Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yo WHFB players refugees, here are the 1st edition rules:
http://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/downloads.html

Now, we're in an awkward phase at the moment. The 2nd edition public beta (public beta testing to balance the game?!? what an otiose thing to do) has just finished up, but there aren't any complete documents released yet. Another week or two and we'd have pretty-pretty downloads to show off, so for now there's just the awfully laid out beta documents:

Core Rules:
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=21AFEBFC9F9B9322!13419&ithint=file%2cpdf&app=WordPdf&authkey=!AA65yYAaNDyt4KE

The biggest differences between those and what's going to print is that there's no +1 short range modifier for shooting, and a unit must take at least one point of damage in melee in order to be disordered.

Army lists:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nhZLDFOHUXC2MCA6NwYQWr0HF2mSyvEWIlNH4oCtBeQ/htmlview#gid=1243412207

2nd edition is up for pre-order:
Hardback edition contain rules, fluff and army lists
Gamers edition, contains rules and army lists

The army lists in the printed core rulebook are:
- Abyssal Dwarfs
- Dwarfs
- Elves
- Goblins
- Orcs
- Kingdoms of Men (use nearly any fantasy or historical army in here)
- Undead
- Basileans (Angelic themed human list)
- Ogres
- Forces of Nature
- Force of the Abyss

All of the core rules and army lists will be going up for download shortly after release, but the hardback gets you all of the game fluff plus printed rules/army lists, while the gamers edition just has printed rules and army lists.


Warhammer Armies in KoW
You can use your existing Warhammer collection in KoW. No question about it. Even at official events. The only stipulation is that you won't be able to win "Best Mantic Army".

Obviously most of the WHFB armies are represented already, but Mantic are aware that there are some model collections (not specifically WHFB, but other manufacturers in general) that aren't covered very well. There will be a supplement released shortly that has several army lists covering non-Mantic armies. The first three have been released for public beta here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=644257362

If you have a Skaven army then you should find your collection covered by the Ratkin army list.
If you have a Beastman army then you should find your collection covered by the Herd army list.
If you have a mixed human/halfling army then you should find your collection covered by the Leage of Rhordia army list.
If you have a Dark Elf army then the majority of it should be covered by the Twilight Kin list in the basic army lists here. (there's a bit of history I won't bother you with, but the TL;DR of it is that the Twilight Kin list will be officially legal and tournament sanctioned, but won't get a printed release for some time)

These will be fully official, legal and tournament ready army lists. There are more coming shortly.


KoW vs Warhammer Fantasy
Here are your biggest differences between WHFB and KoW:
1) Units pivot rather than wheel. No more measuring how far they're wheeling - if you're allowed to pivot with the move you're making them just pivot them up to 90 degrees. Done.

2) Individual casualties are not removed. Instead units act very much like monsters do in WHFB - they keep going and accumulating wounds until they reach their breaking point. Whenever they take damage, they'll take a Nerve test (similar to a Leadership test in WHFB) to see if they are Steady, Wavered or Rout from the battlefield. In practice this means that you can not only have the "wrong" number of models in the unit (as long as the units movement tray/footprint is correct) but you can also go as far as multibasing and creating whole dioramas out of a unit without worrying about removing individual models.

Unit fillers aren't just legal, they're actively encouraged.

3) Heroes don't join units. They act as units in their own right. This doesn't mean they're easy to snipe (they're really not), just that they act as mobile support to your main battle units rather than being stuck within a unit.

4) There's no dedicated Magic phase. Magic supports your army but doesn't break it. Magic lets you cause small amounts of damage, or slightly buff a single unit (giving it +1 when rolling to wound for example), but it does not have the ability to wipe out entire units by itself. Spells are simply ranged attacks used in the shooting phase.

Great post, and sure to help a lot of new players. I would argue you under-sell the value of Magic a little (Surge, in a game about positioning, for example, is hugely powerful in a smart player's hands), but over-all this is great info.

Incidentally, I also want to welcome our former WHFB players. I run "Warhammer Fantasy Refugee Night" at two different local shops where I have been helping players transition to KoW without spending a dime, and it has been great seeing the community grow, and expand with piles of happy new players.

Surge is definitely amazing. If used in the hands of a good/decent/amazing general, it's better than any direct damage spell in the game.

