Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am having an internal Struggle at the moment.... This is my way to vent and to allow people to weigh in if they so choose.

I am having a problem with the current releases, that GW is printing. I want to hold my overall Judgement on the Eldar release until it is realeased, However, with the pictures that have been released, I'm of opinion that the the game i have enjoyed for these last 15+ years is starting to get out of hand.

While I understand, 40k is not really design for competitive play in Tournaments, the idea of a Tournament list with things that are being suggested with the Eldar, make me sick.

I love the History, and Painting the models, however the game now is becoming as a recent opponent of my stated "the person with the most money, or who can buy the best stuff, generally wins"
If i decide to stay in the tournament scene, I need to find an army which appeals to me. I tried DraigoStar.... Too Random. I am currently playing a Thunderwolf army in a local league, but am findinf it very 1 dimensional, and not very fun.

Why Question to the Group: I understand an Army is verhy personal, each army must match the players style. However I am also interested in playing something that nobody around here plays. Tzeentch Daemonkin would be my preferred with New Thousand Sons, but that is all rumor atm. What other army do people suggest?

I am also finding it difficult to get into painting, hence my issue.

I'm very serious about wanting opinions.... I don't want to be a Bandwagoner with the Eldar. I feel lost when it comes to 40k.... please help!

30K

Hmm maybe you should look into the FFG RPG games based on the 40k IP. That might help you scratch your itch for getting more out of the 40k story. You can collect whatever minis you want to use in your campaigns, which is a great excuse to get a few deamons.

I'm also going to say 30K a.k.a. Forge World's Horus Heresy. All you really need is either or both red books for the army list and if applicable Legion of choice and you're good to go.

umbroca7 wrote:
I love the History, and Painting the models, however the game now is becoming as a recent opponent of my stated "the person with the most money, or who can buy the best stuff, generally wins"
If i decide to stay in the tournament scene, I need to find an army which appeals to me. I tried DraigoStar.... Too Random. I am currently playing a Thunderwolf army in a local league, but am findinf it very 1 dimensional, and not very fun.

It's been said a lot, but it's worth repeating. Do what you enjoy. Tournament gaming turns up third in your list, and that seems to be where your frustration lies.

If you like the history and background, read that. Paint the models you like. Just reconnect with what you like doing, or explore a new angle. Perhaps a new army. Maybe a new game. You could try some more roleplay-focussed cooperative gaming, if your buddies are up for it.

Why Question to the Group: I understand an Army is verhy personal, each army must match the players style. However I am also interested in playing something that nobody around here plays. Tzeentch Daemonkin would be my preferred with New Thousand Sons, but that is all rumor atm. What other army do people suggest?

My advice would be to take a step back from tournament gaming for a bit – maybe a month, maybe two. Perhaps a year. Perhaps forever.
Paint up a single tzeentch models. See if it leaves you wanting to paint another.

Breathe out. Relax. Enjoy.

There's no rush

Get out of the GW ecosphere. Take your first steps into a larger, better world.

 Riquende wrote:
Get out of the GW ecosphere. Take your first steps into a larger, better world.

This, if you like tournament gaming there are better tournament games.

If you like casual gaming, there are better casual games too.

If you want to stick with the game because of background and minis, as the guys above have said look at 30k or find a gaming group that feels the same way as you do.

Otherwise, spread your wings and there is a whole world of wargaming out there, browse a bit further down on the Dakka main page or take a look at this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369662.page

 Zuul wrote:
30K

Lol that is probably the best option to stay in this game. Marines vs. Marines is more balenced.

I feel your frustration man, I was where you are at the end of 5th start of 6th ED.

I stepped out of the GW light and found other games. Things I never even considered playing till that point.

Believe me when I say its a much better gaming world outside the GW sphere.

That's not to say you should sell all of your GW stuff drive to Nottingham with pitchfork in hand and rage, but try other games see what scratches that competitive itch,

Herzlos wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
Get out of the GW ecosphere. Take your first steps into a larger, better world.

This, if you like tournament gaming there are better tournament games.

If you like casual gaming, there are better casual games too.

Bolt Action, Warmachines and Hordes and Deadzone to name a few.

I'm quite liking the tournament scene here for Malifaux and Flames Of War. Both really clear and balanced rulesets without any majorly abused flaws.

Solutions:

New Game: Look around for new games, Infinity, Drop Zone Commander, Flames of War, Malifaux. To name a few. I highly suggest Warmachine, by privateer Press.

New Rules: 30k? I am going to research this.

Avoid Tourneys: As others have stated, Avoid Tourneys. Play casually or enjoy the painting / lore

Special Tourneys: I'm not too informed on this, but I know there are a few tourneys out there that limit certain things, and try to un-bork the whole game. Do some research, maybe there's a Tourney out there that feels more balanced for you?

