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pretre wrote:Right now, 'pure sob' armies fill their troops with 10 girl squads in rhinos 'w/ the trimmings'. That's generally about 200 points or so. If you could get an immo, 2 meltas, 5 girls for 130, your lack of divine guidance is not going to be an issue. I'm not saying that is what is going to happen, but it could. Either way, cost will definitely effect the codexes efficacy.

Said army will be weak against hordes due to the lack of bolters and flamers, and it's just more marine-lite crap--razorback spam, oh joy (and don't fool yourself, immolators are razorbacks by another name now, even more than before)..

If I could, Id' definitely put more squad members in my sisters squads, but footslogging squads are just too damn vulnerable to be of any use.

Redbeard wrote:...

Melissia wrote:Battle Sisters are now offensively weaker than they were before. Thus why people are saying they no longer have any teeth.

Same argument as orks. The individual ork boy is now offensively weaker than he was in 3rd ed. Units of ork boyz, by comparison, are point-for-point stronger. You don't know the point cost, you cannot make a rational statement about whether the army is stronger or weaker. If you wish to compare individual models, that's fine, but once you start getting into the viability of the army, as a whole, you need the whole picture, which you do not have.

...

Cost is everything. With it being unknown, all other discussion about the viability of this army is based on irrational fear, not logic or fact.

This seems to be the hope of the... I'm not sure what to call them, the apologists? The optimists? The contra-contras? Whatever. It's a strange argument, that if only they make the Sisters cheap enough, it'll be a good codex.

Let's take it to it's logical conclusion: if 8 or 9 point sisters would be great, then surely 2 or 3 point sisters would be the best codex ever, right? Let's not even go that far, let's just drop the cost of a Sister to the cost of a ork boy.

Do people really think that making sisters into a power armored horde army would make for a good codex? An interesting and rewarding play style for those that have stuck with the girls?

In the end, is a codex nothing more then point costs and an armory? If so, then the hope elucidated above would seem ideal: forget the total incongruity of the Empire even having such supplies of power armor, instead let's remember that we can already make that army.

Seriously; you want mech squads of power armored T3 models? They have a name for that, it's Warrior Acolytes in Inquisitorial Warbands, from Codex Coteaz (AKA Codex: Grey Knights); 14 points (8 points if you are willing to settle for carapace), 10 point meltas/plasma/flamers 3 to a squad. Access to rhinos, razorbacks, chimeras and storm ravens, assassins, etc, etc, etc.

Heck, is anyone really going to say that this new "codex" will be as flexible or interesting as just running your existing sister units using rules from GK with a few counts as (Dreadknight rules for penitent engines, for example)? "Power" alone is not the issue: if they drop the points enough any codex, no matter how bad it's units, can be powerful. But are people really going to keep making the argument that that is a) good design, or b) emotionally satisfying to play?

Orks and Guard being horde armies is one thing: Sisters as a horde? Really?

So, those people saying "it's too early to say the army has been ruined", if your great hope is a precipitous point drop, then... it kinda isn't too late, because then there isn't really a point to the codex, is there?

Question: When exactly do you do your faith test for the Celestians?

Act of Faith rule says: An AoF can be attempted immediately before a Sisters of Battle unit acts during a phase; e.g. immediately before the unit moves in the Movement phase, shoots (or runs) in the Shooting phase, or strike blows in the Assault phase.

So RAW I should be able to move my units into assault and then do the test of faith, right?
This can be huge as what if you only have 1 Faith Point but 2 units that will assault in a phase but have to move through difficult terrain. What if one of them doesn't make it into assault, the one you used your Act of Faith on...

But from the AoF rule I take it that I can do the difficult terrain tests and if I get into combat I can chose to attempt the AoF or not.

MadCowCrazy wrote:Question: When exactly do you do your faith test for the Celestians?

Act of Faith rule says: An AoF can be attempted immediately before a Sisters of Battle unit acts during a phase; e.g. immediately before the unit moves in the Movement phase, shoots (or runs) in the Shooting phase, or strike blows in the Assault phase.

