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Ok so once again I have an upcoming event and am trying to work out my final list. Points are tight in the incurion so here is what I am pretty sure I wanna run. Any good?

Missions are (primaries anyway), 6 objectives, table quarters, KP in that order.


Warpflame Host

Hotz, lvl1, conjuration loci, 1 greater (grimoire), 100
4X Exalted Flamer 200
5X Horrors, 1 Iridescent Horror (11) 500

Kairos 300
LoC, lvl3, impossible robes, 1 lesser reward (staff) 290

Forgehost

Grinder, Tzeentch 140
Grinder, Tzeentch, torrent 160
Grinder, Tzeentch, torrent 160

18 WC. 1850 on the dot.

Looks solid. I'm running something almost identical this weekend.

Warpflame Host
Herald, lvl2, conjuration 95
4X Exalted Flamer 200
5X Horrors (11) 495

Daemon Lords
Kairos 300
LoC, lvl3, impossible robes, 1 lesser reward (staff) 320

Forgehost
Grinder, Tzeentch, torrent 160
Grinder, Tzeentch phloem 165
Grinder, Tzeentch 135


Differences
I perfer Tzeentch on the grinders for purposes of the warp storm, and because with cursed earth they can get extremely durable. Normally I am keeping them close to my herald for purposes of counter-attack. If they get cursed earth up, and I grimoire one -- then it's got a 2++ rerollable.

I also think the torrent is an easier way to score a kill than the battle cannon blast. One bad scatter and the battle cannon is missing. The torrent is pretty easy to nail down.

This gave me a few more points to up the psyker level of the herald to 2, which increases the chance of getting cursed earth or sacrifice -- the money powers for him. It also lets the list start with one more WC. If I had more horrors, I would also add a portalglyph here to spawn more warp dice.

I really like the idea of the grimoire on the LoC. It's easy to stick on fatey, making him very hard to kill, and can be used on other targets, like a soul grinder. Again -- this gets a lot better with tzeentch!

Are you going to give the LoC the Tzeentch powers? That gives a lot of 'nuking punch' if you can. I've actually been summoning a lot of burning chariots, as I find they are great summoned units, as it lets them move and shoot some serious punching weapons. The entire change discipline is a madhouse of damage.

Have you bothered rolling for something other than change for your horrors? I've thought of going daemonology with them, but then they lose that nice STR 7 flickering fire.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Looks solid. I'm running something almost identical this weekend.

Warpflame Host
Herald, lvl2, conjuration 95
4X Exalted Flamer 200
5X Horrors (11) 495

Daemon Lords
Kairos 300
LoC, lvl3, impossible robes, 1 greater (grimoire), 1 lesser reward (staff) 320

Forgehost
Grinder, Tzeentch, torrent 160
Grinder, Tzeentch 135
Grinder, Tzeentch 135


Differences
I perfer Tzeentch on the grinders for purposes of the warp storm, and because with cursed earth they can get extremely durable. Normally I am keeping them close to my herald for purposes of counter-attack. If they get cursed earth up, and I grimoire one -- then it's got a 2++ rerollable.

I also think the torrent is an easier way to score a kill than the battle cannon blast. One bad scatter and the battle cannon is missing. The torrent is pretty easy to nail down.

This gave me a few more points to up the psyker level of the herald to 2, which increases the chance of getting cursed earth or sacrifice -- the money powers for him. It also lets the list start with one more WC. If I had more horrors, I would also add a portalglyph here to spawn more warp dice.

I really like the idea of the grimoire on the LoC. It's easy to stick on fatey, making him very hard to kill, and can be used on other targets, like a soul grinder. Again -- this gets a lot better with tzeentch!

Are you going to give the LoC the Tzeentch powers? That gives a lot of 'nuking punch' if you can. I've actually been summoning a lot of burning chariots, as I find they are great summoned units, as it lets them move and shoot some serious punching weapons. The entire change discipline is a madhouse of damage.