Oh yes absolutely, Surge is an amazing spell that, with the right tactical application, can win you the game. I was just commenting on how toned down magic is compared to WHFB

Can you mix armies?

Say I ant a human army but with like some mercenary ogres or beast people etc?

Im not a huge fan of Fantasy without historical stuff, but I do like to mix a few fantasy elements with my army.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Can you mix armies?

Say I ant a human army but with like some mercenary ogres or beast people etc?

Im not a huge fan of Fantasy without historical stuff, but I do like to mix a few fantasy elements with my army.

Yes you can. Kingdoms of Men have Mercenary Ogres in their ranks. Also there is a fan army list for beastmen called the Herd so you can ally

 Commissar-Danno wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Can you mix armies?

Say I ant a human army but with like some mercenary ogres or beast people etc?

Im not a huge fan of Fantasy without historical stuff, but I do like to mix a few fantasy elements with my army.

Yes you can. Kingdoms of Men have Mercenary Ogres in their ranks. Also there is a fan army list for beastmen called the Herd so you can ally

Sweet.

Can't decide between Kingdom of man with historical or Undead but it looks fun to play.

Thanks, I've messed around a bit with the first edition rules, but hadn't seen much about the new stuff.

No mention of lizardmen, though?

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Commissar-Danno wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Can you mix armies?

Say I ant a human army but with like some mercenary ogres or beast people etc?

Im not a huge fan of Fantasy without historical stuff, but I do like to mix a few fantasy elements with my army.

Yes you can. Kingdoms of Men have Mercenary Ogres in their ranks. Also there is a fan army list for beastmen called the Herd so you can ally

Sweet.

Can't decide between Kingdom of man with historical or Undead but it looks fun to play.

Derp fan list I meant official list. Sorry about that.

Since Kingdoms of Men are a neutral army you can ally with either good or evil and can play with an undead army. Of course the way you paint up your human army you can either have them be a loyal undead army of men, or an army risen from the grave of history.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 toasteroven wrote:
Thanks, I've messed around a bit with the first edition rules, but hadn't seen much about the new stuff.

No mention of lizardmen, though?

There are Salamanders in the army of nature list. Though Mantic is working on supplemental lists for Warhammer Fantasy armies so Lizardmen are most likely going to be included.

A full Salamander list is on its way :-) We're busy proofreading the v2 rulebook so as soon as that goes to the printers tomorrow we can get back to the expanded lists.

Ogres aren't in the Kingdoms of Men list any more since they have their own separate list. You can ally them in now and allies can make up to 25% of your army total.

The way allies work is that each army list has an alignment - neutral, good or evil. Good and Evil can't ally with each other, but otherwise you're good to go.

Allies need opponent's consent though. Will they be tourney legal?

Yes they will be. We removed the paragraph about opponents consent.

Superb. Makes it so much easier to proxy GW armies.

Been thinking about making the move to KoW for awhile but now I have a great reason. My group are all going to make the switch and my brothers group in Cleveland are also making the switch.

Also a question. Are there any fluff books in the works to flush out the Mantica world? Like say a series, freelancers or people who show up out of no where and say they have a story set in the world of Mantica and would like to have it published officially?

There are some talks going on at the moment for novels, but for now the fluff will be through the main rulebook and expansions...

Backers were just informed that 2nd Edition has been sent to the printers, free PDF version of the rulebook (rules and lists, no fluff) will be available for the general public to download on July 10th.

Backers are getting their fancier full book PDFs a few days before.

 Daedleh wrote:
A full Salamander list is on its way :-) We're busy proofreading the v2 rulebook so as soon as that goes to the printers tomorrow we can get back to the expanded lists.

Right on, looking forward to it.

 Commissar-Danno wrote:
Also a question. Are there any fluff books in the works to flush out the Mantica world? Like say a series, freelancers or people who show up out of no where and say they have a story set in the world of Mantica and would like to have it published officially?

There is a book: Bloodstone of Cerillion. There is also a fanzine called Ironwatch that sometimes has fiction.

Dunno if it's mentioned but the free rules are out on July 10. Am I correct?

Is there any major difference from the rules presented here? http://manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/KOW-2nd-Ed-WIP6.pdf

WHFB refugee here, I was about to make a thread just like this but you've already got it covered!

