Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have yet to start a Warhammer 40k (or any miniature) army. Mostly due to being a college student with bills to pay. Recently came into contact with a guy who is selling a Black Templar army worth roughly 4000pts. I will not know the exact composition of this army until next week, or quality of the paint job, but I do not know where to even begin an offer. The owner said we could haggle. While I understand that a lot of the price would come from the units I am getting and their quality, any advice on general rules of thumb when purchasing used armies would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

For something which is painted to a tabletop standard, anywhere around 50% of RRP would be a reasonable price to consider.

I would say no more than 50% of retail value. Unless it is very well painted, then it's just a question of how much you value the quality and choices made.

It is a interesting question which comes down to a few things.

How badly do you want the item vs how badly do they want to sell it.

1: if you want it really badly you will probly over pay.
2: if he really needs the money or just wants it gone you get a deal.
3 if you got the time and patience you can get a deal.
4: like the above guy said once you buy it, it loses 50% of its value, so if its painted when you buy it maybe 50/60% depending on theory 1 and 2

 Eldarain wrote:
I would say no more than 50% of retail value. Unless it is very well painted, then it's just a question of how much you value the quality and choices made.

And if you want all of it.

Be very realistic about what parts of it you want and what parts of it you do not want and value accordingly.

I don't really understand why it would only be worth up to 50% of the retail value. I like to buy painted minis from time to time and would pay RRP or above for a good standard of assembly and painting. It just depends on what you value I guess, if all you want is some nice looking models to game with they're potentially worth more than the new sprues. The seller probably has a figure in mind already and then you can negotiate from there, once you know which models are involved you can compare to the prices GW sells the models at and plus/minus a reasonable amount depending on their aesthetic quality.

As said, you start at 1/2 the price. That hurts when you bought something and trying to get rid of it and selling it for 1/2 of what you paid for.

Then you have to consider it's already modelled and painted. Let's say it's a crap job. Now will you take the time to strip the paint and paint over it? Another thing to consider as well now, since it's already put together, you can't personalize it to yourself.

So is saving 1/2 the price worth it to you when you have to invest more time to strip the paint and repaint them. Now you will have to buy paint remover and spend time letting the minis soak. For some, the extra hours or even days/week is worth saving 50%.

Will you like how they are modelled? Will it upset you that there is no personalization that you made to it? Can you really call these your own knowing that you didn't personalize them? For some it doesn't matter, for others it does.

Even if the paint job is good/excellent will you still strip the paint so you can personalize it?

Usually when buying used once something is cut off the sprue, the value can be 25% or even less of what you pay for, because people like/love to model and want personality.

I bought a bunch of Tyranid gaunts used. To me they are never the same as the ones I built and suffered making and painting them.

So much to consider.

Also Black Templar are not considered to be very "strong". Do you need to win with plastic toy soldiers? Will you use these as Black Templar or another "counts as" army?

This can be a great way getting into GW and 40K, but can be turned off by it not being "your army" or even worse, playing it as something that is not very strong and you stop enjoying playing.

Plus for buying used, CHEAP. You save money.

Negative for buying used. It's not personalized. If trying to make it more personal or at least to your acceptance, it will take more time and effort. Is this time and effort worth the money saving?

Be sure to check for assembly defects, especially plastic cement spills (these will be areas where the details seem to have melted away) and sloppy conversions. Most people overlook these and think they can fix it but it will look bad unless you know what you're doing (coming from someone who tried to "fix" these, eyeballing it doesn't work at all).

Watch out for "Count-as" conversions. if he's using a toy tank and converted it up to look like a land raider, it doesn't matter how good it looks, you should never let him value it at the cost of an actual land raider. Similarly, discount any "scratch built" items from the cost entirely; I honestly have never seen a good scratch build item being sold. Ever. Most of the time it was either another cost-saving measure or someone trying to make a quick buck with some second-hand store toy. If you can, don't even take them. Most people would bundle them with the main army simply because they can't find a way to move them otherwise.

Also, you may wanna do some research on the types of models present. 10 snap-fit tactical marines from Assault on Black Reach is NOT the same as 10 tactical marines made from the standard box. If he insists on pricing them that way, call him on his bull, cuz he's trying to cheat you.

Finally, while I don't like to go into the specifics of pricing, here are some haggling tips:

Generally people don't like breaking up armies, so you will have to give some leeway here if you just want a portion of it, and understand that whatever you don't take will likely be even harder for him to sell, so give him some incentives. Conversely, if you take more or the entire lot, ask for a cheaper discount since you are making his life easier.

As with the above, do not be pressured into thinking you need to take everything; get only what you need and within budget; only splurge if you can afford it and if you really want the other stuff. 4000 points of stuff is a lot to take in at once so even if it's a good deal, don't be afraid to say it's too much.

Make sure that "4000 point" number isn't inflated. No one would max out upgrades on everything, even if it's modeled. Some people say the points to get more money, when in reality if you ask them for a list, most of it's inflated with extra wargear and options that no person in their right mind would take (like taking a veteran sergeant with 2 power fists, Melta Bombs and a Teleport Homer in a tactical squad). In general it's better to price it by models rather than by points.

OP, start with an offer of maybe 5-10% of retail, depending on paint quality, and be prepared to negotiate up to maybe 25-30% if it's well-painted stuff. Painted models aren't worth much so you should always start on the very low side and see how cheaply you can get stuff. The worst thing you can do is be too generous in your opening offer and end up paying way more than you should have.

xlDuke wrote:
I don't really understand why it would only be worth up to 50% of the retail value.

Because most people suck at painting, and painting your own stuff is part of the fun of 40k. Buying painted models means you have to spend time and effort stripping them before you can paint them yourself. If anything 50% is a very generous offer.

Everyone is giving out these very advanced advices. So I'll keep it simple:

- Used stuff always loses its value. Don't let the seller fool you by saying it's only used X amount of times. That doesn't matter.

- Go in informed. Ask for a list of the stuff you're buying and see for yourself how much it's worth. Don't take his word for it.

- If his asking price is high, point out the fact that you could order from online retailers such as Darksphere and get the stuff new for 75% of the GW price.

- Realize that buying from him will always be more risky than buying from a store. There could be missing parts or bad assembly you don't see at first glance. On top of it you can't build it the way you liked it. That risk should be worth something (a lower price).

- Because of the above two: Even if it's in it's original box, never pay more than 50~60% of retail value. Most people say 50 at most, but if the models are painted really well I don't mind paying 60.

xlDuke wrote:
I don't really understand why it would only be worth up to 50% of the retail value.

Because you can buy new for 75-80% of retail and you almost certainly don't want everything in the bundle.

Add in that most people's painting and assembling is pretty poor and you're stuck with whatever odd choices they made equipping units unless you're going to buy more models and try to paint them to match. Either way there's a load of hassle there.

This is why ~30% of retail is common. You do see retail or more very occasionally but that will be for a very well composed and painted army and those are rare to see for sale (when someone is selling an army like that there are no shortage of takers and advertising it is not required).

- Ask for pics. I've traded for armies and got ones that someone waaaay overprimed and I've had to spend hours stripping them.

- Take your time. Look for the right army for you. Your spending a lot of money.

- Do research! Make sure you are not buying a bunch of guardians, when you really want scat bikes.

- Anyone selling "X points of models!" is a red flag. They should be offering you a MSRP of their army.

- Bartertown is a great site for this. I've bought/sold/traded many armies here.