Dark Angels Rumors thread: Update 11/25

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**Yojiro**

Vladsimpaler wrote:
VardenV2 wrote:

I sincerely hope that he doesn't have a 2++ permanent invul save. Even if it was something like a once per game activation liek Ghaz has etc that'd be decent. Belial should be a totally killface character considering he is the captain of one of the best terminator companies in the 40k universe. He is very lackluster in the current rendition. I would love to see him as a much less common choice but with beefier rules, making the army about him, similar to Mephiston etc. As such, I would consider him to be at least 200 points if he gets 3-4 wounds, 2+ 4++ (or whatever is standard) Eternal warrior and a Str 6 power sword and storm bolter + other buffs. Lysander is 200 points and I would hope he would be around the same power level and role as him.

I wouldn't mind if he was like Lysander but anything more than that is pretty ridiculous. He's lackluster currently but he's only 130 points, for that amount he's actually pretty good considering what he does for the army and what he comes with as standard. Of course, his stats are a holdover from 4th edition so yeah I would expect something a little bit better.

Indeed, for 130 pts he actually makes a Codex somewhat viable... that's ridiculously cost effective in my book!

**VardenV2**

Yojiro wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
VardenV2 wrote:

I sincerely hope that he doesn't have a 2++ permanent invul save. Even if it was something like a once per game activation liek Ghaz has etc that'd be decent. Belial should be a totally killface character considering he is the captain of one of the best terminator companies in the 40k universe. He is very lackluster in the current rendition. I would love to see him as a much less common choice but with beefier rules, making the army about him, similar to Mephiston etc. As such, I would consider him to be at least 200 points if he gets 3-4 wounds, 2+ 4++ (or whatever is standard) Eternal warrior and a Str 6 power sword and storm bolter + other buffs. Lysander is 200 points and I would hope he would be around the same power level and role as him.

I wouldn't mind if he was like Lysander but anything more than that is pretty ridiculous. He's lackluster currently but he's only 130 points, for that amount he's actually pretty good considering what he does for the army and what he comes with as standard. Of course, his stats are a holdover from 4th edition so yeah I would expect something a little bit better.

Indeed, for 130 pts he actually makes a Codex somewhat viable... that's ridiculously cost effective in my book!

Oh, he's very cost effective but for his "fluff" background he is not as good as he should be. He SHOULD be an expensive but powerful character. Not a tax on DW troops so you can unlock cool stuff. He is coming off of 4th edition where he was more on par with characters. Now he is basically a captain in terminator armor that unlocks stuff for a reasonably cheap amount of points.

If the rumors are true he is going in the direction he should be going, however, I feel like maybe a little too far. He should not be able to be beating up Abaddon, Logan, Marneus Calgar (debatable

) and other chapter masters. I'd say he should be a tough, killy, support character like Lysander etc. Buff his homies and dish out the pain when he needs to.

-VardenV2

**fidel**

Ok. So with all the feedback on Belial this is what I am getting:

Belial
WS 6
BS 6
S 4
T 4
W 4
I 5
A 5
LD 10
SV 2+/ 5++ (3++ with storm shield)

Special Rules: Eternal Warrior, Master of Deathwing, Fearless

Wears Terminator armor and carries Sword of Secrets (Relic Blade that grants +2S, AP 2, and does something awesome - like every kill allows his group to do one attack at normal strength immediately - Think hammer of wrath like ability but for every kill he does). Can either carry a plasma Pistol or a Storm Shield at no extra cost.

Master of Deathwing - Unlocks a personal retinue of Deathwing Warriors, all handpicked from the worst grizzled warzones of Deathwing (Basically these guys are Deathwing with one more wound - Paladin "esque"). When Deathwing assaulting, has the Heroic Intervention rule with his squad.

**Hrontore Da Death Bringer**

@ Above Doesn't sound too bad. Attack/ wounds maybe high. 7 on charge w/o SS? 5 base+ 1 charge+1 Extra CCW. that spells a lotta hurt all at AP 2 too.( Thought PS were AP 3?Or are Relics upped to Ap 2?) he'll be expexsive to say the least but heading in a direction where he should be IMO. Though probably not final come print time.

