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Here is my review Codex Orks and some suggestions to adjust the unit. In most of these the same core issue of durability and morale will crop up. These suggestions are designed to minimalistic as to stick to the current meat of the codex but with it being functional. Avoiding formation suggestions for the most part as it just gets silly (I posted a klan based Orkurion before). Let me know what you think about these and if anything stands out as being problematic or if I overlooked something.

Core Army Rules Changes
Mob Rule: This is punishing and while it keeps the Orks in the fight it feels like the massive amounts of leadership 7 in the Ork army means this ends up punishing the Orks a lot. (Suggestion) Make it so the 1-3 results deal D6 hits at S4 AP- to non characters, 4-5 is an automatic pass, and 6 gives fearless until the Ork player's next turn.

Units:
HQs
Warboss: Great unit but lacks good Feel No Pain and/or Invulnerable saves. There is little reason to take a Warboss without mega armor or a bike. (Suggestion) An upgrade for T6 for non bike Warbosses would be amazing call it "Meaner and Greener"
Weirdboy: Lots of fun but hard to fit into an army list due to the general lack of HQ slots. Low leadership, armor save, and no other defense isn’t great. Powers are great except eadbanger is absolutely terrible and probably the worst power in the entirety of 40k’s psychic powers. (Suggestion) Need a Weirdboy formation, a 5+ invulnerable save would be great for a bit of defense.
Mek: Cheap and good for taking challenges to keep a Nob or Warboss safe.
Big Mek: Good all around but Shock Attack Guns are hard to fit into an army as they tend to act more like artillery than an HQ that marches around with the boyz. (Suggestion) Formations are a good way to fit more of them into an army or allowing you to take 1 per Mek Gun unit without taking up an HQ slot.
Painboy: Best HQ in the Ork codex besides a Warboss. Wish it was possible to fit more of them into the Ork army. Really needs 4+ armor and higher leadership as all Nob sized models need. (Suggestion) Make them just a character, 4+ armor, can take one per unit of Nobz or Flash Gitz without using an HQ slot. Any Painboyz that are taken this way (slotless) must join a unit of Nobz or Flash Gitz.
Grotsnik: Points cost is too high. (Suggestion) 125 is a good place for him.
Kaptin Badrukk: Points cost is too high, should give a benefit of some sort to a unit of Flash Gitz when joined with them. (Suggestion) Doesn't take up an HQ slot when taken with Flash Gitz, allows the unit of Gitz to reroll their AP roll. 100 points.
Zagstruk: Not bad but HQ slots are a premium in the Ork army. Stomboyz are lacking in general. (Suggestion) 90 points. Has Move Through Cover, Da Vulcha's Klaws count as a PK for close combat in addition to his improved HoW. Leadership 9. (I removed the not taking up a slot if stormboyz are taken because I'm seeing Zagstruk as more of a boss HQ instead of just an elite character like Snikrot or Badrukk.

Troops
Boyz: Too weak and die too easily. S3 makes it hard to do much, they die by the bucket load to any decent shooting and 4+ armor upgrade is too expensive. Footslogging is too slow and exposed to shooting, trukks are too fragile which kills half the squad when it inevitably explodes, and battlewagons are hard to field and take up a lot of points. Morale is a huge issue for boyz. The Power Klaw Nob does most of the work but are really bad in challenges as they tend to die before they get to swing.(Suggestion) Burnas would be a weapon upgrade for the unit at 10 ppm. The Nob in the unit should be leadership 8 and 4+ armor. Eavy armor should be 3ppm. Shootas go back to free swap with slugga.
Gretchin: They do their job well as cheap objective campers and road bumps for the enemy. (Suggestion) Gain the stealth special rule.

Elites
Burna Boyz: A bit too much in terms of points, just as vulnerable to shooting and morale issues as all other Orks. (Suggestion) 14ppm
Tankbustas: Best unit in the Ork codex. Still suffer from the general leadership and durability issue for Orks. (Suggestion) Tankhammers are free swaps
Nobz: Meganobz do everything Nobz do but better. Big Choppas aren’t really all that great (lose an attack for more wounding, the AP5 is generally worthless). A Power Klaw on a Nob costs more than a Meganob who has better armor and a PK. Bikes would be good but they cost so many points. Lack of good armor, invulnerable saves, and lack of Feel No Pain hurts them. Leadership is still an issue. Wulfen make Nobz look like a giant joke by comparison. (Suggestion) Give them Gretchen that can be used to look out sir wounds (the Nob grabs a grot to take the hit for him). Nobz not on bikes can take the "Meaner and Greener" upgrade for +1 T at 10ppm. 4+ armor is stock, leadership 8. Big Choppas have rending. 16ppm base. Warbike upgrade is 17ppm. Each Nob can choose to take one shield grot for 3ppm. The Nob can attempt use the shield grot to absorb a wound before saves are made. On a 4+ the shield grot absorbs the wound, on a 1-3 the shield grot fails. The shield grot is removed when used regardless if it absorbed a wound or not. Shield grots are represented by a token but are not models for gameplay purpose (same as grot oilers and ammo runts).
Meganobz: The better Nob. Leadership is an issue as well as lack of toughness, invulnerable saves, and Feel No Pain but the 2+ armor and multiple wounds is quite good for the points cost. Bully Boyz formation makes Meganobz great. (Suggestion) leadership 8, Meaner and Greener upgrade for 15ppm
Kommandos: Too expensive in points and don’t do enough. Not being able to assault from outflank for a unit that is basically slugga boyz with camo cloaks makes them have to sit through some shooting before they can do anything. The burna upgrade for them is WAY too expensive. Flamers for space marines is 5 points, kommandos upgrade to having a burna for 15. (Suggestion) Assault from outflanking would really fit Kommandos, Burnas down to 10ppm.
Snikrot: He is ok but Kommandos aren’t very good in general. (Suggestion) Exchange shred for rending.

