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Hey folks, ive recently returned to 40k after about 15 years and have decided to start via the Ebay route so i bought a lot of crappy badly painted bits and bobs to strip for about £120 and have managed to salvage enough to put together a force exactly 2000pts strong. I guess im not posting this list for advice per say since its literally all the models i have and thus not really able to change much at the moment (have promised myself will not buy anything else till all this is painted), im just generally interested in peoples comments on the force, any tactical suggestions and suggestions for smaller forces (500/1000pts) i can make out of the available minis.

HQ
Librarian in Termi armor (Storm Bolter, Force Stave, Psyker Lv2)
Shadow Captain Shrike

Elites
7 Man Terminator Squad (Heavy Flamer)
Dreadnought (Assault Cannon + Powerfist)
Dreadnought (Twin Lascannons + Missle Launcher)

Troops
10 Man tactical Squad with Rhino + Dozer Blade (Missle Launcher, Flamer + Veteran Sarg)
7 Man Scout Sniper Squad (Missle Launcher + Camo Cloaks + Teleport Becon)

Fast Attack
7 Man Assault squad (2x Flamers + Veteran Sarge)
5 Man Bike Squad + Attack Bike (Multi Melta, Melta, Plasma + Veteran Sarge)
Land Speeder (Multi Melta, Heavy Bolter)

Heavy Support
10 Man Devastator Squad (Heavy Bolter, 2x Missle Launcher, Lascannon + Veteran Sarge)
Predator (Twin-linked Las Cannon, Side Heavy Bolters, Dozer Blade, Storm Bolter)
Whirlwind

This is exactly 2000pts, i realize its lacking in Aircraft or AA so my plan for now is if an opponent has aircraft i drop 1 Terminator and spend the 40 points giving all 4 Missile Launchers skyfire. I have several surplus minis that could be used building lists...

1x Space Marine Captain with Power Sword and Storm Bolter
1x Attack Bike with Heavy Bolter
1x Terminator with Assault cannon
1x Space Marine with Missile Launcher
1x Sargent with Plasma Pistol and Power Fist

I think you need to fix a list before you see your opponents really.
The devastator squad is large and the heavy bolter does not damage the targets the other weapons should be firing at. Consider moving some missile launchers into it and giving the HB to the tacticals. Similarly on the predator the HB will not suit the target the TL lascannon should be firing at.

I think you may need to drop the point value of the army down for the moment (1500pts to 1850MAx). Trim the terminators down to a 5 man squad. Trim some devastators out. Dozer blade and storm bolter off the predator if you can.

Overall you have some quick assault things, reasonable support and tacticals/scouts/dreads to fill any gaps, quite a nice balanced list.

Thanks for the suggestions, obvs im pretty stuck till im buying new minis so the full 2000list isn't very flexible. I could make the devastators 3 missiles and a Las Cannon tho and its not to late for the Predator to just have its autcannon on top.

I am very nieve about the rules at the moment, havent played in over 15 years, i have the 3 book rules set an need to sit and read it all before actually playing. My philosophy with the Predator and Devastator squads was to make them generalized, predator has a bit of anti tank and a bit of anti infantry same with Devastators. My thinking is that they should be able have an answer for anything put on the table.

For small point games i like the idea of havin a full devestator squad with razorback (in future when i buy a razorback!), splitting it and using the 5 normal marines as an escort for HQ in razorback.



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There is still some room for light conversions or weapon swaps, i have made a post detailing whats been painted so far here and wouldn't mind bending my no buying stuff rule slightly for some simple conversion options if you have any solid suggestions. I have 4 missile launchers in total but one of them already has tactical squad painting, but i could go back and alter him then make the devastator squad 4x missile launcher then give the heavy bolter/Lascannon to the tactical squad?

My primary enemy will be Eldar for the time being as my friend who is also returning to the hobby is collecting those but id like to have a list able to take down to a game club and play random games with while i learn the rules ect.

What I did find effective when I played marines was putting a TL lascannon onto a razor back and pairing it with either a dreadnought or a dakka-predator (Autocannon + Heavy bolters). The predator gets deployed loud and proud and the razor back off to one side but pointing at the big hard thing I wanted to destroy (usually a tank or in your case your mates waveserpent, he will have one or two!). The predator tends to soak up shots and the razor back is often forgotten about.

You can put a lascannon and plasmagun into a tactical squad, and given them a razorback. Split the tactical into combat squads giving you a shooty one and a plain one with the sergeant. Then you equip the razor back to either sit back or rush forward with the sergs half of the squad.

Some good thoughts, im very weary of plasma guns as i dont like the sound of the self wounding rule on them. GeeDubs love a good d6 chance of sudden death in most games lol so i fear such things, if i could hack the plasma of the biker and give him my 1 melta gun (i have a laughable little bits box) i would. Am i being foolish about Plasma weapons? like i said before i haven't really studied the new rules properly yet so im making quite a few assumptions.

