Switch Theme:

LGS being very rude to another person (Warning: Ranty!)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

So, small bit of background here: I go to a game shop that recently (about a year ago) got into Warmachine and has only recently (year and a half?) evolved from being a comic shop to carrying Magic, board games and other things (they split off from the comic shop at the start of the year to get a larger space).

We had a Press Ganger (Privateer Press volunteer, like the old GW Outriders program), whom I'll call Bob, start coming to the store with the intention to help grow the community. People were immediately hostile to him because supposedly he had a bad reputation in the area (it was never verified, it was basically one of our regulars saying "This Bob guy has been kicked out of every game store in the area, that's why he's coming here"), especially because one other person there (I'll call him Joe) had gotten the initial interest in Warmachine, did a demo game with the owner to sell him on it, etc. and took offense at somebody else coming in and "usurping his community", and told me as much in private that he wouldn't let someone else come in and take control over "his thing".

Joe and I recently became Press Gangers ourselves but Joe has completely twisted the concept and been appointed the "store Press Ganger" by the owner when there is no such thing (in fact, you can't be accepted if you are tied to a store), and I suspect that he only became one to make himself seem like the big shot since he "got Warmachine started here", since he doesn't care about running official events at all. Now, the issue is that Bob is constantly undermined whenever he tries to do something; people will complain to the owner for no reason about him, the owner jumps on him for basically anything (we were talking in the game room once about Press Ganger stuff unrelated to the store after I was accepted, and the owner comes over and starts chewing him out for it, claiming it was disrespectful; Bob's been chewed out for trying to use the store's computer to print out sheets for a tournament, or for trying to organize an official event without getting "permission" to do it, or once for I don't know what but the owner took him outside of the store to talk to him), and in general empowers the people who dislike him, even going so far as telling him (no idea if it's true or not) that people at the shop have complained to PP about Bob. When Bob organized a tournament, there were people talking about boycotting it and not showing up just because Bob was the one doing it. This only happens to Bob, not to me, so it's clear that they are deliberately doing it to him, probably to make him so miserable that he stops coming.

Bob also made some terrain for the store, some of which he casted himself and others which he made from MDF; he also has sold this he told me. People treated the terrain like crap, throwing it around, not being careful, etc. so a few days ago when he wanted to run another tournament (that nobody showed up for and was cancelled) he saw this and said screw it, and took most of his terrain back because people aren't being respectful of his time and money. This now has caused a bit of a stir on our private group where people, including the store owner, seem to be angry at this because they felt it was a donation and not a loan, and again are singling out Bob. In private he's told me that he's not sure if he's coming back to the store, and I told him I can't blame him since there seems to be a very antagonistic approach to his being there and people, including the owner, seem content with treating him poorly to try and run him out. The impression that I get is they want to be a clique and don't like the idea of an "outsider" coming in. They don't seem interested in growing a community or doing official events.

Now, this doesn't really affect me personally as Bob is an adult and can take care of himself, but it's really gnawing at me how bad this guy gets treated, how Joe acts like Bob is a threat that needs to be removed and how the store owner empowers that idea every chance he gets. I think the terrain thing was the last straw because Bob IMHO was right to remove his terrain since people can't treat it with respect, and now there's a lot of hostility at him for doing it as though he's the bad guy. I mean, the guy comes to the store (an hour's drive for him he says) to try and help build the community, and the community is very cliquish and hostile and was basically like "Feth off we don't want you here". from day one It's disturbing.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

1. I wouldn't have anything to do with that store or store owner.

2. I would email Privateer Press about Joe's behavior. If he's really "tied to the one store" and that's against their rules, they should know about it.

3. Move along to a better community, if possible.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Rust belt

To much drama in your community, I would look else where to play. When you go to a store your there to relax and enjoy your day the last thing I would want to hear are people's who got the bigger penis issues. Sounds like Joe needs to be taken down a notch or two.

P.S. I don't blame Bob for taking his terrain and going home. Who needs to be treated like that on their own free time

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/24 13:04:41


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

The store owner seems like a tool.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Kanluwen wrote:
The store owner seems like a tool.


I think he's new to running a game store, and/or having regulars there who might always be like "Bob is such a jerk, Bob is always rude, Bob did X" whisperings.