So RAW I should be able to move my units into assault and then do the test of faith, right?
This can be huge as what if you only have 1 Faith Point but 2 units that will assault in a phase but have to move through difficult terrain. What if one of them doesn't make it into assault, the one you used your Act of Faith on...

But from the AoF rule I take it that I can do the difficult terrain tests and if I get into combat I can chose to attempt the AoF or not.

RAW would agree with your interpretation - you would make the check for the Act of Faith immediately before Hit rolls were made (a particularly anal person could argue that you would make the check before the Sisters first rolled to Hit, which would generally be after your opponent had already inflicted casualties in most I4+ forces, allowing you to avoid wasting a faith point if their first strike was particularly devastating and preventing the Canoness from ever gaining her Initiative bonus, since she would have to wait for her base I4 before being allowed to buff her squad to I+1).

Buzzsaw wrote:
Do people really think that making sisters into a power armored horde army would make for a good codex? An interesting and rewarding play style for those that have stuck with the girls?

As someone who has (and still does) played Sisters, as well as Orks, yes, I think that a power armoured horde would be fun to play.

Why?

Well, firstly, I've watched people struggle to drop 90 orks. So 90 sisters in armour would be fun if only to watch your opponent's face drop when you put them out.

Secondly, I've run Sisters as a power-armoured horde in the current edition, and they're not horrible. Maybe I'm weird, but I like infantry more than tanks. I like to see 100 models on the army. I have a hard time considering 30 men and some transports an army.

Third, I think that it's a niche that hasn't been explored by other factions in the game. All existing horde armies (nids, orks, guard) are poorly armored. It's something new. Maybe it won't be OTT, but it's not another mech-spam faction.

Why else? Well, depending on the cost, I think that there's some hope for other elements of the list helping to protect the Sisters from assault. Let's say the girls are 8-9ppm, and penitents are 50. Repentia@10 or 12, Seraphim at 15. Now you've got your scoring units as big blocks of well-armoured troops. Because they're not min-sized, you can sit them somewhere and fire their bolters at full range to the same effect that meched girls have rolling up and rapid-firing.

50 point penitents gives you cheap high-threat targets that put pressure on your opponent. They're not going to charge your sisters until the engines are dead, and there's little that they'll charge a squad of penitents with. Investing 450 points in these means one or two will hit your opponent's lines (I've done this in the current codex, but it costs 720 points instead, and one or two always make it there - I've yet to play someone who stopped them all). Meanwhile, your troops are maneuvering under less pressure. What's more, you've got a unit of seraphim, now cheaper, who can bubble wrap for the big blocks of girls, and repentia, also cheaper, who can counter-assault.

It's not an unworkable strategy, it doesn't rely heavily on faith, so losing that isn't the end of the world. It does, however, rely on low-point models. And that's my hope at the moment. Because I do think this would be fun to play.

If the second-half of the codex comes out and sisters are still 11 points and penitents are still 80, I'm with the rest of you and think it sucks. But I'm willing to be patient before I pass judgement.

Ever seen 2000 points of sisters on foot? It's pretty hard for almost any army to beat. Imagine if they lower the points cost and still allow 20 man units.

No need to complain about assault. This is a mid-range shooting army not a dedicated assault army.

pretre wrote:

streamdragon wrote: 10 sisters w/ the trimmings now, will be still weaker than 10 sisters w/ the trimmings before. Being cheaper doesn't somehow make them stronger. It just means there's more weaker elements. You can drop grots from 3 points to 2, so I can suddenly field 30% more grots, but they'll still just be grots. Cheaper cost doesn't suddenly make a bolter able to hurt a Rhino's front armor. More S3 attacks doesn't suddenly pull down more MEQs than having Divine Guidance on CC attacks. Cheaper, does not equal better. Cheaper simply equals more.