Play Anyway: Pick an army you like, play it for the challenge. Okay, so an All Eldar Bike army is your opponent. Set a goal of destroying so many, or surviving so many turns. Make the game fun for you in a different way.

Go with the Flow: Spend the money to win that tourney, Earn the ire of all the other players as you drop $5,000 worth of unpainted models that exploit one line of text in the rulebook. (not suggested.)

That's about all I can think of!

I've always wanted a Saim Hann Jet Bike army, but the old JBs are turd so I never bothered.

Now they look awesome and despite all my pishing and moaning to the contrary there's a very good chance I'll buy the new codex and 7th ed rulebook and get a Saim Hann Jet Bike army.

I'll never play at a tourney, but don't assume just because someone has new stuff or a list that you don't like is WAAC donkey cave out to make you wet your pants with rage.

play a different game. 40k is just such a bad game when it comes to tournament play or pick up games. Just do yourself a favor and play better games with well written rules. Dont settle for less

This is what I don't understand. You say "person with the most money wins". This has been like this for the past 10 years if not more.

So since you were playing for 15 years you are already use to this, this should be nothing new. There has to be something else than the "person with the most money wins."

So I really can't comment on what you should do since we don't have the full picture. If it was really "person with the most money wins" you would have quit 10 years ago. Nothing is really different from now and 10 or 15 years ago.

People always played Flavour of the month armies back then just like they do now.

So what else is bothering you?

 Apologist wrote:

It's been said a lot, but it's worth repeating. Do what you enjoy.

I'd figure out which is the more enjoyable part for you. Do you want to keep playing with the Eldar, or do you want to play competitively, or do you want to paint, or do you want to explore the 40k world, or is there something else entirely that you find most fun about 40k?

Figuring out what is the most fun part for you might help make the decision a little easier.

For example, if exploring the 40k world is the most important chunk then I'd say 30k or messing with another army are both good options.

If playing competitively is the most important part for you then it might be time to dip your toes into the waters of another gaming system. Trying an entirely different system is a good option (like Vanguard-13 said, Warmachine/Hordes is a great competitive system).

Also you can take a different rules system and apply it to 40k and that can fix some of your concerns. I haven't tried it personally but I know several folks have had fun with https://onepagerules.wordpress.com/portfolio/one-page-40k/

Edit: fixed quote

40K is not designed for tournaments. GW has repeatedly said this yet people still keep trying then get frustrated that it doesn't work. Boggles my mind. There are better games for competitive tournament play, if that is what you enjoy then you should pick another game.

However, tournament play in many games is pay to win. That is the nature of tournaments. If that bothers you play chess.

15 years? Out of hand? Too random? One-dimensional?

Small mystery. You're just growing out of the whizz-bang uber-killy list-buildy line-up-and-shoot playstyle that appeals to kids (of various sizes).

I'm another who'll tell you to look at other games, though as Pacific says you don't have to abandon your mini collection and the 40K background if you don't want to. There are other sci-fi ~platoon-size games out there that you can slot eldar, space wolves etc. into. Some are even designed to slot in what minis you like. The compromise is that unit entries can be a little generic and streamlined; but as I mentioned in another recent topic, most of the 'flavour' of GW rules boils down to the fluff that's written beside them. Otherwise, the great mass of 40K special, unit- or character-specific rules can be a great millstone and speedbump. Alternate rulesets are often much more focused on tactical decisions and army coordination than on what you bought, what wargear you gave it, and how many rerolls it gets.
The other caveat is that you could go from finding a 40K opponent under every rock to having to hunt a bit longer and stick with a smaller group. Tournies are probably right out if you choose this route. But like people say, the sheer reinjection of fun and enjoyment into your hobby could make up for it and then some. And judging by your opponent's comment, you might already have some local 40K gamers ready to go beyond GW and try something else. Being able to do it cheaply, with the same models and familiar background, could let you try out a few different games to see what floats your boat.

Examples: Surprised no-one mentioned Mantic's Warpath rules yet. Usually brought up in these situations and as a free download, they won't cost much to check out. Me, I usually point at Victory Decision: Future Command. Chock full of the kind of tactical stuff I like, and the author regularly posts at the Lead Adventure Forum (the game even has it's own wee sub-board there) for a bit of brain-picking. Others include 5150, Tomorrow's War, Stargrunt... Probably one or two others I've forgotten.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

We wrote:
40K is not designed for tournaments. GW has repeatedly said this yet people still keep trying then get frustrated that it doesn't work. Boggles my mind.

