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Hello, I'm in a league at my work aka the local game store and I can't win here is my list of what I have:

Sorcha 2
Yuri
Butcher 3
Vlad 2
Manhunter
Iron Fangs w/ Kovnik
Winter Guard w/ UA
Kovnik Joe
Behemoth
Spriggin
Dev/Demolisher
Widow Makers
Holt & (w/e her name is)
War Dog

I've only played 5 games and done reasonably well in two of those.

Before we can help you, it would help to have some more information. What lists/factions are giving you trouble? What is causing you to lose? What do your normal lists look like?

This game has a very very steep learning curve. It will take a long time for you to get the hang of the game. The saying for WMH is "be prepared to lose your first 50 games" and its not hyperbole, its an experience intensive game and till you accumulate it it will be tough.

Its also very important to know at least general information about the other factions in the game. You need to know your enemy if you want to take him down.

I can't really remember my lists I was just wondering if you could make anything interesting out of what I have here.

I'm afraid just giving you a list isn't going to fix whatever problems you may be having. This isn't 40k where you can netlist your way to a decent win %.

I would love to help, as I feel many other people would but who haven't posted, but you aren't doing a good job of helping us help you.

I could just give you a list, but without practical experience or knowledge of how it works its not going to be much good to you. Give us something to work with here beyond a list of models.

SMC. Nothing teaches better than experience.

You have some solid units. I suggest you play some 35 & 50 point matches.

I play khador, and I find that if you get the first strike, it is very beneficial. That said, khador is slow, so I usually take the first strike as opposed to giving it.

High armor makes your jacks pretty solid, and you will find that your caster will manipulate how you should play your army.



.

Practice. The learning curve for this game is such that you aren't going to be winning reliably for a while; pick a list, get some set of interactions you like, and stick to it until you know exactly what's going on and how everything fits together. Resist the temptation to buy more stuff and tweak the list, you're not scared of the man who's played ten thousand army lists once, you're scared of the man who's played one army list ten thousand times. Learn the numbers, know when to boost and not to boost, learn enough to read the situation a turn ahead if you can. Above all ask the other guy "what does that guy do?" before you do stuff, if you're surprised you will die. This is a game of perfect information, everyone is allowed to know everything ahead of time and if they don't they're entitled to ask for the cards.

If you tell us more about your meta and more about how your games went we could give you more specific advice, but absent that you get basic high-level generic remarks and an applicable butchered Bruce Lee quote.

 SMC wrote:
Hello, I'm in a league at my work aka the local game store and I can't win here is my list of what I have:

Sorcha 2
Yuri
Butcher 3
Vlad 2
Manhunter
Iron Fangs w/ Kovnik
Winter Guard w/ UA
Kovnik Joe
Behemoth
Spriggin
Dev/Demolisher
Widow Makers
Holt & (w/e her name is)
War Dog

I've only played 5 games and done reasonably well in two of those.

Bolded bit for emphasis. Five games in, and you're worried about not being able to win? Your first twenty+ games should be about learning, winning/losing is a distant second. This isn't a game where you download a list, and you start winning. How you play matters. Essentially, experience and knowledge are key. Learn your army. Learn your opponents. Crucially - Play lots of games. It's then that things start to click.

Your list of stuff is fine. Vlad2, butcher3 and sorscha 2 are all excellent casters. Same with your units - you can't go wrong with the winter guard, pikemen and widowmakers. A+h offer great support. In terms of jacks - you've got all the big names. Big b, clam jack, spriggan. Solid stable right there.

What kind of lists do you usually run? Remember - khador is an infantry faction - running a wall of armour is a mistake a lot of new players make.

In general, don't be afraid to talk to your opponents and ask them what they would have done differently after each game. Ask them how their army works, and what scary combos it can pull off. Then look at your own list, assess what scary stuff it can do, and which bits of your list you want to employ against which bits of their list. Most of the skill and learning curve of Warmachine comes from awareness of what models can do, and how you can combine those things.