So, streamdragon, if one always takes the stronger and not the cheaper version... Why don't people take full Tac Squads, full Assault Squads, etc?Why do people min/max for multiple razorbacks, etc? Quantity is a quality of its own at times.

Right now, 'pure sob' armies fill their troops with 10 girl squads in rhinos 'w/ the trimmings'. That's generally about 200 points or so. If you could get an immo, 2 meltas, 5 girls for 130, your lack of divine guidance is not going to be an issue. I'm not saying that is what is going to happen, but it could. Either way, cost will definitely effect the codexes efficacy.

Please point me to where I even remotely said "one always takes the stronger and not the cheaper version". I said that the proposition that "cheaper IS stronger" was incorrect. Cheaper is cheaper. That is all. Making a grot cheaper does not make a grot stronger. With the nerf that Sisters got in abilities (i.e., Acts of Faith), making them cheaper does not somehow magically make them stronger.

And the answer to your Tac squad dilemma is simple: Current mech spam meta game. I'm not really sure what you're looking for, especially when you point out people don't take full squads, but then go on to say that "Quantity is a quality of its own at times." There's an entire long winded answer about point efficiency, cheap cost of razorbacks and all that. But as the question really seems to have nothing to do with my initial statements, I'm afraid you'll have to clarify exactly what you're asking.

As to "lack of divine guidance is not going to be an issue", I still disagree. That little unit might not care, true. Of course, that little unit won't care because once it shoots it's more than likely going to get obliterated in return. When people, such as myself and Redbeard apparently, field big units of 20 sisters, however, having Divine Guidance is worth the couple of points difference. When you have possibly 40+ attacks charging against a unit, even 1 in 6 suddenly becoming a power weapon is worth it. It's also worth pointing out that you have only a 1 in 36 chance of failing that Divine Guidance, instead of (what would be) the current 1 in 6 at best.

Redbeard wrote:
As someone who has (and still does) played Sisters, as well as Orks, yes, I think that a power armoured horde would be fun to play.

Why?
>snipped for space<

It's not an unworkable strategy, it doesn't rely heavily on faith, so losing that isn't the end of the world. It does, however, rely on low-point models. And that's my hope at the moment. Because I do think this would be fun to play.

If the second-half of the codex comes out and sisters are still 11 points and penitents are still 80, I'm with the rest of you and think it sucks. But I'm willing to be patient before I pass judgement.

It also requires that your opponent wants to charge you in the first place; several armies (Guard, Tau, etc.) will be quite content to sit back and shoot you as you slog across the board. It also relies on your opponent not fielding a plethora of AP3 or better weaponry. I'm not sure about your area, but there's a ton of AP3 in mine. Pie plates and flame templates too, which I suppose you don't get a lot if people are struggling to take down Orks (KFF not withstanding ). I know there's always the "Use cover and tactics" argument, but I'm assuming both sides are doing so in equal measure.

A regular battle sister has gotten weaker. Her versatility has dropped, as she no longer has a variety of Acts of Faith to use to adapt to a new situation. She is also unable to use Acts of Faith at all during the opponent's turn.

You can tell me "wargear might change that!" but unless you think they're going to write up wargear that completely changes the new Faith mechanic, it won't.

You can tell me "they'll be cheaper, you can field more!" but more is not the same as stronger. More is just more.

I'm not saying "You'll never be able to win with them! OMG THEY ARE THE SUXXORS LOLZ!" I'm saying that the Sisters of Battle have been dramatically weakened. I'm saying that while other armies are using their special rules to their advantage, Sisters of Battle will feel almost like playing Marines, but with Ld issues.



Edit: Anyone else notice that Saint Celestine doesn't even have an Act of Faith?

If the Simulacrum Imperialis allowed a unit to share its faith ability to a nearby unit, that would solve some of our worries. You'd definately be taking retributors then.