I understand that the devastator squad can only fire at one target so mebe mixing the weapon types not so good but i was under the impression vehicles could split fire. Cant the predator use its TL for tanks and HBs for infantry or am i mistaken?

You made me lol a bit, im very vague about the eldar army list still (something else i need to read before i play) but my m8 has been muttering "I need wave serpents!" a lot lately.

Can't split fire but you can combat squad the devs to get the equivalent effect. If I remember correctly even an option to increase the BS of a guy shooting (IE lascannon) so splitting them into 2 squads would hopefully stop any extra damage going to waste

When they over heat you get to make a standard save. So if you are rapid firing each turn you will overheat 1 or 2 times a game. You are probably going to pass a 3+ save one of those times.
If some unsporting soul drops some terminators next to you then the AP2 is awesome, it may even convince them to go elsewhere. Against elder it gives you 24" range for S7 you probably don't need AP2 against Eldar but the other assault weapons options don't have as good a range.
I didn't think vehicle cans split fire.
The waveserpent thing is they can reduce penetrating hits to glancing hits if they have their shield in place (front and side hits), they can jink to give themselves an cover save, or they can fire the shield which gives them up to 6 S7 hits and the range is ridicules.
The way to deal with them is to drop something in behind them and get the rear armour. Or get them to turn to face something and pop the rear armour (hidden razorback) the wave attack is hull mounted so they need to turn to face to use it. You have 4 squads which can infiltrate/teleport/deepstrike behind and the bikes to turbo boos past them in the first turn so you should be able to deal with a few of them.
You need to check out the elder blade storm rule - ouch

Ouch i thought Wave Serpents were just transports, he apparently can use jump packs, shoot then use jump packs again to get back into cover which sounds irritating. Cant remember the rule name now but we were wondering if the same rule could let him jump out of transport, shoot then run back in.

I could be wrong (and probably am) but im fairly sure vehicles can fire at whatever they like with each gun so long as its in the arc.

Eldar can run before or after they shoot. So it is advance, shoot, then run behind cover. Most of the elder can do it (waith chaps can not).
I think it is called battle focus but my codex is at home. You can not run into transport.

All armies have the potential to shoot with the troops and then "run" their transport or another vehicle in front of them to take them out of LoS.

Vehicle turrets can fire all around, sponsons can fire 180 degrees to one side (so if you want to fire both at the same target you must be facing it); some people will say that if the bit of the model can not turn through 180 degrees then it can not do this but they are being awkward. Hull mounted weapons have a 90 degree fire arc to the front. If you can draw a line from the weapon to something you can shoot it. If the line goes through another unit then the thing you are shooting gets a cover save.

My favourite elder thing is a striking scorpion exarch with a power claw. It is only S6 but it strikes at the exarchs initiative, so it can easily mess up terminators or characters in challenges.

Yeh thats the rule we were talking about, we wernt sure about transports but i was doubtful.

I understand the firing arcs, what i mean is i thought each weapon on a vehicle could independently target whatever it wants. Both side guns can shoot things in their 180 arc and the Lascannon can shoot something else in its 180 arc. If im mistaken about that it seems counter intuitive, the left and right sponsons are designed to shoot separate things lol.


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In the future if i start expanding my force what i want is lots and lots of drop pods and lots and lots of scouts. The combination of scout bikers with homing beacons and the SMs first turn drop pod strike seems pretty hardcore.

In general you want each unit to do one thing well. It’s OK to have a little flexibility, after all, that’s one of the hallmarks of Space Marines. But you don’t want to dilute a unit so bad that it can’t fulfill it’s primary role.

Your HQ picks are fine. Looking at the spare, power sword/storm bolter is not a particularly good option. If you counts-as the sword as a relic blade, he could be a little more viable.

I like my terminators with an assault cannon, rather then the HF. The flamer is a nice budget option though. If you do move towards drop pod/locator beacons, it can do some nasty things with precision drops. Dreads are fine as-is.

In a 2k list I’d like to see more troops. That might just be my old school mindset showing though though. ML/F is a classic, albeit unfocussed build. I’ve been putting a MM/M c-melta on the sarge tac squad in more lists then my ML/F one.

Flamers on AMs is the way to go. Might want to get a power weapon on the sarge. My bikes started out in the same configuration. When I expanded my collection, I split them into a melta squad and a plasma/grav squad. Bikes are quite strong in this edition. Getting a captain/CM on a bike to move them to troops can be fun, but requires more minis. The MM/HF on the speeder is a little odd. These days fast skimmers can move 12” and fire both guns at the same target. Those guns don’t like shooting the same things, and want to be at different ranges. I like a TML/HB speeder to hang back and shoot. MM/HF is the classic tornado pattern, and even if the guns don’t want to shoot at the same thing, at least they both want to be close in.