I'm not 100% sure as like I said I've only observed it and spoken to Bob about it in private briefly when he took the terrain back.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






I have to agree that it sounds like time to find a new place to play (not always easy I know).

However the main reason I wanted to reply was to say well done. It sounds like you have always treated Bob fairly and with respect and he is probably grateful that not everyone is a tool to him at the store.

One person can make the difference.


Never forgive, never remember! 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

WayneTheGame wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
The store owner seems like a tool.


I think he's new to running a game store, and/or having regulars there who might always be like "Bob is such a jerk, Bob is always rude, Bob did X" whisperings.

I'm not 100% sure as like I said I've only observed it and spoken to Bob about it in private briefly when he took the terrain back.

Let me put it bluntly then.

If he's letting cliques run his store, he's doing it wrong.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






It's threads like this that remind me how lucky I am with my local GW store. Friendly helpful staff that also run a game club in a different venue on a Monday night. Everyone is welcome at both.

Nothing is too much trouble and they go above and beyond the call of duty. Not just what we should expect from game stores but from all stores.

Never forgive, never remember! 
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wargaming shouldn't have so much drama attached to it

My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Kanluwen wrote:
WayneTheGame wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
The store owner seems like a tool.


I think he's new to running a game store, and/or having regulars there who might always be like "Bob is such a jerk, Bob is always rude, Bob did X" whisperings.

I'm not 100% sure as like I said I've only observed it and spoken to Bob about it in private briefly when he took the terrain back.

Let me put it bluntly then.

If he's letting cliques run his store, he's doing it wrong.


Sadly most stores I've seen turn into cliques that don't like "outsiders" coming in to mess up their ecosystem. I've seen it at basically every store I've gone to over a span of years. There's always an established group that wants to run things their way and don't like someone else coming around. In this case it's particularly painful because our locals tend to play fast and loose with the rules, so they become hostile to someone who is experienced.

What bothered me more was the outright hostile attitude towards Bob when other than being a little abrasive (but hey, we're geeks, not exactly known for social skills) at times he's done nothing wrong and has been doing everything in his power to help the community grow. I've seen him get yelled at by the owner for:

* Talking with me in the back room about things we wanted to do at the store, for not involving him (the owner) in the discussion; I think this was Joe's doing as Joe had already gone behind everyone's backs, determined he was going to do an event and cleared it with the owner and then announced it to us when we had set up what was basically a meeting to talk about ideas for events. I recall that Joe came a little late, saw us talking, went right to the owner and then the owner came back and started chewing Bob out for being disrespectful for talking about events in his store without involving him, when previously he had said that it was best to decide and then clear with him afterwards.
* Wanting to use the store computer to print out scenario sheets for a tournament, although to be fair I think Bob was just going to use it without asking, but we also had a tournament scheduled so I guess maybe he thought it went without saying that he could use it.
* Supposed complaints from other people about him, for unknown reasons
* "Cheating" by which I think they meant playing by the rules and using tricks they didn't know were in the rules
* (Insinuated) taking back his terrain which he "donated" because people were disrespectful and treating it poorly. In this discussion one of the regular's piped up that he made some buildings and enjoys the fact that they are used/handled, I guess the point was that Bob is a jerk for taking back terrain that's damaged because the damage means that it's being used.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/24 14:04:30


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in no
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Maybe you should ask yourself if these are the kind of people you want to spend time with?

"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Not a good situation to be in

first off as a Press Ganger yourself you need to uphold the rules (and ideals) of the program so you need to inform PP of the issues with Joe/Bob/the store,

and make clear that while you understand they may not pass on information to you about what action they have taken you do want to be informed that action has been taken

After that you've got to decide whether your gaming/ shopping at this store is worth the stress it's clearly giving you

 
   
Made in us
Winged Kroot Vulture






Yeah, that store doesn't sound like a good influence in the community. I think reporting the behaviors of that PG to PP would be a good move.

Also, may I ask, what are the allegations against Bob that make people avoid him?

I would also suggest that you and Bob try to run an event that isn't connected to a specific store. This might cost some money, but if you also advertise outside of the community it might bring in people who are unfamiliar with your local community. I don't know if you can charge an entrance fee for such events since I never actually participated in one but this might be an idea to cover costs for renting a place.

