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Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






Good evening Dakkites

I hope you're well, I have some games and tournaments lined up on the horizon and I wanted to know if you guys thought this was a feasble list. I think I might be being a bit greedy and trying to have all my toys in one list which might cause me some problems. Let me know what you think and what you would improve

Without further ado;

Lords
Ka'laas Plague father;

- Daemon Prince, Mark of Nurgle, Level 4 (Lore of Nurgle), Chaos Armour, Daemonic Flight, Sword of Striking, Dragonbane Gem, Charmed Shield, Scaled Skin, Chaos Familiar, Soul Feeder, Acid Incor (525)

Heroes
Wintertooth;

- Throgg, King of Trolls (195)

Gabriel, The Chosen One;
- Exalted Hero, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Battle Standard Bearer, Great weapon, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Third eye of Tzeentch (241)

Core
Flesh wall;

- Trolls (17) (595)

Hounds;
- Chaos Warhounds (5) (30) x 4 (120)

Special
Soul Reapers;

- Chaos Knights (10), Mark of Nurgle, Lances, Musician, Standard w/ Standard of Swiftness (475)

Rare
The Disciples of Khorne;

- 3 Skullcrushers, Mark of Khorne, Enscrolled weapons, Musician, Banner w/ Standard of Disipline (269)

2400/2400

So the idea is that with the Regen, WS debuff and other nurgle spells I can tip the scales EVEN more in my 3 combat units favour. I have a durable BSB to help with re-rolls but also to manage warmachines or generally being versitile. The DP is a tank and is, I know, a HORRIBLY broken build. The knights I wanted to try out over double skull crushers and 10 seem lethal, then I have filled with dogs for re-directors and flank protectors.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 16:29:01


Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight





Las Vegas

I frigging love the names. Adds so much delicious flavor.

I would swap the lances on the knights for ensorcelled weapons. You want to get them into combat quick and keep them there. This is more of a grindy-ish list than a blitz attack force, which is fine, but that just means you won't get the benefit of lances as much as you'd like. If you really need high strength attacks, Gabriel is going to be your troubleshooter there, and his mobility is going to mean he can get exactly where he needs to be while the knights are a little more unwieldy.

Other than that... I'm a fan.

   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






Hey Evertras! I was hoping a warrior loyalist would spot this post The names make it fun for me.

I was thinking about that as well but I wanted to have a unit that could handle the BOTWD...because if they don't have lances then its just the dogs that can hurt that unit aha! unless my trolls hit with their weapons but their not very good at that! Or lances on the skullcrushers? Its bad that there is a magic item that affects my army composition but with High Elves being big on the tournament scene and that being a staple for the HE list I need some non-magical attacks.

I wanted to go Slaanesh, but the magic lore Nurgle complimented it so much I couldn't resist.


Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight





Las Vegas

Wouldn't the trolls work against the banner? I can definitely see the concern, but I think you might be overcompensating for it. (Edit) I'm dumb and can't read. But honestly, I don't think a unit of knights on the charge are going to break the HE unit off the bat. I'm still leaning towards trolls being the answer, but might take some actual testing as I have little personal experience running them.

And yes, it's hard to say no to Nurgle. I love that lore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 17:29:34


   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






The vomit, which is lets face it is the reason you bring them, is magical, so I'm relying on weapon skill 3 attacks otherwise, I'm screwed.

If I can de-buff the Ws with nurgle trolls will dominate in combat

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight





Las Vegas

therealsuperman wrote:
The vomit, which is lets face it is the reason you bring them, is magical, so I'm relying on weapon skill 3 attacks otherwise, I'm screwed.

If I can de-buff the Ws with nurgle trolls will dominate in combat


Ehhhh... get out some dice and give it a try. I honestly don't know if you're right or not. If not, then I suppose the Nurgle knights will be lanced-out. If nothing else they'll make an excellent tarpit if they get stuck in prolonged combat.

