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I try to be honest and polite when looking at newbe paint jobs. Normally it is easy, i compiment what they are doing right, and suggest things.

"Nice clean paint job, great start, now all you need is to kick it up to the next level, have you heard of washes?" That kind of stuff. People are happy to hear that. I get a lot of "Really? That's how you do that? I'll have to try that." Those kind of replies.

But sometime it is hard. The really really bad paintjobs with the super super proud painters. You have seen them. They primed them with gloss autobody paint thick enough to remove half the detail, then they took some cheep craft paint and blobed huge thick globs of color on the mini in aprozimatly the same location a detail is rummored to be. Then a quick super gloss clearcoat and their pride and joy is done. And they are as proud of this paint job as if they had just made the mars rover from scratch.

I end up just keeping my mouth shut and smiling at them. But I feel bad, I don't want to be like Simon form American Idol, but I don't want to lie to them.

How do you all aproach this? What has worked for you?

Be honest. Criticism should not be hard to take, it should be educational, it's the only way people learn.

'Good effort, but wrong technique- try x, it works better'

Only if they don't actually want to learn will there be a problem.

Being supportive means being honest, but in a way that builds people up rather than tearing them down. There are tons of threads where that sort of thing happens and the before/after photos of figures tell the whole story.

Apart from "do these make me look fat" questions, honesty shouldn't come that hard. An important point of order is to begin with a compliment. Even if it's total crap, find something positive to say before diving into the 'thin yer paint!" stuff.

That'll ease a lot of bruised feelings, usually.

If you can't say anything politely then don't say it t all. You got to keep in mind that their are kids that post here and people who are just starting out. Honest sound advice is good but, don't be rude about it. Esp. when there are people who can paint better than you. CC is always good but, keep in mind it's a hobby and last thing you want to do is discourage people from enjoying it.

Dont just say it sucks

Tell them Why it sucks and how it can be fixed

Though expect the same against your own work

Good criticism of what people did poorly while painting, for me, starts with complimenting what they did well.

"Hey man, the texturing on that armor is really coming together. You should try this trick to get the skintone looking really life-like". That kind of thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or what Beta. Said. I didn't read all the comments before I posted. My baaad.

 SQRT(-2) wrote:
I try to be honest and polite when looking at newbe paint jobs. Normally it is easy, i compiment what they are doing right, and suggest things.

"Nice clean paint job, great start, now all you need is to kick it up to the next level, have you heard of washes?" That kind of stuff. People are happy to hear that. I get a lot of "Really? That's how you do that? I'll have to try that." Those kind of replies.

But sometime it is hard. The really really bad paintjobs with the super super proud painters. You have seen them. They primed them with gloss autobody paint thick enough to remove half the detail, then they took some cheep craft paint and blobed huge thick globs of color on the mini in aprozimatly the same location a detail is rummored to be. Then a quick super gloss clearcoat and their pride and joy is done. And they are as proud of this paint job as if they had just made the mars rover from scratch.

I end up just keeping my mouth shut and smiling at them. But I feel bad, I don't want to be like Simon form American Idol, but I don't want to lie to them.

How do you all aproach this? What has worked for you?

Depends - are they asking for a critique...or just showing what they did? Most people can objectively look at two images and notice that one is different than the other. That is - they know it isn't great. Often though, the point isn't to be great, but to have done something. It shouldn't lessen it for them, it is just a different purpose.

A good friend of mine, who actually got me started in miniatures decades ago, has garnered the skill with a paint brush that I had after probably a week with working with miniatures...after 3+ decades of painting them. Every few months - he sends me pictures of his latest project, and they still are nothing all that impressive in terms of technical ability or application. That isn't what he is doing though, he is looking for something different. I don't bother to ask him about which washes he used or correct him in the proper use of weathering powders. Instead, I do ask him about what rule system he will use them with - and offer basing suggestions to make their use in play more flexible.