Fast Attack
Trukk: Fast and Open Topped are great but it almost always explodes which murders the models inside with +6 armor and terrible leadership. (Suggestion) Penetrating hits become glances on a 4+
Stomboyz: Most Jump Pack infantry suffer from the same problems but stormboyz have it worse with only 6+ armor saves. They suffer from dying like boyz but at a higher points cost. The morale and durability issues apply here again. Their 2D6 run is great but again 6+ armor and mob rule means they can lose a lot of models trying to go fast. (Suggestion) Give them the old exhaust cloud rule for a permanent 5+ cover save.
Deffkoptas: Great as individual units. The same morale issues make them not so great in squads. (Suggestion) New kit, one can be upgraded to a Nob.
Dakkajet: Was great in the old codex but the 7th edition one made them weaker. (Suggestion) Supa Shoota has shred and pinning.
Burna-Bommer: Not that good honestly. Just lacks firepower and basically does what dakkajets do (kill infantry) but the dakkajet is more reliable. (Suggestion) Skorcha missiles are 5 points. Burna Bomb creates a large blast size fire storm that uses the vortex rules except it only deals S4 AP5 hits ignoring cover and isn't impassible terrain.
Blitza-Bommer: Decently good. (Suggestion) 120 points.
Warbikers: Great units, leadership is a problem, bikers as troops would make them fantastic. (Suggestion) Warboss on bike makes them Troops.
Warbuggies: Never seen one in a game or in a store but they seem decent. (Suggestion) New plastic Kit. (people with experience using Warbuggies/Wartraks please give feedback on them. Not sure how they do).

Heavy Support
Mek Gunz: Some are great, some are bad, kit is way too expensive in money. (Suggestion) Can take a Mek for 15 points.
Kannon: Quite good. Cheap and does the job
Lobba: Same
Zzap Gun: Its mainly an anti vehicle weapon but the random Strength roll after you pick a target means it could potentially be unable to glance the enemy vehicle if it gets a low roll. It adds another layer or point of failure to its operation. (Suggestion) Roll for Strength then pick a target.
Bubblechukka: This thing is terrible. Better AP with worse strength means you can barely wound things with good armor while the high strength stuff is only good against hordes of infantry. Not a fun form of random rolls. (Suggestion) D6 strength, ignores armor.
Kustom mega-kannon: Basically a Str 8 plasma cannon. It’s fine as it is
Smasha Gun: Another random gun for trying to take out vehicles. Random strength rolls are bad when you are trying to punch holes in vehicles as it can roll low and all shots are worthless. Again it is random for the sake of random but not much upside but plenty of downside. Compare to a lascannon and there is little benefit to the random roll. (Suggestion) Roll for Strength then pick the target.
Traktor Kannon: Really good against flyers but there aren’t as many flyers in use these days.
Battlewagon: Blitz Brigade is great, the deff rolla is absolutely terrible as it only works on Death or Glory which auto kills the enemy when they fail it while the rolla does nothing when they don’t do a D or G. The killkannon is fairly decent but lacks a bit of strength and range. (Suggestion) 100 points. Deffrolla does D3 Str 9 AP2 hits when ramming. Killkannon goes to Strength 8
Deff Dread: Suffers from the walker rules being terrible (walkers move like infantry, lack any armor saves, the vehicle damage table makes them ineffective, explosion result instantly destroys them, grav weapons turn them into lawn ornaments). Being heavy support and only 1 per slot makes it hard to field a lot of them for a walker army. (Suggestion) Give Deff Dreads Ere We Go! Fix the walker rules in the BRB. Until the walker rules get fixed let the Deff Dread use a turbo charged run that is 6+D6 movement. Immobilized results become stunned. Squadron of 3. 5++ invuln
Killa Kans: Walker rules are bad, AV11 with no saves is fragile, cowardly grot is a terrible rule added for no reason, their melee weapon was weakened, and the only really worth while weapon is the Grotzooka. Everything else is better taken on things like buggies, deffkoptas, trukks, battlewagons, etc.(Suggestion) 40ppm, 5+ invulnerable save, remove cowardly grot rule. make the Killa Klaw Str 8. Grotzooka goes up to 24" and cost 10 points to take instead of its stock big shoota. All other weapons are free swaps.
Gorkanaut: Way too expensive for something that will die to a single melta gun or immobilized by a grav gun. Walker rules continue to be bad, its shooting is poor due to BS2. Its melee good but it will never get into close combat against anything that can kill vehicles at range. (Suggestion) Make it a super heavy walker but without Stomp. 5++ invuln
Morkanaut: Same as Gorkanaut but worse at shooting and melee for the ability to have a Kustom Force Field (not worth it). (Suggestion) SHW without stomp. 5++ invuln. Morkanaut KFF is 12" range.
Lootas: Good all around but same morale and durability issues. (Suggestion) Would see more use as Elites instead of Heavy Support.
Flash Gitz: Huge improvement over the old version. Would be great but 6+ armor and morale issues hold them back. They can’t upgrade one model to a painboy anymore which isn’t ideal. (Suggestion) Would be nice if the Gitfinda worked if relentless so they can fire at BS3 from inside a transport. Move to the Elite slot would help as they are basically Nobz with fancy guns. 4+ armor stock, leadership 8.
Looted Wagon: Put it in the Ork codex.