Have you bothered rolling for something other than change for your horrors? I've thought of going daemonology with them, but then they lose that nice STR 7 flickering fire.

Well I certainly like your use of tzeentch on the princes but I will play devils advocate and defend a few choices. Before I do though I have a question.

Since the horrors have chaos focus, they get the flickering fire for free and then roll their 1 role on demonology. I am unsure as to why you think you would lose that? Remember (in itc at least) you can only cast a number of powers equal to your level.

I like the grim on the tzeentch but I think slaneesh is one of the best on grinders. You move 6, run (with rerolls from fleet, and also reroll charges!) and add 3 to it. You average 13 inches move in the first turn and should charge turn 2 often.

I agree the battle cannon can scatter but I like the fact that it gives me some more anti hoard other than simply flickering fire over and over. I am on the fence with it.

You can also kill a guy with a slaneesh harvester cannon and then the battle cannon can reroll the scatter. It says failed to hit actually. Maybe that doesn't work. Hmmm.

 Icelord wrote:
Since the horrors have chaos focus, they get the flickering fire for free and then roll their 1 role on demonology. I am unsure as to why you think you would lose that? Remember (in itc at least) you can only cast a number of powers equal to your level.

Simple! Because I can't seem to read the book!
That makes me wonder if I should not roll the change table on them just to see what else they could get. A few extra D shots coming from horrors would be highly unexpected.
It also means the herald is free'ed up a bit to take divination -- and prescience has a nice effect when combined with that STR 7 flickering fire.

 Icelord wrote:
I like the grim on the tzeentch but I think slaneesh is one of the best on grinders. You move 6, run (with rerolls from fleet, and also reroll charges!) and add 3 to it. You average 13 inches move in the first turn and should charge turn 2 often.

There is a lot to be said with that, is that worth 30 points? I'm not sure. I could drop the torrent and get that same thing on grinders, keeping the tzeentch one to get the 2++ when needed and the others to shove in the opponents face.

 Icelord wrote:
I agree the battle cannon can scatter but I like the fact that it gives me some more anti hoard other than simply flickering fire over and over. I am on the fence with it.

Since the grinders are BS3, the chances of just scoring a hit with a harvester cannon are annoyingly low. This is what they will do to a eldar jetbike
(1/2 to hit) * (5/6 to wound) * (1/3 failed save) * 3 shots = 15/36 or ~41% of scoring that kill.
The torrent has a much greater chance of having an effect since it will auto-hit ~5 models. It also acts as great anti-horde.

Haha I like your response to the flick haha.

I always roll the pinks on demonology hoping for cursed earth and summoning powers. Its amazing when they kill like 10 horrors in a unit and that last 1 turns himself into a bloodthirster haha

I am going to mess with the points on the grinders.

 Icelord wrote:
Haha I like your response to the flick haha.

I always roll the pinks on demonology hoping for cursed earth and summoning powers. Its amazing when they kill like 10 horrors in a unit and that last 1 turns himself into a bloodthirster haha

I am going to mess with the points on the grinders.

When you create a bloodthirster, do you have to use the base one, or can you take one of the new D thirsters?

In the curse supplement it says you replace the thirster entry with the new ones. You can pick the d if you want. (And you do!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I updated the original list

You can only have one hellforged artifact per character, so the LoC can't take both the gromiore and the impossible robe.

Great point! I will have to move it to the herald :-(

How did your games go? I played it three times over the weekend.

Game One
My opponent played a necron list with three Sentry Pylon's equipped with Focused Death Ray's. He gave the unit relentless, so they were able to exibit a huge zone of control dropping 6 STR 10 AP2 ignore cover hits on any model the beam touched. This means in one round he was able to drop 24 hits on one horror unit. With his 2++ models in front of the unit, it was effectively invulnerable to shooting.

