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https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/40K_The_Rules_v1.2_Nov16.pdf

They made preferred enemy work on plasma cannons! - page 5
Tank Shock *can* kill people! - page 8
Building Void Shields are immune to grav - page 10
You can in fact move through walls - page 11
Multi-faction units count as being each component faction for Hatred/Preferred enemy - page 11
building on top of that, preferred enemy/hatred etc work on an entire unit if any one model in the unit qualifies - page 13
Cataphracti captains absolutely do grant slow and purposeful to the whole unit - page 15
One Grenade per unit per assaulkt <3 - page 16

Suddenly Emprah's Talon Plasma Sentinels are Actually A Good Idea, and the haemotrope becomes a lot easier to use if you can score the much easier preferred enemy rule instead of having to go twin linked all the time.

Also, i'm going to get just so many Executioners now

The confirmed loss of AoE effects from within a transport does sting a bit, but PE plasma cannons are going to be where they should be again.

You can shoot from transports again ie no snap shots. DE are happy and my breachers.

And none of this will matter when we all need to learn new rules next year lol.

Not super happy about the grenade thing, it really defeats the purpose of buying grenades for a unit, at least IG always have it as an option. I'd be a lot more annoyed having to pay for Krak grenades as a space marine player for example. It really gave infantry a fall back plan for dealing with monstrous creatures and makes no sense that only one guy would bother with a grenade. It also calls into question why on earth a guard player would take demolitions to get melta bombs on a squad when only one guy can throw one per turn.

But honestly aside from that and the personal annoyance that ordnance russes still can't fire other weapons (and let's be honest, thats not something a FAQ would fix) it seems pretty good. Several things, like blast weapons, went back to 6th edition rules which is going to confuse the heck out of me, but seemed like decent changes.

Also, has weapon range always been measured diagonally for units at different elevations? Because I could've sworn it was always measured on a flat 90* angle. I play so many different rulesets it's a bit hard to keep them straight at times.

I like most of the rules clarifications and the gets hot for blast changes are great because it both makes those weapons better, brings them more in line with how normal shooting weapons interact with gets hot, and makes preferred enemy useful for gets hot blasts. Dark Eldar and Tau Breachers everywhere rejoice in not being completely useless now with the jinking change.

The one grenade per unit rule just favors MSU for arbitrary reasons and makes every unit that pays per model for the entire squad that much worse.

Not letting focused witchfires, novas, and beam psychic powers work out of transports is out of left field and really pointless. My Weirdboy can Power Vomit (flamer template) out the back of a Battlewagon but he can't Killbolt a beam because reasons. Sadly my Psykers in my Inq can't zogging psychic shriek out the top of a chimera or my purifiers can't cleansing flame out of a rhino because...........?

I think I'm going to encourage house ruling the multi level blast thing to be targeted at a level because otherwise it makes elevated structures detrimental for the most part. I know 40k is an abstraction but how a frag grenade can hit somebody on the 1st floor and somebody on the 5th floor at the same time is beyond absurd.

Are you sure that's right? Those are all types of witchfire, which I would say are allowed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, found it . A weird one for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, found it . A weird one for sure.

 Vankraken wrote:
d beam psychic powers work out of transports is out of left field and really pointless. My Weirdboy can Power Vomit (flamer template) out the back of a Battlewagon but he can't Killbolt a beam because reasons. Sadly my Psykers in my Inq can't zogging psychic shriek out the top of a chimera or my purifiers can't cleansing flame out of a rhino because...........?

Because Stormlord.

Novas out of a transport make the nova A. oblong, and B. up to 12 inches larger as the fire point on an open topped vehicle is undefined. I like it as little as you do as It's a broad brush solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place, and AV12 was the only thing keeping my astropath alive to scream at people.

 malamis wrote:
Cataphracti captains absolutely do grant slow and purposeful to the whole unit - page 15

Funny. FW Cataphractis and GW cataphractis works differently then.

tneva82 wrote:

 malamis wrote:
Cataphracti captains absolutely do grant slow and purposeful to the whole unit - page 15

Funny. FW Cataphractis and GW cataphractis works differently then.