Out of what you've got, here are some suggested synergies and tactics:

--In general, Khador casters don't want to run more than one or maybe two jacks, because they can't spare the focus. The Behemoth and Spriggan are two of the better ones--the Spriggan is tough and can put out a lot of damage on the charge, and you can also pull off tricks with Bulldoze, to shove people out of zones, or out of the way of something you need to free up. Also, the flares will make it much easier for your Widowmakers to clear out annoying Stealth or Camoflage units. The Behemoth can do a bit of everything--the blasts can scatter light infantry, and the fists can wreck most things in close combat.

--The Winterguard with Sorscha2 and Joe can be terrifying. Put Iron Flesh on them and use their Bob & Weave order, and they'll be untouchable to most attacks--and with Joe, you can boost every attack on their sprays, which will massacre infantry, while ignoring Stealth, cover and concealment. The things they need to be wary of are units which can really pump up their MAT (off the top of my head, Trolls can fairly easily get MAT 11 Kriel Warriors), and AOE damage--even if they miss, the blasts can still kill WG they scatter over. Check which things have AOE's, and try to keep them in dispersed formation.

--Aiyana & Holt also synergise well with most casters, but they get on really well with Sorscha2's feat. If she uses Kiss of Lyliss on a hard target during the feat turn, that's an effective +4 damage on every hit against it. This combo is also known as "Where did my colossal go?"

--Sorscha2 also has a very good assassination run. Cyclone is a great spell for mobility, and it can be used to get you into the perfect charge position.

--Butcher-3 is, essentially, the ultimate assassin. When running him, think of your army as being ablative armour used to get Butcher into a game-ending position. He also has a lot of board control simply because your opponent won't want to get anywhere near him. There are a host of tricks you can play with his feat and his movement spells. For example: charge a friendly model, Energiser forward, and then Impending Doom + Flashing Blade + Feat to destroy the front line or a high value target (a colossal or multiple warbeasts). Silence of Death is priceless against Hordes armies, because it stops beasts being healed, and warlocks from shunting damage. A common cause of death for Butcher-3 is that he wreaks havoc and then gets counter-punched, so rather than going all-in, consider using the feat to keep yourself safe after the rampage. Also, he needs to watch out for enemies that mess with his spellcasting, such as Druids of Orboros, the Covenant of Menoth, or Orin Midwinter.

--I don't know much about Vlad-2, but I do know that he likes beefy solos with already impressive stats, that his feat and Transference will turn into unholy monsters. The IF UA, IF Kovnik or Manhunter is a good choice, but he also likes Kayazy Eliminators, or the Drakhun. Hand of Fate & Transference also synergise very well with the Pikemen, as boosting their attacks will up your odds of knocking down a crucial model.

--The War Dog is a strong contender for best 1pt solo in the game. Remember Counter Charge, as that can sometimes really mess up an opponent who was executing a plan to get to your warcaster.

--Identifying threats doesn't help much if you can't get to them, and that's where the Manhunters come in. They make an excellent unit to run up the side, and threaten the support models of your enemies in the second or third turns. Or you could simply sacrifice them to jam up a dangerous model for a turn.

--Widowmakers are all-around useful. They excel against infantry with high armour and one wound, such as Forge Guard, Knights Exemplar, or enemy Iron Fangs. Just get them into a patch of cover or concealment, and let them do their thing. Keep track of how damaged enemy jacks and beasts are too, because sometimes they can be used to precisely cripple a system or aspect on one that's already taken a beating.

So! With the proviso that I don't play Khador, here's what I'd run with and some suggestions on how to use it:



Hope I didn't swamp you with information there. If you post some more details about the games you've had, we can provide more detailed advice.

Best advice? Play. Play, play, play. As others have noted, the learning curve is very steep in this game. Don't get discouraged.