At the same time, another friend's wife just recently started painting miniatures - and every chance she gets, she wants a full on critique of her painting. When we have game nights, she spends as much time in my hobby room messing with the different paints and tools as she does in the game room playing.

Two different people, two different goals - both happily showing off their work (one for progress towards completion, one for progress towards perfection).

Good point, just getting them done is an accomplishment in it's self. I am ashamed I had not thought of that. That is why they are so proud. Makes a lot more since now. I can honestly say something like "Great job getting all those miniatures painted." If they say something about wishing they were better or whatnot I can always offer a few pointers then. But I'll wait until they breach the subject. They may not be looking for that kind of feedback.

Besides, a poorly painted army is ten times better than a naked one!

Criticism is fine just don't be a dick about it.

"It's gak, the paint is too thick "

Is a bad way to do it.

"You should thin your paints more so it isn't so thick because you are obscuring someone of the detail."

Is better.

I have to echo a lot of what is being said. I like to see ANY painted models, even if it really isn't that good. However I tend to reserve coaching to in person because then I can read the person. If they seem super excited about it then I'll bolster them up more and encourage them to paint on! I will do the typical, have you tried washing stuff? But even that is phrased less of an accusation and more of a revolutionary new thing that I just found out about that week too! Matching excitement let's you be able to give some suggestions like that and people will almost never take it personally. If the person is genuinely proud but wants my God honest opinion I will once again bolster but come at the constructive criticism a little more directly. Sometimes I will ask if it's okay if we sit down and I can help show them how to wash and highlight. It's pretty simple stuff, but if they trust you then it will help them get used to doing these things since you know what you are doing. I remember that when I painted my first mini I loved how it looked and was afraid anything I did would ruin it. But I tried a wash because everyone online was saying it was great, and sure enough! It was like beer goggles for a beginner paint job. I almost stopped there because wow, how could it get any better than this?!?!?! Then I tried highlighting, and holy cow I felt like I could have entered it into a Golden Demon and won. Of course it was nothing like that good, and I most likely never will be! But! The fact is I can relate to new painters, you love what you have done and are terrified that anything you do to it will muck it up. But if you have some painting status your helping can carry a lot of weight and help out. Just recently my buddy was airbrushing a FW Acheron Knight Titan. He made it yellow and it looked REALLY good! He texted me a picture and said he still needed to wash it. The first thing that flew to my mind was "Dear God don't wash it yellow!" The moral of the story being that chance are you can relate to these guys if you think back and it can help you realize how to critique them without any offense being taken. Chances are you know someone who has done exactly what they have or have done it yourself!

I like going the question route.

Him: This is great! I just made it!

You: Nice job. What kind of paint did you use?

Him: Testors Extra-Robust heavy-gloss black. It's my favorite.

You: That's an interesting idea. I've usually seen people go with Vallejo or GW paints, why do you like that better?

Him: Because it's cheap, and looks really nice. It's my favorite!

You: Interesting. Perhaps you could give GW paints a try next time? I'd love to know what you think of them side-by-side. Also, how did you do the shadows?

Him: I dipped them in minwax! I saw a tutorial on the internet.

You: Yeah, I think I heard about that awhile ago. How do you think it compares to the new washes?

That kind of thing, you know. People who are proud of things like to answer questions about their work. If you can make the questions as leading as possible, you can get them to try new stuff and think it was their idea all along.

All you have to do is imagine they are in front of you and you are holding it in your hand.

Or, if you prefer, pretend they are a real person and they painted a real miniature.

I read recently that people who really achieve greatness in their field applaud and support anyone who also enjoys the same thing. Almost all of the great painters I've seen on the internet will answer my posts and my really annoying IMs that I send them on social media. So its pretty true as far as I can tell.

 Ailaros wrote:
I like going the question route.

Him: This is great! I just made it!

You: Nice job. What kind of paint did you use?

Him: Testors Extra-Robust heavy-gloss black. It's my favorite.

