Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Warriors of Chaos

Lords (1050pts)
Archaon, The Everchosen, Level 2 (Lore of Death), Dorghar (650)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord, Level 4 (Lore of Metal), Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Armour of Destiny, Chaos Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch (400)

Heroes (246pts)
Exalted Hero, Mark of Tzeentch, Great Weapon, Battle Standard Bearer, Barded Daemonic Mount, Tailsman of Preservation (246)

Core (605pts)
Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle (125)
Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle (125)
Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle (125)
Marauder Horsemen (5), Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Throwing Axes, Musician, Standard (115)
Marauder Horsemen (5), Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Throwing Axes, Musician, Standard (115)

Special (0pts)

Rare (498pts)
Skullcrushers (3), Ensorcelled Weapons, Musicians, Standard (254)
Skullcrushers (3), Ensorcelled Weapons, Musicians, (244)


2399/2400

All the characters have a 2+ and 3++ ward, 5 Metal spells and 2 Death/Tzeentch spells, Core is Chariots and Chaff to get too 600 min, Khorne Horsemen? Double skullcrusher as well

EDIT Had The Everchosen's points wrong, had to loose the Scaled Skin (with barding he now has a 2+ all the time though) and Fiery Breath (shame, but cant be avioded), Light armour on horsemen, Skullcrushers magical standards, but the only one I wanted was flaming, but metal magic clears regeneration. Thoughts?

I'd drop the shield on the BSB and give the Daemonic Mount Barding, then he has a 1+ save all the time.

I'd go for Death on Archy, because Tzeentch is hit and miss until you get to a level 4.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Archaon is 650, not 560.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which you have already taken into account. And my phone calculator tells me this list is 2372, not 2382.

-1 Movement though?

Death it is!

I havent had a chance to practise the list yet

Yah, take death on Archaon, with his high Ld the death signature can help you destroying most of the monsters in the game due to the huge difference between the leaderships.

Also, I second the barding on the mount, losing 1M on cavalry isn't as bad as it sounds and getting that 1+ sv in close combat will be more helpful.

I'd also change the banner of swiftness on the juggys, the eternal flame one might work better again, going from 7M to 8M is good, but that banner is pretty expensive for that extra inch when you already have swiftstride.
The standard of discipline is good if you plan on being really far away from archaon, remember he has a bigger command aura radius and he has better ld than the standard.

I'd get musicians on the juggys with those points, you never know when that musician will help you untie a combat, or give you a free 180 turn for those frenzy overruns

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yah, take death on Archaon, with his high Ld the death signature can help you destroying most of the monsters in the game due to the huge difference between the leaderships.

Also, I second the barding on the mount, losing 1M on cavalry isn't as bad as it sounds and getting that 1+ sv in close combat will be more helpful.

I'd also change the banner of swiftness on the juggys, the eternal flame one might work better again, going from 7M to 8M is good, but that banner is pretty expensive for that extra inch when you already have swiftstride.
The standard of discipline is good if you plan on being really far away from archaon, remember he has a bigger command aura radius and he has better ld than the standard.

I'd get musicians on the juggys with those points, you never know when that musician will help you untie a combat, or give you a free 180 turn for those frenzy overruns

Flaming banner on the juggernauts is useless. Can't have flaming attacks and magical attacks.

Ensorcelled weapons give you magic attacks, and juggernauts are magical.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Flaming banner on the juggernauts is useless. Can't have flaming attacks and magical attacks.

Ensorcelled weapons give you magic attacks, and juggernauts are magical.

Pretty sure it's can't have flaming + magic weapons - it's why plaguebearers can't be lit on fire but plague drones can. The juggers' hooves can be flaming if you want

Speaking of your skullcrushers: no musicians??? Archaon demands that they rock! And also break ties in the case of dice fail. And also swift reform for maximum carnage. And also rally in the extremely disheartening case that they flee.

- Salvage

Lord Yayula - Death for the leadership 10 makes so much sence when you put it like that.
-Barding it is, or should I put him on a disc? He is only T4 W2 then but more mobile? but the same issue with armour save comes up
- I seem to remember something about needing to put lances on the unit I want to have flaming, because then the riders get it (because non magical) and then the regeneration is gone before the jugs fight.
Thedarkavenger - The banners I will swap if someone confirms the flaming/magical issue, I seem to recall hearing it before but cant find it in the book.
Boss Salvage - I completely forgot to add them!, should I drop the banners all together then? Because I remember you saying elsewhere that I am giving away a 78pt model if I break from combat?. I always love your comments Boss Salvage and enjoy seeing you comment on other peoples lists aswell! Just my bit of flirting for the day

Boss is correct, magic weapons cant benefit from the flaming attacks from the standard but the juggers can. The issue is half the attacks are at int5 which arent flaming, the rest are int2 which are flaming (so is the stomp at ASL). So it only benefits half the attacks.