He was able to quickly wipe out the 3 soul grinders. I was able to cursed earth and a 10 on the warp storm table to keep a 3+ up on my horrors for a long time. Rerolling 1's means that after that unit was hit 24 times with STR 10 weapons with preferred enemy, he still only killed 3 horrors.

He was able to do enough damage with those 3 pylons to where I could not do enough damage with him using fateweaver and the LoC blasting with all their spells. By the end of the game he killed 2 squads of horrors, the grinders and the herald. I destroyed most of his other units but he was able to win using NOVA win/loss rules.

Game Two
My opponent was a tau player with the usual lineup. Ghostkeel, stormsurge, deep striking melta suits, marker light drones, some fire warriors. He went first and killed 2 exalted flamers and some horrors. In all fairness those were his best targets, as the exalted flamers were very dangerous to his army.

The other 2 exalted flamers then opened fire and toasted his units of stealth suit, and did a wound to ghostkeel -- who then failed his morale test and ran away for 2 turns straight (and was then shrieked by fateweaver right after he recovered). I also threw a few wounds on his stormsurge who got to close.

My soul grinders took some fire, but did a lot of work on his broadsides, piranhas and drones. While he managed to kill all 3 by the end of the game, it was not an easy feat and took a lot of his shooting. In this game I switched them to tzeentch, which gave a remarkable improvement - especially with the cursed earth and warp storm bonus's that were up.

Fateweaver and the LoC flew around and caused havoc, with fateweaver doing the majority of damage, as usual. Fatey is a one stop wrecking machine when hes sitting on 15+ power dice. With the new tzeentch power set he had a wealth of damage options open to him.

On turn 4, I used 'possession' on a unit of horrors to pop out a new Dthirster who ate the stormsurge for lunch on turn 5. That's a really solid tactic, and it's not a problem is you perils, as the unit is gone anyway so I threw 8 dice at it.

Game Three
I played against a slaanesh daemonic incursion, and the warp storm table was crazy. Sadly, most of his army was unable to hurt the soul grinders, as damonettes can't do much to AV13. My grinders were able to .. well ... grind through his entire force of infantry and cavalry.

I did learn a few tricks in this game. He outflanked 10 seekers + a herald next to my squad of horrors. I knew that the horrors were going to be dead, as flicking fire could not do enough damage. I had my herald use prescience on the horrors with 4 warp dice, and then I threw 7 warp dice at the horrors to get a level 3 flickering fire off on the seekers. I rolled a 5,5,6,1 for the number of shots, which I used fateweaver to reroll that 1 to a 4. I was then able to throw 20 STR 7 shots with a 75% hit rate into the seekers.
Flickering fire is normally not that impressive, but being able to reroll changed things dramatically.

I used snap shooting at his daemon prince with an exalted flamer and doubled him out for an ID. That was rather entertaining.

I tabled him on the end of turn 6, and he managed to kill 3 squads of heralds and 3 exalted flamers.

Overall Thoughts
The exalted flamers were money in every game. STR 6, AP3 torrent is nasty. STR 10, D3 shots is scary. They were a very well spent 200 points given the amount of board control they provided and amount of fire they drew.

The soulgrinders were very matchup dependent. Against the slaanesh incursion they were unkillable murder machines. Against the necron they died quickly and painfully. Given how many times I was able to get their invuln to a 3++, going Tzeentch on them is the best solution IMHO. Fatey + incursion gives you an insanely good chance to get a 10. Lets say you roll a 3 and 5, you reroll the 3, and on a 4, 5, or 6 you get +1 invuln. If you rolled a 3 and 2, you use fatey's warlord ability to pick up both dice and reroll them. In nearly half of the warp storm results I was shooting for, I was able to get +1 invlun.

The LoC was a bit lackluster. He did his best work when he was not swooping but just smashing face with his boomstick. If anything in the list is expendable, it's him. I can find another 3 psychic levels elsewhere.