What boggles my mind is people who just up and accept this as an excuse for cruddy rules.

umbroca7 wrote:
I am having an internal Struggle at the moment.... This is my way to vent and to allow people to weigh in if they so choose.

I am having a problem with the current releases, that GW is printing. I want to hold my overall Judgement on the Eldar release until it is realeased, However, with the pictures that have been released, I'm of opinion that the the game i have enjoyed for these last 15+ years is starting to get out of hand.

While I understand, 40k is not really design for competitive play in Tournaments, the idea of a Tournament list with things that are being suggested with the Eldar, make me sick.

I love the History, and Painting the models, however the game now is becoming as a recent opponent of my stated "the person with the most money, or who can buy the best stuff, generally wins"
If i decide to stay in the tournament scene, I need to find an army which appeals to me. I tried DraigoStar.... Too Random. I am currently playing a Thunderwolf army in a local league, but am findinf it very 1 dimensional, and not very fun.

Why Question to the Group: I understand an Army is verhy personal, each army must match the players style. However I am also interested in playing something that nobody around here plays. Tzeentch Daemonkin would be my preferred with New Thousand Sons, but that is all rumor atm. What other army do people suggest?

I am also finding it difficult to get into painting, hence my issue.

I'm very serious about wanting opinions.... I don't want to be a Bandwagoner with the Eldar. I feel lost when it comes to 40k.... please help!

Your just coming to this conclusion now?


oh, man....

I can't believe I didn't mention Mantic's Warpath earlier. I've even got some enforcers sitting on my desk right now.

Play my friend and regular opponent.

After facing: Primarch spam (He has 6 primarchs now, plus two homebrewed ones), OP home brewed characters (level 4 psykers with 2+/3++) units (BS5 specialist ammunition using artificer armoured 3++ invun and immune to flamers) primarchs (Legion of the damned - dont ask) formations (5 level 2-4/5 psykers deep striking in, all with 2+/5++/4++/3++) and armies (Legion of the damned: Terminators with 3++ and flaming projectiles, Devastators with 3++ and flaming projectiles, tanks and dreads with a 3++ and flaming projectiles, etc. All deepstriking and all bought for the same points values as regular units) you will no longer see GW codexe's as over powered

(Then have him bitching that Imperial Guard tanks are over powered and should be banned from the game. I ended up telling him that I would no longer play him if he kept trying to ban them from the field.)

But yeah, OP, you try going through that. Then tell me GW's 'dexes are bad.

umbroca7 wrote:
Thunderwolf army in a local league, but am findinf it very 1 dimensional, and not very fun.

But that's not the point of a tourny list.

If it is winning then its doing its jerb. it doesn't have to be fun. the fun should come from beating and conquering others of a similar mindset.

What kinda player do you truly want to be, and what kind of groups are available to you?

That's not where the fun is coming from either, Desubot. The 'fun' is mostly from hammering out the right combination of the best troop and wargear choices in any given codex beforehand, and imagining that makes you cock of the walk.
Though when that leads to anecdotes about opponents reading army lists and forfeiting there and then... You say 'it doesn't have to be fun'. Well, that's handy. Doesn't sound much like it.

Thank you everyone for the replies. I do realize that the community as a whole are very good and supportive of others.

Has anyone tried Heralds of Ruin Kill team? It looks decend and you only need a hand full of models.

umbroca7 wrote:
Thank you everyone for the replies. I do realize that the community as a whole are very good and supportive of others.

Has anyone tried Heralds of Ruin Kill team? It looks decend and you only need a hand full of models.

I've heard a lot of good about that rule set, it seems to really so the skirmish game right, as compared to 40k's kill-team which only really offers some special rules and unit restrictions. Everyone seems to be a big fan of it.

As 40k has sped up its insanity, I've found myself moving further away from it. I don't really have the patience for 2-3 hour games anyway, so it's probably for the best. My collection has been shrinking as I get rid of the miscellaneous stuff- I'm think of keeping 1000-1500 of Dark Eldar and Orks, with which I can play small games, Combat Patrol, and Kill-team, and that way I still have 40k, but don't feel obligated to support a company I think is really crumby.

From there, I begun picking up other games, all on the smaller side. I got Dystopian Wars because I like steampunk and it's a neat naval game (not too expensive even if you have a hard time finding opponents) and All Quiet on the Martian Front because it matched my interest in WWI soldiers that I had back with 40k. And I'm looking at picking up Infinity (because the models are glorious and it's cheap to have a whole faction) and Malestrom's Edge when it comes out. Each of those games is $100-$200, so I'm definitely not breaking the bank- heck, what I'm selling from 40k will bankroll most of it.

There is a growing world out there beyond 40k. I highly suggest you make space for these games, you may find you enjoy them in ways the other never offered.