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My friend says because they never updated or invalidated the escilation book that both that version and the version from the newest necron codex are game legal. But here is the thing, i hate that model. I hate it more than any other unit in the game. And since I am not playing eldar with access to d wraithknights, it tends to win every and all games its played against me. I can ask him to not use it in friendly games, but he uses it in tourneys. So is it legal or not?

Most, if not all tournaments I've been to you must play with the most up to date rules of any model. Based on this the old C'tan is no longer valid but some may disagree. Depends on the tournament I suppose. I wouldn't play that model in basement games unless I wanted to suck the fun out of my gaming experience.

GW leaves what rules are legal for a game up to the players and have only on a few occasions stated when new rules invalidate old rules. As for a tournament, the only answer is to ask the tournament organizer. Only they can answer your question as to what's legal for their tournament.

Yeah, it can vary from tournament to tournament, and the MC T C'tan is a letdown due to the variable nature of its Powers, so it isn't surprising he would use it if he could get away with it.

It could be argued that it cannot be used in the Decurion, though, and only available to those detachments with a LoW Slot or Unbound, as the Decurion is referencing the Datasheets associated with that book.

Dakka has no insight into what individual tournaments will declare legal.

I'm pretty sure the BRB acknowledges that different versions of the same unit can exist in different publications (I imagine they use daemon princes as an example). I suggest you take a look at the army building section of the BRB to see what it says.

nareik wrote:
I'm pretty sure the BRB acknowledges that different versions of the same unit can exist in different publications (I imagine they use daemon princes as an example). I suggest you take a look at the army building section of the BRB to see what it says.

The BRB references it between factions/codices as its example. Escalation places its datasheets in to the same codex.

BRB wrote:ARMY LIST ENTRIES IN DIFFERENT PUBLICATIONS
There are a few units whose Army List Entries are presented in more than one Games Workshop publication. Daemon Princes, for example, are presented in both Codex: Chaos Daemons and Codex: Chaos Space Marines. In these instances, the unit’s Faction is determined by whichever codex it was chosen from. Be sure to keep track of which is which if you decide to take one from more than one source.

Escalation wrote:LORDS OF WAR IN WARHAMMER 40,000
If you wish, you can take a Lords of War detachment when choosing your force. This is an optional detachment just like Fortifications and Allied detachments, as shown in the Force Organisation Chart opposite. All Lords of War units have a datasheet and each uses up a single Lords of War slot on the Force Organisation chart. The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes.

That is one of the reasons why this is so quirky.

I think it depends on a few things, but if you have to use the most up to date source material, then I would argue that you can probably only use the MC version of the C'tan. ITC definitely only allows the MC version.

There is no rule that says you have to use the most up to date source material.

 Ghaz wrote:
There is no rule that says you have to use the most up to date source material.

I hope you didn't assume my previous statement inferred you had to use the most up to date sources. If not, good

 Ghaz wrote:
There is no rule that says you have to use the most up to date source material.

Good, I am going back to the ork 5th ed codex then. And my friend can rejoice he can use his chaos 3.5 dex again.

All tournaments I know of have some sort of a " use the newest version " rule.
It depends on how this is worded, in the tournament. There might be some tournaments where you can sneak one in.

Personally I would NEVER allow that monster on the table again. Not even in an appoc game.

 Orock wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
There is no rule that says you have to use the most up to date source material.

Good, I am going back to the ork 5th ed codex then. And my friend can rejoice he can use his chaos 3.5 dex again.

As long as you both agree (and the tournament organizer in the case of a tournament) then that's perfectly fine. GW isn't going to send you a Cease and Desist order and have you burn your old books.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Escalation_EN.pdf

There is an errata talking about page 34 stating:

"The datasheets presented in this book describe units with the Lords of War Battlefield Role. These can be included in your army as described in Chooseing an Army section of warhammer: 40,000 the rules....."

I see this as proof enough that you can still use the old T C'tan but that still varies from game to game and tourny to tourny.

That FAQ is Pre 7th necrons

Oldmike wrote:
That FAQ is Pre 7th necrons

which doesn't matter currently because it is still the 7th edition faq/update for escalation book.

But it has not been updated in well over a year and in that time new unit rules have come out

Oldmike wrote:
But it has not been updated in well over a year and in that time new unit rules have come out

Right. So given that it wasn't updated when new rules came out, it must still be valid... Otherwise it would have been updated to tell you to use the newer rules, or just removed entirely as all the old books just spontaneously combusted.


Ultimately, any book is as valid for use as you and your opponent (or the TO, where that's relevant) choose to make it.

There is no hard and fast rules-based answer here.

 insaniak wrote:

Oldmike wrote:
But it has not been updated in well over a year and in that time new unit rules have come out

Right. So given that it wasn't updated when new rules came out, it must still be valid... Otherwise it would have been updated to tell you to use the newer rules, or just removed entirely as all the old books just spontaneously combusted.


Ultimately, any book is as valid for use as you and your opponent (or the TO, where that's relevant) choose to make it.

There is no hard and fast rules-based answer here.

LOL GW good at FAQs.....ROFLM that's why they just had a 2000 reply post asking for questions for new FAQs

I don't recall saying that they were good at FAQs.


The fact that the FAQs haven't been updated simply because GW haven't bothered doesn't change the fact that they haven't been updated.

TL/DR:

Talk to your opponent to figure out what is legal and follow Wheaton's Law. In a standard game, I play my C'Tan Shard as an elite/MC. In Apoc games, I play him as the LoW Escalation rules.