**VardenV2**

fidel wrote:
Ok. So with all the feedback on Belial this is what I am getting:

Belial
WS 6
BS 6
S 4
T 4
W 4
I 5
A 5
LD 10
SV 2+/ 5++ (3++ with storm shield)

Special Rules: Eternal Warrior, Master of Deathwing, Fearless

Wears Terminator armor and carries Sword of Secrets (Relic Blade that grants +2S, AP 2, and does something awesome - like every kill allows his group to do one attack at normal strength immediately - Think hammer of wrath like ability but for every kill he does). Can either carry a plasma Pistol or a Storm Shield at no extra cost.

Master of Deathwing - Unlocks a personal retinue of Deathwing Warriors, all handpicked from the worst grizzled warzones of Deathwing (Basically these guys are Deathwing with one more wound - Paladin "esque"). When Deathwing assaulting, has the Heroic Intervention rule with his squad.

This ruleset would be awesome. But I'd tone his attacks down to 4. And give him a SB or combi-plasma. OR keep his attacks high but make his attacks AP3 like all swords. So it's basically a maul with AP3 instead, which is great. I think he would have an Iron Halo equivalent so a 4++ save but no storm shield. Id put his points at around 225 with these stats. He's pretty beast like this, especially if in a squad with banner and apoth granting FNP.

-VardenV2

**MightyGodzilla**

The new rumors since mylast post are just awesome. Even from the new models.perspective.
:;
Old Sword of Secrets vs. Relic Blade (Codex creep) - I believe that the SoS didn't count as a 2handed weapon, so Azrael got his +1 attack for his bolt pistol. And it's mastercrafted. IMO the SoS is still better than the RB. Why make it Str x2 (8)? Well it's unique first off, so you're not going to be seeing a shitton of them. And IMO they would do it because the leader of the DA should be be to go H2H with a Wraithlord, a Swarmlord, a DaemonPrince, or other high toughness model that comes down the line with an average or better chance of wounding. There's less of an argument if he'd had a Thunder Hammer, but the DA's are swordy in their fluff, so I can suspend disbelief a little for one item. Don't know why he'd need more than Artificer armor though....the Lion's Helm makes it better than TDA.

**pretre**

Stickmonkey on BOLS wrote:TROOPS:

Deathwing Terminators - Same general layout as we have now, but with additional Plasma Cannon and Autocannon heavy weapon options.

Tactical Squads - The old classics we all love, moving on...

Ravenwing Bike Squad - Up to ten bikers, for each 5 bikes, you may upgrade one to an Attack bike. Attack bike gunner options are: HB, MM, HF, Twin-linked Plasmagun!. Squad can Combat Squad and has Teleport Homers.

FAST ATTACK:

Ravenwing Landspeeder Support Squad - Same as now, but gunner option are: HB, MM, HF, Twin-linked Plasmagun!

Ravenwing Bike Support Squad - Full Attack Bike unit (could also be a duplicate report of the TROOPS Bike Squad)

Assault Squad - Same old classic jump-pack squad we have now.

Ravenclaw Air Superiority Fighter - Dual "Reaper Cannons" allowing Snap Shots on flyers. Can be replaced with 2x Missiles, or 2x Plasma Cannons.

**Marthike**

pretre wrote:
Stickmonkey on BOLS wrote:TROOPS:

Deathwing Terminators - Same general layout as we have now, but with additional Plasma Cannon and Autocannon heavy weapon options.

Tactical Squads - The old classics we all love, moving on...

Ravenwing Bike Squad - Up to ten bikers, for each 5 bikes, you may upgrade one to an Attack bike. Attack bike gunner options are: HB, MM, HF, Twin-linked Plasmagun!. Squad can Combat Squad and has Teleport Homers.

FAST ATTACK:

Ravenwing Landspeeder Support Squad - Same as now, but gunner option are: HB, MM, HF, Twin-linked Plasmagun!

Ravenwing Bike Support Squad - Full Attack Bike unit (could also be a duplicate report of the TROOPS Bike Squad)

Assault Squad - Same old classic jump-pack squad we have now.

