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Finally got my copy, so time to help out the rest of you who have been begging for answers. I'm going to assume that you're familiar with the IG codex in general and just point out the differences in the rules for the DKoK army. And now for the wall of text:

General Rules

Army-wide rules: everything is at least WS 4 (already included in unit profiles), you ignore morale checks from shooting casualties, and you can ignore the 25% requirement for regrouping normally within 6" of a DKoK officer. Then, if that's not enough, you get a bunch of redundant unit-specific rules/orders/etc to ignore or minimize morale problems. So, short form, you're not running away.

Allies: DKoK are explicitly not an IG codex supplement, and get their own faction. They're battle brothers with IG, Elysian drop troops, C:SM, SW, SoB, knights, and inquisition. They're allies of convenience with GK, BA and DA. Everyone else is come the apocalypse, as if that really means much in 7th. Interestingly this new faction should allow you to mix units with the IA12 list, solving the problem with the absence of flyers and allowing the IA12 list to get access to the improved Hades and the new detachments.

Orders: DKoK get their own orders, which mostly work like codex orders. The only difference is that the DKoK list doesn't seem to have any limit on giving multiple orders to a unit, as long as it hasn't run or shot already. So feel free to try to re-issue failed orders, regroup a unit and then FRFSRF it, etc. Oh, and DKoK orders only work on DKoK units, no mixing with normal IG. The specific orders:

Duty unto death (CCS only): re-roll leadership until your next shooting phase, and become fearless if you roll a double 1. Since you already don't care much about leadership you'll probably never use this.
Bring it down (CCS only): back to the 5th edition version for DKoK, twin-linked against a MC or vehicle. Obviously useful.
Get back in the fight (CCS only): same as codex IG. If you somehow have a DKoK unit falling back you can fix the problem.
Dig in: +1 to non-fortification cover saves until your next turn, but can't run or assault. A nice upgrade from the codex version since you don't have to go to ground to get the bonus and remain free to shoot.
FRFSRF: same as codex. Semi-useful, +1 flashlight shot is obviously good, but without combined squads it's harder to use this efficiently.
Clear the trenches: lasguns become assault 2 range 12" and the squad gets move through cover for the rest of the turn. Use it when you want to charge, otherwise FRFSRF wins.

Warlord traits: the usual mix of good and awful. In an interesting defensive mirror of the IA12 list all of your bonuses work in your own deployment zone instead of your opponent's.
1) Unflinching defense: warlord and units within 12" get +1 to wound count in combat in your own deployment zone. Completely useless, IG always take so many casualties that you either win combat, have a commissar and don't care how many wounds you inflict, or die horribly but do enough damage to be worth it.
2) Shattering bombardment: each shooting phase one ordnance weapon within 6" of your warlord is twin-linked. You will always have ordnance weapons, and you will always love this trait. Best on a commissar attached to an earthshaker unit, since twin-linking the initial shot makes the rest of your barrage a lot more accurate.
3) Victory or death: warlord and unit get FNP (6+) when in a fortification or getting cover behind a defense line. Completely useless, too much ignores FNP on a T3 model and even when you get it a 6+ "save" isn't worth much. Insult to injury is that all of the hits from the building damage table are STR 6 and ignore your FNP.
4) Smoke barrage: automatic night fight turn 1. Too bad night fighting is almost irrelevant in 7th.
5) Martyr's defiance: warlord and units within 6" get preferred enemy (infantry) in your deployment zone. Do I really need to explain why this is powerful?
6) Siege master: reduce the cover of one non-fortification terrain piece in your opponent's deployment zone by 1. Really variable in power based on your opponent's army and what terrain is on the table, but potentially very nice.

HQ:

CCS: it sucks. You pay twice as much as a codex CCS because of your mandatory standard (which is barely relevant because you're DKoK and don't care about morale), and you can only take two special weapons. Otherwise the same as the codex, except no psyker or bodyguards. Thankfully, unlike the IA12 list, you aren't forced to take one if you don't mind losing access to CCS orders. And since the death rider detachment is near-mandatory you'll have a better source of CCS orders available.