LoW
Ghazghkull: Way too expensive for what he does, he is great when he can WAAAGH every turn to always have his 2++ save. (Suggestion) 4++ save, Orks within 12" get +1 to the mob rule table.
Stompa: It is too expensive when compared to things like an Imperial Knight and Wraithknight. Fine otherwise as its Super Heavy rules lets all its random assortment of guns shoot at different targets. (Suggestion) 600 points. 5++ invuln save.

Wargear Changes
Big Choppas: Just too weak and don’t pack enough killing potential. (Suggestion) Rending
Stikk Bomb Chukkas: These things are completely useless as all Orks have Stikk Bombs. (Suggestion) A weapon that launches D3 stikk bombs up to 12". It can be fired at a separate target from the rest of the vehicle shooting and does not count against your number of weapons fired (basically power of the machine spirit).
Big Shoota: Really underwhelming all things considered. (Suggestion) Pinning.
Kustom Mega-Weapons: With BS2 and only 1 shot its unlikely they will do anything and for every 2 hits statistically you will gets hot once which is almost always going to kill the Ork with his 6+ armor save. Overpriced by a lot and lack enough dakka. (Suggestion) Blast: Assault 2, Gets Hot. 10ppm. Pistol is 5ppm.
Cybork: 6+ Feel No Pain that doesn’t even stack with the Painboy benefit is terrible compared to having 5+ invulnerable from before.(Suggestion) +1 to FNP.
Kustom Force Field: Being an invulnerable save is great but being per model instead of unit isn’t. (Suggestion) Invuln save applies to the entire unit.
Red Paint Job: Too limited in its use for the price. (Suggestion) The old version of adding 1” to movement with no penalty was a lot better and very useful.
Da Lucky Stikk: Too OP (Suggestion) May make 3 rerolls in total per turn for any of the following: To hit, to Wound, and Saving Throws. Gives a 4+ invulnerable save.

New Entries
Meaner and Greener: Warboss, Nobz, and Meganobz can take this. +1 toughness, cannot be taken with a bike. 10ppm for Nobz, 15 for Meganobz, 20 for Warboss.
Lucky Gubbin: 5+ invulnerable save. becomes a 4+ invulnerable save while in range of a Kustom Force Shield. Availiable to Warboss, Big Mek, Nobz, Flash Gitz.

Edit: Added the Orkcurion Concept. This is what I think would make for a very strong but hopefully fair Ork army. Again feedback is greatly appreciated.

------------------------------------Orkcurion-----------------------------------------

-Orkcurion Detachment: (Call if the Ork WAAAGH! Detachment if your a stick in the mud who doesn't like silly names ).
Requires
1-2 Command
1-3 Core
1-9 Auxiliary

Command Benefits
"Getting Stuck In": All charges during a WAAAGH! including when charging multiple units gain the benefit from Furious Charge and any Extra Attacks that would be gained if only charging one unit.
"Klan Tactics": Pick one of the following
Goffs - Rage and Crusader. Warlord gains Hatred
Evil Suns - Can turbo boost/flat out and then make a shooting attack as snap shots. Passangers inside a transport that has gone flat out can still make snap shots. Warlord gains Fleet and Move Through Cover.
Bad Moons - Any unit may choose to gain +1 BS when firing assault weapons during the shooting phase. Units that do so cannot charge that turn. The Warlord's Weapons are Master Crafted
Deathskulls - 6+ invulnerable save and reroll 1s for invulnerable saves. Warlord gains Preferred Enemy
Snakebites - +1 to FNP saves. Does not stack with Cybork. Warlord gains It Will Not Die.
Blood Axes - Outflank. Warlord may roll for an additional command, tactical, or strategic trait.

Command

Core

Auxiliary

A lot of good ideas, but points cost wise your making things way to expensive. I would never pay 20ppm for 1+ Toughness for meganobz. that makes them 60ppm without a single Invulnerable save. Compare that to any like unit (IE Terminators/Wraithguard) and you having the worst unit possible. T5 won't protect them against AP2 weapons which will still kill them, though it won't double them out anymore.

