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Hey Folks,

I'm getting back into the hobby (maybe) after a few years and was looking into getting a starter kit for age of sigmar and some paints. I was not expecting the price of paint pots to have jumped to $9/pot. Given how many of various kinds I would need for the paint jobs I would like to do, its going to be upwards of $500 in just paint. I'm still looking for high quality good paint; just not at Games Workshop prices.

I'm a big fan of the contrast & shades. I also like to paint my models on the brighter side usually with a white under coat. High quality metallics and glosses are a must.

If you are using an alternative, please provide a link to where I can purchase as well as some tips & pictures?

Thanks!

First off, there are many sellers on eBay who sell GW paint for less than the retail price. Look for them and consider that as part of your decision.

Vallejo paints are really good. The price is right but, more importantly, it's just paint. I prefer mixing my own washes and glazes, and they have mediums that thin perfectly. They also have a line called Metal Color, it's all metallics and they go on thin and opaque.

The major ones outside of GW aand Vallejo are:

Reaper
P3
Scale 75
Coat d'Arms

You can also look into Humbrol and Tamiya. Any other brand is cheaper than GW, just as saturated and vibrant and can be thinned for washes and glazes. If you want easy buttons for those, you can always pick up waterproof inks from an art store.

Vallejo Metal Color are the best, but the full range would be expensive. Use this to help you pick a selection:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346964-vallejo-metal-color-range/?p=5074160


As for your main paints, have a look at this video: https://youtu.be/et6VmcFJpXU

I would suggest you don't restrict yourself to one manufacturer. A lot of it comes down to personal preference on opacity, and this can vary quite widely even within a single range. Maybe buy paint from a range of manufacturers and try them out on some cheap models.

I saw this : https://www.amazon.com/Army-Painter-Wargamers-Complete-Paint/dp/B01N2HBOP1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3P86QAGBMVO4X&keywords=army+painter&qid=1566228758&s=gateway&sprefix=army+pain%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-4

and associated video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkI9lXhqA_Y

It looked like a good way to get a very large kit to get started with decent quality. Looks like the guy reviewing in the video you attached seems to think its pretty good; similar to vallejo; so I'll probably go this route. Its a huge kit with giant bottles for a fraction of the cost of GW and looks like it will suit my needs very well.

Thanks folks! Looks like I'll be back in the game assuming I can get some models reasonably priced as well.

Just a heads up, those Army Painter paints are really hit or miss, quality-wise. I picked up a few of them a while back and ended up tossing them because I had coverage issues. The washes are pretty good, though.

Army Painter washes are great.
I've heard it's a mixed bag for the rest. I have yet to see anyone commit fully to their range.
As suggested above, try out a few different kinds and see what available to you locally.

Honestly, just about any other brand is better than Army Painter IMHO.

Vallejo taste best.

I bought an Army Painter Mega Paint Set a few years ago when I got back into the hobby and all my old paints had dried up. It was a pretty good way to get a wide range of paints without spending a lot of money, but the previous posters are correct, they can be quite hit and miss. The washes are fantastic, and I like the silver metallics and various selected colours, but quite a few of the other colours have really poor coverage. Oftenyou can pick up two of their paints that are pretty close in colour but are remarkably different in coverage, so they can be a bit frustrating to use. I've since mostly transitioned to Vallejo Model Color and while I still have all those Army Painter paints, it's pretty much just the ones that I know are good that get any use. And the few colours that I don't use very often and therefore haven't bothered buying a Vallejo equivalent yet.

I second the recommendation for Vallejo Metal Color (NOT Model Color) for metallics, as they're by far the best water-based metallic paints I've used. If you only get a couple, I'd suggest Steel, Chrome, and Gold.

I also agree that Army Painter makes great washes. If you remember GW's old wash line (eg Badab Black and Devlan Mud), the AP washes are virtually identical.

Army Painter paints are decent, but at the very least you need to add a ball bearing or two as agitators to ease mixing. They separate like crazy and need a hefty amount of shaking.

But I like the AP metallics, specifically Gun Metal and Plate Mail Metal, over Citadel or Vallejo Model/Game color metallics. Haven't tried the "proper" Vallejo Metal Color paints but they are quite expensive and they are designed for airbrushing. They may or may not be suitable for regular brushing.

