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Do you roll for Cult Ambush one unit at a time, deploy the unit and roll for the next, OR do you roll them all before you deploy them, similar to Reserve rolls? It's a pretty big deal.





I think it works like this - A unit that deploys or arrives by Cult Ambush rolls on the chart and is immediately placed on the table, before you proceed with the next one. It's not a reserve roll, it's merely a roll to see were you can place your unit, at the time you are placing it.

This means that you will get a piecemeal comprehension of sorts of how your army will be deployed, as the rolls folds out. For instance, when you decide whether to place the first unit close to the enemy lines, you won't know if will be able to support it at the time you place it.

But the timing of the rolls is not spelled out in the codex. What do you think?

You roll on the ambush table at the same time you would be rolling for outflank. I.E. you go to deploy or enter from reserves. You choose to arrive via ambush. Roll and then place according to table.


Better question. A unit deploys via Ambush, rolls a 5. Does it get to shoot during deployment? Cause RAW I think it does.

You're free to start your own threads about other questions.

To the. First question.

You roll for reserves first. Then you use the ambush table.
So each unit must be rolled. Sepretly.

To the. Second question

Once you deploy them you do a shooting attack as if it was the shooting phase. You can then shoot again in the shooting phase.

Ghosthand wrote:
You roll for reserves first. Then you use the ambush table.
So each unit must be rolled. Sepretly.

You only roll for reserves if they are deploying via reserve, the cult could deploy via infiltrate; in which case you would not need to roll for reserves.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Ghosthand wrote:
You roll for reserves first. Then you use the ambush table.
So each unit must be rolled. Sepretly.

You only roll for reserves if they are deploying via reserve, the cult could deploy via infiltrate; in which case you would not need to roll for reserves.

Sorry did miss that it triggers if they infiltrate.

To clarify if you have units in reserve or deep strike reserve's then you'd need to roll for reserves first then the cult ambush table.

But if they are coming from ongoing reserves or during infiltrate then just strait on the cult ambush table

Ghosthand wrote:

Then you use the ambush table.
So each unit must be rolled. Sepretly.

Of course they roll separately, the question is whether you can roll them all before you deploy them.

It depends on whether or not the rulebook says to deploy units fully and one at a time before proceeding to the next one. I know most people are fine with allowing people to move things around multiple times while deploying ("actually, I think this makes more sense if I put it over here instead"), but if the rulebook says otherwise, than this is just people extending a courtesy to their opponents.

My instinct is that you roll for a unit using Cult Ambush and deploy them before proceeding to the next one.

 N.I.B. wrote:

Ghosthand wrote:

Then you use the ambush table.
So each unit must be rolled. Sepretly.

Of course they roll separately, the question is whether you can roll them all before you deploy them.

If you have 3 units coming from ongoing reserves.

1. Pick a unit.
2. Roll on the cult Ambush table
3. Resolve as per table.
4. Pick new unit.
5. Repeat points 2,3,4

Ghosthand wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

Ghosthand wrote:

Then you use the ambush table.
So each unit must be rolled. Sepretly.

Of course they roll separately, the question is whether you can roll them all before you deploy them.

If you have 3 units coming from ongoing reserves.

1. Pick a unit.
2. Roll on the cult Ambush table
3. Resolve as per table.
4. Pick new unit.
5. Repeat points 2,3,4

Yes that's what I believe. Reserves or Infiltrate, doesn't matter

But I haven't seen any written support for it, other than gut feelings. And it seems you don't have any arguments for your conclusion.

 N.I.B. wrote:

Ghosthand wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

Ghosthand wrote:

Then you use the ambush table.
So each unit must be rolled. Sepretly.

Of course they roll separately, the question is whether you can roll them all before you deploy them.

If you have 3 units coming from ongoing reserves.

1. Pick a unit.
2. Roll on the cult Ambush table
3. Resolve as per table.
4. Pick new unit.
5. Repeat points 2,3,4

Yes that's what I believe. Reserves or Infiltrate, doesn't matter

But I haven't seen any written support for it, other than gut feelings. And it seems you don't have any arguments for your conclusion.

Read pages 135 and 136 in the. BRB regarding arriving from reserves and ongoing reserves. Set it out for you

It might as well work like this:

Start of Turn
Roll for reserves
Units that passed are now considering arriving and those that failed go back into reserves.
Arriving units now all roll on the CA table.
Deploy units one at time.

Last paragraph on page 135.

When reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving onto the table as describe below. Then pick another arriving unit and deploy it.

The cult ambush rule says that your unit can roll on the table and changes. How they are deployed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 N.I.B. wrote:
It might as well work like this:

Start of Turn
Roll for reserves
Units that passed are now considering arriving and those that failed go back into reserves.
Arriving units now all roll on the CA table.
Deploy units one at time.

In all honesty I hope your right as I'm starting my cult on Monday when my order arrives. But seems like it replaces how they move onto the table

Ghosthand wrote:
Last paragraph on page 135.

When reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving onto the table as describe below. Then pick another arriving unit and deploy it.

The cult ambush rule says that your unit can roll on the table and changes. How they are deployed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 N.I.B. wrote:
It might as well work like this:

Start of Turn
Roll for reserves
Units that passed are now considering arriving and those that failed go back into reserves.
Arriving units now all roll on the CA table.
Deploy units one at time.

In all honesty I hope your right as I'm starting my cult on Monday when my order arrives. But seems like it replaces how they move onto the table

The CA rules do say that unless otherwise specified you move onto the table as described for other Reserves. Since those are described as moving onto the table one unit at a time after you've determined which ones are showing up, you'd roll for them all first and then move them on. You're just changing with CA how some of them end up coming in from Reserve.

 doctortom wrote:

Ghosthand wrote:
Last paragraph on page 135.

When reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving onto the table as describe below. Then pick another arriving unit and deploy it.

The cult ambush rule says that your unit can roll on the table and changes. How they are deployed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 N.I.B. wrote:
It might as well work like this:

Start of Turn
Roll for reserves
Units that passed are now considering arriving and those that failed go back into reserves.
Arriving units now all roll on the CA table.
Deploy units one at time.

In all honesty I hope your right as I'm starting my cult on Monday when my order arrives. But seems like it replaces how they move onto the table

The CA rules do say that unless otherwise specified you move onto the table as described for other Reserves. Since those are described as moving onto the table one unit at a time after you've determined which ones are showing up, you'd roll for them all first and then move them on. You're just changing with CA how some of them end up coming in from Reserve.

Not sure what you're saying - you think Ambush rolls all at once?

In many/most games there will be no reserve rolls at all for the Cult. Turn 1 - your whole army has Infiltrate. You swap the infiltration for Cult Ambush. Roll all at once and move them onto the table. Or roll one unit at a time and move it onto the table?

 N.I.B. wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

Ghosthand wrote:
Last paragraph on page 135.

When reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving onto the table as describe below. Then pick another arriving unit and deploy it.

The cult ambush rule says that your unit can roll on the table and changes. How they are deployed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 N.I.B. wrote:
It might as well work like this:

Start of Turn
Roll for reserves
Units that passed are now considering arriving and those that failed go back into reserves.
Arriving units now all roll on the CA table.
Deploy units one at time.

In all honesty I hope your right as I'm starting my cult on Monday when my order arrives. But seems like it replaces how they move onto the table

The CA rules do say that unless otherwise specified you move onto the table as described for other Reserves. Since those are described as moving onto the table one unit at a time after you've determined which ones are showing up, you'd roll for them all first and then move them on. You're just changing with CA how some of them end up coming in from Reserve.

Not sure what you're saying - you think Ambush rolls all at once?

In many/most games there will be no reserve rolls at all for the Cult. Turn 1 - your whole army has Infiltrate. You swap the infiltration for Cult Ambush. Roll all at once and move them onto the table. Or roll one unit at a time and move it onto the table?

If they're in reserves, roll as normal to determine who's coming in. When they come in do it one unit at a time, for CA roll on their table to see what effect. The CA rule says "instead of arriving from Reserves normally", so they have to be in Reserves. You still have to roll to come in from Reserves, Infiltrate doesn't automatically make those in Reserves come in on turn one.

 doctortom wrote:
The CA rule says "instead of arriving from Reserves normally", so they have to be in Reserves. You still have to roll to come in from Reserves, Infiltrate doesn't automatically make those in Reserves come in on turn one.

Nope:

Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or that arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can chose to roll on the Cult Ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from Reserves normally.

As I said - no need for any reserve rolls. Since the decurion detachment gives all units Infiltrate...

You cannot arrive from reserves without making a reserves roll.

The cult has rules that allow them to enter ongoing reserves. Once in, they need to roll to come back out. When they come back out you have a choice to enter normally (no additional roll), through outflank granted by infiltrate(roll a d6 to determine table edge), or ambush(roll d6 see chart). Make your choice and roll, or not, accordingly.