I do agree dont run standards on juggers, when you are running them in groups of 3 like you are you can never be under 25% for terms of rallying (if you are, then they are dead!) so if the one crusher surivies combat, runs and gets away (with swiftstride) he wont auto die due to being the standard (No champion in either unit so the standard will be last to die after the normal dude then musician). Then you will be rallying on your normal ld (well acutally plus 1 from musician as he will be last alive with no standard).

IT does depend on how you want to use them but in groups of 3 I would run musician ensorcelled and thats it, have them on the flanks or use as a anchor in the middle.

I would put a shield on the BSB as well, currently he is at 2+ armour save so against AP wood elves he is auto at 3+ armour and 3+ ward, giving him a shield just for shooting means he is at 2+ armour against str4 or str3 AP. I would also consider shields on the horsemen, possibly with javalins in place of axes because of range?.

 therealsuperman wrote:
Boss Salvage - I completely forgot to add them!, should I drop the banners all together then? Because I remember you saying elsewhere that I am giving away a 78pt model if I break from combat?. I always love your comments Boss Salvage and enjoy seeing you comment on other peoples lists aswell! Just my bit of flirting for the day

Awww thanks Supes Yea, not a fan of monstrous cav exploding because they're holding a flag, glad to see the music back in the list

- Salvage

MarkyMark - Loose standards, Get Shields, Get Light armour... Done

BossSavage *OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG PLAY IT COOL*..... yeah I'll probally drop the banners or whatever

Not sure on light armour, makes them lose fast cav.....

Markymark - Sorry mate, maent sheilds

 therealsuperman wrote:
Lord Yayula - Death for the leadership 10 makes so much sence when you put it like that.
-Barding it is, or should I put him on a disc? He is only T4 W2 then but more mobile? but the same issue with armour save comes up
- I seem to remember something about needing to put lances on the unit I want to have flaming, because then the riders get it (because non magical) and then the regeneration is gone before the jugs fight.

Very true on the flamming attacks i completely forgot about it and the ensorcelled weapons, as mentioned previously it only affects the juggers since the flamming attacks rules says "...any spells cast by the model are unaffected, as are any attacks made with magic weapons they might be wielding"), since the juggers aren't wielding magic weapons but their attacks are magical they have both magic and fire attacks. So yeah, maybe get another banner then?

On the BSB i like the daemonic mount better because of the +1W and the immunity to killing blows, also gives you a stomp and those extra S5 attacks from the mount which iirc are also magical will help against ethereal units.

On the Banner or no banner for the juggys, I personally have rarely seen them lose combat, probably just once or twice in all my games and yeah losing a full model was terrible, but usually that +1 helps you taking out the ranks from big units or punishing the losing side even further

How did you find your list Alex? any changes you would make or good as it is?. Was any of our advice useful?

MarkyMark: Loved it, 3 up ward almost never let me down, might try Chimera's instead of skullcrushers next time though

 therealsuperman wrote:
MarkyMark: Loved it, 3 up ward almost never let me down, might try Chimera's instead of skullcrushers next time though

No, don't. The list needs skullcrushers for it to work. Just look at the way that The Egg uses them. Push them ahead of the army, and take a charge. If they roll above average, they take 1-2 wounds and win. If they don't, they lose by 1-2 and allow you to countercharge.

MarkyMark wrote:

I do agree dont run standards on juggers, when you are running them in groups of 3 like you are you can never be under 25% for terms of rallying (if you are, then they are dead!)

Agree too

Okay, I was thinking about dropping the crushers for Hellcannons?

Lords (1050pts)
Archaon, The Everchosen, Level 2 (Lore of Death), Dorghar (650)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord, Level 4 (Lore of Metal), Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Armour of Destiny, Chaos Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch (400)

Heroes (246pts)
Exalted Hero, Mark of Tzeentch, Great Weapon, Battle Standard Bearer, Barded Daemonic Mount, Tailsman of Preservation (246)

Core (605pts)
Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle (125)
Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle (125)
Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle (125)
Marauder Horsemen (5), Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Throwing Axes, Musician, Standard (115)
Marauder Horsemen (5), Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Throwing Axes, Musician, Standard (115)

Special (0pts)

Rare (420pts)
Hellcannon (210)
Hellcannon (210)

with 79 points left.... or all the skullcrushers superiour to hellcannons? do they add more synergy

Are you actually shooting those hellcannons? I like HC as unbreakable, tough combat monsters - and used them to great extent in 7E as just that - but as actual artillery, well, experience shows that the easiest way to kill a hellcannon is let it misfire. As for being assault units, the new WoC book nerfed them down to M3 (right?), making them only impressively maniacal once their handlers are dead ...

My vote is still totally with the 'crushers. Not least because they give Archaon and his trusty banner bearer places to hang out (if not LOS! rolls ).