SemperMortis wrote:
A lot of good ideas, but points cost wise your making things way to expensive. I would never pay 20ppm for 1+ Toughness for meganobz. that makes them 60ppm without a single Invulnerable save. Compare that to any like unit (IE Terminators/Wraithguard) and you having the worst unit possible. T5 won't protect them against AP2 weapons which will still kill them, though it won't double them out anymore.

Its quite possible that 20ppm is too high for MANz (15ppm might be better, hard to say for sure) to get +1 T but the intent is to incentivize the use of Nobz. That said not being doubled out by a melta gun or lascannon is pretty huge as it doubles the durability of the unit against those weapons. Other than that what else is way to expensive? I think everything else got cheaper or stayed the same except for the Grotzooka which got buffed and the kan itself was made cheaper.

I really like all of the fixes you've made for the army, they're flavourful and give us a fighting chance without propelling us to cheddar town on par with Eldar. Great work!

The only changes I think needed to be added is Zagstruk becoming Ld9 again with the Violent Temper rule (pretty much auto-pass morale check by executing an Ork, commissar style). Alongside your change of not taking a slot of Stormboyz are taken, the Vulcha Klaws counted as a pair of power klaws that give Zagstruk D3 S8 AP2 hammer of wrath hits. This way he gives more to a stormboy unit, if this is overkill maybe have him confer MTC to any stormboy unit he's attached to? It shows off the veteran status of his personal Vulcha Boyz by them not blowing up when they use their rokkit packs to run.

Other than that, tankbustas IMO should have access to 'eavy armour upgrade for 3 ppm to show how they screw on and wear the tank debris of confirmed destroyed vehicle kills. Tankhammas become a free switch since 15 points for an unwieldy AP3 power fist is meh, I'd argue to make not unwieldy to make it a decent alternative than going with the tankbusta bombs.

I think another way of potentially making Meks/Big Meks more synergistic with other units rather than just repairing is allowing units that have them attached to re-roll (once per turn) the strength values for weapons like Mek Guns or the amount of shots for Lootas. Not sure if this should also apply for the random AP roll of Snazzguns since your version of Badrukk already does this. It also gives more incentive to actually include meks in units like Lootas.

Well for starters, you have the flyers costing roughly the same as they do now. I don't take them now because they are utter trash, so why would I spend points on them after you give them a minor (and i do mean minor) buff?

As far as the +1Toughness for Meganobz/nobz and Warboss, it should cost 5pts at most, 20 is utterly ridiculous, 15pts is not worth it, 10 pts is (I might take it if I had left overs) and 5pts is where it should be. Meganobz are already over priced terminators without any of hte benefits, so why give them a buff but turn it into a nerf by adding in the cost of more then another meganob just to make the 3 you take slightly more durable.

I think you should operate on the 20% rule for orks. IE almost every unit is at least 20% over priced. Walkers are the exception to this rule, as they currently sit they are about 40-50% over priced. if Kanz were 25pts they would be fielded regularly, still not OP gak but good enough, doubling the grotzookas cost just because you increased the range slightly isn't worth it.

Stormboyz need a lot more love then a simple 5+ cover save, especially in the current meta of every army having ignores cover. (Except orks)

Burna Boyz, wow they suck, even with the buff (Point reduction) they are still unusable, i think 10 or 12pts a model is better, especially when you factor in them having to take an open topped vehicle to be worth anything (IE Battlewagon) also I would love for some kind of way to upgrade them to Skorcha Boyz.

Basically every vehicle you went over still sucks, they just suck a bit less with your buffs.

Battlewagonz need a complete points over haul, the Kill Kannon is 30pts and is less effective in every way compared to a Mek Gun with a KMK, which only costs 30pts

The biggest vehicle problem is the Walkers, Killa Kanz I went over, Deff Dredz need a points reduction and you can field them in squadrons of 3, Mork/Gorkanaut, giving them SHW is fine and dandy except that doesnt help them in ANY WAY, all it does it make them less likely to die on turn 1. Both completely lack a purpose in the game. They are to slow (SHW would slightly fix that) they are vulnerable to melta/AP2 and with 5HP they still die rather quickly because the current rules suck for them. On top of all of that, they DONT DAKKA! The Mork at least has a KMK but your paying through the nose for it, it should be a 2 shot KMK at least, and the KMB should be something worth shooting, The Gork should have more shots or increase to BS3 for shooting. Also both should have 2 TL Rokkits not 2 rokkits. Also in the fluff that big stupid eye they have is a weapon of some sort, I would love for that to work. And why the hell do they have a transport capacity of 6? Either make it 10-20, add in Assault or get rid of it. At the moment all it is used for is (on the off chance you actually field one) cramming a burna/loota squad into it that is maxed out with mekz, so you can theoretically get 4 IWND rolls instead of 1.

SemperMortis wrote:
Well for starters, you have the flyers costing roughly the same as they do now. I don't take them now because they are utter trash, so why would I spend points on them after you give them a minor (and i do mean minor) buff?

