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Hey folks, firstly this i my first post on this forum so hello to you all!

I've been lurking here for a few weeks now, and ya'll certainly seem to be a lively bunch, so I'm looking forward to some good discussion. However my principle reason for lurking hear is to try and urk out the shape of 40K and GW in general.

I haven't played since the early days of 5th edition in 2008, I started playing in 2003 with LotR (I was young and the movies were the best thing I'd ever seen, so ya' know). I've always kept a close eye on the tabletop industry and the public reception of GW has never really been positive. However now that I've finished Uni and have a steady job/disposable income.... I'm starting feel the lure of the Grim Dark calling me once more.

I've always loved the 40k lore, and In my opinion the quality of their mini's is unrivaled.

But I get the feeling more people are jumping ship than ever, prices continue to rise and rules are broken more than ever. I regularly see posts foretelling the doom of GW, but GW have been capitalizing on their licence more than ever with video games, so surely they'd be in a stronger position than before no?

I suppose really I'm asking for a general opinion on the game, their certainly seems to be a lot more big robots and jets than last time, I'd like to start a Grey Knights force but will I get creamed it I don't shell out £90+ on those big Imperial Knight/Eldar/Tau kits? Is the game all Baneblades vs Titans now?

I know a lot of you may advise me to try out another system, but honestly the PP models just don't do it for me, lore and aesthetics has always been the biggest draw to 40K for myself, but are these worth the price of entry and broken game?

Finally thanks so much for reading thus far! But If I were to start once more it'd be from literally nothing, how much am I looking at for a Grey Kights force at 1500pts all paints, supplies, tools, rules included... rough estimate?

TL;DR been out of the game since 5th edition, thinking of starting once again. Good thing or bad thing? I literally have nothing, want to play Grey Knights what would the cost be?

Edit The response from all of you has been incredible! I really appreciate all the opinions guy's, It's also been quite a stark contrast from what I've read elsewhere, maybe 40k isn't all gloom and doom? (ya' know what i mean)

Absolutely. I'm pretty similar to you - getting back into it. Haven't played since I was about 15. I'm 32 now, so it's been a while!

There's always doom and gloom here though. Pay it no heed.

In terms of games - at about 1500 points it's still very much a Skirmish game. Find a friendly local group and play non cheesy games and you're golden.

Also Grey Knights are cool. They typically field fewer models, so there's less to paint to get an effective army together.

Best advice is to start small - aim for a nice, simple 750 point army and head to your local GW store or friendly table top group and get some games going.

EDIT, also, welcome!

30K? Yes!

40k? I'm pulling away for now.

The problem with GK is that it is a 4 model codex, that get hard countered by the new eldar. a WK can more or less walk over a 1500pts GK army and he is around 1/5th of the whole army.

OP mentioned he/she/it likes the fluff. In that respect, go ahead man. Do not let talk about competitiveness screw you over. If you personally like it, you will have a blast.

Stop questioning it and do it.

Immersturm wrote:
OP mentioned he/she/it likes the fluff. In that respect, go ahead man. Do not let talk about competitiveness screw you over. If you personally like it, you will have a blast.

Stop questioning it and do it.

Or think about it. I mean, 40k armies aren't cheap, you're looking at minimum $500 for a new army, not necessarily including rules and gaming accessories. If you (OP) objectively go through what other's thoughts on the game are and find that what you want personally fits with what 40k offers, then by all means go ahead! But don't go in with your head in the sand whenever people make comments about what's going on.

Understand that 90% of complaints come from people who at some level want to play at a "competitive" level.

For perspective: there are four units in one dex that people are complaining about. Three of them are either new or were bad so almost nobody used them. One, to be fair, almost everyone's got.

The people complaining are worried that their gaming partners are gonna go out and drop 1000+ dollars on the four OP units the second the codex drops so they can have the biggest baddest most tournament-winningest army. Most people at most clubs will not do that and if you don't want to play at the most competitive level you don't have to deal with that.

Accolade and the_scotsman are on point. My suggestion is to go to your local GW/FLGS on game night and ask about the meta, what armies are there, the competitiveness of the group if low point games are ok etc. This will give a good idea of the community around you and what you'll likely have to put up with.

I would simply suggest what do friends of yours play?
If some play 40k great, try to pick an army different from theirs, there is a fair bit of variety so you should find an army to suit.

I would strongly suggest looking at other games for "pick-up" games where with the rule-set right now, it is not ideal for playing with strangers.

If your modeling skills are fairly good, getting some of them from areas like ebay would be a cost savings, typically some fixing may be in order when people get a little strange with their assembly.