Don't ongoing reserves come in automatically? Why would you ever need to roll for reserves. Turn one they all infiltrate and instead use cult ambush. After that if they use into the shadows to go back into ongoing reserves the come in automaticly the next turn no rolls needed.

Edit

I would say roll for each unit then place it. Cult ambush is very powerful and it needs some drawback (such as the randomness) to keep it fun. If you get to roll for all units then place them I think it might become a bit too overwhelming (heck even one at a time it will likely be very overwhelming). The big question is can you reenter the shadows the same turn you arrived? or is there a rule somewhere that prevents it. I know flyers can't come from reserves and leave the same turn but does that rule effect GSC?

Timeshadow wrote:
Don't ongoing reserves come in automatically? Why would you ever need to roll for reserves. Turn one they all infiltrate and instead use cult ambush. After that if they use into the shadows to go back into ongoing reserves the come in automaticly the next turn no rolls needed.

Because the rule is covering going into Reserves as well as going into Ongoing Reserves, and you roll for coming out of Reserves. They aren't put in Ongoing Reserves at the start of the game. Page 136, Ongoing Reserves: "If a unit enters Reserve part way through the bame, such as a Flyer leaving the battlefield, this is referred to as entering Ongoing Reserves." They don't reference starting the game in Reserves as being in ongoing Reserves, and Infiltrate does not specify that you are always in ongoing Reserves. Therefore, you must roll to come out of Reserves as that is how to normally come out of Reserves. Addressing N.I.B's point, rolling on the table does not address when you roll on the table - you roll on the table when you are coming out of Reserves or ongoing reserves. You still have to be able to come out legally. Unless you have a specific rule that lets yo come out on the first turn, you have to roll.

 doctortom wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
Don't ongoing reserves come in automatically? Why would you ever need to roll for reserves. Turn one they all infiltrate and instead use cult ambush. After that if they use into the shadows to go back into ongoing reserves the come in automaticly the next turn no rolls needed.

Because the rule is covering going into Reserves as well as going into Ongoing Reserves, and you roll for coming out of Reserves. They aren't put in Ongoing Reserves at the start of the game. Page 136, Ongoing Reserves: "If a unit enters Reserve part way through the bame, such as a Flyer leaving the battlefield, this is referred to as entering Ongoing Reserves." They don't reference starting the game in Reserves as being in ongoing Reserves, and Infiltrate does not specify that you are always in ongoing Reserves. Therefore, you must roll to come out of Reserves as that is how to normally come out of Reserves. Addressing N.I.B's point, rolling on the table does not address when you roll on the table - you roll on the table when you are coming out of Reserves or ongoing reserves. You still have to be able to come out legally. Unless you have a specific rule that lets yo come out on the first turn, you have to roll.

But why would you ever keep any units in reserves first turn? I guess you could use it to NULL deploy but otherwise just go crazy rolling for everything that you don't want deployed normally. After the first turn they are all in ongoing reserves so no roll right.

Timeshadow wrote:

But why would you ever keep any units in reserves first turn? I guess you could use it to NULL deploy but otherwise just go crazy rolling for everything that you don't want deployed normally. After the first turn they are all in ongoing reserves so no roll right.

Because you're in Reserves, not Ongoing Reserves at the beginning of the game, and you HAVE to make a roll go come out of reserves.

And no, still being in Reserves from the beginning of the game on the second turn does NOT make you automatically in Ongoing Reserves in there. You have no choice after you've put them in Reserves. The choice is made by you as to whether you put them in Reserves or don't put them in Reserves at the start; if you do you still have to follow the rules for rolling to see if they come on. You have to enter Reserves midgame to go into Ongoing Reserves; still being in Reserves from the start is not entering midgame.

Dudes, why all this talk about reserves? You roll on the chart instead of deploying by INFILTRATE.

 N.I.B. wrote:
Dudes, why all this talk about reserves? You roll on the chart instead of deploying by INFILTRATE.

Also by coming in from reserves

I see a lot of people arguing the same point in a different way and thinking they are in disagreement when they are not.

So are we saying you would roll differently when coming in from reserves vs setting up as infiltrators? Roll and resolve place unit for reserves, roll all if infiltrating?

No. You always place one unit at a time. Deloyment or reserves or whatever. Each unit rolls for ambush.