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The eldar revenant titan, just the name brings to mind images of death and destruction almost too terrible to comprehend. But, is that thought as justified as some would think? I'm going to break down the beast and see how it ACTUALLY compares to other monsters in its category to see where its points lie.

Armor value 12/12/10 when you look at these numbers, you think medium tank, maybe heavy skimmer. You certainly aren't thinking 9 hullpoints superheavy walker. The primary defense the revenant has is the eldar titan holofield. The holofield is the only thing in the game that stops a 6 on the destroyer table because it actually negates the original hit. It is a 50% chance (if the revenant moved, 33% otherwise) of negating anything in the game. In the old vehicle design rules, it worked differently but it costed 25 points per facing meaning the current rendition is 100 points. If you spent those exact same points on improving the armor value it would be an av 14/13/13 walker, or if you spent it on hullpoints it would have 12. The survivability is in line with other giant robots in the game, so that can't be where the issue lies with it, lets look at weapons.

The pulsar is a strength D large blast that fires twice at 60". The revenant has two of them. It also has a str5 ap3 heavy 3 missile launcher for lesser targets. The pulsar is a primary weapon, which does nothing for it due to strD not rolling to pen. The primary benefit I see for the pulsar is there are no points wasted on its capability on your average table. Every other strength D titan class weapon has at least a 6foot range advantage on it. The weapon system it carries is designed to be at a disadvantage in truly epic games that would cover the floor of a large hall. On your average table every point spent by say a shadowsword to double that distance is wasted. That means the armament on the the revenant is actually balanced against every other weapon of its class in points, it just happens to be the most efficient option among them on a smaller table.

Now speed. We've seen that the revenant has a much shorter range then most of its counterparts, how does it actually challenge them in the big spaces they seem to all be designed for? The answer is the revenant jump jets. They allow the revenant to move 36" in a single bound, letting it close the gap and bring the fight to its enemies. The other thing it has for speed is the agile rule, which allows it to forgo some shooting that turn to run once or twice depending on how many shots you sacrifice. The issue is it also allows support elements to retaliate. Again, bringing the need for better defense by way of holofield back to the fore. so the blinding speed of the revenant is actually the way it counters the other giant robots in its class' range advantage in the giant games it was originally designed to play in, but on your average table it can actually allow it to simply leap away from its primary counter in smaller games, melee units

To break it down, I will show (with my vehicle design rules) where its points are actually spent.

Armor value: 30 points
9 hullpoints superheavy walker (with all that entails): 200 points
Titan holofield: 100 points
Two pulsars: 185 points each
Revenant missile launcher: 20 points
Revenant jumpjets: 165 points
Agile: 15 points

Making the revenant 900 points. On a battlefield larger than 12 feet accross, against other giant units you will see how balanced the revenant is in regards to points. It is simply the fact that it's weaknesses don't exist on an average sized table.

So, what do you think?

I think that I have told 2 separate Eldar players at two different stores to go away when they suggested an 1850 game and then after about 15-30 minutes of setup pulled out that titan and sat it on the table.


They shouldn't be allowed to play on an average board for the obvious reasons that they are the absolute BEST unit in the game on a standard board. I have never seen a titan battle on a larger board but im sure that it is balanced somehow, but I really wouldn't care to play that style of game since my biggest unit is my Morkanaut.

I always thought the Rev should have been given JSJ rules

I have 2 of them ask other guy if he feels like taking 1 on ( they only come out for Apoc or Campign games) Some time i get people wanting to take both them on.

I don't get it. So you're saying that it's not OP in the title but you just listed a bunch of reasons why it is OP.

So it is balanced because it is weak on a rarely used battlefield condition, against models that are even less rarely fielded than it.

I really can't tell if this is satire or not.

Really it's the way the holoshield works in my opinion, perhaps the speed it can move as well. If you give it another save, they stack because of the way it does so it would have 2 chances to negate damage. Besides that it's sort of overhyped.

The thing about the titan is if you can manage (this is where its speed makes it strong as well) to get it into combat with anything with reasonable durability then it's stuck there until it dies for the rest of the game. Honestly I'd never use mine unless it was the only thing I was fielding and my opponent knew or we all agreed to play apoc. It belongs in fights with stuff like warhounds, thunderhawks, and where knights are the cannon fodder.