I have played 40k since rogue trader and I am "troubled" where the mixing and matching of models seems "faction-less" where the inherent advantages and disadvantages of an army type has been wiped away with being able to mix armies / units. I have not been a strict adherent to "fluff" / story but it has been a bit of a departure that seems wrong and departs from the 40k narrative and background that gives the game it's character.

More things that used to be choices are now determined by more dice rolls which removes more tactics from the game.

There is a huge body of models to choose from and I would say now more than ever, almost any scenario you can dream up can be simulated.

I wanted to outline the above points for the question "Is now a good time to get back in?" that depends on what you are looking for in a game.
If you are looking for a "sandbox" to create your vision: YES! it is a good time.
If you are looking for fun competitive gaming and meeting new people.... no, not so good, it is a wee bit of a minefield due to the rules.

The rules also seem to have more of an eye to model sales than for creating more fun so the corporate end of things are not ideal either.

Now, more than ever it depends on the customers making the game fun rather than the creator.

I wish you well on any decision you make.

 Accolade wrote:

Immersturm wrote:
OP mentioned he/she/it likes the fluff. In that respect, go ahead man. Do not let talk about competitiveness screw you over. If you personally like it, you will have a blast.

Stop questioning it and do it.

Or think about it. I mean, 40k armies aren't cheap, you're looking at minimum $500 for a new army, not necessarily including rules and gaming accessories. If you (OP) objectively go through what other's thoughts on the game are and find that what you want personally fits with what 40k offers, then by all means go ahead! But don't go in with your head in the sand whenever people make comments about what's going on.

But if people thought about things where would all the cheap 2nd hand ebay models come from?

I'd add to it and say think of the time investment assembling and painting models, I think that's what kills a lot of people right out of the gate.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

Immersturm wrote:
OP mentioned he/she/it likes the fluff. In that respect, go ahead man. Do not let talk about competitiveness screw you over. If you personally like it, you will have a blast.

Stop questioning it and do it.

Or think about it. I mean, 40k armies aren't cheap, you're looking at minimum $500 for a new army, not necessarily including rules and gaming accessories. If you (OP) objectively go through what other's thoughts on the game are and find that what you want personally fits with what 40k offers, then by all means go ahead! But don't go in with your head in the sand whenever people make comments about what's going on.

But if people thought about things where would all the cheap 2nd hand ebay models come from?

I'd add to it and say think of the time investment assembling and painting models, I think that's what kills a lot of people right out of the gate.

Exactly! Hit up eBay and get some cheap stuff.

You can halve the cost of an army with absolutely no effort that way.

Yesterday I bought 10 SM scouts on eBay for £4.80. That would have been £31 from GW!

Go for it! A lot of people are getting out or selling stuff they don't need, so eBay and the like are your friends, so is the Swap Shop. For a 1500 points GK force you could probably get everything you need for less than $300 (depending on what you want). I would just advise unless you have a LGS you want to support, buy online all the time. It makes the price of this game a lot cheaper

the_scotsman wrote:
Understand that 90% of complaints come from people who at some level want to play at a "competitive" level.

Ignoring that 87.369% of stats are made up, this is both untrue and not grounded in any sort of facts.

The complaints come from a range of players upset over a range of issues, regardless of their desire to play in tournaments or not.

OP, if you have a group of friends you can regularly game with that already play or are entering with you, then go nuts. Much of 40k's issues become less of a problem with tight knit group that's willing to hash out some house rules. If you don't have a close group to game with and depend on pick ups, I'd recommend considering what other games are played in the area.

You'll get differing opinions on the rules, but I personally feel the game was better in 5th, where you left off. If you prefer a game where the mantra is 'anything goes!', then you'll have fun. If you like more structure and/or balance, you'll find the game in a worse off state.

All that said, the fluff from years ago still exists, the models are still solid, and there's plenty of room for customization and custom armies if you're a big hobbyist.

7-th is great. At least it was till Eldar broke the game once again

Do it man playing with friends is great, you can ignore most of the stuff on here if you don't play competitively.

grey knights are not bad but don't have a lot of diversity in the model range, but they still pack a punch.

also if you already have friends who collect armies your good, but if not you might have couple of problems, but can just find a local club.

average age of a 40K gamer tends to be 20 and up in my area, so you will find mature players.

Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Yes but with a pickup game it's a crapshoot if your opponent will be playing something overpowered, something underpowered or inadvertently taking OP units because they happen to like them. Your enjoyment in a game of 40k is 100% dependent on the kind of opponent you are playing, and a pickup game can be against virtually any type of opponent.

I have an army I am going to sell. Interested in a CSM army?

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Yes but with a pickup game it's a crapshoot if your opponent will be playing something overpowered, something underpowered or inadvertently taking OP units because they happen to like them. Your enjoyment in a game of 40k is 100% dependent on the kind of opponent you are playing, and a pickup game can be against virtually any type of opponent.