Slow & purposeful on the Cat Captain (Angels of Death) which goes to the unit, what does the FW one do?

 malamis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 malamis wrote:
Cataphracti captains absolutely do grant slow and purposeful to the whole unit - page 15

Funny. FW Cataphractis and GW cataphractis works differently then.

Slow & purposeful on the Cat Captain (Angels of Death) which goes to the unit, what does the FW one do?

Doesn't confern s&p to other units.

Roll on the SM FAQ then :|

 malamis wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
d beam psychic powers work out of transports is out of left field and really pointless. My Weirdboy can Power Vomit (flamer template) out the back of a Battlewagon but he can't Killbolt a beam because reasons. Sadly my Psykers in my Inq can't zogging psychic shriek out the top of a chimera or my purifiers can't cleansing flame out of a rhino because...........?

Because Stormlord.

Novas out of a transport make the nova A. oblong, and B. up to 12 inches larger as the fire point on an open topped vehicle is undefined. I like it as little as you do as It's a broad brush solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place, and AV12 was the only thing keeping my astropath alive to scream at people.

Shriek still works out of Chimeras, it isn't Beam, Nova, or Focussed Witchfire.

Cleansing Flame was a weird one that may have needed the hit; the rules were ambiguous before as to whether you were allowed to go 12" and cast it, and it may have been too much of an unavoidable no-chance-of-failure kill for some armies. Also the Stormlord could make the AoE stupidly big.


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tneva82 wrote:

 malamis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 malamis wrote:
Cataphracti captains absolutely do grant slow and purposeful to the whole unit - page 15

Funny. FW Cataphractis and GW cataphractis works differently then.

Slow & purposeful on the Cat Captain (Angels of Death) which goes to the unit, what does the FW one do?

Doesn't confern s&p to other units.

S&P conferring to the unit is a property of the USR, not the armour. Cataphractii ICs in 30k will do it too.

They faqd it to be not snp, just same effects
Models which join a unit in Cataphractii armour may themselves not
make Run moves or Sweeping Advances while with the unit, but may make Overwatch attacks as normal for them. If a unit is joined by a model
in Cataphractii armour, the unit is prevented from making Run moves or Sweeping Advances while the model is with them.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
They faqd it to be not snp, just same effects
Models which join a unit in Cataphractii armour may themselves not
make Run moves or Sweeping Advances while with the unit, but may make Overwatch attacks as normal for them. If a unit is joined by a model
in Cataphractii armour, the unit is prevented from making Run moves or Sweeping Advances while the model is with them.

Indeed it does - link for those interested pg 4.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
S&P conferring to the unit is a property of the USR, not the armour. Cataphractii ICs in 30k will do it too.

No they won't because FW specifically ruled that out...FW specifically stated Cataphracti IC does not confern S&P to unit he joined. How much more specific one needs to get? Yes 40k S&P confers to unit but FW cataphract armour SPECIFICALLY has been ruled as not giving. Not every FW model/equipment so if there's another FW IC that gets S&P by some other source doesn't get affected but specifically catphract armour it's been FAQ'ed by FW that no it doesn't. So unless FW changes their FAQ as long as you use FW rules you are not getting S&P to units(which frankly is how it should be. GW did bonkers stupid ruling with their own FAQ).

Is this one new ?

FAQ wrote:FLYERS
Q: If a flyer which is forced to move 18" forwards due to an
Immobilised result ends its move over an enemy unit, does it
‘Crash and Burn!’?
A: No. Use the ‘Wobbly Model Syndrome’ rule, clearly
indicating where the model’s actual position is on
the table.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Is this one new ?

FAQ wrote:FLYERS
Q: If a flyer which is forced to move 18" forwards due to an
Immobilised result ends its move over an enemy unit, does it
‘Crash and Burn!’?
A: No. Use the ‘Wobbly Model Syndrome’ rule, clearly
indicating where the model’s actual position is on
the table.

No, it was in the draft but they expanded the answer.

