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Made in gb
Cog in the Machine





Nottingham

Greetings!

I love the new Skitarii models from GW but as you all know it was a rather small codex. Sadly the Cult Mechanicus models did not catch my fancy. So I decided that the Skitarii needed a tank that actually looked like a tank. Thus I have written this entry.

These are all experimental rules so please do give feedback if you think its too powerful/weak. I wanted it to be unique enough for it to stand out but still be balanced somewhat. A virtual cookie will be rewarded to anyone who can guess correctly where the tank model is actually from.


EDELWEISS TANK (180 POINTS)



The Adeptus Mechanicus after excavating the ruined lands of Gallia found a Standard Template Construct which they called Edelweiss after the flower that once bloomed on Gallia. The tech priests on Mars have found that the structural material consists of a rare ragnite alloy which gives it an extremely high strength to weight ratio. Its high defense and light weight hull makes it a devastating force on the battlefield.

The auto loader in the Edelweiss allows a quick succession of shots with pin point accuracy. The rapid fire shells with ragnite tips allow the Edelweiss to make short work of even the mighty Land Raider. For closer encounters the twinlinked flamer will reduce anyone to cinders.

An Edelweiss Tank is a Heavy Support choice for an Adeptus Mechanicus Army List.

BS: 4
Armour
Front: 14
Side: 13
Rear: 12
HP: 4

Unit Type:
-Vehicle (Tank, Fast)

Special Rules:
-Doctrine Imperatives
-Unstable Power cores
-Ragnite Alloy Armour Plates

War Gear
-Rapid Fire Anti-Tank Cannon
Range: 42"
S: 8
AP: 3
Type: Heavy 2, Specialty Shells
-Twinlinked Flamer
Range: Template
S: 4
AP: 5
Type: Assault 1, Flamer, Twinlinked

Ragnite Alloy Armour Plates
The sides and turret of the Edelweiss are heavily armoured with ragnite armour plates. Any Weapon Destroyed result on the Vehicle Damage Table that affects the Rapid-Fire Anti Tank Cannon is ignored. For clarification, the penetrating hit that triggered the Vehicle Damage will still cause the Edelweiss to lose a hull point. Any penetrating hits from the side armour are considered glancing hits instead.

Specialty Shells
The Edelweiss fires 2 armour piercing shells then an explosive shell in quick succession. If all 2 shots hit the target, one of the attacks gains Armourbane, Tank Hunter, Monster Hunter and AP1.

Unstable Power Cores
The Edelweiss is powered by a plasma based power core which is incredible light compared to the engines that run the Astra Militarum tanks. However this power core is so unstable that it has to be mounted outside of the hull or it would kill the crew within seconds. The power cores are mounted at the rear armour and a well-placed shot can overload the tank. Hits of 6 against the rear of the tank count as Haywire shots. Before hits are rolled for, the attacking player can choose not to have their attacks count as haywire.

Different effects for Doctrine Imperatives *had to do this since tanks don't have WS
Conqueror
• Gamma: Shrouded in 6” bubble
• Beta: Stealth in a 6” bubble, subtract 1 from ballistic skill
• Alpha: Stealth and Shrouded in a 6” bubble, subtract 2 from ballistic skill

Protector
• Gamma: Add 1 to ballistic skill
• Beta: Add 2 to ballistic skill, maximum movement of 6”
• Alpha: Add 3 to ballistic skill, cannot move


Thanks for reading this far!

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2015/08/02 17:48:32


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Snazzy. I like the general concept, and you've got some neat stuff there. A few things that occur to me:

*As worded, your Ragnite Alloy Armour Plates not only prevent a weapon destroyed result, but also ignore the hull point that would have gone with it. Is that intentional? It would make fluff-sense to keep it as is, but I worry it might be a "feel bad" rule for your opponents. Especially considering this tank can be pretty well protected with its Conqueror doctrines.

*Specialty shells are cool. I feel like you'll be hitting with both shots more often than not even without BS bonuses, but at your price point, that's probably not a bad thing.

*Unstable Power Cores. Awesome! I love rules that give models a weakness to exploit. That said, this tank doesn't have much motivation to *not* just stick its butt against a board edge, so this is really only going to come up in close combat. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it seems like it would be more fun to have it moving up the field. "Okay, this thing's land raider tough on the front and sides, but if I can just line up that rear shot..."