- Salvage

Boss Salvage - Yeah I think Skullcrushers do work better, I was just trying to test and see what other options I had with them. Hellcannons are slow and purposefull, its a shame their template is so bad :( Archaon can hide in the crushers due to MoK however the BSB is out in the lonely corner with unit joining

 therealsuperman wrote:
... however the BSB is out in the lonely corner with unit joining

Singing to himself, "I've got my three-up ward to keep me waaaaaaaaaarm"

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Are you actually shooting those hellcannons? I like HC as unbreakable, tough combat monsters - and used them to great extent in 7E as just that - but as actual artillery, well, experience shows that the easiest way to kill a hellcannon is let it misfire. As for being assault units, the new WoC book nerfed them down to M3 (right?), making them only impressively maniacal once their handlers are dead ...

My vote is still totally with the 'crushers. Not least because they give Archaon and his trusty banner bearer places to hang out (if not LOS! rolls ).

- Salvage

I actually run the double hell cannon corner hammer WoC list. They're really good shooting pieces.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 therealsuperman wrote:
Lord Yayula - Death for the leadership 10 makes so much sence when you put it like that.
-Barding it is, or should I put him on a disc? He is only T4 W2 then but more mobile? but the same issue with armour save comes up
- I seem to remember something about needing to put lances on the unit I want to have flaming, because then the riders get it (because non magical) and then the regeneration is gone before the jugs fight.

Very true on the flamming attacks i completely forgot about it and the ensorcelled weapons, as mentioned previously it only affects the juggers since the flamming attacks rules says "...any spells cast by the model are unaffected, as are any attacks made with magic weapons they might be wielding"), since the juggers aren't wielding magic weapons but their attacks are magical they have both magic and fire attacks. So yeah, maybe get another banner then?

This is wrong. Ensorcelled weapons make the jugger's attacks magical, but are not themselves "magic weapons." Only wargear with the "Magic Weapon" type prevents flaming/poison attacks.

For example, if a Chaos Lord mounted on a juggernaut were to join that unit wielding a great weapon both he and his mount would have flaming attacks (even though his mount has magic attacks, by virtue of being a demon). If he were to buy an ogre blade, however, his mount would have flaming (magical attacks) but he would not (magical attacks by virtue of wielding a "magic weapon"). Likewise if you put Hellebron in a unit of witch elves with the flaming standard, she attacks using a pair of Magic Weapons and therefore those attacks are not affected by the banner..

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Are you actually shooting those hellcannons? I like HC as unbreakable, tough combat monsters - and used them to great extent in 7E as just that - but as actual artillery, well, experience shows that the easiest way to kill a hellcannon is let it misfire. As for being assault units, the new WoC book nerfed them down to M3 (right?), making them only impressively maniacal once their handlers are dead ...

My vote is still totally with the 'crushers. Not least because they give Archaon and his trusty banner bearer places to hang out (if not LOS! rolls ).

- Salvage

I actually run the double hell cannon corner hammer WoC list. They're really good shooting pieces.

Are they better than crushers though?

 therealsuperman wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Are you actually shooting those hellcannons? I like HC as unbreakable, tough combat monsters - and used them to great extent in 7E as just that - but as actual artillery, well, experience shows that the easiest way to kill a hellcannon is let it misfire. As for being assault units, the new WoC book nerfed them down to M3 (right?), making them only impressively maniacal once their handlers are dead ...

My vote is still totally with the 'crushers. Not least because they give Archaon and his trusty banner bearer places to hang out (if not LOS! rolls ).

- Salvage

I actually run the double hell cannon corner hammer WoC list. They're really good shooting pieces.

Are they better than crushers though?

Depends on the list. In the corner list, skullcrushers are a massive waste. In a list that's hyper aggressive, the hellcannons are a waste.

So does the above list work well with the corner-cannons?

 therealsuperman wrote:
So does the above list work well with the corner-cannons?

o

No. Archaon is an aggressive tool.

You need magic that forces people to come to you. That means metal. And you need defensive troops. That means sword and board tzeentch bros.

And then it's chaff to slow the enemy down.

Warriors of Chaos

Lords (1050pts)
Archaon, The Everchosen, Level 2 (Lore of Death), Dorghar (650)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord, Level 4 (Lore of Metal), Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Armour of Destiny, Chaos Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch (400)

Heroes (441pts)
Exalted Hero, Mark of Tzeentch, Great Weapon, Battle Standard Bearer, Barded Daemonic Mount, Tailsman of Preservation (246)
Throgg (XXX)

Core (655pts)
Chaos Trolls (17) (595)
Chaos Hounds (5) (30)
Chaos Hounds (5) (30)

Special (0pts)

Rare (254pts)
Skullcrushers (3), Ensorcelled Weapons, Musicians, Standard (254)

2400/2400

This I like more... Chaff, Anvil, Agressive Characters and Skullcrushers.... I kind of wanted a Hellcannon instead of crushers however then I auto loose any Blood and Glory style games

I like it. Although personally I'd find points to give the sorcerer lord scaled skin. But they would have to come from the skullcrushers.


That is only because, 1+/3++ characters are like a weird form of chaos porn to me.

Welshhoppo: I know what you mean, in the original list he did have it so they all had the same fantastic saves but I had to have it removed due to points :(. I dont know how I feel about the skullcrushers if Im honest, it seems like an easy way for my opponant to get 250pts off of me...