. The order of closest models were: generic marine (out of sight), Champion, generic marine. It's an ap 2 weapon and he just says, 'well closest mode'l and takes the out of sight model. I tell him I have no LOS to him so it would be the Champion. then he takes the other generic marine instead. At this point I'm done with arguing and finish out the game, killed the champion a turn later either way.

Another big one is when a rule calls for randomizing. He always just says, "Why can't I choose?" In what way exactly, is that random?!

Sorry, rant over. I would like to hear any similar stories from everyone and how you dealt with it .Thank you!

I can still see this Daemon prince's face!!!11

I think that if one player is getting annoyed with the rules, having models killed off in vast numbers, etc it's best to just not take the game too seriously. The game has a random element anyway, more so when you bring things like D6 tables into it, so when I'm playing and things go badly for my opponent I usually just commiserate with them or try to stay good-humoured (NOT making fun of them, I hasten to add).

Example: I was playing a game with IG vs Orks. I scored a direct hit on my opponent's Warboss with a Manticore, taking out him and half a mob of Boyz at the same time. I was quick to say "bad luck" and point out how silly it is that the rules effectively let you use artillery as a sniper rifle.

Some people get in a huff when the game goes against them. At times like this I just try to make light of it and generally keep the tone friendly. I find if you're having a good chat during the game people care less about winning or losing. Also, to be fair to the bloke, TLOS is far from perfect. The amount of disagreement I've seen over that rule...

My biggest beef is when someone was 'helping' my girlfriend 'learn to play' and would keep trying to make her make bad decisions which would prevent her from winning the game or killing a unit.

Such as challenging her Warp Talon Sgt. then saying she should decline.. to which her squad could then not attack and wipe out the squad with ease.

Ended up having to have a polite word with him not to be a Dishface and his friend ended up taking over the lesson so she could finish of tabling him...

Luckily I have not yet run into someone who gets frustrated at the rules, but I do run into people who start a game then walk off to talk to people leaving us at turn one for 2 hours.

TLOS does actually suck for FMC's that are just base-mounted models with wings. I agree with him that realistically, he should have been able to see the model.

However, as long as there is no rule stating something along the lines of "any swooping or zooming model can be seen if the model can draw line or sight to the flyer or any point above him" (which I am totally in favour of), your opponent was just being a donkey-cave.

 Fezman wrote:
I think that if one player is getting annoyed with the rules, having models killed off in vast numbers, etc it's best to just not take the game too seriously. The game has a random element anyway, more so when you bring things like D6 tables into it, so when I'm playing and things go badly for my opponent I usually just commiserate with them or try to stay good-humoured (NOT making fun of them, I hasten to add).

Example: I was playing a game with IG vs Orks. I scored a direct hit on my opponent's Warboss with a Manticore, taking out him and half a mob of Boyz at the same time. I was quick to say "bad luck" and point out how silly it is that the rules effectively let you use artillery as a sniper rifle.

Some people get in a huff when the game goes against them. At times like this I just try to make light of it and generally keep the tone friendly. I find if you're having a good chat during the game people care less about winning or losing. Also, to be fair to the bloke, TLOS is far from perfect. The amount of disagreement I've seen over that rule...

Yeah, being friendly and conversational really does well for the game, especially if your opponent seems tense or maybe taking the game too seriously. Talk him down out of that attitude with some jokes and a generally cheery attitude

There are some pouty players in my area, usually younger folk, late teens and early 20s. I learned to never pity them though, every time I have it has slapped me in the face.

I took pity on a GK player after my ghost ark caused 5 wounds to his TDA unit with his lord upfront, and he failed LOS, then 3 ++2 saves. Dude looked like he was going to cry, so I let him re-roll a single LoS roll and keep his warlord alive.

Next thing I know he is all super pumped and rubbing it in my face when his dreadnought kills one of my ghost arks.

There are some other younger folk who don't measure quite right. They will not measure, or move their modes and extra inch or two. I really hate being that guy who says "wait, re-measure that" but I don't want to have the game ruined because some kid has a hard on for winning.

There are a lot of poor losers out there.