As far as the +1Toughness for Meganobz/nobz and Warboss, it should cost 5pts at most, 20 is utterly ridiculous, 15pts is not worth it, 10 pts is (I might take it if I had left overs) and 5pts is where it should be. Meganobz are already over priced terminators without any of hte benefits, so why give them a buff but turn it into a nerf by adding in the cost of more then another meganob just to make the 3 you take slightly more durable.

I think you should operate on the 20% rule for orks. IE almost every unit is at least 20% over priced. Walkers are the exception to this rule, as they currently sit they are about 40-50% over priced. if Kanz were 25pts they would be fielded regularly, still not OP gak but good enough, doubling the grotzookas cost just because you increased the range slightly isn't worth it.

Stormboyz need a lot more love then a simple 5+ cover save, especially in the current meta of every army having ignores cover. (Except orks)

Burna Boyz, wow they suck, even with the buff (Point reduction) they are still unusable, i think 10 or 12pts a model is better, especially when you factor in them having to take an open topped vehicle to be worth anything (IE Battlewagon) also I would love for some kind of way to upgrade them to Skorcha Boyz.

Basically every vehicle you went over still sucks, they just suck a bit less with your buffs.

Battlewagonz need a complete points over haul, the Kill Kannon is 30pts and is less effective in every way compared to a Mek Gun with a KMK, which only costs 30pts

The biggest vehicle problem is the Walkers, Killa Kanz I went over, Deff Dredz need a points reduction and you can field them in squadrons of 3, Mork/Gorkanaut, giving them SHW is fine and dandy except that doesnt help them in ANY WAY, all it does it make them less likely to die on turn 1. Both completely lack a purpose in the game. They are to slow (SHW would slightly fix that) they are vulnerable to melta/AP2 and with 5HP they still die rather quickly because the current rules suck for them. On top of all of that, they DONT DAKKA! The Mork at least has a KMK but your paying through the nose for it, it should be a 2 shot KMK at least, and the KMB should be something worth shooting, The Gork should have more shots or increase to BS3 for shooting. Also both should have 2 TL Rokkits not 2 rokkits. Also in the fluff that big stupid eye they have is a weapon of some sort, I would love for that to work. And why the hell do they have a transport capacity of 6? Either make it 10-20, add in Assault or get rid of it. At the moment all it is used for is (on the off chance you actually field one) cramming a burna/loota squad into it that is maxed out with mekz, so you can theoretically get 4 IWND rolls instead of 1.

Big thing to remember is that a lot of the little changes will have a big overall impact when everything is added together. The new Mob Rule is basically a 50% take D6 hits if you have a character, 33% auto pass, 16% fearless. In the Ghazz supplement they are 50% of the time fearless and auto passing all but 16% of the time where they take extra hits. That means any squad with a Nob is basically never running away, never going to be swept, and will fight until the last model unless the Nob dies then 50% of the time they fight to the last. If the bosspole stays the same then its basically 75% of the time your not taking a single wound and auto passing or getting fearless. Nobz also having 4+ armor by default and the ability to take invuln saves and increase their FNP makes them way better in challenges and in general. More likely that PK nob will get to swing his PK and tear into the enemy. All of these changes make things like trukk boyz that much more effective. Cheaper 4+ armor compounds the increase in effectiveness of the unit. Having burnas in boyz units is also big as they get some extra firepower or a power sword in close combat.

5ppm +1 toughness seems fairly crazy for a unit of all 2 wound models with large amounts of high strength attacks. Perhaps the current numbers i suggested are too high compared to just taking a bike but 5ppm is way too low for an upgrade that would basically be an auto take. Again factor in things like 4+ armor stock, 16ppm base, big choppas being rending, mob rule not being terrible, access to invulns and enhanced FNP, etc and it makes Nobz a lot better. I'm not trying to get to Wulfen levels of silly but trying to make a Nob squad respectable without being an outright joke or insanely OP. I don't think people want to see the Nob Stars of 5th edition make a return. Also having grots mixed into the unit means that is a lot of LOS wounds to throw in front of high strenght attacks or just tanking wounds in general for the Nobz.

Trukks assuming the 4+ downgrade pen to glance is 50% of the time would ignore a pen and it just glances so explosion results are less likely to happen. Trukks will still explode but its less likely and with the new mob rule the unit inside stays in the fight without being pinned like a bunch of cowardly grots. This makes basically every unit riding in a trukk that much more effective.

Stormboyz having 5+ cover gives them some protection out in the open without making them outright superior to boyz. I like the suggestion made by Grimskul to give Zagstruk MTC as it would make his squad of stormboyz that much more elite and can rokkit run without fear of killing themselves. Again Mob Rule changes make stormboyz survive longer and the Nob having 4+ armor helps once they get into the fight. Ignore cover is crazy good against Orks but not every shooting attack can have ignore cover (even Tau has to have enough markerlights to mark up each unit to give ignores cover). Small stormboyz squads are that much more viable.