Ravenclaw Air Superiority Fighter - Dual "Reaper Cannons" allowing Snap Shots on flyers. Can be replaced with 2x Missiles, or 2x Plasma Cannons.

Allowing snap fire in flyers? I thought flyers get skyfire rule? maybe I am wrong

**ShatteredBlade**

Sooo...there any rumors here yet?

**Skipphag da Devoura**

Marthike wrote:
pretre wrote:
Stickmonkey on BOLS wrote:TROOPS:

Deathwing Terminators - Same general layout as we have now, but with additional Plasma Cannon and Autocannon heavy weapon options.

Tactical Squads - The old classics we all love, moving on...

Ravenwing Bike Squad - Up to ten bikers, for each 5 bikes, you may upgrade one to an Attack bike. Attack bike gunner options are: HB, MM, HF, Twin-linked Plasmagun!. Squad can Combat Squad and has Teleport Homers.

FAST ATTACK:

Ravenwing Landspeeder Support Squad - Same as now, but gunner option are: HB, MM, HF, Twin-linked Plasmagun!

Ravenwing Bike Support Squad - Full Attack Bike unit (could also be a duplicate report of the TROOPS Bike Squad)

Assault Squad - Same old classic jump-pack squad we have now.

Ravenclaw Air Superiority Fighter - Dual "Reaper Cannons" allowing Snap Shots on flyers. Can be replaced with 2x Missiles, or 2x Plasma Cannons.

Allowing snap fire in flyers? I thought flyers get skyfire rule? maybe I am wrong

Regardless of whether or not Flyers automatically get Skyfire... If it's an "Air Superiority Fighter", why is it not very good at shooting at Flyers? Seems like it would be an Air Inferiority Fighter, if it's only hitting on Snap Shot...

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

It's probably just the standard

shoot at ground targets at full BS AND snap fire at flyers

or shoot flyers at full BS etc

**ShatteredBlade**

Huh, Ravenclaw flier. That sounds..possible actually.

**Kroothawk**

Seems Stickmonkey indeed prefers to post his rumours on BOLS now, where he can't be trolled by Avian:

Stickmonkey on BOLS wrote:SM here, good day BOLS from the far side of the world... Some new small bits to clarify:

Raven's Claw is apparently a nickname or playtest name of the fighter, sounds like this is not the final name.

The snapfire only applies to this rumored reaper cannon on the fighter when firing "full auto" as a Heavy 12 cannon to balance it. Again, according to playtest notes.

TL plasma guns on some models will make their way to standard C:SM

**wyomingfox**

...now I got to go to BOLS for rumors...what is the world coming to?

**pretre**

wyomingfox wrote:
...now I got to go to BOLS for rumors...what is the world coming to?

Nah, just come here and ignore BOLS.

**TalonZahn**

pretre wrote:
wyomingfox wrote:
...now I got to go to BOLS for rumors...what is the world coming to?

Nah, just come here and ignore BOLS.

Nonsense.

You come here to get rumors, but don't believe them until they are reposted (uncredited to Dakka of course) on BoLS.

That's how you do it.

**Dysartes**

Kroothawk wrote:
Seems Stickmonkey indeed prefers to post his rumours on BOLS now, where he can't be trolled by Avian

Dude was getting trolled for reporting what he hears? And by Avian of all people? Sheesh...

**Salacious Greed**

So, to make the 12 shot reaper cannon balanced, we'll make it snap fire at flyers. So, statistics say 2 of 12 will hit. But to be worthwhile, those shots will need to be str 6 w/ rending, or str 8 really, as most flyers have AV 12 that they present to be shot.

But a str 6 or higher gun getting 12 shots at ground guys w/ a likely marine bs of 4 is balanced? yikes. Are my kids writing this codex?

And to the guy who asked, I agree that it sounds like an Air Inferiority Fighter. Yay.

**Yojiro**

Salacious Greed wrote:

And to the guy who asked, I agree that it sounds like an Air Inferiority Fighter. Yay.

No no, it's to give your enemy Air Superiority! Think of "You can't fire me, I quit!"

**pretre**

via Nickolas94 via Warseer wrote:
The release date is between 15 January and 15 February u.u Source: friend with an inner informer. This is the reason of so much information in this period.