Q: Can you attempt ‘Look Out, Sir’ for Perils of the Warp,
failed Dangerous Terrain tests, failed Gets Hot rolls, and so on?
A: In the case of Dangerous Terrain tests, only armour
and invulnerable saves may be used. In the case of
Gets Hot rolls, ‘Look Out, Sir’ is explicitly disallowed.
For Perils of the Warp, and other non-explicit cases, a
certain amount of common sense is required. ‘Look
Out, Sir’ is intended to represent a character being
physically protected by a witting or unwitting ally – you
cannot hide from the Warp!

Q: Can you take a ‘Look Out, Sir’ roll against successful
focussed witchfire powers, especially ones that don’t have a
normal shooting profile?
A: Yes.

My next question would be:
What does "a certain amount of common sense" mean.

I'll take a wild stab at 'using fluff to justify rulings', which will have me crucified.

 koooaei wrote:


My next question would be:
What does "a certain amount of common sense" mean.

Looking at the situation in which the roll is being taken and if it's appropriate? And agreeing with your opponent?

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 koooaei wrote:


My next question would be:
What does "a certain amount of common sense" mean.

Looking at the situation in which the roll is being taken and if it's appropriate? And agreeing with your opponent?

I'm talking about justifying that you 'can't hide from warp' but you 'can hide from warp' with 'certain amount of common sense'.


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There are a few derp moments but overall it's good.

"Common sense" cannot be used in a game in which a Bike model can be in front of its non-bike unit and "jink" away wounds to stop them from hitting his unit.

Seriously think about that. He is attempting to stop his unit from getting hit ...by dodging out of the way of the bullets. Common sense indeed.

 Galef wrote:
"Common sense" cannot be used in a game in which a Bike model can be in front of its non-bike unit and "jink" away wounds to stop them from hitting his unit.

Seriously think about that. He is attempting to stop his unit from getting hit ...by dodging out of the way of the bullets. Common sense indeed.

Agreed. I shivered when I read "some common sense is required". The rules should either be written such that "common sense" is the prevailing wisdom, or written such that they are merely the rules of the game. Don't go halfsies, because it just leads to confusion. However, I really do like most of the rules they've FAQ'd. I'm fine with the biker in a unit jinking away shots - just don't pretend it's anything more than getting extra mileage out of the rules.

They kept their stupid krak grenade ruling in spite of overwhelming response against it. Bah.

Nope. They decided to go with the equally overwhelming support of it.

So this is confusing:

So you can kill "models" with Tank shock, but it is "impossible" to kill entire units, which means single model units cannot be removed as casualties as that would remove the entire unit, which is "impossible". Did I read that right?

-

 Galef wrote:
So this is confusing:

Spoiler:

"Q: How does Tank Shock work when you stop on a unit? The rules state that the models ‘must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance’ – but what does this mean? The shortest distance that allows you to be in unit coherency? Or the shortest distance to just be out from under the vehicle, with models dying if not in unit coherency and at least 1" away from enemy units? What happens if a Gargantuan Creature or Monstrous Creature or any other non-vehicle unit gets Tank Shocked, but cannot move to another place in the shortest way? Are they destroyed or just moved further away?

A: Pick up only those models actively displaced by the Tank Shock, and place them on the battlefield with all models within unit coherency, as close as possible to their starting location and with no models within 1" of an enemy unit. Any models that cannot be placed in this way will be removed as casualties. If the whole unit is displaced, it will be moved together as above, and because of this it is impossible to remove an entire unit from play with a Tank Shock, unless the unit is unable to move; units that have Gone to Ground return to normal immediately, as it counts as being forced to move."

So you can kill "models" with Tank shock, but it is "impossible" to kill entire units, which means single model units cannot be removed as casualties as that would remove the entire unit, which is "impossible". Did I read that right?

-

Would seem so. It's not hard to plan for it either since to tank shock the shocker needs to vacate its original space , which the lone model can then occupy as part of the moving away from the tank shock. With exactly one exception i'm aware of (the hades breaching drill) every vehicle that can tank shock is at least 3x3", so there'd always be space for at least 1 model slipping in behind the tanker. Now if that's where they get the 'impossible' from it does present problems for extra large models. Thunderwolves for example.

