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I just picked up Captain Centos and he has special rules listed below, but no details on how many points he cost or how he can be taken in formations. I feel like thats kind of important to make him useful, any ideas?

I am a little disappointed that his rules aren't complete and I didn't realize that he was not plastic either.

GW will probably need to answer this faq but assuming from the last special character. This guy likely replaces a standard captain in a space marine army and is just a free upgrade that has a free powerfist and ability to use the ultramarine tactical doctrine twice a game.

However yea GW needs to answer this.

A bit OT, but I thought this thread was better than starting another one. I've got my Centos, and it seems that it doesn't show a points value. Should we assume it's a normal captain price? Free?

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
A bit OT, but I thought this thread was better than starting another one. I've got my Centos, and it seems that it doesn't show a points value. Should we assume it's a normal captain price? Free?

Talk it over with your group. As there is no points or rules to replace a captain you already paid for in your army there really isn't any rules to field captain centos however I'm assuming the intent was just to replace a normal captain (just like the other anniversary marine) in any space marine army (not just ultramarine). If your group has issues with replacing the captain wih centos until gw clarifies then feel free to field the minature as a normal captain with powerfist until they answer the faq.

As point cost is still not clear, the detachment in which Cpt Centos will be MUST be Ultramarines. You are not allowed to brake 'Chapter Consistency' rules.
Btw once again I can't understand why GW release model with such narrow usability... He could just have Chapter Tactics rule without Chapter name and so many more players could use him in play...

gungo wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
A bit OT, but I thought this thread was better than starting another one. I've got my Centos, and it seems that it doesn't show a points value. Should we assume it's a normal captain price? Free?

Talk it over with your group. As there is no points or rules to replace a captain you already paid for in your army there really isn't any rules to field captain centos however I'm assuming the intent was just to replace a normal captain (just like the other anniversary marine) in any space marine army (not just ultramarine). If your group has issues with replacing the captain wih centos until gw clarifies then feel free to field the minature as a normal captain with powerfist until they answer the faq.

Oh man, GW, can you ever make clear rules?

danyboy wrote:As point cost is still not clear, the detachment in which Cpt Centos will be MUST be Ultramarines. You are not allowed to brake 'Chapter Consistency' rules.
Btw once again I can't understand why GW release model with such narrow usability... He could just have Chapter Tactics rule without Chapter name and so many more players could use him in play...

Yeah, he'll probably just end up as a pretty looking mini or a WGPL or something.

Until GW clarifies, I'd just use him as a regular captain, pay for the PF, and get the rule for free. That's just me though.

 Bi'ios wrote:
Until GW clarifies, I'd just use him as a regular captain, pay for the PF, and get the rule for free. That's just me though.

This is what I do also, to best reduce encountering possible issues.

Per Warhammer 40,000 Facebook, Brother Captain Centos is a free upgrade for a Captain. Enjoy your 90 pt Power Fist Captain with a free Tactical Doctrine, Ultramarines players.

Soon every ultramarine model will be a special character. Disappointing he is ultramarine only.

gungo wrote:
Soon every ultramarine model will be a special character. Disappointing he is ultramarine only.

I am making custom rules for the other C:SM Chapters, but otherwise, yeah, it is pretty crappy of them.

<sigh>

It would have been nice to have some balanced rules for this guy.

While he might come with a free powerfist and a nice army-wide boost, at least he has some opportunity costs associated with him. He’s in power armor, not artificer armor. He just has his 4++ Iron Halo to keep him alive long enough to strike with his powerfist at I1. No SE, no EW. No other fancy special relics. No specialist weapon to pair with the fist, or SS to take up the extra hand. He’s using a bolter, not even a combi.

As an individual model on the table, he’s going to be lackluster.

The extra doctrine on the other hand is going to be kind of nice. Maybe. It’s the best of the lot, but one that can already be spammed a bit. Part of me has an itch to put him in a UM battle demi-co gladius with Calgar. 5 turns of the tactical doctrine. Tacticus Maximus, engage!

 Nevelon wrote:
<sigh>

It would have been nice to have some balanced rules for this guy.

While he might come with a free powerfist and a nice army-wide boost, at least he has some opportunity costs associated with him. He’s in power armor, not artificer armor. He just has his 4++ Iron Halo to keep him alive long enough to strike with his powerfist at I1. No SE, no EW. No other fancy special relics. No specialist weapon to pair with the fist, or SS to take up the extra hand. He’s using a bolter, not even a combi.

As an individual model on the table, he’s going to be lackluster.

The extra doctrine on the other hand is going to be kind of nice. Maybe. It’s the best of the lot, but one that can already be spammed a bit. Part of me has an itch to put him in a UM battle demi-co gladius with Calgar. 5 turns of the tactical doctrine. Tacticus Maximus, engage!