IdentifyZero wrote:This is a mid-range shooting army

No it isn't. We don't have any mid-ranged shooting outside of heavy bolters on retributors. It's SHORT-ranged shooting. Barring Exorcists, frankly the army only has any power whatsoever at 3-12" range.

And just because it's a shooting-based army dosen't mean it should have no viable assault options. Orks can base an excellent army around shooting. Space Wolves are excellent whether in assault or at range. Even Tyranids have excellent choicse for both assault and shooting. Space Marines do too. Hell, even Guard can assault decently enough. Why not have a Sisters unit that can too? They're better (in terms of skill) than Guard.

Melissia wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:This is a mid-range shooting army

No it isn't. We don't have any mid-ranged shooting outside of heavy bolters on retributors.

And just because it's a shooting-based army dosen't mean it should have no assault options.

Melissia, I have noticed the only thing you have done this entire thread is be negative, criticize anything said by anyone but yourself and constantly bemoan how the world is coming to an end because of the new changes, when you haven't even seen them in their entirety.

I would suggest, for your own health and well-being, that you begin to take these things a lot less seriously and realize, that no matter how angry you get or how vehemently you disagree; you will not be able to change things.

Whatever changes GW has made, are made. I suggest you deal with it.

I also don't think you understand the meaning of 'mid'.

48" is what you would consider long range, as outside of some 72" or 60" weapons, it is the standard for long range since the beginning.

24" is what you would call mid-range.

12" is what you would call short range.

I've got some lovely Canadian cheddar cheese here, interested in a slice?

IdentifyZero wrote:I also don't think you understand the meaning of 'mid'.

48" is what you would consider long range, as outside of some 72" or 60" weapons, it is the standard for long range since the beginning.

24" is what you would call mid-range.

12" is what you would call short range.

Exactly, so why are you saying they have mid-ranged power? They don't. Their only power is 3-12" (or 3-18" if you include the 6" move), not at 24".

Without Divine Guidance, Marines have the same offensive power at the same range.

IdentifyZero wrote:Ever seen 2000 points of sisters on foot? It's pretty hard for almost any army to beat. Imagine if they lower the points cost and still allow 20 man units.

See, that's what I think too... and I regularly play folks who are completely unprepared to face down 70-120 sisters foot slogging... when one unit got assaulted, 20 nearby sisters would charge in and offer 42 attacks (superior with assaulty weaponry) to help out... while the seraphim units would be putting a large amount of pressure of stuff in the back field... then I'd have the excorsists roll in from reserve (and my callidus assassin, but that is now gone :( ) and just lay waste to everything with 13 armor or less... and if I got lucky, even av 14 would go down due to the shots being ap1.

I'd usually end the game with 1000+ pts and either annihilation win or objective wins/ties... but most people don't like to play with that many models on the ground... :/

Again, you're missing the cost factor. Marines do not have the same power at the same range, as marines cannot field as many for the points. In a shooting battle, an equal value of sisters will beat marines as they'll have more shots to take, and more wounds to give. Even moreso if they can re-roll '1's to hit.

And thinking that you need to get to rapid fire range to do anything is incorrect. 20 sisters on foot put out the same firepower at 24" that 10 sisters do at 12".

Redbeard wrote:Again, you're missing the cost factor. Marines do not have the same power at the same range, as marines cannot field as many for the points.

Not in C:WH. Probably not in this codex either.

Redbeard wrote:And thinking that you need to get to rapid fire range to do anything is incorrect. 20 sisters on foot put out the same firepower at 24" that 10 sisters do at 12".

They also cost twice as much.

Melissia wrote:

Redbeard wrote:Again, you're missing the cost factor. Marines do not have the same power at the same range, as marines cannot field as many for the points.

Not in C:WH. Probably not in this codex either.

Really? Take 1000 points, buy nothing but tactical marines or basic sisters from C:WH, and find out which one you get more of?

Redbeard wrote:And thinking that you need to get to rapid fire range to do anything is incorrect. 20 sisters on foot put out the same firepower at 24" that 10 sisters do at 12".