   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy




United States

Nice list man.. I run something very similar at 2500pts and love it.

I have a few more chariots where you have more knights and trolls, but it's about the same.

The fluffy names are great too. Good luck at the tournaments.

--=Fantasy=--
High Elves: 6000 pts
Warriors of Chaos: 7000 pts
--=40k=--
5000 pts 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




wolverhampton

I think you'd do a lot better with core chariots but kudos for going with the trolls it will look awesome and you'll still do well.

mean green fightin machine 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






After a test match last night I realised the knights were very underwhelming, and their damage output is about the same as skullscrushers for almost double the cost. So the next list I will try;

Lords
Ka'laas Plague father;

- Daemon Prince, Mark of Nurgle, Level 4 (Lore of Nurgle), Chaos Armour, Daemonic Flight, Sword of Striking, Dragonbane Gem, Charmed Shield, Scaled Skin, Chaos Familiar, Soul Feeder, Acid Incor (525)

Heroes
Wintertooth;

- Throgg, King of Trolls (195)

Gabriel, The Chosen One;
- Exalted Hero, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Battle Standard Bearer, Great weapon, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Third eye of Tzeentch (241)

Core
Flesh wall;

- Trolls (17) (595)

Hounds;
- Chaos Warhounds (5) (30) x 3 (90)

Special
Winged Fury;

- Chimera, Regenerating Flesh (245)

Rare
The Disciples of Khorne;

- 3 Skullcrushers, Mark of Khorne, Enscrolled weapons, Musician, Banner (254)
- 3 Skullcrushers, Mark of Khorne, Lances, Musician, Banner w/ Standard of Eternal Flame (261)

2400/2400

Any thoughts?

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




wolverhampton

Normally I'd say run chimeras in pairs or not at all, but keep him near your battle standard bearer and he will be fine use them in pairs and support your Demon prince


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Get ensorcelled weapons on the other skull crushers if you can

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/06 12:32:19


mean green fightin machine 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






I couldn't agree more, normally I'm advising 2 or none but I figured with the other 2 flyers he would be safe if I played those 3 aggressively.

I intentionality kept them with Lances because I was under the impression that if you had magic weapons you wouldn't benefit from the flame banner? If that's wrong I'll change them back to Enscrolled weapons

Good synergy? Where do you sit on the knights v skullscrushers debate?

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in za
Auspicious Skink Shaman






what is this lists' weaknesses?

vs lizardmen?

Ogre Kingdoms: 5 500 pts

Lizardmen: 6 000 pts

Undead Legions: 20 000 pts 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






Idk, I guess mass of fire with poision will eventually kill off my flyers, anything with flaming attacks will ruin the trolls then use slann ability to trade spells for metal, get the signature off on the skullscrushers? But I don't honestly know mate I've tested it against WE and Empire and it does alright, got some daemon and high elf games lined up aswell so I'll let you know

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in za
Auspicious Skink Shaman






I've played similar lists in the past. It's hard as nails and a pain to deal with.


Ogre Kingdoms: 5 500 pts

Lizardmen: 6 000 pts

Undead Legions: 20 000 pts 
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy




United States

Honestly, I love Chaos Knights... they're just cool. But comparing them to Skullcrushers point for point is silly. The Skullcrushers are far superior, in nearly any situation if they can make their Berserk Rage LD tests.

There are many many reasons, but here are a few:

If 1 knight dies, there goes 3 attacks. If a Skullcrusher takes a wound.. well it stays the same. You'd have to find a way to remove a model to effect the unit any.

A similarly costed unit of 5 Chaos Knights of Khorne with Ensorcelled weapons (10 pts less than Skullcrushers) puts out nearly the same amount of attacks (if you count Stomp). but the horses are only S4 opposed to the Juggy WS 5 S5 (S6 on the charge!) which really tips it in the favor of Skullcrushers.