Sour grapes time: It was so nice of them to publish the FAQ/Errata right before the end of the edition.

My mantra now with meltabombs: One meltabomb, one kill. Could have 10 in a squad, but I can only use one.

Tau got a pretty good buff out of this FAQ. Models with multi-trackers can fire multiple weapons in Overwatch, and interceptor allows you to shoot at a squad in a transport. Like a Drop Pod deepstrikes, poops out a bunch of Space Marines, you can now shoot at the Space Marines.

Models with Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain can't take a FNP roll against Instant Death wounds.

And I like how they cleaned up the shooting rules for Monstrous and Gargantuan creatures.

 Galef wrote:
So this is confusing:

Spoiler:

"Q: How does Tank Shock work when you stop on a unit? The rules state that the models ‘must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance’ – but what does this mean? The shortest distance that allows you to be in unit coherency? Or the shortest distance to just be out from under the vehicle, with models dying if not in unit coherency and at least 1" away from enemy units? What happens if a Gargantuan Creature or Monstrous Creature or any other non-vehicle unit gets Tank Shocked, but cannot move to another place in the shortest way? Are they destroyed or just moved further away?

A: Pick up only those models actively displaced by the Tank Shock, and place them on the battlefield with all models within unit coherency, as close as possible to their starting location and with no models within 1" of an enemy unit. Any models that cannot be placed in this way will be removed as casualties. If the whole unit is displaced, it will be moved together as above, and because of this it is impossible to remove an entire unit from play with a Tank Shock, unless the unit is unable to move; units that have Gone to Ground return to normal immediately, as it counts as being forced to move."

So you can kill "models" with Tank shock, but it is "impossible" to kill entire units, which means single model units cannot be removed as casualties as that would remove the entire unit, which is "impossible". Did I read that right?

-

Their intention is that you cannot normally kill whole units, and the only time something should die is if it really can't move, and that's ALSO only if the "can't move" isn't being caused by having Gone to Ground. Only thing off the top of my head that fits that bill is the Tau Stormsurge. So Rhino killing a Stormsurge is in full effect, but otherwise, the chances of it happening are really, REALLY low.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:
Nope. They decided to go with the equally overwhelming support of it.

Agreed. It's definitely weird, considering no one really thinks of close combat as guys "throwing" the grenade (which sounds like a shooting attack), but the functionality is pretty good most of the time. Yeah, it sucks for large squads to pay for grenades, but I'm quite happy that Space Marine Tacticals are no longer effectively all S6 in close combat against big stuff.

Can anyone explain how tank shock would lead to casualties in a game? You must pin them against your own units so they have no 1 inch to place within coherency? How to prevent players from looping around the sides/back and placing their guys as survivors?

'pick up all models displaced then replace them anywhere (as close as possible to original position) are long as they arent within 1 inch of enemy'

Seems impossible to not be able to do this?


I have hoped for a tank shock buff, it seems if a rhino drives full speed into an enemy infantry unit, it should do some damage.

One Rhino no, Two Rhinos, now we're talking.

I'll use an arbitrary example of 5 grots on a wire, 2 inches from each other:

G1-G2-G3-G4-G5

Insert Chimera 1 into formation like so, assuming they pass their leadership.

G1\[ C1 ]/G-G G2-G3

Now insert Chimera 2 into the formation like so, again assuming they pass leadership
G1|[ C1 ]|G4-G5 G2|[ C2 ]|G3
by displacing Grot 2 and 3, the unit is no longer in coherency [FAQ pg2 col 2 para 4]. By this FAQ ruling, since they had to be removed from the table and cannot be placed back on the table in both coherency and more than 1 inch away from the tankshocker, Grots 2 and 3 are removed from play.

It is possible, albeit much harder, to do this with a single shocker and supporting infantry around it.

The power of this is that Look Out Sir doesn't apply to tank shocks, as it's not a wound. It is entirely possible, albeit awkward and obvious that it's what you're doing, that you can kill deathstar keys by throwing vehicles at them - assuming they don't death or glory you first..