**UltraPrime**

That will be the first Sat of Feb then, as all big releases are.

**whalemusic360**

Salacious Greed wrote:
So, to make the 12 shot reaper cannon balanced, we'll make it snap fire at flyers. So, statistics say 2 of 12 will hit. But to be worthwhile, those shots will need to be str 6 w/ rending, or str 8 really, as most flyers have AV 12 that they present to be shot.

But a str 6 or higher gun getting 12 shots at ground guys w/ a likely marine bs of 4 is balanced? yikes. Are my kids writing this codex?

And to the guy who asked, I agree that it sounds like an Air Inferiority Fighter. Yay.

Anyone think maybe it snapfires at ground units, and fires full bs at flyers? The would lend to the Air Superiority part.

**MasterSlowPoke**

UltraPrime wrote:
That will be the first Sat of Feb then, as all big releases are.

Or, more likely, this dude is talking out of his ass and is hoping for a false positive.

**B3AN**

ShatteredBlade wrote:
Huh, Ravenclaw flier. That sounds..possible actually.

I just want you to know that every time I read one of your posts I hear it in Dr. K's voice lol.

**Hrontore Da Death Bringer**

heavy 12 sounds cool but a lil far fetched, but a flier snap shooting other fliers is a lil weird to say the least. i agree with whale on the snap fire on troops much more likely.this thing sounds like A-10 vulcan mega canon on crack. glad to see new rumors coming down the pipe.

also 10 bikers!? i hope they drop in price or thats a huge point sink

**Brother SRM**

Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:

also 10 bikers!? i hope they drop in price or thats a huge point sink

Look at the Chaos BIkers. They're cheap, like low-20s points a guy now.

**Ralis**

I'm surprised no one has put this up yet:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/11/ravenwing-units-black-knights-and-dark.html

**pretre**

That's because it is pure speculation.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

via the Faeit 212 inbox from Carl (name altered because I do not have permission to use it) wrote:

Just reading ravenwing book at blacklibary weekender ravenwing might not get jetbikes still says the technology Is lost but a land speeder called dark shrouds which obscure the area to protect other craft dark talons with hurricane bolters and land speeders with plasma cannons all feature early on also nephilim fighters weather they are in the new codex I don't know but are defo in the book

The new units in the ravenwing book are black knights they ride bikes and have plasma weapons and hammers with a ravens beak on the back they are the sammeal's elites and are almost ready for the deathwing also the deathshourd land speeders which use relics for the tower of angels attached to power generators to project a veil of darkness ahead of there squadron to protect there units and vengance class speeders with plasma cannons. Flyers seem to be dark talons which have hurricane bolters and nephilim fighters. The book is fantastic also. Was told when I asked if they would be in the codex that it was researched very deeply!

So basically, it is one of Natfka's anonymous sources...

**Hrontore Da Death Bringer**

Brother SRM wrote:
Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:

also 10 bikers!? i hope they drop in price or thats a huge point sink

Look at the Chaos BIkers. They're cheap, like low-20s points a guy now.

I mean i'm happy for more bikes. 200pts for 10 bikes sounds awsome plus any other odds and ends you throw on.

**Cyrax**

Stickmonkey wrote:HEAVY SUPPORT:

Predator - Plasma and "Reaper Cannon" new main gun option, no new sponson options - new model kit possible (and the Predator is kind of an old kit).

Whirlwind - Flakk missile option.

Land Raider - Dark Angels get all the current Imperial types. Deathwing can take then at dedicated transports.

Dreadnought - The classics that we know and love, moving on...

Devastator Squad - Flakk missile option.

Vindicator - Nothing new here...

Siege Cannon - Techmarine's mortar-like cannon. Multiple sources speak of this model being somehow interchangable with Imperial Guard artillery kits to round out the last missing models. ~Editor's note: the Griffon perhaps?

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:

Rhino - Standard rules.

Razorback - Standard rules, new updated model kit with ALL turret weapons options mentioned.

Land Raider - Deathwing Terminators ONLY.

Land Speeder Storm - Scouts only.

Battle Bunker - from the Wall of Martyrs kit.

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?24243-DA-Rumours