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Hey all

I wasn't entirely happy with the performances of both my black and brown Vallejo washes. No matter how I thinned them, or altered my application, I got pretty ropey results.

So, I decided to buy a tub of Nuln Oil and another of Agrax Earthshade, before a weekend of painting.

Wow. The difference is incredible. GW really do have a huge advantage when it comes to their washes range, from my experience anyway.

How do the rest of you find them, comparatively?

I am a huge Vallejo fan generally... but honestly I have had a difficult time using the washes... I got tired of it and switched to Secret Weapon washes. They are way better sofar.

Don't know why they struggle on the washes. Or perhaps I am doing something wrong.

I have a few Vallejo washes and they are meh. I have a few of the secret weapons stuff and really like them. Most of what I use for washes now are oils that I mix up myself though. So much better then anything I have found in an acrylic yet.

Vallejo washes and GW washes arent meant for the same applications. GW washes are meant as a shading cheat, vallejonwashes are meant for edge blending and weathering.

I have GW washes and the Army Painter washes.

I've also followed some of the recipes to make my own.

I like the GW ones the best.

I like the idea of the oil washes but I haven't tried them yet.

GW washes are awesome, I have most of their range on my desk. The Secret weapons minatures ones, as said, are also top notch. Their "Baby Poop" wash is a staple of my nurgle stuff

I've got GW's old Badab Black and Gryphonne Sepia. Both are fantastic aside from the horrendous vomit inducing smell. Don't know how they compare to their re-branded washes (glazes now I think?).

I also have the Vallejo Green and Flesh wash. The Green is a bit sub-par. The Flesh wash however is fantastic.

Can't comment on any other brand.

GW washes are really good, and in particular, Agrax Earthshade and Nulhn Oil are the two most generically useful

They go on as smooth as butter. I can't imagine painting without GW washes in my toolbox now.

Nulhn Oil on top of Leadbelcher is miles ahead of any other silver + black wash combo, IMO. It just looks so good, every time, and doesn't require any careful application.

Vallejo has several types of wash. I haven't tried their new(ish) weathering washes, (which I assume are the ones chaos0xomega is talking about) but would like to.

As much as I like/love their paints, their GW-old-paint-range-alike washes are garbage.

GW ones are quite good.

Army Painter ones are also good.

Vallejo washes are only serviceable for bulk stuff like terrain really, they just don't flow well enough to suit the purpose of a wash. I'm much happier having moved to a selection of army painter, and secret weapon washes, plus a couple citadel ones which aren't really necessary given the others. I'll only be buying AP and SW from now on for washes, and AP only for the main black/brown ones.

I actually rather like Vallejo washes, but I don't treat them as 'washes' in the same sense as GW or AP washes. They're more like the inks of old, with a heavier body than, say, a Daler Rowny acrylic ink, but more flow and translucency than a regular paint.

While it doesn't make them awesome shaders right out of the bottle, it does increase their flexibility. I can thin the Flesh wash to shade skin, dab it on thickly as a base for rust piments, paint it on smoothly to turn gold a more copper tone or start a heat bluing gradient for steel, thin it and apply evenly as a glaze to dull down reds or warm up browns... the list goes on.

Vallejo's washes are a bit hit and miss and quite situational in how they can be used,

However I have never found a GW wash that doesn't have it's equal (at the very least) in either P3, Army Painter or Secret Weapon's product line apart from Coelia Greenshade. The benefit of getting them from those other lines? More wash in the bottle, generally for less money with the same or better functionality as their GW equivalent.

No brainer to me.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
Vallejo's washes are a bit hit and miss and quite situational in how they can be used,

However I have never found a GW wash that doesn't have it's equal (at the very least) in either P3, Army Painter or Secret Weapon's product line apart from Coelia Greenshade. The benefit of getting them from those other lines? More wash in the bottle, generally for less money with the same or better functionality as their GW equivalent.

No brainer to me.

For sure, GW is a more expensive alternative. However, cost aside, I think GW washes are a very complete range and work quite well. They also are in a pot instead of dropper, and usually, that works better for me in washes (since my wash brush is always clean and I don't have to worry about contamination -- plus, it's hard to gauge how much wash I'm going to use).

Also, my mileage on washes is really quite good; relative to the price of a model, the cost of all the paints and washes that go on it can't be more than a fraction of 1%. Which, I guess is just a way of saying as expensive as paints are, models are way crazier But seriously, my only two washes that I go through tons of is nuhln and agrax.