Most new players I know don't win a "real" game until about 10+ games in. I say "real" as in playing someone that has no/some experience in the game.

Don't make drastic changes in your list from game to game. Play the same list as much as possible at first. Figure out what works and doesn't, and realize that sometimes, there are just some bad army match ups.

Good luck! And remember to have fun!

Keep playing, get as many games in as you can. Play more experience players then you and ask for feedback during and after the game. I did not win for a long time against the more experienced players, then one day it all seemed to just click. This game has a high learning curve and the only way to get better is to play. Keep plugging way at it and one day it's just going to click for you. Took me almost a year before things started to make sense in the game and there are many things I still struggle against.

Best advice for a fellow Khador player? Easy.

Apply axe to face, rinse, repeat. And keeprrepeating until everything else stops moving.

Joking aside, what has been stated "Play Mo' Games". Is the best advice that can be given, you have a solid stable of models. Learning how to best utilize what you own and your play style is going to be the best thing you can do. There is a very steep learning curve to this game, and it will come gradually.

This game has a very very steep learning curve. It will take a long time for you to get the hang of the game. The saying for WMH is "be prepared to lose your first 50 games" and its not hyperbole, its an experience intensive game and till you accumulate it it will be tough.

I believe that you can get "transferable skills" from having played other tactical games. If you're good at 40k/ FoW/ WFb etc you'll have an advantage over a complete noob. But, is definitely easy to fall for some quick losses early on.

This isn't 40k where you can netlist your way to a decent win %.

Gameplay definitely matters more in WMH than 40k, but netlisting is still important. Good news is that all of your picks are good.
That said, I think that Butcher 3 is the strongest of the 3 casters. He can kill literally anything in the game and can seal the deal by himself, even if the rest of your army is dead. Rather than fix Khador's medium infantry to be useful so can play okay vs. infantry hate, PP gave Khador Butch3 instead.

Use him as an area denial piece. Used properly the opponent will be unable to concentrate his forces for fear that Butch3 will charge forwards, impending doom, flashing blade a few times and kill 15+ points in a turn. Thus he indrectly supports your army through sheer fear factor.

Even if the enemy has anti magic tech, he's still a MAT9 POW16 weaponmaster with up to 13 attacks in a turn, so you're not utterly screwed vs. that.

I'd go Butch3 -4
Wardog
Full Winterguard with all attachments
Kovnik Joe
Demolisher
Aiyana & Holt
Iron Fangs + UA + solo

Might be a few more points to play with, but is a terrifying list to face.


Gaz

Warmachine.. you will start off by losing alot..

Main thing is! Did you learn from each loss ? Every loss.. for a new player you should learn something.

Knowing what your enemy can do.. is just as important as knowing what your own army does in this game.

I suggest getting War Room + All the faction cards and start reading. The more you read. the more you know your enemy.

I would NOT start with Butch3. IMHO Butch1 is much better for a beginner.

Just play more games

Sorry, but playing more games is the only way to get better. You'll learn first hand what your own units can do, what the enemies can do and the effectiveness of attacks and special abilities. Little of that can be taught. It has to be learned by doing.
I've been playing a year and I just broke above a 50/50 win record.

 SMC wrote:
Hello, I'm in a league at my work aka the local game store and I can't win here is my list of what I have:

Sorcha 2
Yuri
Butcher 3
Vlad 2
Manhunter
Iron Fangs w/ Kovnik
Winter Guard w/ UA
Kovnik Joe
Behemoth
Spriggin
Dev/Demolisher
Widow Makers
Holt & (w/e her name is)
War Dog

I've only played 5 games and done reasonably well in two of those.

I'm by no means a pro, but I know khador pretty well. Here's how I'd look into that.

>Hmmm, which caster?