They also cost twice as much.

Sure, but you don't have to buy them a rhino. In C:WH, that's 5 more sisters (assuming you bought the smoke & extra armour). Let's look at C:WH, 10 girls, no upgrades. That's 110. Rhino w/ rhino upgrades, that's 168. Depending on the cost of sisters in the new codex, you might get 20 sisters for those points (8 ppm), or maybe a few more (180 if 9ppm). That means that, if the basic sister's cost is lowered sufficiently, you can exert the same force at 24" using new cheaper sisters, as you could before at 26" (and the extra 2 are disembark inches). But, you're also not going to get assaulted by whatever remains, so you're going to be able to exert that same force for 2 or 3 turns depending on how the movements actually work out.

It's not all doom&gloom. Depending on the cost of the new models, they could be just fine, or even better than the older ones.

Melissia wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:I also don't think you understand the meaning of 'mid'.

48" is what you would consider long range, as outside of some 72" or 60" weapons, it is the standard for long range since the beginning.

24" is what you would call mid-range.

12" is what you would call short range.

Exactly, so why are you saying they have mid-ranged power? They don't. Their only power is 3-12" (or 3-18" if you include the 6" move), not at 24".

Without Divine Guidance, Marines have the same offensive power at the same range.

Bolters have a 24" range. Amazing, right?

Redbeard wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:
Do people really think that making sisters into a power armored horde army would make for a good codex? An interesting and rewarding play style for those that have stuck with the girls?

As someone who has (and still does) played Sisters, as well as Orks, yes, I think that a power armoured horde would be fun to play.

Then put your Orcs in cover. Grats, you now have the equivalent of the Sisters codex with all the orkiness you can handle.

pretre wrote:
- Two, faith is more reliable but less '30 seconds on the clock and we need a touchdown'. On average, my lists had about 7-9 faith points at 2k. Now, I will have 17.5 faith points over 5 turns. Do I need 3.5 faith points on turn one? Probably not, I usually wouldn't use any on the first two turns and would burn through 3 or 4 a turn on turn 4 or 5. Will I change my approach to better accomodate this? Yes.

This is entirely incorrect. Faith is NOT more realiable then up or down. Whats more reliable? 4+ on one die or rolling under 10 on 2 dice for something like divine guiidance. FURTHER, read faith again-Your faith pool wipes out at the end of your turn. So no faith use in your opponents turn. Who cares if I have 17.5 faith by your count(personally 7-9 is rather low in 2K, I usually run about 12), if you cant use them when necessary- those repentia CANT use that power for example, in your opponents assault phase, so unless your wpining them out in yours they die in your opponents turn striking last....


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pretre wrote:Good call, S'jet. Depending on points, that could be entertaining.

Anyone else notice that Seraphim fire two pistols? Who cares, right? If they can still buy inferno pistols and hand flamers in the same quantities and they are cheaper, you might see:
- 5 Seraphim, 2xDual Inferno Pistols. (4 Strength 8, AP 1 Melta Shots? Thanks!)
- 5 Seraphim, 2x Dual Hand Flamers (4 S3, AP6 Templates, reroll wounds... Meh, not as great.)

Inferno pistols, at least in the WH book, are AP 2, NOT AP 1.

I am open to the possibility that part 2 of the WD Codex could make the sisters a viable and interesting army, but for now all I can judge is part 1. GW decided to split the codex up over two magazines, so blame them, not the people complaining, for judging half of the codex.

Even as it stands I can see a couple of ways to make viable armies out of the nonsense presented using the C:WH prices and without knowing what the wargear does, but that still leaves serious problems.

1) A sisters mob is a very dollar intesive army. Our basic trooper is about six bucks, that is as much as the newer, fancier FW Death Korps guard troopers. That is going to be a hard sell for getting new players to try this.

2) After spending all that money, it may or may not be invalidated by the "real" codex which may or may not be coming or any good. Ask my inquisitorial storm troopers, frateris militia, inquisitors or $50 death chair how I feel about that.