You: That's an interesting idea. I've usually seen people go with Vallejo or GW paints, why do you like that better?

Him: Because it's cheap, and looks really nice. It's my favorite!

*Massive, MASSIVE cringe*

 Ailaros wrote:
I like going the question route.

Him: This is great! I just made it!

You: Nice job. What kind of paint did you use?

Him: Testors Extra-Robust heavy-gloss black. It's my favorite.

You: That's an interesting idea. I've usually seen people go with Vallejo or GW paints, why do you like that better?

Him: Because it's cheap, and looks really nice. It's my favorite!

You: Interesting. Perhaps you could give GW paints a try next time? I'd love to know what you think of them side-by-side. Also, how did you do the shadows?

Him: I dipped them in minwax! I saw a tutorial on the internet.

You: Yeah, I think I heard about that awhile ago. How do you think it compares to the new washes?

That kind of thing, you know. People who are proud of things like to answer questions about their work. If you can make the questions as leading as possible, you can get them to try new stuff and think it was their idea all along.

I've seen the kinds of proud posters the OP is talking about and also struggle with what to say and trying not to come off as a jerk, the questioning method you've suggested is really neat, skirting past any criticism and guiding them into making the leaps themselves, Cheers!

I am a proud painter myself, in retrospect I started out just like that. 15 years ago, I ran green, red and gold dark eldar and I got (hahaha christmas dark eldar) and at first it discouraged but I wanted to learn to be a better painter and now I compete in painting competitions and commission painting. But without the harsh criticism I would of continued painting christmas dark eldar.

I personally would approach each differently, but I would look, and if its a kid id put the kid gloves on and compliment and suggest. Someone that can take constructive criticism id ask if this was their first army, how they painted their army, and offer suggestions if they want to make their army POP on the table and have people ooooo and ahhhh. Id offer suggestions and instruction. Some people just want to field an army for the game and careless about the paint job and honestly you cant help them.

Some time I just ask if they prefer my honest opinion and straight up tell them, its hideous you removed all character and individuality of the model, walk me through your process of painting your model. At that point I give pointers, examples, and ive even given instruction. I have been thanked more times then shunned.

But like I said, approach each instance individually.

I learnt alot more from people explaining what I could do to improve not just saying what it needs in one line.
Ie like suggesting which wash tone will bring out gold, or what colours complemt better.

Yes give somthing but be useful and provide help as well as that model looks flat. Offer a way of improving the situation if you can

Here an example, people say dont use the cheap 59 cent paints from the craft store. But I took a project to see if there was a huge difference.

This a model I havent fully completed, all hand brushed I know its not the best paint job, but to paint an entire army way above tabletop standard for cheap. I can now show someone and tell someone how I achieved the look with out a drop of GW or Vallejo paint.

I'm honest and try to be supportive, but if I feel I can't make it sound supportive enough I'll try to not really comment on it.

I only use vallejo, reaper, PP or citadel if I need a specific color and don't want to mix it from scratch each time.

Agree with many of the comments here that advocate both a polite and constructive approach to feedback.

Lacking tact when giving your opinion just shows that you have poor social/communication skills, but not suggesting areas for improvement when the painting is poor is misleading and, obviously, bad for the painter in the long run.

Yeah, not everybody even wants critique, much less criticism. They just want you to be as excited in what they did as they are. It's not really hard to tell.

In fact, you could probably assume everybody showing off a mini is just showing it off, and you'd probably be okay. People that want critique know how to get it.

I'm definitly not in the market for a lot of criticism in my painting. I've been at it for pushing 15 years, I've gotten very quick and competent, and I really don't care to learn new techniques. If I want feedback, I'll generally ask a very specific question.

Also, for the specific example of a novice painter who has just globbed a model in paint, you need to think that this is a novice painter. They don't want or need the level of criticism of an experienced painter. A single point of suggestion might be enough.

"Hey, that's cool. You might try applying a lighter coat on the next miniature, as it will really keep the details looking sharp."