10 point burnas would be insane just saying. A unit of all flamers tends to be either too good or impractical as there aren't enough cheap bodies to soak up casualties. As they currently stand they are decently strong and the new mob rule would help them. The price drop down to what the other specialist orks have will make them that much better. Again small changes can yield game changing results when everything is added up across an entire army.

Every vehicle basically got better in some way so they will have that much more impact in the game. We don't need wraithknight levels of to make Orks playable. Deff Dreads are maybe the model that might still need more love but as I said in the original suggestion that the core rules for walkers needs to be improved to really fix them. I did intent to make Deff Dreads usable as squadrons but it seems I forgot to include that.

@Grimskul
I really like the MTC idea for Zagstruk, seems to fit with him being the boss Stormboy and having his unit of elite stormboyz who would know how to not crash into things or explode from using their rokkit packs too much. D3 HoW seems reasionable but instead I'm thinking that maybe bumping him up by 20 points and letting his klaws count as a PK again in addition to the HoW. I didn't realize until looking back that his current klaws don't count as a PK anymore so he is attacking with a choppa currently. Leadership 9 is absolutely fine considering he is a boss after all.

I would like to see tankbustas have access to more armor but i fear they would be even more OP than they currently are. The new Mob Rule and Trukks being better would directly benefit them to make them even more effective. I completely forgot to address Tankhammas as i basically never use the things or even think about them now that they have melta bombs stock. I think just having the hammers as a free swap would be fine. A 13 point model swinging 3x Str 8 AP3 attacks with tankhunter is fairly strong all things considered. Swinging at I1 (when they are base I2) isn't really a big negative and honestly won't impact much except against other Orks, Necrons, or Tau (who are already a joke in CC).

I agree with your suggestion about Big Meks or Meks in the Mek Gun squads (makes sense right?). Just not sure what they should do and if that should be a formation thing or part of their base rules. My focus was on a solid base codex and leaving more of the fancy stuff for formations.

Going back and editing the OP to reflect some changes.

 Vankraken wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Well for starters, you have the flyers costing roughly the same as they do now. I don't take them now because they are utter trash, so why would I spend points on them after you give them a minor (and i do mean minor) buff?

As far as the +1Toughness for Meganobz/nobz and Warboss, it should cost 5pts at most, 20 is utterly ridiculous, 15pts is not worth it, 10 pts is (I might take it if I had left overs) and 5pts is where it should be. Meganobz are already over priced terminators without any of hte benefits, so why give them a buff but turn it into a nerf by adding in the cost of more then another meganob just to make the 3 you take slightly more durable.

I think you should operate on the 20% rule for orks. IE almost every unit is at least 20% over priced. Walkers are the exception to this rule, as they currently sit they are about 40-50% over priced. if Kanz were 25pts they would be fielded regularly, still not OP gak but good enough, doubling the grotzookas cost just because you increased the range slightly isn't worth it.

Stormboyz need a lot more love then a simple 5+ cover save, especially in the current meta of every army having ignores cover. (Except orks)

Burna Boyz, wow they suck, even with the buff (Point reduction) they are still unusable, i think 10 or 12pts a model is better, especially when you factor in them having to take an open topped vehicle to be worth anything (IE Battlewagon) also I would love for some kind of way to upgrade them to Skorcha Boyz.

Basically every vehicle you went over still sucks, they just suck a bit less with your buffs.

Battlewagonz need a complete points over haul, the Kill Kannon is 30pts and is less effective in every way compared to a Mek Gun with a KMK, which only costs 30pts

The biggest vehicle problem is the Walkers, Killa Kanz I went over, Deff Dredz need a points reduction and you can field them in squadrons of 3, Mork/Gorkanaut, giving them SHW is fine and dandy except that doesnt help them in ANY WAY, all it does it make them less likely to die on turn 1. Both completely lack a purpose in the game. They are to slow (SHW would slightly fix that) they are vulnerable to melta/AP2 and with 5HP they still die rather quickly because the current rules suck for them. On top of all of that, they DONT DAKKA! The Mork at least has a KMK but your paying through the nose for it, it should be a 2 shot KMK at least, and the KMB should be something worth shooting, The Gork should have more shots or increase to BS3 for shooting. Also both should have 2 TL Rokkits not 2 rokkits. Also in the fluff that big stupid eye they have is a weapon of some sort, I would love for that to work. And why the hell do they have a transport capacity of 6? Either make it 10-20, add in Assault or get rid of it. At the moment all it is used for is (on the off chance you actually field one) cramming a burna/loota squad into it that is maxed out with mekz, so you can theoretically get 4 IWND rolls instead of 1.

Big thing to remember is that a lot of the little changes will have a big overall impact when everything is added together. The new Mob Rule is basically a 50% take D6 hits if you have a character, 33% auto pass, 16% fearless. In the Ghazz supplement they are 50% of the time fearless and auto passing all but 16% of the time where they take extra hits. That means any squad with a Nob is basically never running away, never going to be swept, and will fight until the last model unless the Nob dies then 50% of the time they fight to the last. If the bosspole stays the same then its basically 75% of the time your not taking a single wound and auto passing or getting fearless. Nobz also having 4+ armor by default and the ability to take invuln saves and increase their FNP makes them way better in challenges and in general. More likely that PK nob will get to swing his PK and tear into the enemy. All of these changes make things like trukk boyz that much more effective. Cheaper 4+ armor compounds the increase in effectiveness of the unit. Having burnas in boyz units is also big as they get some extra firepower or a power sword in close combat.