That's the thing, superheavies of this size weren't designed for the table size we normally play on. Making most of them inefficient on that size table. The revenant has rules to allow it to compete with similar units by using speed to mitigate its relatively short range. On small tables those things are more potent because the range is already limited by game space.

The revenant isn't undercosted, it just shouldn't be on smaller tables. It gives the illusion of being stronger than its points would suggest.

So, you're saying that units that were originally intended for Apocalypse games are overpowered in standard 40k? That's been known for awhile. Warhound Titans are a good example of this too.

But warhounds are balanced. You just need one of your own, invisibility going off and the opposing hounde dies turn 2. Seems balanced. Probably the same with the eldar titan, no I can't say it with a stright face. 5 people with recast titans almost killed the community in my city, and ended with an outright ban on anything FW or escalation. Still didn't bring back the 40+people that left though.

Warhound titans with the double barrel turbolaser destructors are actually 200 points undercosted.

The point is was trying to make is that the revenant is the only titan level unit in the game that isn't wasting points due to table size. That makes it appear stronger than its contemporaries in normal games. All of the units out there follow the same math for survivability, some are given points adjustments based on weaponry. When you use the volcano cannon from the shadowsword as the baseline for all blast level strD in the game you find the point of reference needed for balancing all of that class of weapon.

...so its not paying for apoc level range, like other SH/GC, which does not penalize it at 40k vanilla scale...

making it an undercost/OP tourney unit

It makes it more efficient. That's all. It pays for every ability it has, nowhere does it seem to have a points discrepancy with other similar costed units. If something pays the proper amount of points for toughness 7 I have no issue with it being a viable counter to strength 3.

The issue actually lies in some other units paying for range they don't need. If you want a quick and dirty fix, subtract 7 points from a unit for every foot the weapon has of range beyond 6. Do that for every weapon and you'll see much better mileage of points from things like the hydra and basilisk.

 curran12 wrote:
So it is balanced because it is weak on a rarely used battlefield condition, against models that are even less rarely fielded than it.

I really can't tell if this is satire or not.

Pretty much what Curran said, if a unit is conditionally weak in X and Y circumstances THAT NEVER HAPPEN, then it is not weak.

Conversely if it is OP in B and C conditions that are commonplace and standard, then it is OP.

EDIT: Why this thread all of a sudden?

Titans can be brought down by lucky lists with lots of good anti tank MSU.
I played against a revenant titan and killed it with my orks, but I would not enjoy to play against it more then once a year.

The reason for the thread all of the sudden was someone mentioned the revenant as op in another thread so I decided to check it again.

The only time something can be overpowered or too weak is when it is mathematically skewed one way or another. The wraithknight is overpowered because it is not paying for the survivability it brings to the table, for example. Add 100 points and it isn't as big a deal anymore.

The issue with the revenant is it is built in a way that makes it viable on the table size we normally use, as such it is the most powerful (points wise) unit in that category making it incredibly efficient in a normal game of 40k. Drop the D weapons to doing d3+3 hullpoints/wounds on a 6 and it will no longer trump all of the other superheavies that are competing on the the small table with it due to a lucky die roll.

So, it's not OP if you house rule D weapons? That still doesn't mean it's not OP. You're talking a lot of hypotheticals that do not apply to the realities of 40k.

It is not op period. If you did want to tone down the carnage big monsters like this bring you could use the aforementioned fix for strength D to allow the big boys a chance to survive the enemies first salvo. That's the only thing that would be a viable fix.

A 900 point unit SHOULD do the kind of damage the revenant is capable of, it's 900 points. Literally half of an 1850 point list.

It is simply efficient, not over powered.

Only 100pts for Eldar Titan Holofields?!?!

I don't think you've thought this through in an impartial way.

If the holofields gave it an invuln save i'd agree - but that mechanic of potentially ingoring any ranged attack from any position as well as having cover saves afterwards is truly absurd.

I'm coming at this argument from the perspective of owning a warhound titan with a plasma blastgun and a TBTLD - potent and fluffy.
I was pleased to see that in 30k my 2 void shields don't have a minimum range anymore and now i can roll a dice for each lost shield at the end of the turn to get it back up on a 5+ - can you see how potent your holo-fields are now?
They cannot be avoided, they will never collapse (even when hit and damaged!) and work against everything with equal effectiveness.