If I were you I would start putting it out there that you have no problem with Bob and that any flaws he has you are mature enough to over look them because the game matters more.

I'm back! 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 ProtoClone wrote:
Yeah, that store doesn't sound like a good influence in the community. I think reporting the behaviors of that PG to PP would be a good move.

Also, may I ask, what are the allegations against Bob that make people avoid him?
.


No idea, it was basically before he even showed up one guy was talking about someone matching his description that used to go to a store that closed, and that he was kicked out of there, and supposedly has been kicked out of every other game store in the area. Then when Bob came to our store that person was immediately like that's the guy (not to him of course, to everyone else) so it was more or less him going into a store where people had already been told to watch out for him because he supposedly was so awful that no other game store in the area wanted him and it was assumed he came here because the shop was fairly new. Supposedly, and I don't know this for sure as I wasn't there, when he arrived he made a big deal out of being a Press Ganger and wanting to run official events (he might have said that the shop needed a PG to run official events), so that also rubbed people the wrong way immediately. Supposedly he also got pissy with someone who was proxying some 40k figures for Warmachine figures and told them "Never do that in this shop again", but again I wasn't there and heard it secondhand from people who already didn't like him. I admit when I first met Bob he came off a bit brusque and aggressive, but like I said he's a quintessential nerd so it's not unexpected.

What really got my goat and made me post this was like I said we have a private group, and it got to the terrain discussion. Well, Bob posted something about how they were damaged so he took them back, and one of the regulars posts, and I quote: "Hey Bob here's an idea... Go feth yourself, and find another store!" and the store owner only talked about how the terrain is there for everybody and "I thought when you left the terrain here it was a donation not a loan" and didn't touch on the other guy's comment at all or said how that was inappropriate to say. So it's clear that they don't want him there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/24 15:18:57


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Winged Kroot Vulture






WayneTheGame wrote:
 ProtoClone wrote:
Yeah, that store doesn't sound like a good influence in the community. I think reporting the behaviors of that PG to PP would be a good move.

Also, may I ask, what are the allegations against Bob that make people avoid him?
.


No idea, it was basically before he even showed up one guy was talking about someone matching his description that used to go to a store that closed, and that he was kicked out of there, and supposedly has been kicked out of every other game store in the area. Then when Bob came to our store that person was immediately like that's the guy (not to him of course, to everyone else) so it was more or less him going into a store where people had already been told to watch out for him because he supposedly was so awful that no other game store in the area wanted him and it was assumed he came here because the shop was fairly new. Supposedly, and I don't know this for sure as I wasn't there, when he arrived he made a big deal out of being a Press Ganger and wanting to run official events (he might have said that the shop needed a PG to run official events), so that also rubbed people the wrong way immediately. Supposedly he also got pissy with someone who was proxying some 40k figures for Warmachine figures and told them "Never do that in this shop again", but again I wasn't there and heard it secondhand from people who already didn't like him. I admit when I first met Bob he came off a bit brusque and aggressive, but like I said he's a quintessential nerd so it's not unexpected.

What really got my goat and made me post this was like I said we have a private group, and it got to the terrain discussion. Well, Bob posted something about how they were damaged so he took them back, and one of the regulars posts, and I quote: "Hey Bob here's an idea... Go feth yourself, and find another store!" and the store owner only talked about how the terrain is there for everybody and "I thought when you left the terrain here it was a donation not a loan" and didn't touch on the other guy's comment at all or said how that was inappropriate to say. So it's clear that they don't want him there.


Have you talked to Bob about these rumors?

Granted, it's bad business to already dislike someone based on hearsay.

I'm back! 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 ProtoClone wrote:
WayneTheGame wrote:
 ProtoClone wrote:
Yeah, that store doesn't sound like a good influence in the community. I think reporting the behaviors of that PG to PP would be a good move.

Also, may I ask, what are the allegations against Bob that make people avoid him?
.