5ppm +1 toughness seems fairly crazy for a unit of all 2 wound models with large amounts of high strength attacks. Perhaps the current numbers i suggested are too high compared to just taking a bike but 5ppm is way too low for an upgrade that would basically be an auto take. Again factor in things like 4+ armor stock, 16ppm base, big choppas being rending, mob rule not being terrible, access to invulns and enhanced FNP, etc and it makes Nobz a lot better. I'm not trying to get to Wulfen levels of silly but trying to make a Nob squad respectable without being an outright joke or insanely OP. I don't think people want to see the Nob Stars of 5th edition make a return. Also having grots mixed into the unit means that is a lot of LOS wounds to throw in front of high strenght attacks or just tanking wounds in general for the Nobz.

Trukks assuming the 4+ downgrade pen to glance is 50% of the time would ignore a pen and it just glances so explosion results are less likely to happen. Trukks will still explode but its less likely and with the new mob rule the unit inside stays in the fight without being pinned like a bunch of cowardly grots. This makes basically every unit riding in a trukk that much more effective.

Stormboyz having 5+ cover gives them some protection out in the open without making them outright superior to boyz. I like the suggestion made by Grimskul to give Zagstruk MTC as it would make his squad of stormboyz that much more elite and can rokkit run without fear of killing themselves. Again Mob Rule changes make stormboyz survive longer and the Nob having 4+ armor helps once they get into the fight. Ignore cover is crazy good against Orks but not every shooting attack can have ignore cover (even Tau has to have enough markerlights to mark up each unit to give ignores cover). Small stormboyz squads are that much more viable.

10 point burnas would be insane just saying. A unit of all flamers tends to be either too good or impractical as there aren't enough cheap bodies to soak up casualties. As they currently stand they are decently strong and the new mob rule would help them. The price drop down to what the other specialist orks have will make them that much better. Again small changes can yield game changing results when everything is added up across an entire army.

Every vehicle basically got better in some way so they will have that much more impact in the game. We don't need wraithknight levels of to make Orks playable. Deff Dreads are maybe the model that might still need more love but as I said in the original suggestion that the core rules for walkers needs to be improved to really fix them. I did intent to make Deff Dreads usable as squadrons but it seems I forgot to include that.

@Grimskul
I really like the MTC idea for Zagstruk, seems to fit with him being the boss Stormboy and having his unit of elite stormboyz who would know how to not crash into things or explode from using their rokkit packs too much. D3 HoW seems reasionable but instead I'm thinking that maybe bumping him up by 20 points and letting his klaws count as a PK again in addition to the HoW. I didn't realize until looking back that his current klaws don't count as a PK anymore so he is attacking with a choppa currently. Leadership 9 is absolutely fine considering he is a boss after all.

I would like to see tankbustas have access to more armor but i fear they would be even more OP than they currently are. The new Mob Rule and Trukks being better would directly benefit them to make them even more effective. I completely forgot to address Tankhammas as i basically never use the things or even think about them now that they have melta bombs stock. I think just having the hammers as a free swap would be fine. A 13 point model swinging 3x Str 8 AP3 attacks with tankhunter is fairly strong all things considered. Swinging at I1 (when they are base I2) isn't really a big negative and honestly won't impact much except against other Orks, Necrons, or Tau (who are already a joke in CC).

I agree with your suggestion about Big Meks or Meks in the Mek Gun squads (makes sense right?). Just not sure what they should do and if that should be a formation thing or part of their base rules. My focus was on a solid base codex and leaving more of the fancy stuff for formations.

Going back and editing the OP to reflect some changes.

I definitely agree with Zagstruk getting a points bump if he gets to keep the PK + HoW + MTC for his Stormboyz squad, we can't have our cake and eat it too like some of the other factions . Also fair point regarding tankbustas, I guess we don't need even more reasons to consider them as auto-includes, and giving them armour negates one of the few weaknesses they have currently.

I think for the Meks and the re-roll for strength/attacks for Deffguns and Mek Guns, it would probably make the most sense in a Mek Gun/Dakka Dakka formation that involves the units we mentioned, it's probably safer since we don't want to overbloat the individual model rules by too much. While we're at it, I guess the only other tweak I missed was to give back burnas to Mekboyz/Big Meks as a weapons option. I still have my old Big Mek from 5th ed modelled with a burna and I have to pretend its a killsaw now

I am sorry, but how are Tankbustas OP? Your paying 13pts for a model with a BS2 Rng 24 Rokket Launcha. Yeah they have melta bombs but they have to get into CC to use them. 6+ saves aren't helping them either since almost every gun in the game can ignore that.