I'd sooner play an imbalanced game against a fun, humorous human being than a balanced game against a numberbot.

Point is, go in to your local FLGS, meet them, play some demo games and see if you like them. The humans. They're more important than the codex or the comp or the meta.

Balance changes. Rules change. This is a social game - making decisions based on something as transitory as paper is pointless.

A few people have said in this thread that if you have close friends who play you'll have a blast but don't bother otherwise... this is simply untrue. Pick up games are entirely possible. Wargaming clubs exist in most cities around the globe and many, many people find a great deal of fun playing this game.

Oh, and just to reiterate; eBay. If the Eldar-reactionists are true to their word (and the vast, vast majority are blowing hot air) then eBay is going to be a veritable gold-mine in the coming weeks!

Amayasu wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Yes but with a pickup game it's a crapshoot if your opponent will be playing something overpowered, something underpowered or inadvertently taking OP units because they happen to like them. Your enjoyment in a game of 40k is 100% dependent on the kind of opponent you are playing, and a pickup game can be against virtually any type of opponent.

I'd sooner play an imbalanced game against a fun, humorous human being than a balanced game against a numberbot.

Point is, go in to your local FLGS, meet them, play some demo games and see if you like them. The humans. They're more important than the codex or the comp or the meta.

Balance changes. Rules change. This is a social game - making decisions based on something as transitory as paper is pointless.

A few people have said in this thread that if you have close friends who play you'll have a blast but don't bother otherwise... this is simply untrue. Pick up games are entirely possible. Wargaming clubs exist in most cities around the globe and many, many people find a great deal of fun playing this game.

Oh, and just to reiterate; eBay. If the Eldar-reactionists are true to their word (and the vast, vast majority are blowing hot air) then eBay is going to be a veritable gold-mine in the coming weeks!

What if I show up with my Imperial Fist TAC army and the guy has an IK army? (happened) I'd either have to let him stomp me to the ground or refuse a game and maybe not find another opponent. Either way, both people end up with a sour taste in their mouths.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Yes but with a pickup game it's a crapshoot if your opponent will be playing something overpowered, something underpowered or inadvertently taking OP units because they happen to like them. Your enjoyment in a game of 40k is 100% dependent on the kind of opponent you are playing, and a pickup game can be against virtually any type of opponent.

Nonsense. If you get a rubbish opponent, move on and don't play him again. When I started, all I played were PUGs and now I have a cool group of people i regularly play with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:

Amayasu wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Yes but with a pickup game it's a crapshoot if your opponent will be playing something overpowered, something underpowered or inadvertently taking OP units because they happen to like them. Your enjoyment in a game of 40k is 100% dependent on the kind of opponent you are playing, and a pickup game can be against virtually any type of opponent.

I'd sooner play an imbalanced game against a fun, humorous human being than a balanced game against a numberbot.

Point is, go in to your local FLGS, meet them, play some demo games and see if you like them. The humans. They're more important than the codex or the comp or the meta.

Balance changes. Rules change. This is a social game - making decisions based on something as transitory as paper is pointless.

A few people have said in this thread that if you have close friends who play you'll have a blast but don't bother otherwise... this is simply untrue. Pick up games are entirely possible. Wargaming clubs exist in most cities around the globe and many, many people find a great deal of fun playing this game.

Oh, and just to reiterate; eBay. If the Eldar-reactionists are true to their word (and the vast, vast majority are blowing hot air) then eBay is going to be a veritable gold-mine in the coming weeks!

What if I show up with my Imperial Fist TAC army and the guy has an IK army? (happened) I'd either have to let him stomp me to the ground or refuse a game and maybe not find another opponent. Either way, both people end up with a sour taste in their mouths.

Then be an adult and move on? Either ask him to play another list or just don't bother. Guess what? I've played completely one-sided games with WAAC and TFG people. I don't play them and I move on, like a reasonable, well-adjusted adult

As long as you're aware that turning down a game because of list disparities is a symptom and not a solution.

Honestly this would be the best time to jump back in. if you keep an eye out you can find people quitting and selling off there stuff and a decently low price. haggling and being frugal can net you a decent sized army for almost nothing.

As to the state of the game. over all its pretty bad. there are incredibly obviously broken stuff in the game and in generally it becomes rock paper scissors shotgun quickly.

The enjoyment of the game comes to you and your group type you want to play with to make things fun.

Otherwise expect going in for a friendly pick up game and constantly stomping skew lists or getting stomped.

GK are ok. but choices are limited. but damn do they look nice when fully painted.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Yes but with a pickup game it's a crapshoot if your opponent will be playing something overpowered, something underpowered or inadvertently taking OP units because they happen to like them. Your enjoyment in a game of 40k is 100% dependent on the kind of opponent you are playing, and a pickup game can be against virtually any type of opponent.

