Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Which Daemons can be used in 30k?

I'd like to do a Word Bearers or Daemons but have no access to lots of books to find out.

Thanks.

These two Forgeworld downloads are a good start:

Corbax Utterblight

Samus

Basically, taking one of these disgusting fellows allows you to field them as a HQ in a 30k pure Dæmons army, using anything in Codex Chaos Dæmons (including the colossal FW greater Dæmons).

You'll be using the Age of Darkness rules which are more aking to 5th edition 40k and are slightly different to 7th edition vanilla rules:

- Strict Force Org - No detachment or formations or unbound
- Restrictions on Lords of War - max 25% total of points and can't be used under 2000 points
- Only troops are scoring
- Dæmons fear is a lot more potent - Marines don't have ATSKNF

There's more changes and I don't have the books in reach to give a comprehensive list. Recommend that you pick up one the Forgeworld Horus Heresy books at the very least, probably the next release of the revamped red books.

Thanks very much, so Daemons is a ligitimate army on its own?

Ajroo wrote:
Thanks very much, so Daemons is a ligitimate army on its own?

Basically, yes. they have their own LoW's and can be allied as battle brothers with 2 of the 30k armies as well.

 Brennonjw wrote:

Ajroo wrote:
Thanks very much, so Daemons is a ligitimate army on its own?

Basically, yes. they have their own LoW's and can be allied as battle brothers with 2 of the 30k armies as well.

two of them? Do you mean the militia cults army list in book 5 or are WBs not the only legion that can do that?

You can field Daemons as:

1) Their own army. They are legal to take as an Age of Darkness Force Organisation. You won't, however, be allowed to take Allies to a Daemons primary detachment, as they don't appear on the Allies Matrix.

2) As allies. Word Bearers (given the right HQ choice) and Imperialis Militia (given a Force Commander with the right Provenance) are specifically given permission to take an allied detachment of Daemons.



The major things to note:

1) You will be using the Age of Darkness primary detachment. This gives you an extra HQ choice for all those lovely heralds!

2) You won't be summoning anything in the psychic phase. The Horus Heresy rules explicitely prohibit generating Malefic Daemonology unless you are either a Word Bearers Librarian or Lorgar Transfigured.

3) Samus and Corbax both have the unique Warlord Trait Lord Of The Ruinstorm. This is an awesome ability which combines an instability test reroll, removing the worst result from the warp storm table, and tripling the chance of getting one of the best.

4) Most things are actually susceptible to Fear. Which is a novel experience.

5) Oh, dear holy God volkite weapons and thud guns murder light infantry.

6) With only troops being scoring you need a decent block of warrior daemons to take and hold objectives.

As most 30k Marine lists don't include librarians you'll own the psychic phase majority of the time so its well worth exploiting this.

Indeed.

Daemons will suffer a lot from the ridiculous firepower heresy armies can put out - one Fury Of The Legion rapid fire from ten marines will functionally destroy a ten-strong warrior daemon pack, and they're your only scoring unit....

I'd almost break your army into two elements. Since only troops can take objectives, by far your best choice is nurgle daemons.

Plaguebearers and Nurglings dug into cover on or near an objective are a bugger to shift.

Meanwhile, the big boys - greater daemons, blight drones, etc - are best used going for the enemy to kill them, contest their objectives, or at least force your opponent to kill them rather than taking out the troops choices that actually win you the game.

Greater Daemons are pretty nasty because few people will be armed for Monstrous Creature and a greater daemon can take anything short of a primarch and stand a decent chance of badly injuring even one of them.

If you're taking Samus, bring a decent block of either Skull Cannons or Soulgrinders with the Phlegm mawcannon - he'll probably arrive on turn 2, and you want the maximum possible options, which means throwing large blasts into your opponent's squads to kill characters so you can use the Born Of Murder rule.

Cor'Bax is also best used deep striking - with Daemon Of Nurgle and only a 6" move, you can't afford for him to waddle slowly across the board - not when he's over 300 points worth and your warlord, and a tyrant siege terminator squad or a shatter-shell thudd battery can probably kill him in 2-3 turns of fire.

Get him down, get him biomanced up, and start pounding dudes. He's less flexible than Samus - less able to stop a walker, for example, and with fewer attacks and no super-fear for dealing with hordes.

locarno24 wrote:
1) You will be using the Age of Darkness primary detachment. This gives you an extra HQ choice for all those lovely heralds!

Squee! 12 Heralds! the weight of the warp charge dice alone would kill most opponents!

2) You won't be summoning anything in the psychic phase. The Horus Heresy rules explicitely prohibit generating Malefic Daemonology unless you are either a Word Bearers Librarian or Lorgar Transfigured.

Actually, the Rogue Psyker that can be taken as Imperialis Militia is able to use Malefic

amalys11 wrote:

2) You won't be summoning anything in the psychic phase. The Horus Heresy rules explicitely prohibit generating Malefic Daemonology unless you are either a Word Bearers Librarian or Lorgar Transfigured.

Actually, the Rogue Psyker that can be taken as Imperialis Militia is able to use Malefic

So can Zardu Layak from the Word Bearers army. He's a daemon as well, so you perils like normal, instead of on all doubles

Seems like an oversight on forgeworld's part that daemons can't use demonology.

 Powerfisting wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
1) You will be using the Age of Darkness primary detachment. This gives you an extra HQ choice for all those lovely heralds!

Squee! 12 Heralds! the weight of the warp charge dice alone would kill most opponents!

No, still only 4. It's 4 in total, not 4 per.

It does mean you can take 2 GDs/DPs or take the Scribes or Masque (not that you'd really want to with those last 2...)

I may be misunderstanding you, but heralds can be taken in groups of 4 per HQ slot, per the Daemon codex.

They can, but I believe you can only exercise that option once per detachment. But, this does let you have your 'normal' 2 HQs to spend on monstrous creatures - the Daemon's Party Piece compared to astartes armies - and still attach heralds to your important troop and cavalry units.


Apologies, missed the rogue psyker.

I suspect the reason they left out Daemons using Malefic Daemonology is that they didn't want Daemons-Summoning-Daemons-Summoning-Daemons. Whilst there are a few daemon incursions of note to justify an army - Calth, Davin and Signus, for example - it's always a mortal agent doing the summoning.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I may be misunderstanding you, but heralds can be taken in groups of 4 per HQ slot, per the Daemon codex.

You can take 4 for 1 HQ slot, but you can only have a maximum of 4 in a detachment.

Herald of Chaos
Each detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos [...list of what counts as heralds...]. This selection uses a single HQ slot [...]

(Used to be Primary Detachment only, but one of GW's FaQ's changed it in 7th. Now the Allied Detachment of the AoD chart can have 4, too.)

Ahhh, I see.

I'm pretty sure that Daemons not being listed was an oversight, as Malefic is Daemon's psychic tree, given that they are under less peril when they use it.