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Good morning, afternoon or evening and welcome to the thread!

I recently did some tinkering at my workplace with equipment I use that measures colour in adhesives (An important part of what my company does) and I recently managed to use that equipment (during my lunch break of course, during company time I work....ish....) to recreate a Citadel colour that was almost 99% perfect match, and not just in tone, but also in coverage terms as well. I only know this because I compared the two colours earlier today and I can't tell the difference.

The biggest problem I have is that the citadel paint range is quite expensive for the size you get and although there are other alternatives that I know of, it's just not the same for me. I was wondering what the issues would be if I decided to sell a range of paint that was almost 99% identical to the citadel range in larger sizes i.e 30ml from a legal point of view, I guess there isn't much that could be done as some of the alternative colours match up to citadel paints perfect and vica versa, It would almost be like coffee companies suing each other even though they technically use the same coffee beans. The larger sizes would probably be quite beneficial for those who like doing vehicles, scenery that need to use the same colours as the race their setting it against (Or am I wrong there?....)

*EDIT*

New images and new shades, As before Citadel paint on the left, alternative paint on the right. Colour shades used and matched are Evil Sunz Scarlet, Warpstone Glow, Teclis Blue and Flash Gitz Yellow






Evil Sunz Scarlet on the right of the Bolter and this side of the helmet, Alternative shade on left side of the bolter






Citadel paint (Left), Alternative paint (right and left foot)

Thoughts? I know people are viewing this thread, would be good to get some feedback

Thought i'd try an edge application with this formula, This poor guy though, he did resist wanting to be a test subject, however ypu can see the number of tests he has been through including the original formula on his left leg, that was a matte finish but it didn't look right and you can see where i've tested other paints as well.

Glad to say that it went on beautifully. (Middle part of the backpack), this stuff should be available as alternatives to base, layer and edge (Still need to check Air)



Once I get other shades created, I'll hopefully make a video of a basic paint job showing GW paint and my paint formula.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

There are plenty of paint companies out there already, but I am not sure the markey is 100% saturated. Your photo is not great, but the colour looks pretty damn close.

Having said that, hre are some things I would think about;

1) If you are selling large pots, you probably need to concentrate on the most common colours, such as black, white, grey, red, green, blue, as close as possible to the main GW colours for those. I am not sure the colour you have there is one that is needed enough to warrant large pots.

2) If the pot is large, there is more risk of drying out, so consider carefully how to sell it.

3) Marketing. How will you make it known to GW paint-buyers without getting a cease-and-desist letter. Calling your blue Girlyman Blue will get you in trouble.

4) More marketing. Will you be pitching as base coats? Layer coats? That was also a clever bit of marketing by GW.

Hi Fifty,

I did think that about the paint companies as there doesn't seem to be many out there especially paints for modelling, but the amounts needed, especially those who do large amounts of modelling, the size of the pots sometimes isn't enough.

Regarding some of the points you mentioned,

1 & 2. The pots wouldn't be sold in any greater quantities than 30-50ml (I haven't decided on that part yet), but regarding colours, the common colours would be a better idea to start with, I only tested this one as I already had this colour made up in a different shade, I just tweaked the formula a little bit, I agree that Karak Stone isn't an overly used colour but for the purposes of testing

3 & 4. Good point, Marketing isn't my strong point, however regarding point 3, do you think GW sent a cease and desist letter to Vajjelo and Army Painter telling them to stop stocking certain blues because they were the same shade? Colour is colour and you can't really copyright it, the name can be copyrighted for sure, but the actual shade? This would come back along similar lines to computer software laws, you can copyright hardware, but you can't copyright software because it's a fundamental part of how things work, this would be the same for paint as far as I can tell.

Plus, the good thing about this paint is that you can use it as a layer, edge, base (maybe air??? need to check the viscosity on that), base and layer were just clever terms for having the same paint at different thicknesses, in my line of work, we do the same thing with glue, 5 products can be made up of the same ingredients, except for one which controls how viscous it is.

I'll see if I can get some better photos done.

For the most part the size of GW pots isn't really a problem unless you're painting terrain.

The main thing is keeping the price per pot down so that gamers can have a wide selection of paints in their collection.

The only colours I run out of are

1. Washes

2. Primers

3. Black

4. The main colour of my army (eg. the grey for my Space Wolves or the bone colour for my Tyranids).

To be honest I don't really care if I have to buy 2 or 3 pots of the main colour of my army because it's still inconsequential compared to the price of the rest of the army. I'm not crying over the $9 extra I had to spend on duplicate pots to paint a $500 army

If you're using GW paints to paint terrain, it does start to become a problem. But usually with terrain you can just swap to a paint that's cheaper per ml rather than trying to colour match a GW paint.

*EDIT 05/06/17*

Pricing hidden for now, but looks promising!

Possibly supply in 20 and 50ml sizes in dropper bottles?

Thoughts?

Would anyone want to try them to see what they thought?

Can your machines match other types of mediums? ...like Liquitex Airbrush Medium for example?

I'd LOVE to have some GW colors in the HUGE dropper bottles (like the old Createx Car Paint) for use in an airbrush (meaning - larger projects)... meaning also having the Liquitex mixed in already.

The GW AIR paints are nice but I would not buy a replica of that paint because it's so darn impossible to clean - whereas regular paint mixed with Liquitex Airbrush Medium washes up with Alcohol.

I have a huge amount of terrain (several Imperial sectors and lots of Shadow War stuff) that I'd be willing to try this on. Can you PM me a price and shipping to US for like a half-dozen bottles of certain terrain colors?

I'm not sure on the mediums/viscosities, I'd have to check that one out.