If I had to pick a second brand, I would go with Army painter, which I use from time to time on terrain. I am not a fan of P3 washes.

Army painter is the same as the old GW washes. So that's what I mostly use now.

Only problem is that GW washes tend to add a filter, unless you gloss varnish it will change the colour.

 Soteks Prophet wrote:
Only problem is that GW washes tend to add a filter, unless you gloss varnish it will change the colour.

Don't all washes add a filter? Unless you don't apply it over the whole surface, it's going to change the colour. In most cases applying a filter is the same as applying a thin wash.

Are we talking about Vallejo Game color washes? yeah they're kinda weird if you treat them as "normal" washes. I use them mainly for tinting and weathering. For other stuff I use Vallejo Game Inks since they're readily available to me. i miss my Gryphonne Sepia and Devlan Mud, though. Wish I can buy something of equivalent quality in Vallejo or P3.

Army Painter soft tone = devlan mud iirc. I never used devlan mud but I've heard others say it's the same. I have it and it's great. Strong tone is a much darker version. Dark tone is basically the old citadel black wash... badab black? I really like it too.

I've done side by side washes of vallejo, secret weapon, army painter and citadel washes and I highly recommend everyone does it so they can see the differences for themselves. There are pics online that do that but it's not the same as seeing it yourself imo.

 Yonan wrote:
Army Painter soft tone = devlan mud iirc. I never used devlan mud but I've heard others say it's the same. I have it and it's great. Strong tone is a much darker version. Dark tone is basically the old citadel black wash... badab black? I really like it too.

I've done side by side washes of vallejo, secret weapon, army painter and citadel washes and I highly recommend everyone does it so they can see the differences for themselves. There are pics online that do that but it's not the same as seeing it yourself imo.

Strong tone is Devlan Mud, Dark Tone is Badab Black. I don't have any Soft Tone, not sure what that is, Sepia wash maybe?

Soft Tone is a dark sepia, yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Talys wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:
Vallejo's washes are a bit hit and miss and quite situational in how they can be used,

However I have never found a GW wash that doesn't have it's equal (at the very least) in either P3, Army Painter or Secret Weapon's product line apart from Coelia Greenshade. The benefit of getting them from those other lines? More wash in the bottle, generally for less money with the same or better functionality as their GW equivalent.

No brainer to me.

For sure, GW is a more expensive alternative. However, cost aside, I think GW washes are a very complete range and work quite well. They also are in a pot instead of dropper, and usually, that works better for me in washes (since my wash brush is always clean and I don't have to worry about contamination -- plus, it's hard to gauge how much wash I'm going to use).

Also, my mileage on washes is really quite good; relative to the price of a model, the cost of all the paints and washes that go on it can't be more than a fraction of 1%. Which, I guess is just a way of saying as expensive as paints are, models are way crazier But seriously, my only two washes that I go through tons of is nuhln and agrax.

If I had to pick a second brand, I would go with Army painter, which I use from time to time on terrain. I am not a fan of P3 washes.

Fair enough, different strokes for different folks and all that. I find I'm pretty good at judging how much wash I need at a time and have a preference for dropper bottles so there's no issue there for me. If you do accidentally get a bit too much out of your bottle at least you had more to begin with

If you go through Agrax and Nuln a lot then I am surprised you haven't made the switch to Army Painter Strong and Dark tone. Near as damn it the same product and 17 ml rather than 12. Your wash cost:model ratio could be even better! If the container's an issue keep a couple of your GW wash pots when done and decant the Army Painter stuff in there,

To be fair the only P3 washes I have are flesh and armour so I can't exactly provide a comprehensive assessment, but I really like both of them.

I probably have more washes than anything else. I use them heavily on practically everything.

Ive settled on Army Painter for any color they have: Black, Brown, Sepia, Red, Blue, Purple, and Green. They are all excellent.

GW also has, in addition to the AP equivalents: Yellow, Orange, Turquoise, Forest Green, and light Sepia. They all function basically the same as army painter, on my orks, I really cant tell whether I have used AP Green Tone or Biel-Tan Shade.

I have a few Vallejos, mainly the greys. They are thicker than you are probably used to, more suited to the old style of "Basecoat model, do all details, bathe it in wash" painting.

Secret weapon makes every color imaginable, and I need to try them.