Commissar-general: same as codex, but with a Centaur dedicated transport option. This might be your least-bad HQ option if you aren't taking the death rider detachment because it's so cheap and you can hide it in a squad somewhere to protect your warlord.

Quartermaster cadre: it sucks. It's a small squad like a CCS, but instead of useful orders you get FNP (6+) to units within 6". And FNP (6+) on a T3 unit is a joke. Do not ever take this awful unit unless you're playing some weird mission where you have to suicide your warlord.

Elite:

Grenadier squad: take a codex storm trooper squad, remove the pistols and deep strike option. At least, unlike other DKoK units, the point cost doesn't go up. You don't get the hotshot special weapon options, but you can swap two grenadiers for a HWT with a heavy flamer. And you can take a Centaur transport if you only have 5 models. Since these are elites (instead of troops, like in IA12) and probably die before you can use their morale rule I can't see much reason to take them instead of allied storm troopers.

Hydra platform: immobile AV 10 with 2 HP, but at least it's not open-topped. Oh, and it's cheap and gets the "no jink saves" rule back, assuming FW doesn't errata it away as a copy/paste typo from the previous book. This is your only AA without allies, which is unfortunate because it's so easy to kill. I'm not sure if I can justify these, you'll probably want allies for your AA.

Rapier: finally a good unit. For ~50 points (with extra crew that are almost mandatory) you get a HWT with a lascannon, except it's artillery, BS 4, twin-linked, and ordnance. And you get 1-3 of them per squad. Needless to say you will never take HWS if you have these available. The only real drawback is that it's ordnance so it can't even attempt to fire at flyers or FMCs, which is a pretty big issue in the current metagame.

Field artillery: quad gun (kind of like a Wyvern) or heavy mortar (the old Griffon). Durable, cheap, and excellent anti-infantry firepower for the point cost. And since you don't care about morale from shooting you don't have to pay the commissar tax to keep them from running away. This is one of the best units in the book and you'll almost always take at least one unit of them.

Troops:

Platoon: they suck, which is really sad since this is supposed to be the infantry-heavy DKoK list. You pay the same +20 points per squad as the IA12 list, but you don't get the respawn rule that justifies paying that much. Your PCS only gets two specials, only HWS can take heavies at all, and you can't combine squads. Also, SWS and conscripts are gone. Sadly if you want DKoK platoons get the IA12 list and do it right.

Engineers: veterans with carapace armor and shotguns. Only one special weapon, but you can also take a mole mortar (useless) or heavy flamer (good) and the usual sergeant options. Oh, and you get a Hades drill, which is the reason to take this squad. Otherwise it's just a troops tax unit, but thanks to the special detachment you'll never be paying the troops tax.

Dedicated transports:

Centaur: fast AV 11/10/10 with 2 HP and open-topped. Only gun is a heavy stubber (lol). Only room for 5 models, which means that hardly anyone gets to use one effectively. Oh, and it gets to tow artillery around, if you'd rather give up shooting for a turn than deploy them in the right place to begin with. The only real advantage the Centaur has is that it's a TINY model that can easily hide behind cover.

Hades: ah, the infamous over-nerfed former "most overpowered unit ever". Well, now it's fixed. It now joins the engineer squad (with a MC-level stat line), and there's no more deep strike attack (you still have to deep strike though, so aim carefully). In exchange you get a 4++ when you deep strike or tunnel, and you can tunnel in one of two ways. You can move 12" during the movement phase, ignoring all terrain and other models, but can't assault or run. Or you can tunnel to assault, rolling 2D6 and taking the two lowest dice. This turns off overwatch and gives you D6+2 melta gun HOW hits (!!!), plus if you assault a building or transport everyone inside takes a STR 4 AP 2 hit on a 4+. So if you can keep a small engineer squad alive (probably by having multiple copies to overwhelm your opponent) long enough to charge you can really hurt stuff. The only real downside seems to be that it no longer has a ranged weapon, which is probably a typo. Oh, and it moves the engineer squad to elites instead of troops, but this is rarely an issue with the near-mandatory special detachment.