No idea, it was basically before he even showed up one guy was talking about someone matching his description that used to go to a store that closed, and that he was kicked out of there, and supposedly has been kicked out of every other game store in the area. Then when Bob came to our store that person was immediately like that's the guy (not to him of course, to everyone else) so it was more or less him going into a store where people had already been told to watch out for him because he supposedly was so awful that no other game store in the area wanted him and it was assumed he came here because the shop was fairly new. Supposedly, and I don't know this for sure as I wasn't there, when he arrived he made a big deal out of being a Press Ganger and wanting to run official events (he might have said that the shop needed a PG to run official events), so that also rubbed people the wrong way immediately. Supposedly he also got pissy with someone who was proxying some 40k figures for Warmachine figures and told them "Never do that in this shop again", but again I wasn't there and heard it secondhand from people who already didn't like him. I admit when I first met Bob he came off a bit brusque and aggressive, but like I said he's a quintessential nerd so it's not unexpected.

What really got my goat and made me post this was like I said we have a private group, and it got to the terrain discussion. Well, Bob posted something about how they were damaged so he took them back, and one of the regulars posts, and I quote: "Hey Bob here's an idea... Go feth yourself, and find another store!" and the store owner only talked about how the terrain is there for everybody and "I thought when you left the terrain here it was a donation not a loan" and didn't touch on the other guy's comment at all or said how that was inappropriate to say. So it's clear that they don't want him there.


Have you talked to Bob about these rumors?

Granted, it's bad business to already dislike someone based on hearsay.


I have, and he has no idea what they're talking about. Of course Bob could be lying because who wants to make that known if true?

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

Clearly Joe and the Store owner are behaving like donkeys. That said, this entire situation smacks of folks who haven't sat down and discussed what the rules of play are.

It's probably too late now, but before any of this happened, you, Joe, Bob and the store manager should have a meeting to discuss:
-Who runs demos.
-Who organizes tournaments.
-The disposition of any terrain, game supplies, etc brought to the store for the game (is it a loan or a gift?).
-Who the owner want's to be the "main" contact. PP may not have a hierarchy, but there should be one main contact between a promotional organization and a store.

It sounds like none of this was done and you had two different groups trying to promote the same game. Not surprisingly the community splintered and unpleasantness ensued. As I see it, the situation was doomed from the start.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I suspect "Bob" crimes are nothing more than attending multiple stores. In a gaming store turf war, the simple act of gaming at multiple stores is a crime punishable by 'social exclusion'

Store owners sees every dime spent elsewhere as an attack of them personally. They see people who buy elsewhere or game elsewhere as spies looking to steal customers. So they whip the loyal locals into a hate frenzy to root out those who do not declare complete loyalty to the local store.

So if Bob is a press ganger, his job is to basically support and promote Warmachine at multiple stores. If the FLGS in the area are at war with each other via customer turf battles, he will probably be despised by everyone he tries to interact with.

All you can do is avoid FLGS which turn into cults like this. Situations like this is why I became a gaming Nomad. I would rather drive 2 hours for a tourney to game and go home than to deal with politics. I got quality gaming at well-roganized events and avoided the pitfalls of 'open gaming' with social clicks.

My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA." 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Eilif wrote:
Clearly Joe and the Store owner are behaving like donkeys. That said, this entire situation smacks of folks who haven't sat down and discussed what the rules of play are.

It's probably too late now, but before any of this happened, you, Joe, Bob and the store manager should have a meeting to discuss:
-Who runs demos.
-Who organizes tournaments.
-The disposition of any terrain, game supplies, etc brought to the store for the game (is it a loan or a gift?).
-Who the owner want's to be the "main" contact. PP may not have a hierarchy, but there should be one main contact between a promotional organization and a store.

It sounds like none of this was done and you had two different groups trying to promote the same game. Not surprisingly the community splintered and unpleasantness ensued. As I see it, the situation was doomed from the start.


Well, I think the problems are:

A) Bob came to the store and was immediately singled out as TFG in part because one or more regulars had heard/spread the rumor that he had been kicked out of other stores

B) Joe considers the entire community "his" because he brought it up to the store originally and got it started

C) We had barely any terrain at the store, especially not appropriate terrain (huge walls and the like that aren't really supported by the game), so Bob brought his own and made terrain for tournaments (markers and such) with his own time and money so we would have some things there.

D) Joe has no desire to do anything outside of the store, his goal is to keep the store open not foster a community. However, Joe has been designated the store's Press Ganger because he brought Warmachine to the store, even though he doesn't do anything in that capacity. Basically, for what he wanted to do (run unofficial events at the store) he didn't need to be a Press Ganger.