We, as a community, should help them by giving them practice at losing. Don't let off the gas when you're crushing them. That would be a disservice.

It's the only way!

There's a lot of built-up hate for my age group and below (I'm 19). A lot of the older players won't give me games because they assume I'll be one of those WAAC guys, or a sore loser.

I'm actually the opposite, I use fluffy lists and have more fun when I'm losing (I think I'm slightly masochistic). It's just a shame they won't give me a chance.

 Otto Weston wrote:
There's a lot of built-up hate for my age group and below (I'm 19). A lot of the older players won't give me games because they assume I'll be one of those WAAC guys, or a sore loser.

I'm actually the opposite, I use fluffy lists and have more fun when I'm losing (I think I'm slightly masochistic). It's just a shame they won't give me a chance.

Maybe I've been spoiled but I have a hard time seeing this. I'm also 19.

How do you usually approach them? Do you smile? Do you introduce yourself? Show them your army? Perhaps you are not being friendly enough?

I always am polite and try to be nice, in pickup games I dont try to argue rules, i generally ask for clarification or someone to show me the rule in question if i am unfamiliar with it. I do agree fmcs should not be subject to true los but a pickup game is not the place to argue it, unless you clarify or houserule at the beginning of the game.
I personally do not blame him for being angry as you did hide a flying creature behind a tree, which is one of the things that fills me with rage.
I actually had a guy try to argue me that you could assault using rapid fire weapons if you shot one shot at half range. People just argue stupid stuff.

In my experience the younger crowd is actually much more congenial. Played against a teenager playing Necrons at my lgs, very friendly kid.

Play against the thirty year old Dark Eldar player and you'll hear him complain all day long, even when he's winning "ugh, this hasn't been a good game, I lost on turn one when you killed my venom..."

Play against the fifty year old Nid player, and you should make early dinner plans because he'll start packing up his models by turn 3 "I'm done, I don't want to play anymore, this is dumb, I'm done!" Throws a hissy fit like a toddler.

 changerofways wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
There's a lot of built-up hate for my age group and below (I'm 19). A lot of the older players won't give me games because they assume I'll be one of those WAAC guys, or a sore loser.

I'm actually the opposite, I use fluffy lists and have more fun when I'm losing (I think I'm slightly masochistic). It's just a shame they won't give me a chance.

Maybe I've been spoiled but I have a hard time seeing this. I'm also 19.

How do you usually approach them? Do you smile? Do you introduce yourself? Show them your army? Perhaps you are not being friendly enough?

If I haven't arranged a match with a friend, I generally try waiting for anyone interested in a pickup game. I do smile and introduce myself, but most of the time they'll just brush me off. If I get through the introductions, I'd ask if they're interested in a match and here's my list etc. Generally they'll not even look at the list and just say something along the lines of, "I'll wait for X" or "I'm not interested in a game atm" or some other excuse. A couple of them immediately went into a game with one of the older players in the store after that. I do believe I am friendly, but maybe they've just already formed their cliques and aren't interested in new blood. Perhaps it's my meta.

If you haven't had the same experience, you're lucky

Yeah, I always feel bad when I trounce my girlfriend or some of my other friends so badly, but I try to be a good sport about it and laugh and joke and such. It's really all you can do. Unfortunately though, I've had some BAD games, where the universe tells me "No, you're not going to win". And I can't help but get rather upset at it. It happens.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
I always am polite and try to be nice, in pickup games I dont try to argue rules, i generally ask for clarification or someone to show me the rule in question if i am unfamiliar with it. I do agree fmcs should not be subject to true los but a pickup game is not the place to argue it, unless you clarify or houserule at the beginning of the game.
I personally do not blame him for being angry as you did hide a flying creature behind a tree, which is one of the things that fills me with rage.
I actually had a guy try to argue me that you could assault using rapid fire weapons if you shot one shot at half range. People just argue stupid stuff.

I agree to an extent, FMC should not be subject to to TLOS, buuuut they are, and I will use the rule as it is. When they change it, I will take the change without complaint. As to placing him out of LOS purposefully, this is, at least partly, a strategy game. The other being a game of chance. If you get upset at me for using the advantages of second deployment, then so be it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheSilo wrote:
In my experience the younger crowd is actually much more congenial. Played against a teenager playing Necrons at my lgs, very friendly kid.