However, I did look into dropper bottles as a means of dispensing the material rather than a pot since that seems to be somewhat of a favourite amongst painters looking around the web. This paint should just clean up nicely with warm water, however I have no experience of airbrushing so I can't say much more on the subject.

If you mention which colours you would need for your terrain, I can PM you a price once/if I garner enough interest into this paint range. However the paint will be for brushes only.

Also as I've only begun to look into this, I currently have no stock or bottle available so there might be a small wait while I get the materials together.

Make a GW line and sell it in dropper bottles = profit.

Care to elaborate Elbows?

The more info I can get to fine tune this for the needs of the community can't be a bad thing!

Many like me like the paints gw sells but even more prefer bottles like vallejo has. Combining them would be dream come true.

Gw paints are generally pretty good. But theirbottles suck leading to paint drying and harder to put into palette

The reason I left Citadel paint was the pots. Once I used a dropper bottle it was game over for pots. Sure you can transfer but in time/effort/money it was easier to switch suppliers.
Color matched to GW paints in dropper bottles would be a winner.
Color matched, airbrush ready paints in droppers would be champion winners.

GW has wonderful paints, and beautiful colours.

Their prices and their pots/bottles suck ass.

Vallejo and most of the other major brands use dropper bottles. This is 10x easier for those using palettes, and much easier for those using airbrushes etc. It's definitely the preferred method of dispensing paint. A screw or pop-top pot is just not reasonable any more.

I'm pretty sure gw avoids those in silly bid to have their own brand thing. They don't want to appear to be copying other companies

Looks like this could be an interesting thing to pursue, obviously it's be nice for more members here to give their views and thought, especially those who do it big time/competitions etc.

What would be the main colours you personally use? No point marketing colours that rarely get used first.

Would you like some of the layers colours available as base colours or some of the edge shades available as base, layers etc?

Or does it really not matter so long as the paint shade is accurate and can be easily used without modifiers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should also mention that I may not be able to do metallics for the moment, but it's something that could be worked on

Hmm thats a problem as gunmetal is a colour I use large quantities of for terrain which is ideal for this approach equally I just use Folk Art instead for terrain.

If i remember rightly how metallics are produced it shouldn't be too much of a problem, but then again, I can't guarantee it yet

Well personally colours I would like cheaply in big quantities:

black(well duh)
kabalite green(sons of horus)
mephiston red

Though I would be happy to have even smaller bottles(17mm is just fine) of variety colours. Key would be getting GW like colours in those drop bottles. That would be bigger appeal than cheaply bigger amounts. Frankly the price isn't killing me except for terrain(and airbrush saves there a bit). It's the bottles I would like to replace but drop pod lines aren't as good match so makes matching existing models harder...

Of course postage would likely be big issue.

tneva82,

Postage shouldn't be too bad, I have some good contacts in a previous job so I should be able to get a decent deal, Depending on how many paints were ordered as well, the charge might even be waived/reduced, but it's still early days yet!

For ordering many paints it would be even more essential(at least for me) for wide variety of colours to be available. If I'm to order many bottles it would have to be for say several shades of greens, reds etc for layering. However 30ml of sybarite green might be bit of an overkill...So this would mean it would be more for the drop bottles.

For many smaller bottles colours I would be needing...Let's see short incomplete list(mostly colours I have been using this week so easily seen by looking at my table).

Kabalite&sybarite green, khorne&mephiston red, evil sun scarlet. Black, eshin grey, ulthuan grey, ushabati bone, administratum grey, fenrisian grey, runefang steel, iron breaker.

See what I mean that I would prefer bit smaller bottles but wider shades? Also if you could get airbrush versions that would mean quite a few bottles. Would be especially interested on FW lupercal & sons of horus greens plus above mentioned reds+evil sun scarlet.

Somebody would basically recreate entire GW range in drop bottles that would be seriously sweet. Why GW refuses to do that I don't know. They would probably increase their paint sales a lot with that.

Definitely dropper bottles -- if you could do BIG ones you'd be the only person/company offering that, especially if the price is right... I mean big like this: https://www.uline.com/BL_621/Cylinder-Squeezable-Bottles

Think over 200ml would be overkill

tneva82,

Maybe three sizes could be put on offer, 15ml, 20ml and 50ml. At least then the opportunity is there to order larger amounts if you need it.

Gunzhard,

There were several sizes on the link, 32oz (1 litre) seems a bit overkill......what size did you have in mind?

 Supershandy wrote:
tneva82,

Maybe three sizes could be put on offer, 15ml, 20ml and 50ml. At least then the opportunity is there to order larger amounts if you need it.

That would of course be optimal for buyers but the more freedom with size&colour combinations the more work it will be for you obviously

tneva82,

That's true, need to find a happy medium somewhere


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82
Fifty
AllSeeingSkink
Gunzhard
Elbows
PourSpelur
Llamahead

If I get some 5ml samples together in dropper bottles of 6 colours (White, Black, Green, Blue, Yellow and Red), would you be willing to try them out and see what you think?

Yes definitely...

I second GW paint clones in dropper bottles. I would buy that at the right price.

I couldn't tell you the most desirable versus most cost effective size... but just for reference.

The regular sized Vallejo dropper is 17ml. But Vallejo also makes their "surface Primer" in several colors in much larger sizes, 60ml and 200ml. I own several 200ml colors.

Stynlrez makes lots of colors in 120ml bottles, I own the black and white.

And Minitaire (by Badger) which is getting pretty popular sells airbrush ready paints in 30ml bottles.

If you had 60ml bottles of GW like colors at a good price I'd buy em for sure.

I'd gladly try some out - though being in the US if the shipping is too expensive, don't worry about it.

Id be interested, especially if they were in dropper bottles. And I am always interested in yellows. What GW yellow would yours be closest to?