E) At least some regulars really dislike Bob for unknown reasons, and create a hostile environment for him that the store owner perpetuates and even instigates sometimes (i.e. constantly chewing Bob out for trivial things)

It's a bad situation all around, for everybody.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
nkelsch wrote:
I suspect "Bob" crimes are nothing more than attending multiple stores. In a gaming store turf war, the simple act of gaming at multiple stores is a crime punishable by 'social exclusion'

Store owners sees every dime spent elsewhere as an attack of them personally. They see people who buy elsewhere or game elsewhere as spies looking to steal customers. So they whip the loyal locals into a hate frenzy to root out those who do not declare complete loyalty to the local store.

So if Bob is a press ganger, his job is to basically support and promote Warmachine at multiple stores. If the FLGS in the area are at war with each other via customer turf battles, he will probably be despised by everyone he tries to interact with.

All you can do is avoid FLGS which turn into cults like this. Situations like this is why I became a gaming Nomad. I would rather drive 2 hours for a tourney to game and go home than to deal with politics. I got quality gaming at well-roganized events and avoided the pitfalls of 'open gaming' with social clicks.


You know, I've noticed that a lot of stores do have that mentality. The people strongly discourage even talking about other stores because it's seen as "stealing" customers from "their" store. The groups that play at Store A become a clique and rarely venture out of Store A, and if someone from Store B says "Hey there's a tournament at Store B this weekend" they're likely to be met with hostility or be told to GTFO. I don't get it. I never got the idea. At one point I had like 4-5 stores within around 30 miles, and very rarely did any of them collude; two of them were in basically open war because the WHFB group played at one store and then found there wasn't room, and went to another store instead and it was seen as high treason. I even once, years ago, had a store owner tell me never to talk about other stores because "it's pretty rude to talk about another store in front of the owner of the store you're in". That was like over 10 years ago, and i still see that mentality going on constantly.

Game stores are just like street gangs I guess.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/02/24 18:15:11


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Sining wrote:
Wargaming shouldn't have so much drama attached to it

you haVery human beings, we are likely to get clicky

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

WayneTheGame wrote:


Well, I think the problems are:

A) Bob came to the store and was immediately singled out as TFG in part because one or more regulars had heard/spread the rumor that he had been kicked out of other stores

B) Joe considers the entire community "his" because he brought it up to the store originally and got it started

C) We had barely any terrain at the store, especially not appropriate terrain (huge walls and the like that aren't really supported by the game), so Bob brought his own and made terrain for tournaments (markers and such) with his own time and money so we would have some things there.

D) Joe has no desire to do anything outside of the store, his goal is to keep the store open not foster a community. However, Joe has been designated the store's Press Ganger because he brought Warmachine to the store, even though he doesn't do anything in that capacity. Basically, for what he wanted to do (run unofficial events at the store) he didn't need to be a Press Ganger.

E) At least some regulars really dislike Bob for unknown reasons, and create a hostile environment for him that the store owner perpetuates and even instigates sometimes (i.e. constantly chewing Bob out for trivial things)

It's a bad situation all around, for everybody.


You can think that, and you'd be partly right, but what you're listing are symptoms. You're missing the root problems. Most of that could have been avoided with a sit down when Bob entered the picture and one when you and Joe were added as pressgangers. I'm not denying that Joe, the initial gossiping wargamers and the managers are acting like donkeys, because they are. However, the conditions for such unpleasantness were present from the very beginning as expectations and responsibilities were not communicated to the involved parties.

Interestingly, I see lack of communication in alot of the conflicts that are perennially posted at a dakka.
-The TFG's that continue to cause problems because they are not reported to store officials
-The WAACs and Fluff-Bunnies (deliberately using the slang terms here) who can't spend 30 seconds before a game to determine what sort of game they are looking for and maybe decide that they shouldn't play each other because they don't want the same thing out of the game.
etc, etc.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

None of the details matter.

What matters is that the store doesn't like Bob and that they treat him, and his stuff like gak. They don't even show basic courtesy or respect to him. Bob was absolutely right to take his stuff and go home. If he told the owner and the crowd to go feth themselves, that would have been epic.