Play against the thirty year old Dark Eldar player and you'll hear him complain all day long, even when he's winning "ugh, this hasn't been a good game, I lost on turn one when you killed my venom..."

Play against the fifty year old Nid player, and you should make early dinner plans because he'll start packing up his models by turn 3 "I'm done, I don't want to play anymore, this is dumb, I'm done!" Throws a hissy fit like a toddler.

No way... Thats ridiculous. As it stands, I only play in a close group of friends, all around my age. We have a LGS, but my schedule is pretty packed I don't really have time to get out there. For the veteran players to be the whiners....is just odd, to me


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Yeah, I always feel bad when I trounce my girlfriend or some of my other friends so badly, but I try to be a good sport about it and laugh and joke and such. It's really all you can do. Unfortunately though, I've had some BAD games, where the universe tells me "No, you're not going to win". And I can't help but get rather upset at it. It happens.

Yeah Those games do suck. I always try to look at things from a campaign perspective though, being a really fluffy player. The current list I've been trying is a Vanguard/Chaplain list deep striking while my 15 man strong foot sloggers advance across the board with a rhino for cover. It's really fun to see the Black Tide do it's thing. Had many really close games with Templars against Plague Marines. My last game, my big squad killed three Helbrutes, while my Chaplain/vanguard squad held up a unit of Plague marines. They took heavy casualties before combat because the Lord had the Burning Brand of Skallathrax(sp) but that chaplain kicked major butt, usually taking out 1-2 plague marines each combat

 TheSilo wrote:
In my experience the younger crowd is actually much more congenial. Played against a teenager playing Necrons at my lgs, very friendly kid.

Play against the thirty year old Dark Eldar player and you'll hear him complain all day long, even when he's winning "ugh, this hasn't been a good game, I lost on turn one when you killed my venom..."

Play against the fifty year old Nid player, and you should make early dinner plans because he'll start packing up his models by turn 3 "I'm done, I don't want to play anymore, this is dumb, I'm done!" Throws a hissy fit like a toddler.

Understandable. They just haven't realised they're still playing a game designed for teenagers. No wonder they don't enjoy it.

I used to be a bit pouty. I try not to be anymore. One thing that helped was switching the games I play. I actually don't mind losing in a wargame if it's well balanced and defeat is down to my own lamentably stupid tactical decisions - one or two of my best games have been like that - but I do (or should I say, did) if it's down to the fact I didn't min-max in a broken, power-creeping game. Having no chance of control or even reaction, between two supposedly equally-pointed forces, in situations that go way beyond 'oops I had a duff roll that time haha', is not a pile of fun.

There's nothing I hate more than a bad sport. Some days your dice won't like you, the cards won't go your way, or your opponent will just bring a better list/play a better game than you. If you can't handle that maturely and have fun anyway, pick a different hobby. In our leagues we have a box to check on the score card for sportsmanship. It was made pretty clear from the beginning that if your opponent doesn't check that box and has a good reason why they didnt, you will most likely be asked not to come back.

I don't like pick up games. I like to play for something. I like playing in the weekly league games for that reason. I am ultra competitive. I was having a hard time finding games b/c I never lost even when I switched from GKs to Necrons then to Nids.

I learned to play more fluffy lists and to lose now then. No one likes never being able to win a game. Now I have less problems finding a game.

Im guilty of this from time to time, but only when my dice just flat out abandon me. Like one game against grey knights where i moved a squad of assault marines out of terrain, failed 5 dangerous terrain tests, failed all 5 armor saves, and all 5 feel no pain saves. Later on i charged a dreadknight with 10 assault marines, a sanguinary priest and a reclusiarch with a fist. I did all of 2 wounds, which he saved, and then the reclusiarch wiffed, even with his rerolls. Even though those kind of games are few and far between, its hard to keep from getting outwardly frustrated, which is why it needs to be a constant work in progress.