There isn't even a mechanic to show that if your enemies forces saturate the area with fire they can work out which image of that titan is real for a turn!
I think that it should be re-named 'Eldar Titan Stupefaction Field' where even superhuman legion astartes can't seem to work out which image is real despite watching shots ping off/go through it, while standing next to the thing.

And you're trying to say that it's not OP??


Polite Trolling is still Trolling, dude.

And people want the Ta'unar to cost the same.

PS: I smell morgoth in this thread!

It's almost like a high tier world of war ships battleship, granted a team of lower cruisers could kill it with torps, destroyer smoke screens and us cruisers doing fast gun runs but it would not be much fun and the battleship would spend the game one shotting the smaller ships as they have to dodge all the hits.


Some things are just too big and powerful for a normal game.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:


Making the revenant 900 points. On a battlefield larger than 12 feet accross, against other giant units you will see how balanced the revenant is in regards to points. It is simply the fact that it's weaknesses don't exist on an average sized table.

So, what do you think?

So if I double the size of my gaming table (which I can't because I live in a house, not a warehouse), bring other equally overpowered equivalents like a Reaver Titan, and play an enormous battle, the Revenant *might* balance itself out?

TL;DR, you want me to play apocalypse.

anyway in some tournaments where all manner of extreme lists go on that would not even be legal if they had a 25% Lord of war/superhevey limit.

The speed is the killer - shooting 2 different targets with the D weapons then firing missiles at a third you intend to charge (and stomp!) is nuts! Then, unlike the warhound, if you corner it, it can just jump away - meaning it tends to only be engaged by units it wants to be engaged by.

Combined with holofields, a skyshield and a nearby farseer with fortune or (heaven forbid) invisibility and the game becomes pointless at sub 5k.

I tabled a 3k guard list with a single revenant on a 8x6 table against 3 IG super heavies and half a dozen russ after he said he thought he could take it - and I did not run it with the skyshield or farseer. He is building a reaver right now for our next game at 10k against my pair of revenants and he still says he does not like his chances!

Eldar titan holofield is 100 points, voidshields are only 35. Titan holofield will stop half of the shots thrown at it, the two voidshields will stop two guaranteed.

The revenant was made with huge space and other equally powerful units in mind. It is a giant bully in a normal game, that doesn't mean it isn't paying points for the ability to do so.

As for the other saves, it would have to be a HUGE piece of terrain to give cover, and anyone fielding it on a skyshield landing pad would have a hard time getting me to believe it is moving to get the 4++. As for the psychic defense available, every superheavy in the game besides the necron, tau, and ork ones have access to the same chance.

8x6 doesn't cut it table size in a titan level fight. 6x12 if you deploy on the the short edges will. If you play that scenario with the imperial guard again, try making the 6 result a d3+3 instead. Strength D needs toned down a bit, but that is true of all strength D in the game.

Just because something is "fair" in one set of circumstances, does not mean it is actually balanced.

Wraithknights are appropriately costed if all of its opponents fielded drop-podding grav spam. That does not mean the WK is balanced.

What he is saying is that GW priced the Revenant based on the assumption of a large playing space, and that if that condition is met then the Revenant is fairly priced.

Not that the Revenant is fairly priced in some absolute sense, or in the conditions of a standard game. (Jump troop infantry aren't either.)

Now you're being flippant - Eldar titan holofield can never be taken down by small arms fire, a player who isn't ignorant of thier own rules will move the thing 1" because all the rule asks for is 'moved' not moved by a certain distance and applying your own percieved points values to existing profiles is merely trying to distract the rebuttals from the fact that giving the reveneant titan extra distance before the opposition can get to them is a tactical advantage FOR it.

To take on your argument about the amount of shots each method can take - its going to be two thirds of ALL shooting directed at it which will do nothing, so taking three shots at it will negate the same amount as the warhounds fully functional void shields, but your holo-fields are still working afterwards.

Being able to restore void shields is a one in three chance and anyone with a head still attached will use small arms fire to take out the void shields and then aim the 'D' at the now unprotected warhound. Assuming the warhound survives, it [just becomes easier to make it unprotected.

I remember we once played a 6k a side game, and the eldar player brought a Titan.

The rest of us didn't have to do much the whole game, the Titan just cleaned up shop. This was using 6th edition D weapons. And it was just for fun, it was a horriblly one sided affair.

I think you underestimate how good the Revenant's mobility is. 36 fething inches in the movement phase?! And can JSJ while firing one of its weapons?