Fast Attack:

Cyclops: remote control demo charge. The operator (single guardsman) and bomb (T6 W2 4+) are separate models that can be up to 48" apart. The cyclops can detonate at I10 in melee, placing a STR 9 AP 3 5" blast on top of it. Too bad consolidation happens at initiative in 7th so you'll rarely hit more than one model, if you can even keep the bomb alive long enough to get there. Anyway, you're DKoK, you have plenty of earthshakers to deliver STR 9 AP 3 pie plates the easy way.

Hellhound: same as codex. However, your fast attack slots are more likely to be available, so it does make them a somewhat more appealing option.

Death riders: what rough riders dream of being. Two wounds, carapace armor, two attacks base, 6+ FNP, and re-roll dangerous terrain. All you lose is the special weapons, but you never took those anyway. So you have the durability to reach your target, the power to kill it, and a pretty good mobile scoring unit once the lances are gone. And at only 15 points per model they're incredibly efficient. You can even take a whole platoon of them (with a BS 4 command squad) in one FOC slot. Also, see special detachments.

Heavy Support:

Thunderer squadron: a LR Demolisher with no turret or secondary guns and a 30 point price drop. Since ordnance makes your other guns useless anyway this is a pretty good deal. If you want demolishers you take these instead 90% of the time.

LRBT squadron: same as codex (plus variant tanks from IA1), except that vanquishers can take a coax heavy stubber (twin-link the main gun if the coax gun hits) but still suck. These have the 7th edition codex point costs, both good and bad. And they're used exactly the same way as codex LRBTs.

Heavy weapon platoon: 1-3 HWS. HWS suck. They still suck when they're heavy support.

Bombard battery: remember the Colossus from the old IG codex? It's now STR 8 instead of STR 6. It's still just as awesome for removing enemy scoring units from their cover. And you can still take 1-3 in a squadron.

Heavy artillery battery: another classic "oh god it's overpowered" unit. 75 points gets you a Basilisk, except it's artillery instead of a vehicle so it's more durable. And you can upgrade them to Medusas with optional bastion breacher shells if you want AP 2 instead of range. These were fair in 5th when artillery was fragile and had a limited firing arc, but the 6th and 7th edition artillery rules made them much tougher and gave them the ability to fire in a 360* arc like infantry, all without a matching point increase. Any DKoK list that is even semi-competitive is going to take several of these, and it's hard to argue with spending all of your heavy support slots on a full nine.

Lords of War:

Nothing new here. You get the Baneblade, Valdor, Crassus, Praetor, Gorgon, Malcador and variants, Macharius and variants, and Marauder. Most of them are mediocre at best for their point cost, so unless you're taking a Baneblade you'll probably want to get your superheavies elsewhere if you're allowed to use them.

Detachments:

Death rider squadron (AKA "the mandatory new detachment"): DEATH RIDERS AS TROOPS. We've been asking for rough riders as troops for years, and we finally got it. Well, not quite, they're still fast attack, but the mandatory FOC slots are HQ + 2x fast attack and all death riders get "objective secured". One death rider command squad is upgraded to a CCS, including the CCS orders. And you still get 2x troops, 4x elites, 4x fast attack, and 4x heavy support on top of the mandatory stuff. This is just unbelievably good, you replace the mediocre normal troops with awesome cavalry and there's no drawback at all. This frees up your engineers to become elites with Hades drills, giving you a nice mix of deep strike, fast cavalry, and a giant pile of artillery to hold your "home" objectives. Also, you get fear (lol) if multiple squads charge something.