STR 7 flickering fire, while sounding great on paper is lackluster in use unless you boost it with prescience. At that point your investing so many dice into it, you need to ask -- is this worth it? I'm sure flickering fire is great against light armor spam, and I used it to good effect against enemy flyers.

Fatey, as always is a boss. With a warpflame backing him, he can dish out tremendous amounts of damage.

I also got a lot of use out of corruption. The necron's objective secured was a bit of a PITA, since he was able to take objectives from me, but in most cases I was albe to just keep on rolling with objective corrupting.

Hey sorry I didn’t get to respond yesterday. Ok. So at our store we have our own scoring method which consists of a possible 30 points max in each round. That’s primary, secondary, tertiary, line breaker, slay the warlord. I ended up with a 90! Oddly enough this is the first event we have ever had at our store where 2 people both had max points. There were 22 players and after round 1 6 players had 30. Then after round 2 3 players had 60. We rolled off and I got paired vs the other 60 and 1 guy got paired vs a 58. Both he and I got another 30 so there were 2 90s! We combined the credit from 1st and 2nd place and split it. I think I should have won via strength of schedule but we never had to use a tie breaker before so we went with a split. Here is a summary of my games.

Game 1. The first match was vs another daemon player. He was playing a cad. It was similar to mine but mixed gods. He had a LOC and a DP of Tz. 3 horror units, seekers with a herald, khorne hounds and 2 Hotz. It was long ways deployment (hammer and anvil?) He won the role to go first but I seized. It was 6 objectives. I moved forward to push the middle (we both basically started with 3 objectives) and I summoned some units to leave on the back objectives. He basically could never reach them at this point. I moved up, could barely shoot my horrors cause he was able to cancel charges on 4+ and 5+ with khorne ane psychers. His first turn he does 2 wounds to the LOC. I roll a 1 and a 2. I rerolled the 1, still failed. Then rerolled the 2 with Kairos. Failed again. Took 2 LD tests and died instantly on a 10… Not a good start. I ended winning via attrition and that he couldn’t clear my objectives as the incursion was tough. The real star of the game was the soul grinders. He literally had almost nothing that could event touch them. I charged his LOC with 2 and just beat on him. The other charged his DP. He tried to grimoire it and failed so a 6+ inv and rolled a 4 on the chart so he had no inv. I instant deathed him instantly.

Game 2. The second match was vs another 30. It was war convocation. It was corner to corner deployment and the mission was table quarters primary. He went first. Dropped in with plasma rad van guard and shot Kairos. Did 17 wounds! I rolled miracle saves, and rerolling 1’s he only took 3! His knight moved up and I beat the crap out of it with the exalted flamers. The poor grinders got immobiled from grav but kept killing units with their torrents which were amazing! I pretty much just beat on him and adventuelly controlled all the quarters. 30 points. Once again. The grinders were really good here. 1 charged and killed all the vanguard that DS in.

Game 3. The last game was vs the other 60. It was orks (I know…) with 3 units of mega nobz in trucks. 2 units of slugga boyz in trucks. Buzzgrob and his stompa. Biker boss with a unit of deffkoptas and a pain boy. He went first (are you seeing a trend here?) and moves everything straight at me and turbo boosts/flat outs. I was worried haha. Btw for the shield generator on the stompa he rolled a 6 so it had 6 vsg points and 12 HP! It was a kill points game! I fired all the exalted into trucks and disabled some. 1 grinder charged a unit of mega nobz. I had him grimoire and cursed earth. 2+ in… I murdered them hard. The second grinder charged the biker boss and retinue. Killed a few and the boss wiffed. Won that next turn with grim and other bonuses. I had a 2++ grinder vs the stompa at 1 point and got hit by the dreaded 6 stomp… The LOC actually killed the stomp in CC after the stompa wiffed and rolled poorly on stomps. I wony KP 17-5… Brutal. The stompa (in our format) was worth 4 and the 2 units inside also. It was worth 6. Ouch.

A few things I learned.