They work for regular brushing, but can be a bit fluid. Also can have a bit of an alchohol odor when first put on the model, though it goes away when it dries.

Changed over to Vallejo paints years ago and never looked back .

Miniature Market has good prices on Vallejo and Scale 75 paints and flat rate shipping as well. Hard to beat the price on Vallejo, or the quality on Scale 75 (and it's still cheaper, per ML, than GW).

They also have the Vallejo Metal Color paints although they sell fast, so set yourself up with alerts if you are looking for something specific. Scale 75's metallics are also good, just not as good as VMC, but that can also depend on your painting style.

I scooped up a Scale 75 full paint set a while back when they had a sale on eBay, so 15% off an already discounted set price, which ended up as $3.11 per 17 ML bottle. Those sales are hard to predict though.

I do have AP washes, GW washes, and some GW paints which I picked up at highly discounted prices. No real reason to pay regular GW prices though, their paint is not that good.

There are other fantastic paint brand options out there too, but we can probably make lists for days. As for painting tips, well, I m a scrub, but I generally like Vince Venturella's videos. I find his techniques rather "doable" even if I probably still can't do most of it (again, being a scrub). But his advice is generally realistic, in the sense of offering advice on multiple "levels" of quality.

The best price/performace paints are Vallejo Model Color, Panzer Aces and Game Color heavy opaque paints (share the same formula). On the the other hand I'd say Citadel are one of the worst price/performace paints on the market.

Vallejo are easy to use, good quality, high pigmented, dropper bottle, huge range and a good price, available everywhere and a range that is gonna stay.
Other ranges are also good but don't combine all the properties like VMC does.

Scale75 is high quality but it's not a beginner friendly paint and it's a bit more expensive.
P3 good paint but smaller range, more expensive and comes in pots.
Army Painter doesn't have the quality other ranges have.
Ak Intereactive Figure range is good paint but the paint a bit more transparent.

Citadel just stay away...

Don't get me wrong I use various ranges all the time and I love them except Citadel (used to but not anymore).

To someone who's a beginner or just getting a new range of paints I would highly recommend Vallejo paints.

 Weazel wrote:
Haven't tried the "proper" Vallejo Metal Color paints but they are quite expensive and they are designed for airbrushing. They may or may not be suitable for regular brushing.

They're pre-thinned, so you shouldn't add any water, but I've used them exclusively with a brush and they achieve full coverage in one coat despite their watery consistency.

The Metal Color line is pure magic as far as I'm concerned. I've only had comparable results with alcohol-based metallics, and those are just a pain to work with.

Edit: I would also second the recommendation of the Model Color line for non-metallics. They're cheap, high quality, have a great variety of colors, and are widely available.

 Weazel wrote:
Army Painter paints are decent, but at the very least you need to add a ball bearing or two as agitators to ease mixing. They separate like crazy and need a hefty amount of shaking.

But I like the AP metallics, specifically Gun Metal and Plate Mail Metal, over Citadel or Vallejo Model/Game color metallics. .

What he said.

AP acrylics are a bit of an adjustment if you're used to Citadel. Metallics are good, sprays and washes are my absolutel favourites at the moment.

For the most part these days, I'm using a mix of Army Painter and Vallejo, with some P3, Coat D'Arms and a few other bits and pieces mixed in, and gradually using up my remaining Citadel paints and replacing them with the other brands.

I highly recommend The Army Painter metallics. I'm a biased Citadel fan boy, but The Army Painter's metallics are superior. They mix much more easily than TAP's regular paints, have a higher content of metal flakes and their Shining Silver color beats the hell out of Stormhost Silver.

Vallejo can't go wrong, I just use any brand that the colour suits what I need, be it citadel or any other, just not the spray undercoats I go to halfords and buy car body primer its much cheaper.

Scale 75 are my preferred paints. I like them a lot.

Wow; tons of information.

I guess I'm in the boat of Vallejo OR Army Painter. Army painter is easy to purchase; just get the big freaking kit. Vallejo I need to piece a few together it looks like.