That's why they're great. Monsterous Cav as a whole are usually better than their horse riding counterparts.

For WoC, Skullcrushers FTW!

Quick sidenote, since Ensorc Weapons count as magic weapons, the Skullcrushers would not benefit from the Flame Banner. At the same time, there isn't anything wrong with giving them Lances. Face the High Elves and you'll wish you did anyway!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/06 17:16:58


--=Fantasy=--
High Elves: 6000 pts
Warriors of Chaos: 7000 pts
--=40k=--
5000 pts 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






Thanks buddy! I've always been in the same mindset with Skullcrushers > Knights, but I wanted to try them and they were just sub-par... which is horrible because they're just nice models and fluff.

The skullcrushers are better and I'll keep Enscrolled on one and Lances on the other for the damage output AND the flame banner.

What about the rest of the list composition?

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

Where does it say an attack cannot be magical AND flaming? The banner just says that it makes their attacks flaming so they will become flaming AND magical because one does not override the other. An attack can be flaming and magical look at fireball.

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight





Las Vegas

therealsuperman wrote:
Thanks buddy! I've always been in the same mindset with Skullcrushers > Knights, but I wanted to try them and they were just sub-par... which is horrible because they're just nice models and fluff.

The skullcrushers are better and I'll keep Enscrolled on one and Lances on the other for the damage output AND the flame banner.

What about the rest of the list composition?


You might have to think of them a bit differently than Skullcrushers. Skullcrushers are blitzkrieg shock troops. Knights (of the not Khorne variety) are more durable, but less killy. Knights of Nurgle are fantastic at holding up just about anything, and with M7 they're going to have an easy time of getting to whatever it is they want to hold up. Skullcrushers are a little easier to kill in close combat. Not to say that they're EASY, by any means, but everything's relative. Plus the knights are a lot easier to reliably position, whereas the Skullcrushers can be frenzy baited and their must-pursue/overrun can be abused by a smart opponent.

Still, I certainly wouldn't argue if you just want to go double Skullcrushers. Just remember that flaming banner = magical attacks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/06 20:34:32


   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

 Evertras wrote:
therealsuperman wrote:
Thanks buddy! I've always been in the same mindset with Skullcrushers > Knights, but I wanted to try them and they were just sub-par... which is horrible because they're just nice models and fluff.

The skullcrushers are better and I'll keep Enscrolled on one and Lances on the other for the damage output AND the flame banner.

What about the rest of the list composition?


You might have to think of them a bit differently than Skullcrushers. Skullcrushers are blitzkrieg shock troops. Knights (of the not Khorne variety) are more durable, but less killy. Knights of Nurgle are fantastic at holding up just about anything, and with M7 they're going to have an easy time of getting to whatever it is they want to hold up. Skullcrushers are a little easier to kill in close combat. Not to say that they're EASY, by any means, but everything's relative. Plus the knights are a lot easier to reliably position, whereas the Skullcrushers can be frenzy baited and their must-pursue/overrun can be abused by a smart opponent.

Still, I certainly wouldn't argue if you just want to go double Skullcrushers. Just remember that flaming banner = magical attacks.


Flaming attacks are NOT magical unless specifically stated as such or coming from a spell. Just having flaming attacks doesnt =magical attacks

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight





Las Vegas

 namiel wrote:
Flaming attacks are NOT magical unless specifically stated as such or coming from a spell. Just having flaming attacks doesnt =magical attacks


Huh. Looked into a bit more as well and you are correct. For some reason it was in my head that magic banner = magic attacks. I stand corrected.

   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






But they still need to have lances because I think like poision you wont get the benefit if you have a magical weapon (which they do because of the enscrolled weapons?) and B) BoTWD which would wreck my face because I would rely on the Trolls in CC not the vom's. Which at WS3 isnt ideal

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

therealsuperman wrote:
But they still need to have lances because I think like poision you wont get the benefit if you have a magical weapon (which they do because of the enscrolled weapons?) and B) BoTWD which would wreck my face because I would rely on the Trolls in CC not the vom's. Which at WS3 isnt ideal


You should get the benifit. You can have attacks that are magical, flaming, or magical and flaming. Magical and flaming attacks are seperate things but do not override eachother. It can be magical and flaming at the same time. You will get the benifits from both.