Also, the Haywire thing is actually technically a debuff for some weapons despite being a huge buff for most things. Meltaguns, for instance, would be unable to get an Explodes! result against rear armor, and anything that would auto-glance or auto-pen AV12 is less effective as a result of the power cores rule. This is easily fixed by changing the wording to give your opponent the option to make their attacks haywire before or after rolling to hit.

* Doctrines. I'm not very familiar with how they work yet, but these do make me a little iffy. Before we get into mechanics though, let's talk names. Your "conqueror" rules are defensive, and your "protector" rules are offensive. Which sort of makes sense if you're using the tank as a siege device while conquering and protecting your fortresses by making your tanks aim better, but it still seemed a bit funny to me.

Now, mechanics. I'm mostly fine with your Protector rules. The rapid fire shells rule feels a bit strange on something that can be made to basically auto-hit, but I'm still fine with a shot getting super-sized consistently at the price point you've set for this thing.

The Conqueror rules are what have me a little worried. As mentioned previously, this tank doesn't really have much incentive to not hug the board edge/cover except that doing so might interfere with lining up shots. I know vehicles don't get cover as easily as monstrous creatures, but setting a skitarii walker between this guy and the enemy's best guns seems pretty easy. Thus, it's pretty easy to make this a 4HP tank with AV 14 that downgrades pens to glances on its sides, and has a 3+ cover save on top of all that with a weakness you won't be able to take advantage of until you cross the entire board to reach it.

Beta doesn't seem as bad. You decrease your offense pretty significantly, but you can also get, say, a bunch of those walker tanks with the high strength blast a relatively good cover save through the use of cover/screening units. I like Beta.

I'm not as comfortable with Alpha. Alpha gives you a 4+ save out in the open on top of your other considerable defenses. Any amount of screening (say with a walker in front of you) makes that a 2+ cover save while still giving the walker at least a 4+ cover save. It does make your shooting much less scary, but anything that can hand out stealth and shrouded to everything around it makes me nervous. Could be cool to use in conjuction with scouting skitarii though. Run the rank up as fast as you can turn 1 to give a bunch of nearby infantry and striders 2+ and 4+ cover saves for a single turn. I'm not saying Alpha Conqueror is broken. I'm saying it makes me nervous. Someone more familiar with Doctrine rules would probably be less concerned than I am.

Overall, I think this is a great starting point for the tank's rules. I'm mostly worried about it ending up sitting in the back and shutting down most return fire with its cover saves and Ragnite Alloy Armour Plates while slinging nasty anti-tank shots around.

IHave you considered making the main gun actually behave like a rapid fire weapon? Obviously, just giving it the "rapid fire" weapon type doesn't work because tanks ignore that, but having a rule that makes it fire only a single shot at more than 21" gives you an incentive to move this tank up the table. You can still castle up with it and use it as a cover generator while slinging a single shot around if the situation calls for it, but you'll lose out on a lot of its offensive power.

By making it actually be "rapid fire," you give it a reason to roll up the table. Rolling up the table means it comes into range of more weapons that can brute force it to death, and it also increases the chances of something lining up a rear armor shot. This makes Protector more of a tough choice because your mobility might affect your ability to bring both shots to bare, and it makes Conqueror something that can bolster your forward forces rather than just giving you a frustrating castle of tanks in your backfield.

If you do make it "rapid fire," you could probably afford to up its range to 48" rather than 42".


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in de
Implacable Skitarii




Somewhere...

Eh, the Cognis Flamer is useless here, because the Cognis Flamer automatically causes 3 hits in Overwatch. But except Walkers, Vehicles cannot fire Overwatch, so...
Also, you should change the wording on the rule. Instead of "Any effects which remove the main turret from the Edelweiss are ignored", it should be "Any Weapon Destroyed result on the Vehicle Damage Table that affects the Rapid-Fire Anti Tank Cannon (?) is ignored".
Also, this is based on the Edelweiss tank from the Valkyria Chronicle game, so where is the mortar ?
Also, with all of these goodies it is a bit undercosted. I'd say 190-195 points is reasonable, but that is only my opinion.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/12 16:52:42


   
Made in gb
Cog in the Machine





Nottingham

Thanks for the feedback Wyldhunt!
*As worded, your Ragnite Alloy Armour Plates not only prevent a weapon destroyed result, but also ignore the hull point that would have gone with it. Is that intentional? It would make fluff-sense to keep it as is, but I worry it might be a "feel bad" rule for your opponents. Especially considering this tank can be pretty well protected with its Conqueror doctrines.