Gorgon assault squadron: mandatory Gorgon, 1x HQ, 1x troops, 1x elites. Plus up to 1x HQ, 9x troops, 2x elite, 2x fast, 2x heavy, 2x LOW (must all be Gorgons). Everything gets furious charge when it disembarks, and the Gorgons get IWND while a unit is in them. A Gorgon is a bad superheavy transport that costs almost as much as a Stormlord but has no (useful) guns, and this detachment is built around them. This probably means it will only see use in Gorgon-themed armies that don't care about competitiveness. But if that's the army theme you want you're going to love this detachment.

GDI forgeworld, my wallet is going to break on death riders. I have almost no models but always found them cool as feth.

Arrrg, so much for vacation plans money lolol.

Btw, anything useful with the inquisition in there? I always liked the fluff parts when the inquisition got involved. Surprised they aren't battle brothers with GK as the fluff would have made me think otherwise.

 sudojoe wrote:
Btw, anything useful with the inquisition in there?

Just the one inquisitor character (who is entirely separate from the DKoK list), and I don't know enough about that army to tell you if he's good or not.

Surprised they aren't battle brothers with GK as the fluff would have made me think otherwise.

DKoK hate psykers and don't trust the "loyal" ones. AoC makes perfect sense, they'll fight on the same side without issues but they aren't going to love it.

Hey Peregrine, how many death riders would it take to max out a FoC slot now with the detatchment. I'm trying to figure out how much $$ that will cost to even attempt to build.

Alternatively, I guess I can always use some Fantasy chaos riders and change out the rider on top for a DoK infantry model (with legs not quite connected right lol)

Do the heavy mortars/engineers get carcass shells?

Are Heavy weapon platoons cheaper than the squads in infantry platoons?

Other than the Hades, and the points costs on tanks and formations it looks like Forge world were just really lazy and didn't bother to improve the list at all. I am so disappointed in this list.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
Do the heavy mortars/engineers get carcass shells?

No carcass shells, unfortunately. In fact, unless I've missed something, all of the IA12-only upgrades are still omitted. If it wasn't in the siege army pdf it isn't in this book.

Are Heavy weapon platoons cheaper than the squads in infantry platoons?

Nope, the rules are exactly the same. The only difference is whether you take the HWS as part of a troops platoon or spend a priceless heavy support slot. I'm not really sure which of those two awful options is the least bad.

Other than the Hades, and the points costs on tanks and formations it looks like Forge world were just really lazy and didn't bother to improve the list at all. I am so disappointed in this list.

Yeah, it's really not much of a change from the update pdf, except the Hades and the death rider formation. The formation is awesome and completely changes how the army plays, but it's frustrating that you have to buy a whole new Vraks book just to get one bit added to the pdf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sudojoe wrote:
Hey Peregrine, how many death riders would it take to max out a FoC slot now with the detatchment. I'm trying to figure out how much $$ that will cost to even attempt to build.

Each platoon consists of 0-1 command squad and 1-6 squads. Each squad starts at five models and can include up to ten, the command squad is fixed at five plus an optional commissar. The special detachment requires two platoons and an upgraded command squad. So that's a minimum of 15 models if you just want to satisfy the mandatory FOC requirements, up to 402 models (though that will cost you over 6000 points) if you want a literal maximum. The 15-model minimum is a pretty good starting point and worth taking, especially since you can take the special detachment alongside an existing army.

Damn. Heavy weapon platoons used to be base 60 points, rather than base 75 in infantry platoons. Making them worth it in my opinion.

....Must not buy pure Death Rider Cavalry army....
....Must not buy pure Death Rider Cavalry army....

Automatically Appended Next Post:
sudojoe wrote:
Hey Peregrine, how many death riders would it take to max out a FoC slot now with the detatchment. I'm trying to figure out how much $$ that will cost to even attempt to build.


Each platoon consists of 0-1 command squad and 1-6 squads. Each squad starts at five models and can include up to ten, the command squad is fixed at five plus an optional commissar. The special detachment requires two platoons and an upgraded command squad. So that's a minimum of 15 models if you just want to satisfy the mandatory FOC requirements, up to 402 models (though that will cost you over 6000 points) if you want a literal maximum. The 15-model minimum is a pretty good starting point and worth taking, especially since you can take the special detachment alongside an existing army.

lol that gave me a giggle but also cringe at the same time.