Are Tank Bustas good? yeah they are, but they aren't OP

I think the problem here is that you guys don't understand the difference between OP and good. In our codex there is ZERO units that are OP. We have 2 maybe 3 units that are good but not OP. The problem is that in our codex anything that would be considered "good" in other codices looks like cheese in ours because most of our codex is unplayable trash.

I understand you guys want to seem to be fair to everyone else and I understand that you never want to be considered cheese like the Eldar Codex, but you have to realize that GW isn't going to do a downturn on the power levels, they are going to keep cranking it up a notch because that is what sells models for them. In other words go a bit crazy, don't go Scatbike level crazy but you need to amp it up a bit.

SemperMortis wrote:
I am sorry, but how are Tankbustas OP? Your paying 13pts for a model with a BS2 Rng 24 Rokket Launcha. Yeah they have melta bombs but they have to get into CC to use them. 6+ saves aren't helping them either since almost every gun in the game can ignore that.

Are Tank Bustas good? yeah they are, but they aren't OP

I think the problem here is that you guys don't understand the difference between OP and good. In our codex there is ZERO units that are OP. We have 2 maybe 3 units that are good but not OP. The problem is that in our codex anything that would be considered "good" in other codices looks like cheese in ours because most of our codex is unplayable trash.

I understand you guys want to seem to be fair to everyone else and I understand that you never want to be considered cheese like the Eldar Codex, but you have to realize that GW isn't going to do a downturn on the power levels, they are going to keep cranking it up a notch because that is what sells models for them. In other words go a bit crazy, don't go Scatbike level crazy but you need to amp it up a bit.

The goal is to make a functional Ork codex instead of something that doesn't (like the current one). All these changes are designed to address the major core issues of the Ork dex (morale being the major roadblock to success) and in doing so will elevate the entirety of the Ork codex up. With this trukk boyz look scary, orks won't fall apart from morale but stay in the fight until the nob dies and even then they will still keep fighting after half the leadership checks fail. Anybody can slap together some insane OP mess and call it a fix but what I'm trying to put together is something sensible that fixes Orks but doesn't break the game (GW does a good enough job at that as it is). I want Orks to be a fun army to play for everyone because they are fair and functional. I want middle of the road that take games from the best but won't rofl stomp the worst. That being said this is without any formations, special detachments, etc that have good bonuses and command benefits to ratchet up the power level.

As for Tankbustas I do think they are incredibly good but they are fragile. Better trukks and better morale situation will improve them above what they currently do. Add formations and the potential for destruction elevates even higher. I rather play it safe and see how things pan out as I plan to find some people at the FLGS willing to put the this through some test games. Hopefully something enjoyable comes from this and much fun is had for all. I don't really care too much about trying to 1up Wraithknights and Stormsurges or trying to make some insane 2++ rerollable with 4+ FNP Nob Deathstar to go blow for blow with whatever FOTM wolf/biker/cent/draigo/whateverstar that comes out of the IoM super friends. I just want to be able to play Orks and it feel like my units are worth putting on the table and not just playing a game of 100 ork pickup. Nothing I can do will stop whatever build people come up with because GW's rule department doesn't seem to care about quality. I do care about quality so I want to put together something respectable but not going to be the next "ZOMG THIS IS OP PLZ NERF/BAN" gak we see everytime GW puts out a new supplement or codex.

Sounds good. Add in some decent formation rules and Orks could be viable. Way to show some restraint and not just "Eldar" the Orks.

We wrote:
Sounds good. Add in some decent formation rules and Orks could be viable. Way to show some restraint and not just "Eldar" the Orks.

Which is wonderful, because we all know that GW will be toning down all the codex releases from now on.....Wait.....

SemperMortis wrote:

We wrote:
Sounds good. Add in some decent formation rules and Orks could be viable. Way to show some restraint and not just "Eldar" the Orks.

Which is wonderful, because we all know that GW will be toning down all the codex releases from now on.....Wait.....

Look, we get that you feel that the only way to go is to buff the everliving crap out of Orks, it's something we'll have to agree to disagree on, these rules are written regardless of what GW proper would do with the other factions. If you want to go and make proposed rules for Orks around Eldar/Necron level, be my guest but that's not what this thread is about.

Updated the OP with the "Orkcurion" concept I threw together a few months back. Modified it with the rules above in mind. Very rough draft.

Two Troop Slot additions:

Give all Troop slot Boyz the old ability to "mob up" with other units if they're fleeing close to a nob with a boss pole and pass a leadership test. They simple join the unit. This creates the "waves of boyz" effect.


Have no max size for a grot unit.

 Phydox wrote:
Two Troop Slot additions:

Give all Troop slot Boyz the old ability to "mob up" with other units if they're fleeing close to a nob with a boss pole and pass a leadership test. They simple join the unit. This creates the "waves of boyz" effect.


Have no max size for a grot unit.

Neither one of those is overly beneficial and the grot size one is just kinda....well useless. Kinda funny to field a couple hundred of them for giggles but what use besides being really annoying to pick up when they get swept in combat would they serve.

I will pm you, good sir.