Vallejo looks like I could go for these 3 kits - total ~$250; so about $10 cheaper than a complete Army Painter Kit and get a full setup.
https://www.amazon.com/Vallejo-Game-Color-Basic-Paint/dp/B009LH0YTA/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=vallejo&qid=1566483790&s=gateway&sr=8-5

https://www.amazon.com/Vallejo-Game-Color-Washes-Paint/dp/B0048Z3OOC/ref=pd_bxgy_21_img_2/146-3823265-7029665?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0048Z3OOC&pd_rd_r=80b68ae5-622d-49fd-8291-2a1cb312bdc7&pd_rd_w=DobWN&pd_rd_wg=QcRZT&pf_rd_p=a2006322-0bc0-4db9-a08e-d168c18ce6f0&pf_rd_r=G9T086NBZ4XVM38FEP27&psc=1&refRID=G9T086NBZ4XVM38FEP27

https://www.amazon.com/Vallejo-Metallic-Game-Color-Colors/dp/B00ULKTT2O/ref=pd_day0_hl_21_1/146-3823265-7029665?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00ULKTT2O&pd_rd_r=4f673338-bdfb-4f05-a53a-c4026d9db617&pd_rd_w=6hAZf&pd_rd_wg=fyEIv&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=VS6ZEGKHEQK240R1QX4X&psc=1&refRID=VS6ZEGKHEQK240R1QX4X

I'm noticing there is "Model Color, Game Color, Etc.". I'm looking more for brighter; fantastical colors as opposed to necessarily "realism". (Its dragons and wizards, how real can you get?) Does that pretty much get me covered?

DrCrook wrote:
I'm noticing there is "Model Color, Game Color, Etc.". I'm looking more for brighter; fantastical colors as opposed to necessarily "realism". (Its dragons and wizards, how real can you get?) Does that pretty much get me covered?

Sure, Model Colors are often a little less "fantastically" colored indeed, but also tend to be a bit "thicker" and have slightly increased coverage (vs Game Colors). Depending on your preferred technique(s), you might want one, the other, or a mix of the two. But I don't think you "go wrong" with the Game Color set you linked.

I would not, personally, buy either of the Vallejo Wash set, or the Game Metalic set that you link above. Neither is "terrible" by any means, but I think you could do much better. AP Washes are generally considered to be "better" and the Vallejo Metal Color line is pretty demonstrably "better" in almost any way possible. While the Metal Color line "appears" more expensive, you get more per 'pot' and vastly better coverage, meaning your price per ML isn't all that far off and will likely end up doing much fewer coats to get the look you want, versus those Game Color Metallics.

I would go for the Vallejo over the Army painter for the most part.

Army Painter makes good products....EXCEPT....their basic acrylic paints. They're really the worst option out there. I'm a big AP fan (use their washes, dips, sprays...) but I detest their basic paint range. Takes ages to mix (I mean, seriously), and even then doesn't have the coverage of a normal Vallejo paint.

If you're just coming back to the hobby I'd strongly argue against buying the AP sets. You're setting yourself up for a lot more hassle/struggle/annoyance than is necessary. There is a reason they have a huge box of paints and it's relatively cheap. I'd like to see them fix their paints, but they are frustration in a bottle. Maybe they work fine through an airbrush but compared to a Vallejo as a basic brush-on paint, I cannot suggest you buy them.

We should have a pinned post with the "what paints to start with" consensus, because this seems to come up often enough. that said, here's my quick and dirty rough draft of that manfisto:

What paints to start with:

When you start the hobby, you're going to quickly learn about a dizzying array of hobby products that sounds great. How should you choose what to start with? By listening to people on the internet, of course! Let's start with paints, which at this point is pretty much the only thing everybody uses.

First, if you want to buy your paints in person, and GW is the only thing available... Citadel is good but expensive. Virtually everything GW sells is a high quality product, you just pay a high premium for it. So, if you are comfortable with GW/Citadel, and don't mind the price, just stick with them. Good talk!