I am verifying whether or not you can actually use Centos in a Gladius. Since they phrased it that he is an upgrade to a Captain, I would say so, but I still would like clarification. Yes, his stats are lackluster, but he is dirt cheap for what you get and he combines well with Calgar to make for a buttload of Doctrines.

gungo wrote:
Soon every ultramarine model will be a special character. Disappointing he is ultramarine only.

This is one reason why all other Chapters cry themselves to sleep for not being Ultramarines.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am verifying whether or not you can actually use Centos in a Gladius. Since they phrased it that he is an upgrade to a Captain, I would say so, but I still would like clarification. Yes, his stats are lackluster, but he is dirt cheap for what you get and he combines well with Calgar to make for a buttload of Doctrines.

If you are taking the facebook post as “official” it does say replace any captain. So I’d be inclined to say “yes” for gladius inclusion.

The place I think he is going to shine is in low-ish points full company lists. You are normally scraping points for upgrades, so the HQs are going to be naked, or nearly so, anyway. You are also spamming a ton of tacs, and other units that benefit from the doctrine. So he offers a free fist and army boost, and it’s not like you were going to trick out a custom captain anyway.

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am verifying whether or not you can actually use Centos in a Gladius. Since they phrased it that he is an upgrade to a Captain, I would say so, but I still would like clarification. Yes, his stats are lackluster, but he is dirt cheap for what you get and he combines well with Calgar to make for a buttload of Doctrines.

If you are taking the facebook post as “official” it does say replace any captain. So I’d be inclined to say “yes” for gladius inclusion.

The place I think he is going to shine is in low-ish points full company lists. You are normally scraping points for upgrades, so the HQs are going to be naked, or nearly so, anyway. You are also spamming a ton of tacs, and other units that benefit from the doctrine. So he offers a free fist and army boost, and it’s not like you were going to trick out a custom captain anyway.

Pretty much exactly my thoughts. The FB post is "Official" more so than a random email from a GW employee since it can't be manipulated nearly as easily. I am still salty over the fact he is UM only. Still, I think I could convince my gaming group to allow my custom versions. All I have left to make is the Black Templars version and I will be set.

What chaps my ass about it is that there are already established captains for every Ultramarine company. If he is the third company captain why not just name the model captain Fabian, or Captain Ventris... Captain Centos has no established fluff at all as near as I can tell, and I've never heard of him before and Ive read a lot about the ultramarines.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am verifying whether or not you can actually use Centos in a Gladius. Since they phrased it that he is an upgrade to a Captain, I would say so, but I still would like clarification. Yes, his stats are lackluster, but he is dirt cheap for what you get and he combines well with Calgar to make for a buttload of Doctrines.

If you are taking the facebook post as “official” it does say replace any captain. So I’d be inclined to say “yes” for gladius inclusion.

The place I think he is going to shine is in low-ish points full company lists. You are normally scraping points for upgrades, so the HQs are going to be naked, or nearly so, anyway. You are also spamming a ton of tacs, and other units that benefit from the doctrine. So he offers a free fist and army boost, and it’s not like you were going to trick out a custom captain anyway.

Pretty much exactly my thoughts. The FB post is "Official" more so than a random email from a GW employee since it can't be manipulated nearly as easily. I am still salty over the fact he is UM only. Still, I think I could convince my gaming group to allow my custom versions. All I have left to make is the Black Templars version and I will be set.

I don't think his question was anything about it being official, but the fact you can not take special characters in place of other models in a formation unless it's included in the army list of the formation. Just because centos is a free upgrade still doesn't circumvent this rule.

For instance someone asked in the GW faq if a special character such as commander pask can be taken in a tank formation instead of the normal tank commander. The answer was no.
Now for reference commander pask is included in the tank commander dataslate as a 40pt upgrade to the tank commander.
So the question is of a 40pt special character upgrade can't be included in the tank formation why would a 0pt special character upgrade be allowed in the battle company? It shouldn't
I would say the anniversary and centos should not be allowed as part of a formation and may only be included in a detachment thats not unit/model restricted.

 6^ wrote:
What chaps my ass about it is that there are already established captains for every Ultramarine company. If he is the third company captain why not just name the model captain Fabian, or Captain Ventris... Captain Centos has no established fluff at all as near as I can tell, and I've never heard of him before and Ive read a lot about the ultramarines.

100% Agreed. Presumably, he's from a prior age and is long dead. Honestly, I think the people who come up with these rules don't think things through at all.

gungo wrote:

I don't think his question was anything about it being official, but the fact you can not take special characters in place of other models in a formation unless it's included in the army list of the formation. Just because centos is a free upgrade still doesn't circumvent this rule.