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






Fantastic, that's cleared it up, but TBH I still think I should run one unit with lances otherwise my magical attacks are everywhere and after the last tournament I went too were 50% of the armies were high elves I don't want to get stuck avoiding one 30 man unit of white lions which you know FULL WELL has the banner of bs in it along with the wizard who is now treating miscasts as if they were hiccups, a slight annoyance!

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

therealsuperman wrote:
Fantastic, that's cleared it up, but TBH I still think I should run one unit with lances otherwise my magical attacks are everywhere and after the last tournament I went too were 50% of the armies were high elves I don't want to get stuck avoiding one 30 man unit of white lions which you know FULL WELL has the banner of bs in it along with the wizard who is now treating miscasts as if they were hiccups, a slight annoyance!


You hammer it with your trolls which you buff and get your grind on.

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






That would be the back up plan tbh, get my regen to 3+ (He wont have the regeneration banner because of the BoTWD), but most importantly get their WS - D3, this means it might even be hitting him on 3's.. then your right the grind is easy at that point, because actually there is nothing else in the WHF universe that has that same affect on magical attacks?... I probably will stick ES weapons on them now thinking about it!

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy




United States

The last paragraph under the Flaming Attacks special rule P69 of the Rulebook states:

"Unless otherwise stated, a model with this special rule has both Flaming shooting and close combat attacks (though any spells cast by the model are unaffected, as are any attacks made by magic weapons they may be wielding)."

Ensorcelled Weapons say "In addition, these are Magical Attacks."

Basically, they are: Weapons + Magic Attacks = Magic Weapons.

So they do not get the benefits from the Flame Banner. The horses would... even Juggys would. Just not the riders.

Daemons, on the other hand, do not have weapons that give magical attacks, they have just magical attacks. The flame banner in that case will work with Daemons (as far as I know,)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/06 23:42:07


--=Fantasy=--
High Elves: 6000 pts
Warriors of Chaos: 7000 pts
--=40k=--
5000 pts 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

 scorpio7777 wrote:
The last paragraph under the Flaming Attacks special rule P69 of the Rulebook states:

"Unless otherwise stated, a model with this special rule has both Flaming shooting and close combat attacks (though any spells cast by the model are unaffected, as are any attacks made by magic weapons they may be wielding)."

Ensorcelled Weapons say "In addition, these are Magical Attacks."

Basically, they are: Weapons + Magic Attacks = Magic Weapons.

So the do not get the benefits from the Flame Banner.

Daemons, on the other hand, do not have weapons that give magical attacks, they have just magical attacks. The flame banner in that case will work with Daemons (as far as I know,)


I believe they mean magic weapons that may be taken by characters. Thats how I interpret that.

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy




United States

The only reason I bring it up, is it's been discussed at great length on Libraium-Online in the WoC forums and it was pretty clear that it works this way.

Doesn't matter if characters have the Magic Weapons or Chaos Warriors, any model with a Magic Weapon counts for this rule.

--=Fantasy=--
High Elves: 6000 pts
Warriors of Chaos: 7000 pts
--=40k=--
5000 pts 
   
Made in gb
Powerful Chaos Warrior






I always thought there was a rule about magic weapons and flaming but I wouldn't know aha!

Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013


'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'

 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




wolverhampton

If it says they have magical attacks that doesn't necessarily mean that they are magic weapons. ( I know that sounds stupid).
My case in point is Tzeentch magic... causes warpflame but warpflame is not flaming.

So I reckon your ensorcelled blades can have flaming from the banner.

mean green fightin machine 
   
 
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