Finding the right place to play is almost as important as learning the rules, imo. I really hated playing at the GW near me. Not only was it mostly kids playing (not that kids playing is a bad thing, they were just annoying spoiled brats and I wanted to play with people my age), but the owner was (understandably) more interested in making sales than letting people just play. And while I get that, it also was annoying when I just wanted to come in and throw some dice rather than hear a sales pitch.

My interest was waning until I found my FLGS. Discounts on purchases, cool owners, a great group of people that play hard but also play for fun. It's not uncommon to see pretty serious armies, but everyone has fun playing against them and no one bitches when the new FotM hits the table. If I didn't have this group of people I probably wouldn't have half of my collection nor would I look forward to Thursdays.

It all depends on the people you play with. Th rules and balance don't matter much as long as you're playing against people you enjoy hanging out with and throwing some dice. It's a social game after all. If you have a good community where you live, there's no reason not to go for it.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Indeed. But everything from Bridge to Monopoly to Ice Hockey to Basketball are a lot more fun with a solid group of friends. The whole idea of pickup games for me is just to find a solid group of friends to game with

Our regular group has 6 people; three of us have known each other since the late 80's, and we met at pickup games at a university wargaming group (ironically 2 of us were to young to be attending university when we met hahaha).

 jreilly89 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Yes but with a pickup game it's a crapshoot if your opponent will be playing something overpowered, something underpowered or inadvertently taking OP units because they happen to like them. Your enjoyment in a game of 40k is 100% dependent on the kind of opponent you are playing, and a pickup game can be against virtually any type of opponent.

Nonsense. If you get a rubbish opponent, move on and don't play him again. When I started, all I played were PUGs and now I have a cool group of people i regularly play with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:

Amayasu wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Take a look at your local shop (or wherever you play) and see what they got going on. If its all 40k all the time, then sure, talk to them and see what kind of games they play.
If they play ANYTHING else, play that instead. 40k is near impossible for pick up games.

Nonsense.
As long as your opponent is a nice person, 40k works very well for pick up games.
That said, the greatest fun is to be had in playing with a solid group of friends. So do visit a local club or store and see what the folks over there are like.

Yes but with a pickup game it's a crapshoot if your opponent will be playing something overpowered, something underpowered or inadvertently taking OP units because they happen to like them. Your enjoyment in a game of 40k is 100% dependent on the kind of opponent you are playing, and a pickup game can be against virtually any type of opponent.

I'd sooner play an imbalanced game against a fun, humorous human being than a balanced game against a numberbot.

Point is, go in to your local FLGS, meet them, play some demo games and see if you like them. The humans. They're more important than the codex or the comp or the meta.

Balance changes. Rules change. This is a social game - making decisions based on something as transitory as paper is pointless.

A few people have said in this thread that if you have close friends who play you'll have a blast but don't bother otherwise... this is simply untrue. Pick up games are entirely possible. Wargaming clubs exist in most cities around the globe and many, many people find a great deal of fun playing this game.

Oh, and just to reiterate; eBay. If the Eldar-reactionists are true to their word (and the vast, vast majority are blowing hot air) then eBay is going to be a veritable gold-mine in the coming weeks!

What if I show up with my Imperial Fist TAC army and the guy has an IK army? (happened) I'd either have to let him stomp me to the ground or refuse a game and maybe not find another opponent. Either way, both people end up with a sour taste in their mouths.

Then be an adult and move on? Either ask him to play another list or just don't bother. Guess what? I've played completely one-sided games with WAAC and TFG people. I don't play them and I move on, like a reasonable, well-adjusted adult

You didn't actually read what I wrote, did you? Because that's exactly what I said, only added that that's no fun for either party. And I don't carry multiple armies around with me when I go to play. That's a lot of space. So, to recap, because of the disparity of power levels you either have to auto-loose or refuse to play.
Yeah, that sounds great for pick up games.
Edit: And being condescending doesn't make you sound smarter.

Having friends is overpowered!

Nerf please!

To all those who say the competitive players complain about the imbalance, you couldn't be more wrong. Competitive players understand that the meta changes as books are released, and we need to keep playtesting and updating our lists based on what's powerful at the moment. The casual players who bring mediocre lists to an FLGS and get roflstomped are the ones complaining about the balance issues. I've been playing pod marines with invisible grav star in tournaments for the past year. I also have eldar. After doing the math on the new eldar vs my marines, I've decided to switch to a jetbike army backed up by D weapons. Casual players unwilling to spend $400-500 to update their army when a new OP book comes out are the ones who suffer and therefore complain. I haven't talked to a single highly competitive tournament player that thinks the new eldar are unstoppable. Every casual player in my area is up in arms about them.