Mantic Games - Sci-fi News & Rumors: Sci-Fi Zombies released.

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**judgedoug**

Bombad wrote:
Hard to assign an actual value, but this still isn't a better deal than KS...

Wait, so now that the numbers are done, you're saying the KS backers still got a better deal than this 'urban quadrant' bundle set?

**Bombad**

judgedoug wrote:
Bombad wrote:
Hard to assign an actual value, but this still isn't a better deal than KS...

Wait, so now that the numbers are done, you're saying the KS backers still got a better deal than this 'urban quadrant' bundle set?

Yes, but you can skew it if you try to squint. If you bought just a single Battlezone for $25, then no, you didn't get as good a deal (TWG beats it slightly, but not really fair to compare single BZ price to buying a huge bundle). The $50 add-on is pretty much even and can be argued either way depending upon how you view the free accessory sprue in your accounting. The $95 add-on and $285 tier barely beat it this new bundle at this discount here, and the $185 add-on pretty easily was cheaper to buy on KS.

**GrimDork**

I thought ~$25 per battlezone was a great deal during the kickstarter so I bought a bunch. If I can get them that cheap at retail, I may get more even though I hadn't planned to.

I only ordered 10 peacekeepers because of stuff like that. If I decide I need more, I can probably get them for some decent price in the future. I'll probably back future kickstarters with a bit more stinginess, but if anything, I'm glad people will be able to get battlezones as cheaply as I did. More feathers in Mantics cap, more revenue to keep things moving forward to the next thing they make that I'll want to paint.

**BobtheInquisitor**

AegisGrimm wrote:
The strider looks a teensy bit better for the money than the THI suits from Sedition Wars that were the same price, lol.

Bitter? Me? Naw........

Actually, I think the THI suits were 50% more expensive...

**Azazelx**

Yeah, the THIs were $15 a pop.

**judgedoug**

Bombad wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
Bombad wrote:
Hard to assign an actual value, but this still isn't a better deal than KS...

Wait, so now that the numbers are done, you're saying the KS backers still got a better deal than this 'urban quadrant' bundle set?

Yes, but you can skew it if you try to squint. If you bought just a single Battlezone for $25, then no, you didn't get as good a deal (TWG beats it slightly, but not really fair to compare single BZ price to buying a huge bundle). The $50 add-on is pretty much even and can be argued either way depending upon how you view the free accessory sprue in your accounting. The $95 add-on and $285 tier barely beat it this new bundle at this discount here, and the $185 add-on pretty easily was cheaper to buy on KS.

Okay, so again, it's simply not true that the retail release is cheaper than the KS prices. If you spent the same amount of money with the KS you got more stuff. (I wound up buying about 6 additional Battlezones on survey 2 )

Thank you.

**Hulksmash**

judgedoug wrote:
Bombad wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
Bombad wrote:
Hard to assign an actual value, but this still isn't a better deal than KS...

Wait, so now that the numbers are done, you're saying the KS backers still got a better deal than this 'urban quadrant' bundle set?

Yes, but you can skew it if you try to squint. If you bought just a single Battlezone for $25, then no, you didn't get as good a deal (TWG beats it slightly, but not really fair to compare single BZ price to buying a huge bundle). The $50 add-on is pretty much even and can be argued either way depending upon how you view the free accessory sprue in your accounting. The $95 add-on and $285 tier barely beat it this new bundle at this discount here, and the $185 add-on pretty easily was cheaper to buy on KS.

Okay, so again, it's simply not true that the retail release is cheaper than the KS prices. If you spent the same amount of money with the KS you got more stuff. (I wound up buying about 6 additional Battlezones on survey 2 )

Thank you.

No if you bought 4 or 12 BZ's it was cheaper to wait for the sales at retail. If you bout 8 then you came out ahead. Granted none of the KS BZ prices consider the lower number of connecters they come with and what it would cost to replace the difference. Basically it's close or a wash at retail and they will be getting their items we ordered from the second survey before we do (terrain wise).

While there are some good deals like SS says. I'm over Mantic Kickstarters. If I can just wait for it for retail why tie up funds months in advance? The return on my money in hand is better than any likely difference between discounted retail and their KS price. Basically it's pointless. Combine that with not being able to purchase what you want on the second survey like they said you would be able to and I'm just over it.

Not upset, just done with their products via kickstarter. Once it hits retail if I have a need I'll pick it up.

**carlos13th**

Tbh more than anything else its the purchasing sight unseen is why I am done with them. I felt the quality of the Deadzone stuff I received wasn't all that great and restic isn't a great material. Not to mention the packing errors. Every Mantic kickstarter seems to be delivered on time but have problems like packing errors, some dodgy sculpts, models looking nothing like the concept art material changes etc.

I am not saying that all these happen every kickstarter but they are common enough to make the risk not worth the reward.

**Theophony**

Well I can't seem to find them through a reliable us distributor. Miniaturemarket.com doesn't carry them anymore, and thewarstore.com doesn't seem to get restocked of them either. They better up their game, or I'll need to find something else. I won't touch the kickstarter a of theirs for the reasons others have listed.