With the minis you have, I’d run 3xML, LC for the dev squad. You don’t want to mix the HB and LC, as they have nothing in common. If you want to use HB, tac squads are a better place for them, or use your dev squad for anti infantry work. With what you have in your collection though, I think you need more anti tank fire, so your dev squad should reflect that. On the pred you are once again going with guns that don’t want to shoot at the same thing. I like an autocannon/lascannon sponson tank, although the price on the TLLC turret is reasonable these days. If the HBs are fixed already, the AC is a much better match. And only super heavy tanks can fire each weapon at a separate target. So the pred needs to keep kinda focused. The whirlwind is overshadowed by the newer thunderfire cannon, but that doesn’t make it a bad tank. It can still toss pie plates around to kill troops, and the point cost to field it is low.

Thanks for the advice m8 i appreciate you taking the time.

I love Assault Cannons on my terminators as well but in this list they gonna be my Deep strikers with the Librarian and thought flamer more suited to this. I had not considered Combi M + Melta for tac squad but sounds good and will bear in mind for future, for now tho i might just be able to wrangle 1 more dude with a melta gun to give the tact squad some flexibility.

Im thinking that maybe ill repaint the shoulder of the tac squad ML and use the extra one to make devastator squad 4x ML and then ill give the HB and LC Tac squad trim and use them as optional's for my tac squad. That way the dev squad is more focused and i can fit the tac squad a little to fit enemy with Melta/Flamer option and HB/LC option. I would like to give the Land Speeder 2x Melta guns and use it as a deep striker also but alas i dont have the parts for that to give it 2x HB or 2x MM would require sacrificing one of the Attack Bikes so its HB+MM or just one of either.

5 of the assault marines are still new and on spru, almost the only new minis in my lil collection so i can equip them still however i like. If i manage to finish this lot and start to expand (I have a 5000pt dream army list id love to build one day) i probably wont use bikes at all tbh. The force would have a strong contingent of scouts for Raven Guardy thematic reasons and i love idea of a large drop pod assault and Scout bikes with beacons.

This news about tanks only being able to fire at a single target annoys me :(, already pissed that tac squad cant seperatly fire its heavy tbh it makes no sense. The point of a heavy weapon in an infantry squad is to deal with hard targets while rest pin enemy down.

Try not to let reality influence your thoughts too much; that way lies madness. At least these days the bolter marines shuffling around doesn’t make the heavy gunner count as having moved. Some people are even leaving the heavy on the shelf for tac squads, as they don’t want to pay points for something that’s going to be snapfiring or shooting at poor targets. I’m an Ultramarine, so am old fashionedly still fielding mine, but it’s something to consider. LCs on tacs call for combat squadding and leaving the cannon and 4 guys sitting in the backfield. The HB can freely move up with the squad. It wants to be shooting the same sort of thing as the rest of the unit. You won’t necesarily be moving every turn, and the extra strength and range can be handy.

Having a combi weapon on the sarge that matches the squad special is one thing that gets brought up often when talking about how to gear tac squads. You will often find them stepping out of a rhino/drop pod and getting one good shot in, and you want to make that count. The combi lets the squad be better for your one good hit, hopefully crippling your target.

I like MLs because they are traditional, but they are lackluster in pretty much every role. They can work, but you are often better off with specialist units. I find myself phasing them out of my lists. Still, they can get the job done, and can attempt to do most everything.

I hear you on the speeder. Sometime we field what we have. It’s not an optimal load, but should be able to do something. It’s just a single HB is not going to do much. Mathematically, a singe MM isn’t going to do much either, but you have to respect it a lot more. While a HB is going to pop a few troops on a good day, the MM can, with some moderate luck, turn a 250+ point armored behemoth into slag. Just having it on the table says to your opponent “This 24” bubble is dangerous terrain, enter at your own peril” Sure, you miss 1/3 of the time, and can flub the pen roll or damage chart, but you might not. And that demands attention.

Consider magnets to future proof your list, if you are building new stuff.

Urgh, well i guess its less work for me as was gonna take a bit of work to put the TLLC on the predator. Shame i only have 1x Lascannon side sponson for the pred or could make it a full LC tank destroyer.

As a rule i like MLs because they are versatile, they OK at anti infantry and OK at anti tank and seemingly now they can be OK at anti air aswell for another 10 points. If i have an anti air upgrade on ML do i really have to fire the entire bloody squad at the aircraft? its crazy.

Given the choice of either just a HB, MM or one of each one of each surly better tho?

And believe me m8 ill magnetize the crap out of everything if i buy new, already got a load of magnets to embed in the bases so i can use a baking try for transport