The only real question for the OP is whether he wants to be associated with the store any more.

   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





I'd find a different store after telling the owner exactly why.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'd find a different store after telling the owner exactly why.


Definitely a good idea if there's one around. Life's to short to spend time in that kind of environment.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





At least your store knows what Warmachine is. Or anything but Magic and Yugioh.
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Having been a Hobby Store manager before, I can add a couple of comments here and there. This is by no means comprehensive.

1. There should be no debate as to whether or not terrain left in the store is a donation or a loan. If it's a loan, get something in writing. If it's a donation, get something in writing. If the owner/manager sells/dies and you've left stuff in the store with nothing in writing... you basically have no way to prove your claim. Root cause = break down in communication.

2. There should be no debate as to who will be organizing and running events in the store. The store manager/owner SHOULD have final say over the events that occur in his store. This can be as loose as an agreement to reserve a particular day of the week for PP activities or as strict as requiring sign off before events are advertised. Ultimately, this is ALWAYS the owner/managers say. Root cause = break down in communication.

3. There should be no pre-judging of new community members. The store owner/manager has 100% control over this practice. If he sees it happening, he needs to come down like a tons of bricks and stop it immediately. A welcoming community is a healthy community. Alienating new community members => shrinking community => store goes out of business. Root cause = poor community leadership.

All of the other nonsense about multiple Press Gangers and petty bickering between customers should really be a 5 minute conversation between owner/manager and customer. "This isn't how we do things here. If you want to continue to be welcome here, you'll follow our code of conduct." And you NEED to have a Code of Conduct posted. People who don't follow these rules WILL poison your community over time. Noone should ever feel unwelcome.

Impromptu Example Code of Conduct...
1. You will practice good hygiene.
2. You will say please and thank you and refrain from using foul language.
3. You will respect other people's things. Ask before touching.
4. You will understand and respect that some people are more competitive while others are only interested in background/painting.
5. You will ALWAYS be open and welcoming to new customers. Without new customers you will run out of opponents and the store will close.
6. etc, etc, etc

TL : DR ; - The store has crap leadership and crap flows downhill. Until management is replaced or improves, nothing will change.

Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com


https://www.thingiverse.com/KrisWall/about


Completed Trades With: ultraatma 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






nkelsch wrote:
I suspect "Bob" crimes are nothing more than attending multiple stores. In a gaming store turf war, the simple act of gaming at multiple stores is a crime punishable by 'social exclusion'

Store owners sees every dime spent elsewhere as an attack of them personally. They see people who buy elsewhere or game elsewhere as spies looking to steal customers. So they whip the loyal locals into a hate frenzy to root out those who do not declare complete loyalty to the local store.

So if Bob is a press ganger, his job is to basically support and promote Warmachine at multiple stores. If the FLGS in the area are at war with each other via customer turf battles, he will probably be despised by everyone he tries to interact with.

All you can do is avoid FLGS which turn into cults like this. Situations like this is why I became a gaming Nomad. I would rather drive 2 hours for a tourney to game and go home than to deal with politics. I got quality gaming at well-roganized events and avoided the pitfalls of 'open gaming' with social clicks.

FLGS are the only business that offer things at extreme prices and guilt you into buying from them out on loyalty when they offer nothing for that loyalty

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
nkelsch wrote:
I suspect "Bob" crimes are nothing more than attending multiple stores. In a gaming store turf war, the simple act of gaming at multiple stores is a crime punishable by 'social exclusion'

Store owners sees every dime spent elsewhere as an attack of them personally. They see people who buy elsewhere or game elsewhere as spies looking to steal customers. So they whip the loyal locals into a hate frenzy to root out those who do not declare complete loyalty to the local store.

So if Bob is a press ganger, his job is to basically support and promote Warmachine at multiple stores. If the FLGS in the area are at war with each other via customer turf battles, he will probably be despised by everyone he tries to interact with.

All you can do is avoid FLGS which turn into cults like this. Situations like this is why I became a gaming Nomad. I would rather drive 2 hours for a tourney to game and go home than to deal with politics. I got quality gaming at well-roganized events and avoided the pitfalls of 'open gaming' with social clicks.