One way to keep players from getting down about the game is to put an emphasis on the abnormally good things going there way. Example: i was playing my blood angels at a tournament recently, playing for 2nd place vs tau. I had lost less than half of my army, and was just cleaning up the game and going for full points by tabling him. Needless to say, he was pretty discouraged. I charged 5 assault marines and a priest into his broadsides, which proceeded to beat my ass for 5 assault phases before i finally broke them with only the priest and 1 marine left. I brought up that who knew broadsides could fight, with 2 str5 attacks base, and we ended up joking around about how theyre actually an assault unit. He cheered up a good bit after that.

Everyone can sometimes get pouty. When a game ceases to be fun for whatever reason, people tend to turn off, especially if it's something that's outside of their control. I've seen even the most cheerful players sometimes turn off midway through a bad game.

It happens.

I got pouty once, just to see what it was like.

I'm guilty of being pouty from time to time, especially when the dice fail me in spectacular fashion (like rolling 5x 1's on a 5 man unit with 2+ armor saves).
That said, and this sounds kind of lame, I pull myself out of it by focusing on "forging the narrative".
In friendly games, do things that would be awesome to pull off, or even "fluffy". Have fun with it.

In competitive games, you've got to overcome and still make it an interesting fight. Focus on denying the opponent what you can or trying to get points whereever you can.

I encourage some younger/newer players to do the same: help them understand the things that are fun about doing things within the game, and not to focus too much on the frustrating aspects of it all.

Templar_Grist wrote:


Yeah Those games do suck. I always try to look at things from a campaign perspective though, being a really fluffy player. The current list I've been trying is a Vanguard/Chaplain list deep striking while my 15 man strong foot sloggers advance across the board with a rhino for cover. It's really fun to see the Black Tide do it's thing. Had many really close games with Templars against Plague Marines. My last game, my big squad killed three Helbrutes, while my Chaplain/vanguard squad held up a unit of Plague marines. They took heavy casualties before combat because the Lord had the Burning Brand of Skallathrax(sp) but that chaplain kicked major butt, usually taking out 1-2 plague marines each combat

I mean, yeah I guess. It's just hard to see it from that perspective right in the middle of a losing battle. It really just grinds my gears when I bring a very good list, play it correctly, go after all the right targets, but nothing goes the way you plan, and there's nothing you could've done to change it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 House Griffith wrote:
I'm guilty of being pouty from time to time, especially when the dice fail me in spectacular fashion (like rolling 5x 1's on a 5 man unit with 2+ armor saves).

Lol, I felt bad for girlfriend during this one game. My Triarch Stalker (Necron Spider-walker thing), was locked in combat with a plague marine and her Sorcerer. Niether of them had anything that could hurt it, but she just kept in combat because the sorcerer had a 2+ save. I did two wounds one round, and recommended she put it on the Sorcerer, since he has the greatest chance to ignore them. I was honestly, trying to help, and she took my advice, but rolled snake eyes. So, there goes her Warlord. She was rather upset at me afterwards. Lol.

The only pouty player I've played with so far is me, and my concept of pouty is being pissed at my dice when two railguns fail to do anything to a vindicator. Still finish and complete game unless schedule interrupts it. I never get mad at players, but I have been tempted to melt dice before. At least I have my blessed scatter dice.

Ventiscogreen wrote:
The only pouty player I've played with so far is me, and my concept of pouty is being pissed at my dice when two railguns fail to do anything to a vindicator. Still finish and complete game unless schedule interrupts it. I never get mad at players, but I have been tempted to melt dice before. At least I have my blessed scatter dice.

Yeah man, one game I was so tempted after my Tervigon failed 5 out of 9 armor saves in one go. And another game when my Immortals made like, 2 out of 8 armor saves, and it was like that the rest of the game. Grrrr, dice!!!!

I used to play with a younger friend fairly frequently. He would often get a bit pouty if things didn't go his way.

Then I showed him the article that Jervis wrote in White Dwarf about getting 'The Face'.

Reading that article turned him around completely and every game we played after that - win or lose - was far more enjoyable to both.

Wish I still had that article...anyone able to find a link in the magic of the internet?

OP described over half of the people I've ever played 40k with.