I think I might start looking at them as a 5 man Command squad + 2 units of 10 men each to give them more ablative wounds to make it into assault.

25 riders seem like a decent start anyway and should be able to fit into some lists for good times with cheap earthshaker artillery batteries or bombard battery. I always liked the colossus from the old IG and I like the looks of the str 8 even more especially with ignore cover. =p gg tau suits in cover or eldar stuff too. Good vs more things in my opinion than the earthshaker as I can damage wave serpents alot easier and feth over those MC's with a toe in terrain.

I just worry about air. there's like 2 guys in the area that picked up cheap hive tyrants with wings (and it's actually a really cheap $$ wise money to build) and it's getting kind of annoying already. One guy always played nids but now another is joining the same train. Their ground forces differ a little but really it's all about air power. I don't see anything DoK has to help me but I do like having more armies to play for fun too.

Hrm.. just did the math, 25 horsemen will cost something like $537 USD to buy... cripes that's gonna sting... maybe I'll just bring the bombards (as I already have plenty of grendiers I can use as regular guardsmen) and just ally in some SM air power. I still have my old colossus conversions from 5th. Finally get to dust them off!

It is nice to see the love of Death Riders spreading around. I've been a big fan of the models for quite some time now. And can't tell you how glad I was to see they were finally getting their mounted command squad back. Thus over the next couple of months I'll be expanding my 15 men force into a 25 men force and then onwards to....

Here's a project blog I just started.

At the OP, thanks a lot for a good review of the new DKoK list.

I get the feeling from this that FW didn't even put in any effort on the list.

It makes me sad my Krieg will still be sitting on the shelf, as i have been waiting for this update.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
I get the feeling from this that FW didn't even put in any effort on the list.

IMO that's an accurate summation of both this and the IA13 book. They're just paying lip service to 40k updates (in the loosest sense of the word) whilst they concentrate on HH stuff.

Probably, if you played DKoK vs Renegades and picked the sort of army lists that are implied to be typical it would not be so bad.

I guess it's nice that we have our own faction now, because I will sure as feth mix and match units from both lists in order to make something decent. It's sad to see that they didn't receive the update they so sorely needed. It's funny when you need to frontload with OP units in order to have a fighting chance.

Question: can they take any Baneblade variant (Shadowsword, Stormlord etc) or are we limited to the normal one?

 Aenarian wrote:
I guess it's nice that we have our own faction now, because I will sure as feth mix and match units from both lists in order to make something decent. It's sad to see that they didn't receive the update they so sorely needed. It's funny when you need to frontload with OP units in order to have a fighting chance.

Question: can they take any Baneblade variant (Shadowsword, Stormlord etc) or are we limited to the normal one?

I emailed FW about this and got a "FAQs are the only official answer, but here's our house rules we use" response:

The IA12 list is somehow not part of the DKoK faction, which seems so ridiculous that you almost have to dismiss it with "only FAQs are official". On the other hand, if it's an IG codex supplement then you get even more powerful options, so I guess that's a trade you might be willing to make?

You are not allowed to take Baneblade variants, only the basic Baneblade.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Well, I guess it's nice that we can ally them. I can probably get my friends to allow me to count them as DKoK too as I'd rather not mix them with IG, but I might have no choice.

Anyway, thanks for all your help. Now I'm seriously considering not buying the book and simply keep on using IA:12.

 Aenarian wrote:
Now I'm seriously considering not buying the book and simply keep on using IA:12.

Honestly, if you aren't going to use the death rider formation or updated Hades drill this book has nothing to offer you. IA12 has the DKoK units, and IA1 has the earthshaker batteries.

does the Death rider squadron have a LOW slot? and is there any point differences between this list and the PDF list?

mane11354 wrote:
does the Death rider squadron have a LOW slot?