FLGS are the only business that offer things at extreme prices and guilt you into buying from them out on loyalty when they offer nothing for that loyalty


No... you are wrong on that. Many of them do provide added value which people feel grossly entitled to and dismiss with 'I deserve more' attitudes.

It is rude to pimp competing businesses in someone else's store front, but it is unreasonable to pretend other stores don't exist. If someone plays at multiple locations the attitude should be 'what can I do to get you to spend/play here more?' opposed to 'you are a traitor, get out!'. Lots of stores are really good about this. In fact, smart stores will say "they are running a 40k tourney? We will then run a Warmachine tourney that weekend." Providing gaming space and well-run events (either by promoters or the store owner) is added value which they offer for that 'loyalty'. Online retailers can't provide a place to play or organize an event for you.

And when you have people who are affiliated with a company looking to promote a brand your store sells, you have to realize they are there to promote the brand everywhere, not just at your store. And a stronger brand is good for the retailers who sell it regardless if they promote it regionally or just at one store.

But sometimes, some 'non-customers' are toxic people and should be removed from a store. Not everyone 'run out' of a store is done so because the store is a click or the owner is bad. I can think of legitimate times when people have been legitimately asked to never return... often when they are a bragging non-customer, trying to actively harm the business through promoting online sales and competing businesses and generally anti-social behavior like "clubbing baby seals" which upset and deter growth of the community and sales.


My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA." 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Good god, this sounds like something that happens in primary school. How old are these store mouth breathers? Sounds like it's time to leave that bunch and take your custom elsewhere. Bob was right to take his terrain back. Report this Joe fool to PP.

If that place is being run like that, I can't see it surviving too long as it doesn't sound a very welcoming place. Wonder what these CPM's do if a respectable personage walks into 'their' store? Probably scare them off in some fashion - can't have the normals about making the place pleasant
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






nkelsch wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
nkelsch wrote:
I suspect "Bob" crimes are nothing more than attending multiple stores. In a gaming store turf war, the simple act of gaming at multiple stores is a crime punishable by 'social exclusion'

Store owners sees every dime spent elsewhere as an attack of them personally. They see people who buy elsewhere or game elsewhere as spies looking to steal customers. So they whip the loyal locals into a hate frenzy to root out those who do not declare complete loyalty to the local store.

So if Bob is a press ganger, his job is to basically support and promote Warmachine at multiple stores. If the FLGS in the area are at war with each other via customer turf battles, he will probably be despised by everyone he tries to interact with.

All you can do is avoid FLGS which turn into cults like this. Situations like this is why I became a gaming Nomad. I would rather drive 2 hours for a tourney to game and go home than to deal with politics. I got quality gaming at well-roganized events and avoided the pitfalls of 'open gaming' with social clicks.

FLGS are the only business that offer things at extreme prices and guilt you into buying from them out on loyalty when they offer nothing for that loyalty


No... you are wrong on that. Many of them do provide added value which people feel grossly entitled to and dismiss with 'I deserve more' attitudes.

It is rude to pimp competing businesses in someone else's store front, but it is unreasonable to pretend other stores don't exist. If someone plays at multiple locations the attitude should be 'what can I do to get you to spend/play here more?' opposed to 'you are a traitor, get out!'. Lots of stores are really good about this. In fact, smart stores will say "they are running a 40k tourney? We will then run a Warmachine tourney that weekend." Providing gaming space and well-run events (either by promoters or the store owner) is added value which they offer for that 'loyalty'. Online retailers can't provide a place to play or organize an event for you.

And when you have people who are affiliated with a company looking to promote a brand your store sells, you have to realize they are there to promote the brand everywhere, not just at your store. And a stronger brand is good for the retailers who sell it regardless if they promote it regionally or just at one store.

But sometimes, some 'non-customers' are toxic people and should be removed from a store. Not everyone 'run out' of a store is done so because the store is a click or the owner is bad. I can think of legitimate times when people have been legitimately asked to never return... often when they are a bragging non-customer, trying to actively harm the business through promoting online sales and competing businesses and generally anti-social behavior like "clubbing baby seals" which upset and deter growth of the community and sales.


How about no, what value do they add? Table?
The store across town offers the same, and on Fri compared to worse nights. Face it, game stores guilt trip you into buying from them.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: