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I've been playing black Templars for 4 years but since 7th edition I've lost every game I've played. I'm coming back from about a year of inactivity and could use some help.

What models do you have? Have you changed your list at all between editions? Details man, details.

Well, what kind of list are you running? What kind of opponents are you facing? What kind of missions are you running?

"I'm losing" gives us nothing to work with.

crack out some drop pods and stern guard and see what happens...

change your paint scheme to 'angry marines'?

Paint them red, it makes them go faster

If you are playing footslogging Black tide out in the open with your models bunched together, you're doing it wrong.

/fist bump

2-8 in the last 10.

(Three decurions in a row.)

If you give us an idea of your list and the points value we can help you with your list so you'll hopefully win more.

 Sir Arun wrote:
If you are playing footslogging Black tide out in the open with your models bunched together, you're doing it wrong.

[ap3 templates intesnsify]

Sorry about that. I run a combat chapter master (relic blade storm shield)
two tactical squads in rhinos one with a melta gun and sarge with a combo melta, then a plasma squad the same set up.
An iron clad in drop pod with dual heavy framers.
An assault terminator squad in land raider.
Vindicator and predator
Ive been mixing it up a bit but that's what I normally bring

Well, the old lists don't work anymore. You'll need to accept SM codex has different tools to give BT an edge.

Thunderfire Cannons are an example. BA didn't possess this thing before. Now they can deal with hordes from a safe distance not possible with flamers.

omg

needs more Crusader Squads.

Rules check: Can you have a relic blade and a storm shield? relic blades are 2 handed is why I ask.

 Pyeatt wrote:
Rules check: Can you have a relic blade and a storm shield? relic blades are 2 handed is why I ask.

Storm shields don't take the 'hand' slot; you can even strap one behind your char. But it never lets you receive a +1A for 2 weapons, so Relic Blade is a good match (but people generally takes Thunder Hammers)

I have a bit I can work with though
6 chapter masters
3 captains
2 chaplains
1 tech marine
1 emperors champ

5 squads of tactical marines
1 crusader squad 10 power armor 5 scout
1 squad of five sniper scouts
3 rhinos
1 drop pod

3 bikes
10 assault marines
Storm talon

10 power fist terminators
5 lightning claw
5 THSS
Iron clad dread
5 stern guard
2 dreadnaughts
1 black Templar dread

2 land raiders
1 vindicator
1 pred
5 las cannon devastators
5 plasma cannon





Automatically Appended Next Post:
I got picked up the iron clad storm talon and stern guard up recently. I love dropping the iron clad in the pod that always seems to work in my favor but I can't seem to get the storm talon to make up its points

I feel you on the losing streak man. Even using some of the more popular strategies (Crusaders in a Crusader spam) I've lost 5 out of the 6 games I've played with BTs in 7th.

I've just come to accept that they are not the army to play this edition. I'll take a look in 8th or when the next marine book hits that has BT rules, but I miss our old stuff even if it was outdated from 4th. Been playing BTs since Armageddon and it's been a LONG 14 years.

Switched over to Necrons and the difference is absolutely amazing. Hoping you can find something that works for you bro.

Its funny because your above mentioned list doesnt look bad at all. What are you up against? Massed AT weaponry that then leave your guys stranded?

I know what it's like to be on a losing streak. In 4 tournaments (12 games total) I have yet to win a single game. Indeed, the only time I've ever won a game of 40k was a casual game against a relatively fluffy SW list. Of course, I am a relative newcomer to the game (haven't even been playing for a whole year yet), and I play Dark Angels (which is like bringing a knife to a gunfight), so it should be no surprise. I still love the game, and I won't give up!

Big bug Tyranid lists, tau, eldar, ultramarines, blood Angels. The tau and eldar guy uses solely lists he has found online. I can't seem to hurt the Tyranids, and the ultramarines make me walk across the table.

His list for those who dont want to calculate it:
Black Templars - 1500

Chapter Master - 170
- Relic Blade
- Storm Shield

Tactical Squad - 160
- 10 Space Marines
- Meltagun
- Combi-melta

Rhino - 35

Tactical Squad - 160
- 10 Space Marines
- Meltagun
- Combi-melta

Rhino - 35

Tactical Squad - 165
- 10 Space Marines
- Plasma Gun
- Combi-plasma

Rhino - 35

Ironclad Dreadnought -145
- 2 Heavy Flamers

Drop Pod - 35

Terminator Squad - 225
- 5 Terminators
- Thunder Hammer and Storm Shields

Land Raider Redeemer - 240

Predator - 95
-Two Heavy Bolters

Thanks for doing that vespid. I'm at work without my book so I had to do it from memory.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Its funny because your above mentioned list doesnt look bad at all. What are you up against? Massed AT weaponry that then leave your guys stranded?

Land Raiders and Vindicators aren't good. That's a big problem.

Martel732 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Its funny because your above mentioned list doesnt look bad at all. What are you up against? Massed AT weaponry that then leave your guys stranded?

Land Raiders and Vindicators aren't good. That's a big problem.

Land Raiders are objectively better than they were during 6th. They are worse than during 5th because of the general increase in power level in 40k.

They're still bad. You are both crippling your own firepower and putting too many points in one basket. All to assault a single unit of your opponent's choosing, and then have that unit get shot off the table.

If the land raider is the only armor worth mentioning in your 1500+ point army, then yeah, it will die fast. But if you have good target saturation (a predator here, a vindicator there, couple rhinos on their way etc.) then they work pretty well.

It's still the only way to make a unit assault out of it and BT need that instead of slogging it or DS and then getting shot to bits. Plus they're more reliable than Stormravens.

 Sir Arun wrote:
If the land raider is the only armor worth mentioning in your 1500+ point army, then yeah, it will die fast. But if you have good target saturation (a predator here, a vindicator there, couple rhinos on their way etc.) then they work pretty well.

It's still the only way to make a unit assault out of it and BT need that instead of slogging it or DS and then getting shot to bits. Plus they're more reliable than Stormravens.

No, it's still bad. Doesn't matter how long it lives. As I said, its dakka/pt is awful and assaulting a single unit is not worthwhile in 7th.

Your list could be any SM chapter though - there's nothing uniquely BT about it.


Crusader Squads are kinda wonderful. Throwing the Emperor's Champ into a 15 man Crusader squad and challenging can be a lot of fun, especially against stuff that isn't Eternal Warrior.


You could split those tactical into 4 groups of 5 and throw neophytes into each. I've been playing around with this list at 1500. I don't win everything, but i've had some success and fun with it. Far from perfect though, and if I don't have first turn the LR is a nuked hard.

Depending on the opponent I sometimes switch out the Vindicator, give the Terminators hammers, drop a scout squad and take a Storm Talon.

Sternguard in a drop pod is often all I need to be able to take the pressure off my LR and get my troops up. The Scouts in a Storm are fun to play with, and a Teleport Homer on the sergeant helps to get my Terminators into a nice, safe position.

I'm sure my list could be improved, but thought you might want to see it.



@Primary Detachment [ 1 ]

@HQ [ 1 ]

High Marshall Helbrecht (185pt.) Artificer armour; Iron halo; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Combi-melta; Sword of High Marshals;

@Elites [ 2 ]

10x - Sternguard Veteran Squad (320pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant (47pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Special issue ammunition; Bolt pistol; Combi-melta; Melta bombs;
> 3x - Veteran (32pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Special issue ammunition; Bolt pistol; Combi-melta;
> 1x - Veteran (32pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Special issue ammunition; Bolt pistol; Multi-melta;
> 5x - Veteran (22pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Special issue ammunition; Bolt pistol; Boltgun;
> 1x - Drop Pod (35pt.); Storm bolter;

5x - Terminator Assault Squad (200pt.)
> 1x - Terminator Sergeant (40pt.); Terminator armour; Lightning claw (x2);
> 4x - Terminator (40pt.); Terminator armour; Lightning claw (x2);

@Troops [ 3 ]

15x - Crusader Squad (490pt.)
> 7x - Initiate (14pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Bolt pistol; Chainsword;
> 1x - Initiate (19pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Bolt pistol; Flamer;
> 1x - Initiate (29pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Bolt pistol; Chainsword; Power weapon;
> 1x - Sword Brother (44pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Power weapon; Bolt pistol; Melta bombs;
> 5x - Neophyte (10pt.); Scout armor; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Bolt pistol; Space Marines shotgun;
> 1x - Land Raider Crusader (250pt.); Twin-linked assault cannon; Hurricane bolter (x2); Smoke launchers; Searchlight; Frag Assault Launcher;

5x - Scout Squad (110pt.)
> 1x - Scout Sergeant (21pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Boltgun; Bolt pistol; Teleport homer;
> 4x - Scout (11pt.); Scout armor; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Bolt pistol; Space Marines shotgun;
> 1x - Land Speeder Storm (45pt.); Cerberus launcher; Jamming beacon; Heavy flamer;

5x - Scout Squad (70pt.) Camo cloaks;
> 1x - Scout Sergeant (12pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Sniper rifle; Bolt pistol;
> 4x - Scout (12pt.); Scout armor; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Bolt pistol; Sniper rifle;

@Heavy support [ 1 ]

Vindicator (125pt.) Demolisher cannon; Storm bolter; Smoke launchers; Searchlight;

Dude - just play with another CT - nothing BT about your BT army. Nothing really wrong with your selections - though I'd say drop pods would work better than rhinos here for your tacs, esp with an ironclad dropping in. Switch to ultra marine tactics and just play with your BT paint scheme. Nothing wrong with that. It will help your list win big time. I'd say with this list in particular a Sr will work better than a LR. Then I'd use the point difference to switch the dakka pred to a marine devastator squad with 4 missile launchers or a thunderfire cannon plus some heavy weapons for your marines.

NM I see you have no SR. Just try using Ultra tactics next game to see if if helps you win.

If you're having trouble with nids, sternguard in a drop pod is sure way to bring down the big bugs. Also works well against Eldar, tau and crons big nasties. I've always had luck with land raider crusaders in 7th as well, because they are pretty resilient. Drop pods are a great way to get across the board quickly but I'd you're going that route I recommend dropping in quite a few. If you only drop one pod in, it makes an easy target for some of the shorter ranged units. Drop pods also allow you to control the game, keep them together. If you spread them out they are easier to pick off because it gives the enemy more units in range. If you take 5 pods, 3 tact squads, seige dread and sternguard. You would have 3 on the board turn one. If you put homers on your pods you deep strike your terminators without scattering to reinforce the initial drop pod squads. Crusader squad in a crusader with the vindicator back field capturing backfield objectives. Just some ideas.