**judgedoug**

Hulksmash wrote:

While there are some good deals like SS says. I'm over Mantic Kickstarters. If I can just wait for it for retail why tie up funds months in advance? The return on my money in hand is better than any likely difference between discounted retail and their KS price. Basically it's pointless. Combine that with not being able to purchase what you want on the second survey like they said you would be able to and I'm just over it.

Not upset, just done with their products via kickstarter. Once it hits retail if I have a need I'll pick it up.

Huh, I got an insane deal on my Deadzone KS figs. All those booster bundles were such a deep discount that the only way to match the prices I paid via KS is to wait for someone to go 50% off or more and hope you get one. But we already had the discussion about retail vs KS miniature pricing and I busted out the numbers after I almost fell for all the doom and gloom about retail being cheaper than KS (demonstrably and overwhelmingly false, and thankfully so, as I personally saved like a hundred bucks and I'm getting more figures than the retail peeps).

I went and looked at SS's post and he got some prices wrong (the KS bundles included accessory sprues for one)

Now I want to actually look at the cost myself. The Urban Quadrant is MSRP $199, so assuming Miniature Market's standard Deadzone 20% off, that's $160 with free shipping. I'm going on US prices here as I do not know the shipping for TWG to the USA.

And everyone determined it's 5 battlezones, right? In the Urban Quadrant? I'm going on the assumption this is true, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong. Plus 4 accessory sprues and 8 connector sprues. (also if you preorder from Mantic for $199 you get 2 ruins sprues, but I'm focusing on retailer at 20% discount here)

So, going by KS prices, for $145 I can get "4 Battlezones + 2 accessory sprues ($95)" and "2 Battlezones + 1 accessory sprue ($50)". That's 6 connector sprues and 3 accessory sprues. So let's say we add one more accessory sprue ($5) and a set of five connector sprues ($10). That's $160.

So for $160 Urban Quadrant at Miniature Market 20% discount I get: 5 battlezones with 8 connectors and 4 accessories.
Or for $160 a la carte at Kickstarter I get: 6 battlezones with 11 connectors and 4 accessories. Interestingly, this is what I bought on the 2nd survey, so now I can clearly see that I made a good choice, as I got more via KS than via MM discount, especially with the extra connector sprues which are basically like gold.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Theophony wrote:
Well I can't seem to find them through a reliable us distributor. Miniaturemarket.com doesn't carry them anymore, and thewarstore.com doesn't seem to get restocked of them either. They better up their game, or I'll need to find something else. I won't touch the kickstarter a of theirs for the reasons others have listed.

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/deadzone.html
http://www.thewarstore.com/ManticDeadzone.html
http://frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=3879

**pretre**

So, yet another 'omg, kickstarter isn't a good value' debunked? Thanks, JD!

**Compel**

So yeah, that's the Kickstarter paypal 'please pay me' things in today.

And, it seems to me that it's just when the exchange rate from Dollars to pounds has taken a bit of a hammering?

How long until I actually have to pay it? Or am I just quibbling over £1 or so?

**GrimDork**

I got my notice too. It's either exactly what it should be or within like 5 dollars, my memory is shaky.

I thought the urban quadrant was closer to 5.5 battlezones?

46 sprues? \ 8 is 5.75, but people may have tallied up the specific sprue counts and figured it out differently too.

**agnosto**

pretre wrote:
So, yet another 'omg, kickstarter isn't a good value' debunked? Thanks, JD!

I think it all depends on what you're in for. People who piled-in and bought big quantities got fantastic deals (bulk rate?) but if you approached this from a board game perspective and just bought enough to play an average 70 pt game (it's not meant to be a massive battle system after all) may not have gotten a great deal. I chalk it up to early adoption tax if I wind up paying a bit more anyway.

**Krinsath**

Compel wrote:
How long until I actually have to pay it? Or am I just quibbling over £1 or so?

June 2nd according to the confirmation email I got when doing the survey.

**scarletsquig**

GrimDork wrote:
I got my notice too. It's either exactly what it should be or within like 5 dollars, my memory is shaky.

I thought the urban quadrant was closer to 5.5 battlezones?

46 sprues? \ 8 is 5.75, but people may have tallied up the specific sprue counts and figured it out differently too.

46 sprues + 2 extra ruins sprues for 48 total. So, 6 battlezones total in the box.

**GrimDork**

Ahh, there you go. I have so many BZs so far I haven't even considered the kit so I'm a bit loose on the facts.

So it would have to be $150 for it to meet what I paid on the kickstarter, or even a bit less since I got deals for large quantity. I still think it's awesome that future buyers can buy in for such a good price. Aren't those GW building kits up to 33 or 35 dollars now? I thought they were pretty decent when they were 25 or so but the price hike (and this stuff existing) completely destroys any enthusiasm for them

**scarletsquig**

GW kits are a lot smaller, 2 tiles are less than half the size of a BZ tile and making intact buildings gets expensive quick. They were pretty good when they came out and a £100 city set was sold, but those days are long gone. On the plus side, they go together a lot easier than the BZ stuff due to not bothering with the connector jazz in the first place and sticking with large connection points to glue together.