The grinders were AMAZING for me. Brutal. They pretty much survived and were hard to deal with. Although I didn’t fight any melta really so its hard to say.
The flame host was great. So much dice and so much damage.
The LOC is a boss. The robes killed me 1 game turn 1 which sucked but was unkillable in the other 2 games. I literally survived the D in CC because of it (an no 6 being rolled!)

Those sentry pylons with focused death rays do not ignore cover, unless he has some super sneaky way of getting prescience buff on them.

I used to have 6 of these models because their weapons were so strong, however with rulings at local tournaments they didn't pull their weight due to not being allowed to hit units out of line of sight, snap shooting and cover saves. I ended up selling them in frustration and in favor of more conventional/less controversial lists.

Anyway glad you seem to have good luck with your list against a variety of competant opponents.

@labmouse, where did you kept exalted, all 5 togheter in single unit, or spread into horrors units? i guess the first is better option.

I had 5 horror units. I put the herald in 1 and 1 exalted in each other.

 Icelord wrote:
I had 5 horror units. I put the herald in 1 and 1 exalted in each other.

Same here

I'm a little confused, what is the benefit of having the exalted in with the horrors other than a meat shield?

Also, what do you think about adding Belakor if the points were available? I see extra warp dice and a whole host of powers if you needed it.

 Alpha wrote:
I'm a little confused, what is the benefit of having the exalted in with the horrors other than a meat shield?.

Area of control
Each exalted flamer has a solid area of control bubble around them of 18" Spreading them around your army extends the area of control they exhibit. They do so much damage, that in most cases you don't need to have four hitting a unit. One or two should do the job. Spreading them out increases their ability to influence other units.

Protection
Yes, I use them to soak 1-2 wound each, then I LOS the other wounds back onto the horrors. I also tend to use the horrors to act as meat shields for the anchored exalted flamers. By sticking the exalted flamer at the front of my army, they can maximize their threat bubble and my horrors can move around them as needed.

 Alpha wrote:
Also, what do you think about adding Belakor if the points were available? I see extra warp dice and a whole host of powers if you needed it.

As in dropping the soul grinders, or increasing the points value?

 Alpha wrote:
Also, what do you think about adding Belakor if the points were available? I see extra warp dice and a whole host of powers if you needed it.

As in dropping the soul grinders, or increasing the points value?

ptapanin wrote:
You can only have one hellforged artifact per character, so the LoC can't take both the gromiore and the impossible robe.

Is this true? Cause an exalted reward isn't a hell forged relic.


Also why exalted Flamers? They are awful.
I'd grab a couple squads of screamers for some mobility.

I don't like the idea of relying on your one other psyker rolling for earth and then holding him back to give it to the grinders.


I'd take a paradox somewhere in this list.

The grimoire is a hel forge artifact. You roll the reward then trade it in for it.

You can't take screamers in a warp flame host.

The exalted are amazing. D3 s10 shots is brutal for units who wanna engage the horrors. They also create a no go zone of ap 3 torrent flamers.

Paradox is really good but I personally didn't feel I needed it in a list with 22 charges.

 Aijec wrote:
Also why exalted Flamers? They are awful.

They are actually really good, just very specific. 50 points for a model that provides really strong board control. Sure it can't move, but it's only 50 points. Since it's in a horror squad, you don't have to worry about it getting picked off easily.

Icelord and I are not just saying they are good because of what they look like on paper. We have both played them in quite a few games -- and he placed best general in a RTT last week with them.

 Aijec wrote:
I don't like the idea of relying on your one other psyker rolling for earth and then holding him back to give it to the grinders.

With 5 horror squads, there is a good chance one of them will pick up cursed earth. You don't need to hold back a FMC.

Even if your FMC is casting it, a 12" bubble in the middle of the board is pretty big, and the footprint of the grinder is also pretty big. It's pretty easy to take one or two.

 Aijec wrote:
I'd take a paradox somewhere in this list.

Where can it go?