3) We are going to see the oposite of what the other new codexii did. Before you could count on Acts of Fait at a critical juncture, so taking units that sometimes relied on Acts of Faith was still a good idea. Now you not only have to make the faith roll, but you can never count on the number of faith points you have per turn. The old system took more book keeping, but in exchange you got reliability. Now, sure having rending HB is nice, but you can't count on it, so I better just take another excorcist instead. In an army that is already limited in options, this list will make it worse.

Now the wargear and cost may mitigate what we see here, but as presented I am seeing boring armies that a prepared enemy can beat face on. Power armor is great, but to make it worth it on points alone we would have to have some crazy cheap sisters or some crazy awesome wargear.

But hey, the Seraphim get two shots again and the bondage sisters are no longer lead by a dominatrix, so we got that at least.

It is not doom that I am chanting, instead I am calling out with a mighty, meh. Nothing about this list excites or inspires. Sure, a lot of people are saying, what did you expect from a white dwarf codex? Well, when we complained about the WD Dex, people said, no wait, it could be awesome. So really, we expected this. I was hoping the new dex would at least get us a finecast Cannoness or Seraphim (since plastics are too much to expect) but even that seems unlikely.

So it is not a roar of "The sky is falling!" that I will scream from the hill tops. No, it is just the sigh of "we told ya so" and the sound of dust gathering on my figures.

But would it have killed them to give the Immolator a flamestorm cannon?

AllistorPreist wrote:

But would it have killed them to give the Immolator a flamestorm cannon?

I too was hoping for something that will set Sister's fanaticism over flame based-weapons ahead of everyone else. The only thing unique the new Sisters have, which others don't, is potential quad Heavy Flamer Retributors with Divine Guidance.

AllistorPreist wrote:
But hey, the Seraphim get two shots again and the bondage sisters are no longer lead by a dominatrix, so we got that at least.

But would it have killed them to give the Immolator a flamestorm cannon?

Mistress of Penitence is still there I'm afraid

And I'd never thought of the Flamestorm cannon on Immolators. That would have been excellent.

pretre wrote:

Melissia wrote:

The problem is the new Acts of Faith suck.

Arguable. I haven't used them yet.

You dont have to be able to use them to see how weak the mechnics are, and the powers. If on turn 3-4, your go turn, you roll '1's for number of faith points, your hosed. Old rules, you had a set number YOU thought you need, ready and raring to go. Reroll to hit with bolters isnt as good as divine guidance.


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pretre wrote:
According to what you have seen so far. If they're 12 points a piece and can upgrade 1 out of every 3, then they aren't quite as inferior. You're going off on two factors when you don't see the whole picture. Maybe you're right and they are strictly inferior, but we won't know until the next WD is out.

No they are still inferior to their 22pt counterparts. The loss of I4 and the hit and run reiablity removal for starters is NOT a a replaced by 1 of 3 upgrades. I'll take the hit and run reliablity any day.


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pretre wrote:
I appreciate the depth of your experience, but I think you're being a bit premature as the whole codex isn't even out yet.

Question:

Do you have a sisters army? Because what i have found in this thread so far, is those that dont have them and dont play them seem to have unrealistic expectations from this WD list(and conversely, its universal sister players have a very dissapointed and negative opinion of the list).

@carmachu: infernos are ap1 in codex gk.
Also, I agree that hit and run was nice, but at 22 each before upgrades I never used them in a serious list. I'd love to see a middle ground between cost and rules for Seraphim.