If you want to try something further afield, the best thing is to buy a few paints from a bunch of different ranges, use them, and see what you like. If you have a well stocked FLGS near by, this will be easy. If you're ordering online, it might be trickier, although there are some good online shops that have healthy discounts which can quickly cancel out the shipping costs (not to mention the time spent going to the store.. although I never seem to mind that!)

Still, there is a general consensus on what to buy in terms of hobby paints. Not 100%, but for the most part, the following will steer you well:

Basic Layer colors: Vallejo Game color. Vallejo makes a ton of different lines, with each having a different target audience. Game color is made for fantasy/sci fi, and is a nearly identical mapping of the old Citadel Paint colors from pre-2012. It's got a healthy range of colors, the paints have good coverage and mixability, and they come in dropper bottles instead of pots, allowing for far more control over your paint. They're priced at the upper mid level for paints, and they don't have any really convenient starter boxes, but there's no paint with a better balance of utility, quality, price, and availability.

Washes: Army Painter. there are tons of great washes out there (and you can make your own eventually!) but if you're starting out, do yourself a favor and buy these. The Army Painter Quickshades are something different, they are cans of highly viscous shade that you literally "dip" models into. the Washes replicate this effect in a more conventional brush on wash. The set of all 11 is only $35, and worth a look, but a true starter probably needs only the holy trinity of Soft, Strong, and Dark tone. (essentially light brown, darkish brown, and almost black). Do yourself a favor and grab these, they'll help your initial models pop!

metallic: Vallejo Metal Color - While more expensive (and in larger bottles) than most hobby paints, these are the gold standard for hobby metallic. Metallics are the trickiest paints to make wrok properly, and these do. Alternative: Vallejo Model Air metallic also over smooth coverage in a more traditional dropper bottle.

Inks: Ph Martin - If you're just starting out, you probably don't need inks, but they're a great tool for any hobbyist looking to add extra color to a model. From glazing to punching up washes, inks are great. Lucky for us, the art world has a Ph Martin, who make 24 different colors of acrylic inks at $5 a 1oz bottle.

As for what colors to buy, that's up to you, but maybe we'll crowdsource the ultimate starters kit at some point.

Virtually everything GW sells is a high quality product

*coughs in finecast*

I'm noticing there is "Model Color, Game Color, Etc.". I'm looking more for brighter; fantastical colors as opposed to necessarily "realism"

There are bright colors and dark colors in both lines. Many paints in VMC match what you call a bright fantasy exactly. They also have great coverage which gives you bold strong colors. Do not chain yourself to one paint line because of the name. Colors are just colors.

I use Docasts' Artiste range with the odd Citadel paint for that elusive shade of colour. For Washes its the Army Painters set.

One thing I do know - I can't live without Leadbelcher!

SamusDrake wrote:

One thing I do know - I can't live without Leadbelcher!

P3 Pig Iron and Coat D'Arms Gun Metal are practically identical. (The Coat D'Arms one is the original Boltgun Metal, precursor to Leadbelcher)

A note on Vallejo Game Color vs Vallejo Model Color etc:


It's not just the colours that are different. VGC have some additives in them that are intended to make them better for gaming. These are a quick-drying additive and a hardening resin. The idea is that you'll do a quick paint job that can stand up to being handled in games. Personally, I hate it and add some retarder or flow improver to counteract the quick-drying effect.


VGC Extra Opaque do not have the additives. I think they're just VMC paints with "Fantasy" names.


Vallejo Game Air are the same colours as VGC, but are the same formulation as Vallejo Model Air. Both are quite nice to use in an airbrush without thinning. Both can also be used with a brush if you want very thin layers.


Vallejo Metal Color should be tried by everyone. They come in bigger bottles, ready to use with brush or airbrush. They are so smooth and cover perfectly.


Vallejo Liquid Gold may give the best result, but it's an alcohol based paint that is a pain to work with. (You need alcohol to thin it and clean your brushes). They also do a Liquid Silver, but tbh, I'd stick with the Metal Color range.

 insaniak wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

One thing I do know - I can't live without Leadbelcher!

P3 Pig Iron and Coat D'Arms Gun Metal are practically identical. (The Coat D'Arms one is the original Boltgun Metal, precursor to Leadbelcher)

Nice to have options! Thank you muchly.