This is very helpful, but where do I find out base sizes, particularly for models there are rules profiles but not figures from Mantic?

Could someone make a key of the different types - for instance, are all large cavalry on the same base size, and what size is that? Same for infantry (20mm or 25mm?), etc.

Same goes for unit formation - what dimensions / configuration are the units (5-wide)? I imagine this is in the core rules but I can't get that document to open. I preordered the 2.0 rulebook last night though and looking forward to seeing the free pdf in a week!

Mostly base sizes are the same for same-type units. Large cavalry have the same base size etc. The exception I think is orcs having a slightly bigger base fro their infantry.

Here's the official FAQ (for KoW v1):

Base Sizes
Q) Could you please clarify the base sizes for Naiads, Sylphs, Gnomes, Sylvan Kin, Salamanders, Lower Abyssals and other units
whose models have not being released yet?
A) Here’s a list (courtesy of Darklord, edited by Alessio):
• Infantry is on 20mm square bases, apart from Orcs, Sylvan Kin, Salamanders, Lower Abyssals & Gargoyles, which are on
25mm square bases.
• Large Infantry is on 40mm square bases, apart from Lesser Obsidian Golems, which are on 50mm square bases.
• Cavalry is on 25x50mm.
• Large Cavalry is on 50mm square bases, apart from Mincers, all Chariots & Fight Wagons which are on 50mm x 100mm.
• Monsters are normally on 50mm square bases, but you can use a 50mm x 100mm base if your monster doesn’t fit.
• War Engines don’t have to have a base, but if you want one, treat them as Monsters.
• Heroes fit on the relevant base – i.e. a model on foot will use a 20mm base. (unless it’s an Orc or other race that uses
larger bases for infantry, as noted). If you mount a character on a horse, he then is put on a 25mm by 50mm. Mount
them on something bigger like a Slasher/Griffon/Dragon etc, and they’ll be on a 50mm base. Again, if your Dragon needs
a bigger base, that’s fine.
KINGS OF WAR – OFFICIAL FAQs by Alessio Cavatore DECEMBER 2013
2
Basing
Q) The rulebook states: "These models must be glued on the bases provided with them and formed up into units as described
below." Is this to be taken literally forbidding unit basing and the like?
A) No, as long as the unit itself conforms to the correct size for the ranked up models (plus or minus a movement tray) then the
way the individual models are based does not matter.
Orc Basing
Q) Can Orcs be mounted on 20mm bases instead of 25mm ones? Can any infantry models be placed on either base size?
A) No to both questions. As stated above, models must be glued to the bases provided with them.

That's super helpful, thanks! And then are all infantry formations set at 5-wide? Or are hordes 10-wide?

Yeah. Hordes are 10-man wide. What you can do is base your models by ten ,then you can just configure them for the setup you want. You want a horde? Field 4 groups of 10 as a horde.

That makes prefect sense cheers!

 heartserenade wrote:
Yeah. Hordes are 10-man wide. What you can do is base your models by ten ,then you can just configure them for the setup you want. You want a horde? Field 4 groups of 10 as a horde.

It also depends on how deep it is as well.

For regiments and troops that's usually about 4 models deep. For troops that's 2 models. Unless that is with monsterous infantry, cavalry, large cavalry or chariots. Then you'll have Legions which IDK how they will work

Or just make sure that the movement tray has the correct footprint and then do what you like with the models on it. It's essentially Element Basing, as you would for DBM, DBA, FoW, etc.

 Azazelx wrote:
Or just make sure that the movement tray has the correct footprint and then do what you like with the models on it. It's essentially Element Basing, as you would for DBM, DBA, FoW, etc.

That's actually where I was going with this . From what I can see, there are only 3 widths for units:

5-wide
10-wide
3-wide monstrous infantry or cavalry

I know that the infantry and cavalry also depend on base size (most being 20mm and 40mm, but with a few exceptions that heartserenade listed above). I absolutely plan to do multi / scenic basing rather than individual ones, which is why I was asking about unit size

What's the general game size?

I saw a lot of mention of 1600 point games, but I skimmed the beta rules for 2nd edition and they seemed to be name-dropping 2000 points a lot...

That's because the 2nd lists basically upped the points on everything by 25%, so 1600 under the old rules is 2000 now. In terms of mini count, 1500-ish is about par for a 2k WFB list.