Sorcha 2 - 6 FOC, so you won't be running many khador jacks. They're usually very focus hungry. Her bond is great with melee jacks getting into the thick of things, so you'll want something melee focused to make use of that. She's got special abilities that help out winter guard, so remember that. Her spell list included iron flesh, which is amazing when used correctly. So you're going to want infantry. Shatter storm is also handy when used correctly. So in short, she's an infantry caster that can support 1 jack very well. You might could go to two, but that would hurt you in other areas, so stick with one. A melee one specifically to make use of that bond.

Feat - Game winningly powerful. Make sure you're in position to deliver high POW strikes. I've obliterated colossals with a single spriggan after popping that feat.

Butcher 3 - Absolutely nightmarish when he gets into melee. He doesn't do a whole lot for jacks, less so for infantry (well, it's situational if anything). So, with that in mind, you want butcher up front, getting his murder on. You're going to want units that are as self sufficient as possible, as Butcher will be too busy keeping himself efficient.

Feat - Cranks the violence up to 11. Use it when you're ready to murder everything within 5", especially casters. Also remember that secondary effect of autofailing command checks.

Vlad 2 - Competent in melee, especially when his self buffs start happening. Can make a Jack move faster (always a good thing for khador), and can buff warrior models (important to remember the warrior part) in a few ways. Fairly balanced approach, but again you'll want to avoid going Jack heavy. He can support 1 jack very well.

Feat - Makes a small amount of warrior models a bit more elite in almost every way. Key words is warrior and non character.

>Attachments

War dog - Makes a caster better in melee. Useful with butcher and vlad, wouldn't recommend with sorcha unless you have a point sitting around.

>Jacks

Behemoth - Personally, I've always found Big B to be a melee jack with strong ranged output. Extremely focus hungry, but those fists can annihilate medium and larger based models. Be sure to understand how the sub cortex works.

Spriggin - Very solid melee jack with ranged utility. Fits well in 9 out of 10 lists. Remember that it has reach, and reach is incredibly useful.

Dev/Demolisher - Weak melee ability, and the same for ranged. If you do choose to attack, it becomes much much more killable. Use it to contest zones with that crazy good armor. Of the two, personally I prefer the Dev because almost always I've got people trying to punch the thing to death instead of shooting it. Rain of death just works more often for me than a meh ranged attack with a horrific RAT.


>Units

Iron Fangs - Solid, tough meatshields. Combined melee attack and crit knockdown allow them to really bring the pain. One of khadors top infantry choices.

Winter Guard w/ UA - The other top infantry choice for khador. If you're caster has the iron flesh spell, you almost always want to field winter guard. Iron flesh + Bob and weave = Def 18. They require serious resource investment to deal with. Combined ranged attack makes them a threat against just about anything. Grapeshot makes them a threat against tightly packed light infantry. Make sure to spend time getting used to their rules and positioning them correctly. Also bob and weave is an order. That is important to remember.

Widow Makers - Nothing too special about them. Long ranged unit that can plink health off anything they can hit. As they have a decent RAT, they tend to usually hit. Amazing against single wound infantry hiding behind a high ARM.

Holt & (w/e her name is) - Eh. I never got much mileage out of them. Good against cryx as they give a unit magical weapons.

>Solos

Iron fang Kovnik - Just because he's iron fang doesn't mean you have to take him with pikemen. By himself, he can deliver a really powerful attack on the charge. Also important is he gives units that can shield wall the shield march order, getting them up the field even faster. Pikemen, Kommandos, Man-o-war, anything with shield wall.

Kovnik Joe - You're taking winter guard? Take Joe. He's so useful with his buffs he's practically mandatory.

Yuri - Fire and forget missile almost. Send him into a unit of infantry, thresh away, hope he does enough damage to justify his cost. Also buffs Kossites.

Manhunter - Downgraded form of Yuri, sort of. Fire and forget missile, but better at attacking a single target as opposed to a mob.

I could give you lists, but it wouldn't matter because you wouldn't immediately get the synergies and how things work. Hope this blob of text helps out!