Redbeard wrote:
Guard/Eldar/Nids (6+ is same as 5+ versus bolters)
Vs. T3 5+: No act: 26.66 re-rolling hits: 35.5 kills, divine guidance: 26.66 kills
Vs. T3 5+ in cover: No act: 13.33 re-rolling hits: 17.77 kills, divine guidance: 13.33 kills

Orks:
Vs. T4 6+: No Act: 20 kills re-rolling hits: 26.75 kills, divine guidance: 20 kills
Vs. T4 6+ in cover: No Act: 10 kills re-rolling hits: 13.37 kills, divine guidance: 10 kills


- Against Terminators and Marines in the open, sure, Divine Guidance is better. But against anything except marines, it got you no benefit at all. Re-rolling your hits will get you more results against everything - not one case above yields equal or less than not using an act, not true for divine guidance. Furthermore, re-rolling hits is more valuable against most xenos races, which should be of interest to fluff/campaign players. Even shooting Marines in cover, re-rolls to hits are more valuable than divine guidance.

Now your just being utterly rediculious. No one, no sister player I know EVER used divine guidance against orks or guard or eldar that had a 5+ save or worse.

But thats the point- folks USED diving guidance against terminators and marines, which was of COURSE better. That was the point of it. While more valuable against xenos, its not against xenos we NEEDED the help with.

The above of course, only factors one thing, bolters, Throw in 2-3 flamer templates, especially with DG and the equation looks alot more different on marines in cover.

Oh and I've had a sisters army (and played) since black book 3rd through codex chapter approved and into c:WH. Just because my opinion is to wait for the rest of the codex before reacting doesn't mean I've never played sisters.

When people mention Power Blobs, they are forgetting two major things:

1) Hidden Power weapons: Unless the 2nd part diverts greatly from every other codex, Battle Sisters will only be able to get one PW per squad (on the Sister Superior) without adding IC. Power Blobs can have a few hidden PWs, which allows them to win by attrition.

2) Stubborn: I think NO one actually believes that the Book of St. Lucius will be the same in the new codex. Without Stubborn, attrition wins will not work. We will be easily ran down.

I have played Sisters since Chapter approved codex. I play them as a power horde with the seraphim doing the heavy lifting. I know that mech was a superior way of playing them, but I liked the idea of a horde of sisters. The loss of DG and BoLS will make the using Sister Troops very difficult as they no longer can do enough damage nor survive the assault without being ran down.

But I am happy about some things:

1)Repentia: They are what they should have been the first time. Yay! I now have a counter attack unit. the IC priest worries me, but we can make it work if the are a reasonable price.
2) Dominions: Scout and twin-linked flamers is awesome. If the special weapons are reasonably priced, they now are useful.
3) Retributors: Rending Heavy Bolters now gives sister some min range (36") anti-transport. I just wished that they were not HS.
4) Frag and Kraks for everybody!

pretre wrote:@carmachu: infernos are ap1 in codex gk.
Also, I agree that hit and run was nice, but at 22 each before upgrades I never used them in a serious list. I'd love to see a middle ground between cost and rules for Seraphim.

Then you were missing out on alot. I always had one squad. They were great for holding things up, killing or softening units, and general mayhem.

Question: What are inferno pistols in the BA codex? I dont play them.


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pretre wrote:Oh and I've had a sisters army (and played) since black book 3rd through codex chapter approved and into c:WH. Just because my opinion is to wait for the rest of the codex before reacting doesn't mean I've never played sisters.

I had to ask. Because there are quite a few uninformed people in this thread, including ones that have said "faith is complicated in the old rules, glad they changed it., But I never played sisters." which is quite irratatiing.

Your taking power blobs waaaay out of context. No one said sisters had them. It was an example of a t3 i3 unit that could survive assault.

AdeptSister wrote:
3) Retributors: Rending Heavy Bolters now gives sister some min range (36") anti-transport. I just wished that they were not HS.

Maybe if they were elite... and you'll still have trouble popping transports with strength 5 heavy weapons...

There's no reason to run a retributor squad over an exorcist, in the current codex or the "new" one.

Ok. So can we agree that with the information we have now, a Battle Sister Squad will get beaten by every dedicated assault unit? Or just about any Marine unit?

My point is unless they brought back BoLS in some form, sisters will be getting run down ALOT.