I'm happy that the retail boxes are nice and cheap, mainly because I'll be wanting to buy more of them, currently have 2 with another 5 incoming and might get more ruins and core worlds to get a really good set of accessible ruins for deadzone.

**judgedoug**

scarletsquig wrote:
GrimDork wrote:
I got my notice too. It's either exactly what it should be or within like 5 dollars, my memory is shaky.

I thought the urban quadrant was closer to 5.5 battlezones?

46 sprues? \ 8 is 5.75, but people may have tallied up the specific sprue counts and figured it out differently too.

46 sprues + 2 extra ruins sprues for 48 total. So, 6 battlezones total in the box.

You are counting accessory sprues as terrain sprues.
10 x Urban Sprue A
5 x Urban Sprue B
5 x Urban Sprue C
4 x Urban Sprue D
2 x Landing Pad Sprue A
2 x Landing Pad Sprue B
5 x Fortifications Sprue A
5 x Fortifications Sprue B
2 x Defence Line Sprue A
2 x Defence Line Sprue B
Total: 42 terrain sprues
Plus 4 accessory sprues
Plus 8 connector sprues

I was not counting accessory or connector sprues. 42 terrain sprues in the basic box (available from online discounters), or 44 from Mantic for full price due to the 2 free ruins sprues.

This is the link I'm using http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/battlezones/product/battlezones-sci-fi-urban-quadrant.html

So for $200 from Mantic I get 44 terrain sprues, 8 connectors, and 4 accessories.
So for $160 Urban Quadrant at Miniature Market 20% discount I get: 42 terrain sprues with 8 connectors and 4 accessories.
Or for $160 a la carte at Kickstarter I get: 48 terrain sprues with 11 connectors and 4 accessories.

**Alpharius**

OK.

**judgedoug**

Alpharius wrote:
OK.

Dude, seriously? There's been a lot of doom and gloom about retail prices being cheaper than KS, and there was a lot of echo chambers. "The KS is more expensive than retail! *no proof*" followed by "shucks, Mantic done it again and pulled a fast one!" I had assumed that it was accurate and that the people posting and echoing it around had done their homework. I fell for it until the last few days before the survey, until I did the math myself, and everyone was completely and totally wrong and incredibly irresponsible. Because of that, I redid my survey and wound up saving a ton of money versus if I had waited until retail.

So, you and others may think that I'm being boring by pointing out the costs/values, but I know for a fact it saved me a non insubstantial amount of money and I hope that these cost breakdowns helped others save some cash as well.

**Alpharius**

Overreact much?

I was merely stating how great the news is - and hoping we can now move on?

**scarletsquig**

@judgedoug - I used USD to GBP conversions and UK webstores pricing for my calculations. (and indiviidual battlezone pricing from the KS since there wasn't an identical bundle sold)

If you look at my original post, I straight-up stated that it might not apply to US pricing/ US webstores, which as you've shown, it doesn't.

UK folks tend to get Mantic stuff a little cheaper at retail is all, it has always been the case that the USD pricing gets rounded up a little across the range. But of course, KS is 100% USD which makes it all the more important for UK backers to run the maths a bit more since we have variable exchange rates, currency conversion fees and all that gak to deal with on USD KS's whereas the retail ticket prices are a little more on our side.

There isn't all that much difference even for UK people, only a matter of £5-10 on a very large bulk purchase. I've already bought another 6 battlezones via surveys and am not particularly bothered by it (in fact I'm glad to have the option to buy even more of them even cheaper via retail, you really can't have too much of this stuff!)... although the wait for July is definitely bugging me now that I play DZ regularly and really want to get my hands on the ruins sprues.

This is great news!

**pretre**

Looks like I'm saving $24 on the survey for no particular reason. That's nice. (My whole survey ended up being $1,705. My end is $261.50 out of that. So $24 isn't a big deal.) Good times.

**Alpharius**

pretre - you were splitting that with a bunch of people, right?

RIGHT?!?

**pretre**

Alpharius wrote:
pretre - you were splitting that with a bunch of people, right?

RIGHT?!?

Yeah, my gaming group is each getting a faction or two and a couple people locally wanted in. So 8 people total.

**Alpharius**

How much terrain will you guys have all together?

It must add up to an impressive amount!

**pretre**

Alpharius wrote:
How much terrain will you guys have all together?

It must add up to an impressive amount!

Not counting the Strike Team...
hmm

I'm getting a Fort, Land and Ruined plus connectors and one of my buddies is getting 2 core. (that's just my core group)

Aww heck, let's just spoiler this:

Spoiler:

**judgedoug**

Alpharius wrote:
Overreact much?

I was merely stating how great the news is - and hoping we can now move on?

I overreact when it's my wallet that's being affected

And sure, and of course, apologies if you've taken offense, as none was intended.

**Alpharius**

No, no offense taken - none at all!

I LOVE Mantic's terrain offerings from Deadzone - they have enabled me to build a fantastic SF table at a much lower cost than I'd thought possible.

I think I'm going to love their SF 'hard plastic' offerings too.

It is just their smaller sized 'restic' stuff that continues to disappoint.

They're close - so close...