Then just move on to something else. If they ask for more information, then you can give it, but don't go over their experience level.


Also, it's worth asking people what they think of their own miniatures. Some of my friends like a gloss coat on their miniatures, because they like the way it looks. One of my friends paints really harsh (but neat and careful) highlights, because he likes the way it makes his army look across the tabletop. If you can steer a novice painter into how to make his models look more like he wants them to look, it will make him happier.

Depends - are they asking for a critique...or just showing what they did?

That's the bit I have trouble with, a lot of the time. Unless I can easily tell, it mostly results in a nod, a smile, and 'oh yeah... that looks great.' Just before I urgently have to go somewhere else.

 Shinoden wrote:
Here an example, people say dont use the cheap 59 cent paints from the craft store. But I took a project to see if there was a huge difference.

This a model I havent fully completed, all hand brushed I know its not the best paint job, but to paint an entire army way above tabletop standard for cheap. I can now show someone and tell someone how I achieved the look with out a drop of GW or Vallejo paint.

Whats the head from ?

On topic:

I think you just need to be constructive in your comments. Seen some people obviously wanting to get better and others obviously happy with their inability and the complete regard for painting.

But I guess a difference between a newbie/novice and someone who thinks they are the gak but really are not might not be clear from their "post" and that's what the OP is getting at.
The way I see, if someone is sating they are the gak at something and clearly are not, I dont see why they cant be brought down a peg or two for their own good... Arrogance has no place in the world (unless you are an Eldar in which case you are better then everyone else) however ignorance is a different mater entirely.

Tough to say. Posting on a paint forum, go with your usual. IRL, don't say gak unless they ask you for critique. I have had several people come up mid game (I'm not the greatest painter, but I like to think I can do TT standard) and begin critiquing my work. Unless the person asks for your opinion, I would just say "not bad" and carry on.

There's also no strict dualism between being polite and being honest. There are levels of behavior between "dropping truth bombs" and lying.

There's nothing wrong with responding with a vague "that's pretty cool" if you cannot find anything about the mini that you like at all.

You don't have to lie, but you also don't have to tell the truth unless asked directly.

I don't understand the problem with truth bombs. Don't be insulting about it, but if someones model looks terribad, telling them "pretty cool" certainly isn't helping them. Hell, I don't even do that with 5 year olds. Usually, if someone new to the hobby comes showing you his new shiny model, he's doing it the same way an apprentice or a child does with the one teaching them. Applaud their effort, and tell them what the next step is to improve.

emmagine wrote:
I don't understand the problem with truth bombs. Don't be insulting about it, but if someones model looks terribad, telling them "pretty cool" certainly isn't helping them. Hell, I don't even do that with 5 year olds. Usually, if someone new to the hobby comes showing you his new shiny model, he's doing it the same way an apprentice or a child does with the one teaching them. Applaud their effort, and tell them what the next step is to improve.

That's fair, unless you go dropping "truth bombs" on people who haven't asked for input. That's where the doucheyness starts.

emmagine wrote:
I don't understand the problem with truth bombs. Don't be insulting about it, but if someones model looks terribad, telling them "pretty cool" certainly isn't helping them. Hell, I don't even do that with 5 year olds. Usually, if someone new to the hobby comes showing you his new shiny model, he's doing it the same way an apprentice or a child does with the one teaching them. Applaud their effort, and tell them what the next step is to improve.

I don't grant your premise. Just because somebody is showing you their model, it does not mean they are soliciitng feedback or seeking approval. Context matters. Sure if you are a well known master painter, and the person seeks you out to show you his stuff, it's a lot more likely that he's looking for some comments. If you are just playing a pick up game, and he has no clue who you are? The guy might just be geeked about his new toy.

As for the problem with truth bombs? They are (metaphorical) bombs. They are meant to disrupt, if not outright hurt the person they are delivered to. Sure, plenty of people need disruption, but unsolicited advice is rarely treasured.