Wording mistake by me. Will change it to:
The sides and turret of the Edelweiss are heavily armoured with ragnite armour plates. Against the Edelweiss, the effect on the Vehicle Damage Table: Weapon Destroyed is always ignored, however the penetrating hit that triggered the Vehicle Damage will still cause it to lose a hull point. Any penetrating hits from the side armour are considered glancing hits instead.


This is easily fixed by changing the wording to give your opponent the option to make their attacks haywire before or after rolling to hit.

Good idea! Will make that change.


Doctrines. I'm not very familiar with how they work yet, but these do make me a little iffy

The doctrines have been defined in the Skitarii codex which are split into 2 groups: Protector and Conqueror. The protector doctrines increase BS and reduces WS, and vice versa for conqueror doctrines. There are 3 levels; Alpha, Beta and Gamma; making a total of 6 different effects and can only be used once. I have kept the bonuses for the BS the same but since vehicles don't have WS I had to come up with something new. So I decided on movement and cover save buffs.


frustrating castle of tanks in your backfield.

I will try to make sure that doesn't happen. I think your "rapidfire" idea would work, but something doesn't feel right about it.
   
Made in de
Implacable Skitarii




Somewhere...

Wyldhunt wrote:
Snazzy. I like the general concept, and you've got some neat stuff there. A few things that occur to me:
The Conqueror rules are what have me a little worried. As mentioned previously, this tank doesn't really have much incentive to not hug the board edge/cover except that doing so might interfere with lining up shots. I know vehicles don't get cover as easily as monstrous creatures, but setting a skitarii walker between this guy and the enemy's best guns seems pretty easy. Thus, it's pretty easy to make this a 4HP tank with AV 14 that downgrades pens to glances on its sides, and has a 3+ cover save on top of all that with a weakness you won't be able to take advantage of until you cross the entire board to reach it.

Beta doesn't seem as bad. You decrease your offense pretty significantly, but you can also get, say, a bunch of those walker tanks with the high strength blast a relatively good cover save through the use of cover/screening units. I like Beta.

I'm not as comfortable with Alpha. Alpha gives you a 4+ save out in the open on top of your other considerable defenses. Any amount of screening (say with a walker in front of you) makes that a 2+ cover save while still giving the walker at least a 4+ cover save. It does make your shooting much less scary, but anything that can hand out stealth and shrouded to everything around it makes me nervous. Could be cool to use in conjuction with scouting skitarii though. Run the rank up as fast as you can turn 1 to give a bunch of nearby infantry and striders 2+ and 4+ cover saves for a single turn. I'm not saying Alpha Conqueror is broken. I'm saying it makes me nervous. Someone more familiar with Doctrine rules would probably be less concerned than I am.

Overall, I think this is a great starting point for the tank's rules. I'm mostly worried about it ending up sitting in the back and shutting down most return fire with its cover saves and Ragnite Alloy Armour Plates while slinging nasty anti-tank shots around.


Each Doctrina Imperatives level (Alpha, Beta, Gamma) can only be used once per game.

   
Made in gb
Cog in the Machine





Nottingham

Eh, the Cognis Flamer is useless here, because the Cognis Flamer automatically causes 3 hits in Overwatch. But except Walkers, Vehicles cannot fire Overwatch, so...
Also, you should change the wording on the rule. Instead of "Any effects which remove the main turret from the Edelweiss are ignored", it should be "Any Weapon Destroyed result on the Vehicle Damage Table that affects the Rapid-Fire Anti Tank Cannon (?) is ignored".
Also, this is based on the Edelweiss tank from the Valkyria Chronicle game, so where is the mortar ?
Also, with all of these goodies it is a bit undercosted. I'd say 190-195 points is reasonable, but that is only my opinion.


Ahh, completely forgot that vehicles can't fire overwatch. Will make that change and feel bad.

And yes!!! It is from that Valkyria Chronicles! Here is a cookie for you!



I thought of adding different type of shells, so it could fire anti-tank, mortar and smokes. Much like the game, but I decided that it would be too good to have access to all of those things.

I thought 180 points would be okay since it doesn't actually do too much damage. Only firing 2 shoots a turn. But I shall raise the point value if more people agree that it's too low.
   
Made in us
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Catskills in NYS

Nothing to do with rules, but I love how you painted it. It fits so well I had a double take at first.

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preston

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Valkyria Chronicles is one of only two-three Anime which has made me cry. I loved that anime even if it did destroy my heart.

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