I assume you mean the death rider detachment (the squadron is just a fast attack unit), and yes, it does. One LoW slot, with the same limited list of options as the siege list in general.

and is there any point differences between this list and the PDF list?

A few, but not very many. If you're playing the army you'll need the updated rules as some things have changed and the pdf is no longer legal. If you just want to know how the army works to decide if you want to start a DKoK army or to prepare for an opponent that plays DKoK then the pdf is a pretty good approximation of the current rules.

Ok thanks

Whoah whoah whoah. I see no mention of any flyers. Are you telling me that the Avenger I spent more money than sense dictated wise on is now not technically legal?

 God In Action wrote:
Whoah whoah whoah. I see no mention of any flyers. Are you telling me that the Avenger I spent more money than sense dictated wise on is now not technically legal?

No flyers at all, other than the Marauder (NOT the destroyer variant, which is much better) as a LoW option. If you want flyers you'll have to play the IA12 assault brigade list, which does include the Avenger.

Might have as well called it IA: Artillery and Horses

"Interestingly this new faction should allow you to mix units with the IA12 list, solving the problem with the absence of flyers and allowing the IA12 list to get access to the improved Hades and the new detachments."

Do you mean the two lists can take units from one another as part of the same detachment (surely not?), or that they can ally with one another in the same way that Tau and Farsight Enclaves work with one another?

I'm not seeing any new ways to really play the army open up with this update, apart from the Deathrider detachment. Artillery behind a defence line manned by troops that don't budge no matter what is still the way to go.

I believe that the idea is that since you are only required to take units from the same faction for most detachments, instead of the same army list, you are allowed to mix between different army lists. For example, a Heavy Artillery Battery is a heavy support unit for the Death Korps faction, and since there are no rules against mixing army lists, you could take it as part of any Death Korps army, be it Assault Brigade (when it is updated) or Siege Regiment.

I cannot confirm nor deny that it is permitted by the rules, but that is the gist of it.

Woooo, I will just run my DKOK as regular guard and bring in my horses. finally I can justify getting more than the 10 I already have.

I realize I'm a day late and a dollar short, but still curious. Do the Quad Launchers have pinning? And if not.. Do they still bizarrely have the Shell Shock special rule?

Actually, out of blunt curiosity, do -any- of the artillery / barrage pieces have pinning? =/

Heavy Quad Launchers do not have pinning in the weapons summary, but Forgeworld has said via mail that this is a mistake and that they should have it. They still have the Shell Shock rule.

As of now, only Heavy Mortars, Double Earthshaker (Minotaur) and Colossus Siege Bombard have pinning.

 Aenarian wrote:
Heavy Quad Launchers do not have pinning in the weapons summary, but Forgeworld has said via mail that this is a mistake and that they should have it. They still have the Shell Shock rule.

As of now, only Heavy Mortars, Double Earthshaker (Minotaur) and Colossus Siege Bombard have pinning.

I got the same answer back when I asked them about Quad Launchers too. So yay pinning! (which is quite good when you run it with the twin link order i guess).

While the DKoK list has not been very good, I did find that the Renegade list has all kinds of fun goodies ( and i do not typically like chaos). I made an interesting list using the master of the horde rule and the endless host (?) detachment that I think will mirror the basic concept (in my mind at least) of how Krieg combat should run minus the artillery aka waves upon waves of men doomed to die! (for those who dont know, the detachment makes infantry squads come back on a roll of 2+ with all options, they get outflank AND if any unit is getting a cover save from infantry it becomes a 3+)

Yay, my copy arrived!

I'm surprised to even be thinking this, but I think the Conqueror just became an attractive Leman Russ variant. They made it Fast, but retained the Leman Russ AV spread. With the proper upgrades I think it could make a good Monstrous Creature hunting platform for pushing quickly down on flank. A steal at 115 points. What do you all think?

Also, the changes to the Hades make it potentially attractive finally. I'm thinking attaching an Inquisitor to it and using a 10 man squad as an objective grabber with surprising durability/killing power for guardsmen.