For instance someone asked in the GW faq if a special character such as commander pask can be taken in a tank formation instead of the normal tank commander. The answer was no.
Now for reference commander pask is included in the tank commander dataslate as a 40pt upgrade to the tank commander.
So the question is of a 40pt special character upgrade can't be included in the tank formation why would a 0pt special character upgrade be allowed in the battle company? It shouldn't
I would say the anniversary and centos should not be allowed as part of a formation and may only be included in a detachment thats not unit/model restricted.

I’d like to see a more official answer then facebook, because you do have a valid point. On the flip side, in the AoD supplement, we get the capheractii terminator captain, who explicitly has rules allowing him to sub into formations. It’s one of the problems with the whole formation system. The list of what they include is obsolete once they release new things. So you either need a little footnote on every subsequent unit telling you what it can sub for, or you get things where stuff should fit, but can’t. Simply due to the order of release.

It’s just yet another example of GW’s sloppy rules. Frankly the who situation could be cleaned up with a one page PDF dataslate with a little sidebar. Or even a quick and dirty FAQ. But there should be something a little more structured then an off-hand comment on facebook. Especially one that causes more questions then it answers.

On the topic of fluff, I agree. The Ultras have a well defined list of captains already. And frankly, too many special characters as it is. This guy should have been either generic, or given to another chapter to give them a little time in the sun.

@Kriswall,

You would have to go pretty far back; Centuries... The quite capable Captain Fabian's captaincy has been since the invasion of Hive fleet Behemoth at the Battle for Macragge in 40,745 and is still Master of the arsenal as of 40,999. This is after serving for decades in the 1st company and 3rd company, both times under Captain Invictus, his mentor and best friend.

Before he was killed immediately before the Battle for Maccragge, Captain Ardias commanded the third company for nearly a century.
And before that, before his promotion to 1st company, Captain Invictus was Master of the arsenal for an amount of time that is not clear, but if his legacy is anything to go by his reign as Master of the arsenal must have lasted many centuries... This guy was seriously one of the better heroes the Ultramarines ever had, until he was lost alongside his entire company, and succeeded by Captain Agemman from second company... also allowing Captain Sicarius to move to second company from 5th company.

Sorry for the fluff rant, I just love this stuff so much and love talking about it. My conclusion is that Captain Centos is much more likely to be from a successor chapter than the Ultramarines.. I'll dig a bit more, if his extra tactical doctrine rule is anything to go by, he may have been a captain in a reserve company and 'Eavy metal just painted him wrong.

 Nevelon wrote:

gungo wrote:

I don't think his question was anything about it being official, but the fact you can not take special characters in place of other models in a formation unless it's included in the army list of the formation. Just because centos is a free upgrade still doesn't circumvent this rule.

For instance someone asked in the GW faq if a special character such as commander pask can be taken in a tank formation instead of the normal tank commander. The answer was no.
Now for reference commander pask is included in the tank commander dataslate as a 40pt upgrade to the tank commander.
So the question is of a 40pt special character upgrade can't be included in the tank formation why would a 0pt special character upgrade be allowed in the battle company? It shouldn't
I would say the anniversary and centos should not be allowed as part of a formation and may only be included in a detachment thats not unit/model restricted.

I’d like to see a more official answer then facebook, because you do have a valid point. On the flip side, in the AoD supplement, we get the capheractii terminator captain, who explicitly has rules allowing him to sub into formations. It’s one of the problems with the whole formation system. The list of what they include is obsolete once they release new things. So you either need a little footnote on every subsequent unit telling you what it can sub for, or you get things where stuff should fit, but can’t. Simply due to the order of release.

It’s just yet another example of GW’s sloppy rules. Frankly the who situation could be cleaned up with a one page PDF dataslate with a little sidebar. Or even a quick and dirty FAQ. But there should be something a little more structured then an off-hand comment on facebook. Especially one that causes more questions then it answers.

On the topic of fluff, I agree. The Ultras have a well defined list of captains already. And frankly, too many special characters as it is. This guy should have been either generic, or given to another chapter to give them a little time in the sun.

Honestly I think the problem is sloppy rules writing. For instance I think in some instances formation entries such as "tank commander" is in reference to a single model which can't be upgraded and is only one model and in other instances a "tank commander" means the unit entry and tank commander squadron which may be upgraded or have more models added. The reason I think this is that emperors tank company that was in reference to pask has a web bundle did not include the tank command squadron second tank. This is also in reference to the cryptek spider question where they said it was only one model. The problem is when they write rules it's hard to tell if a tank commander means the model or the squadron as they are both called the same thing. It would make sense in the pask question if tank commander meant only the model which is why it wasn't upgradable.

He would work pretty well in my 1000-1500 ultramarines list, but I would feel just so dirty playing him because he is just a FREE upgrade to an already powerful faction.

Claiming a free upgrade on a facebook post isn't something I would like to do in a game ; )